The collapse is inexplicable/unexplainable

[zappaa]

The worst I’ve seen in my watching sports lifetime.
There are so many reasons why this could never happen going all the way back to Eugene still being here.
Pike’s teams always play D, always score in transition, always get scoring from multiple players, always rebound, always beat you up physically, always made you work your *** off to get a good shot, we never quit, we are tough.
These traits were earned over 2 years and the first 9 games this year including a referee debacle and a classic thriller against a top 10 team.
And your telling me that’s all gone?
That can’t happen, it isn’t even plausible.
WTF, I’m dumbfounded

 

[Scangg]

Complete loss of identity. We used to lose games when we shot really poorly but we could always count on energy hustle toughness D rebounding... hard to stomach the effort out there right now sans Paul

 

[zappaa]