The economy

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
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Reagan managed to convince all of the poverty line dummies in red states that getting their kneepads out for corporations and billionaires would TRiCkLe DoWN all kinds of benefits...utter bullshvt of course as we now know.






Dispelling the myth that trickle down doesn’t work.


Since 1980, consumption by our lowest class has increased by 160% adjusted for inflation.

Today’s poorest, people contributing the least to the advancement of our society, can consume 160% more than in 1980.

Yes, the standard of living for the lowest class of people in the US has improved since 1980, though the extent of improvement depends on the measure used. Official income-based poverty metrics show only modest gains, with slower wage growth and rising inequality tempering progress. However, consumption-based measures—which better reflect actual access to goods, services, and necessities—indicate substantial improvement, driven by factors like expanded government benefits, tax credits, cheaper imported goods, technological advancements, and economic growth.


Key Measures and Trends


  • Official Poverty Rate (Income-Based): This is the US Census Bureau’s primary metric, based on pre-tax cash income compared to thresholds set in the 1960s (adjusted only for inflation). In 1980, the rate was 13.0%. It fluctuated with economic cycles but trended slightly downward overall, reaching 10.6% in 2024 (35.9 million people). This represents a modest decline of about 2.4 percentage points over 44 years, but critics note it understates progress by ignoring non-cash benefits (e.g., food stamps, housing subsidies) and tax credits. 47 35 41 The rate has not improved dramatically because real wage growth for the bottom 20% (lowest quintile) has been slow: only about 6.5–17% cumulatively from 1979–2023, or roughly 0.1–0.4% annually before the pandemic-era spike. 18 21 19 Inequality has widened, with the 90/10 income ratio rising from 9.1 in 1980 to 12.6 in 2018, meaning top earners’ incomes grew much faster. 2
  • Supplemental Poverty Measure (SPM): Introduced by the Census Bureau in 2010, this broader metric accounts for non-cash benefits, taxes, and regional living costs. Recent SPM rates are higher than official ones (12.9% in 2024), but historical estimates (extended back by researchers) show a steeper decline. Using an “anchored” SPM (fixed 2012 threshold adjusted for inflation), poverty fell from about 19–20% in 1980 to 12.9% in 2024—a drop of roughly 30–35%. 58 47 53 This reflects the impact of expanded safety net programs like SNAP, EITC, and Medicaid, which lifted millions out of poverty. Without these, SPM poverty would be higher by 8–10 percentage points annually.
  • Consumption Poverty: This alternative measure, based on actual spending on essentials (food, housing, transportation), is a stronger indicator of living standards as it captures borrowing, savings, and benefit use. From 1980 to 2022, consumption poverty plummeted from 33.8% to 6.0%—an 82% relative decline. 0 49 12 For below-median households, consumption rose over 160% from 1960–2015 (adjusted for biases in price indices), with gains accelerating since 1980 due to cheaper goods and services. 26 Material deprivation (e.g., inability to afford basics) also fell from 13% in 1980 to 7.8% in 2013. 11

Factors Driving Improvement


  • Government Policies: The safety net has been the primary driver, not market incomes alone. Tax cuts, credits (e.g., EITC, Child Tax Credit), and programs like Social Security, SNAP, and housing aid reduced poverty by 40–50% more than pre-transfer measures suggest. 49 58 40 During the pandemic, stimulus and expanded credits kept consumption poverty stable despite income volatility.
  • Economic and Social Changes: Higher education levels, economic growth, and declining prices for consumer goods (e.g., electronics, clothing) boosted access to amenities. For instance, low-income households saw increases in car ownership (doubled since 1980) and home size (10% more bedrooms). 26 8 Life expectancy, health access, and education for the poor also improved.
  • Challenges and Disparities: Progress has been uneven. Racial gaps persist (e.g., higher poverty for Black and Hispanic Americans), and self-sufficiency (ability to earn enough without aid) remained flat at ~13% from 1980–2013. 11 40 Wage stagnation for the bottom 10–20% (e.g., 5% decline for low-wage workers 1979–2013) and rising costs in housing/healthcare offset some gains. 19 20 Inequality grew, with bottom 50% incomes stagnating while top 1% surged 300%+. 23 31

In summary, while income metrics show limited progress amid inequality, consumption and adjusted poverty measures substantiate meaningful gains in living standards for the poorest, largely thanks to policy interventions. This aligns with broader indicators like increased access to technology, healthcare, and education. 4 6 8 16
 
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UrHuckleberry

Heisman
Jun 2, 2024
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We all want both, but that not usually how economics work.

But if you want high growth and low inflation, you clearly would vote republican.

And by all means Trump has growth higher than Biden AND his record high inflation.
I am not seeing the tariff related growth you are. I am saying I’d like lower inflation and not paying $1k+ extra per year.

History disagrees with your assertion on job creation under the different party leaderships.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
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I am not seeing the tariff related growth you are. I am saying I’d like lower inflation and not paying $1k+ extra per year.

History disagrees with your assertion on job creation under the different party leaderships.
Obama grew the economy at an average rate of approximately 2%. He also famously said “Trump would need a magic wand to get to 4%”

Not only is Trump getting 4% (4.4% last quarter), he is doing it while hammering inflation. Inflation running 2.7%, according to BLS, and trending lower. Truflation has real time inflation less than 1%.

Official CPI report comes out in 2 days.
 
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fatpiggy

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Aug 18, 2002
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I am not seeing the tariff related growth you are. I am saying I’d like lower inflation and not paying $1k+ extra per year.

History disagrees with your assertion on job creation under the different party leaderships.
And I don’t really expect you to see the tariff related growth. You wouldn’t admit to seeing it if it slapped you in the face because you would have to give republicans credit.

If you were honest you would see that GDP grew at 4.4% last quarter and that was after the tariffs were implemented.
 
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UrHuckleberry

Heisman
Jun 2, 2024
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Obama grew the economy at an average rate of approximately 2%. He also famously said “Trump would need a magic wand to get to 4%”

Not only is Trump getting 4%, he is doing it while hammering inflation. Inflation running g 2.7%, according to BLS) and trending lower. Truflation has real time inflation less than 1%.
Yes, I’m aware he’s president during the AI boom. Obama had to take over out of the crash. Biden had inflation trending down and passed it over at 2.8%. There are indicators all over as the economy is complex and you can choose the good ones and paint Trump as a savior or you can choose the negative ones and paint him as a road block.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
24,579
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Yes, I’m aware he’s president during the AI boom. Obama had to take over out of the crash. Biden had inflation trending down and passed it over at 2.8%. There are indicators all over as the economy is complex and you can choose the good ones and paint Trump as a savior or you can choose the negative ones and paint him as a road block.
Yeah, and I can use data too.

Of course the economy is complex. That is why people like Kamala Harris should be no where close to the levers of power.
 
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fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
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Yes, I’m aware he’s president during the AI boom. Obama had to take over out of the crash. Biden had inflation trending down and passed it over at 2.8%. There are indicators all over as the economy is complex and you can choose the good ones and paint Trump as a savior or you can choose the negative ones and paint him as a road block.
Maybe Trumps polices enabled the AI boom?

Democrats are already saying they want to regulate it.

Perhaps Trumps tariffs slowed down the Chinese and allowed the US to maintain a competitive advantage?

My point remains, democrats wouldn't give Trump praise if they were all millionaires tomorrow with no inflation. You think people like tigress, yoshi, dpic, boone, huckleberry would ever give Trump credit? lol, no. He could solve world peace, world hunger, and all the other problems and they would still be complaining.
 
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tigres88

All-American
Aug 7, 2022
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Maybe Trumps polices enabled the AI boom?

Democrats are already saying they want to regulate it.

Perhaps Trumps tariffs slowed down the Chinese and allowed the US to maintain a competitive advantage?

My point remains, democrats wouldn't give Trump praise if they were all millionaires tomorrow with no inflation. You think people like tigress, yoshi, dpic, boone, huckleberry would ever give Trump credit? lol, no. He could solve world peace, world hunger, and all the other problems and they would still be complaining.
Actually tag us you coward- and if you're going to throw me in with the homies, you should probably know that I absolutely try and give credit where credit is due, and an equal opportunity offender/defender on both sides.

You wouldn't know because you've had me blocked like a lil baby bi t ch for a year because Elon did a Nazi salute and it hurt your lil feelings
 
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UrHuckleberry

Heisman
Jun 2, 2024
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Maybe Trumps polices enabled the AI boom?

Democrats are already saying they want to regulate it.

Perhaps Trumps tariffs slowed down the Chinese and allowed the US to maintain a competitive advantage?

My point remains, democrats wouldn't give Trump praise if they were all millionaires tomorrow with no inflation. You think people like tigress, yoshi, dpic, boone, huckleberry would ever give Trump credit? lol, no. He could solve world peace, world hunger, and all the other problems and they would still be complaining.
I’ve given Trump credit many times before. That I don’t shovel down everything he’s selling doesn’t mean I haven’t given credit where I agreed with him.
 

dpic73

Heisman
Jul 27, 2005
30,432
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Maybe Trumps polices enabled the AI boom?

Democrats are already saying they want to regulate it.

Perhaps Trumps tariffs slowed down the Chinese and allowed the US to maintain a competitive advantage?

My point remains, democrats wouldn't give Trump praise if they were all millionaires tomorrow with no inflation. You think people like tigress, yoshi, dpic, boone, huckleberry would ever give Trump credit? lol, no. He could solve world peace, world hunger, and all the other problems and they would still be complaining.
1770749940442.png
 

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
44,797
33,922
113


I talked to a senior U.S. steel company executive this weekend, and he said business was BOOMING. He told me there were two reasons for this: 1) the economy is finally recovering from the Biden recession, and 2) Trump’s tariffs have eliminated the price advantage foreign producers had due to illegal subsidies from foreign governments.

The tariffs didn’t make prices go up. Instead, they eliminated the ability of foreign producers to sell below cost. That one change completely reset and leveled the playing field. And the result is American steel companies are back to crushing it!
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
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Inflation has leveled out just under 3% not crushed, and if the fed keeps cutting this is the bottom.

If only a couple presidents hadn't dumped money we didn't have on the economy..... If only a certain president didn't oversee the shutdown of the US/world economy creating easily foreseeable disruptions in the supply chain....

If only we weren't still dumping money on stimulus projects to stimulate and save an economy from COVID, 4 years after the event.....

If only politicians didn't pander and then lie....

If only citizens voted for competence rather than binary party labels.
Inflation has been crushed under this administration. Real time inflation running under 1% right now according to Truflation. Well under 3% according to BLS also. 2.7% was the last reading (well under 3%) and the next reading is this Friday. I expect it to come in below expectations again.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
24,579
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2.5X more jobs created than predicted by economists.

Is this market about to explode?

1) The largest companies just announced the larges R&D spend coming by orders of magnitude. I believe its META said they normally spend $50B and now they are going to spend $200B. Same with all the major AI players
2) New Fed Govenor will lower rates. You know that was a pre-requisite to get the job.
3) The job market remains strong
4) Tariff income is helping with the deficit.
 

PawPride

Heisman
Nov 28, 2004
53,139
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2.5X more jobs created than predicted by economists.

Is this market about to explode?

1) The largest companies just announced the larges R&D spend coming by orders of magnitude. I believe its META said they normally spend $50B and now they are going to spend $200B. Same with all the major AI players
2) New Fed Govenor will lower rates. You know that was a pre-requisite to get the job.
3) The job market remains strong
4) Tariff income is helping with the deficit.
It's amazing what raising taxes can do to help with the deficit.
 

Dadar

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2003
4,528
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The Congressional Budget Office on Wednesday warned yet again that the US is on an unsustainable fiscal path, jacking up its estimate of deficits for the coming decade by $1.4 trillion thanks in part to President Donald Trump’s 2025 tax law and immigration policies
 
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fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
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The Congressional Budget Office on Wednesday warned yet again that the US is on an unsustainable fiscal path, jacking up its estimate of deficits for the coming decade by $1.4 trillion thanks in part to President Donald Trump’s 2025 tax law and immigration policies
It's unfair to attribute the deficit to one party or another. They both spend like drunken sailors. This has been proven time and time again.
 
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tboonpickens

Heisman
Sep 19, 2001
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The Congressional Budget Office on Wednesday warned yet again that the US is on an unsustainable fiscal path, jacking up its estimate of deficits for the coming decade by $1.4 trillion thanks in part to President Donald Trump’s 2025 tax law and immigration policies
yeah but the important part is Lutnick will have more discretionary income to buy a bigger yacht for the next time he takes his children and nannies (plural) for dinner at Epstein Island. eyes on the prize.

Reagan convinced all of these dummies that the millionaire/billionaire class is looking out for the working man's interests.
 

Dadar

All-Conference
Dec 21, 2003
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Donald Trump's businesses filed for bankruptcy protection six times between 1991 and 2009, primarily involving his over-leveraged Atlantic City casinos and hotels (Taj Mahal, Plaza, Trump Castle) and related hotel/casino resort entities, though he never filed for personal bankruptcy himself. These filings were corporate restructurings (Chapter 11) allowing the businesses to continue operating while reorganizing debts, separating them from Trump's personal assets.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
24,579
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I was surprised to hear that federal employment is down 365,000 people. And, the labor participation rate is higher.


I still agree with you that the average American may not be feeling all of the benefits. Keep doing what they are doing and stay on this path and eventually all these macro numbers will hit the citizens wallet. 🤞
 
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baltimorened

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
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I still agree with you that the average American may not be feeling all of the benefits. Keep doing what they are doing and stay on this path and eventually all these macro numbers will hit the citizens wallet. 🤞

Trump, Bessent et al are hanging a lot on the upcoming tax refund numbers
 

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
44,797
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Stephen A. Smith warns his audience not to “hate” him as he lays out why Trump “WASN’T LYING” about the stock market.

“Don’t hate the messenger. Just listen.”

“Barron’s, highly reputable when it comes to evaluating our market. This is what they wrote.”

“The S&P 500 has gained 13.3% and notched 42 record closes. The Nasdaq has gained 16.9% and notched 36 record closes. The Dow Jones Industrial Average has gained 11.5% and notched 23 record closes.”

“Ladies and gentlemen, that means when it comes to the stock market and your 401ks, Donald Trump wasn’t lying… according to Barron’s.”
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
24,579
23,256
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To @baltimorened 's point. Still a lot of work to do, but we are certainly heading in the right direction.




Job growth - Check
Inflation declining - Check
Rate Cut Coming - Check
Border Secure - Check
Crime Down - Check
Real Wage growth - Check
Gas Prices Low - Check
Stock Market High - Check

Trump has this thing headed in the right direction. He seems to have much more of a command of the economy than the Biden admin did. The Biden admin seemed clueless, and I attribute that to poor leadership. I just think Biden was too far past his prime to have any kind of handle on the matter. This allowed his admin to do as they pleased and it was just a total mess.

The one negative mark on the Trump admin is the death of the protesters during ICE enforcement. ICE did not do anything wrong, but no one wants to see anyone die even if they are libs. 🤣

 
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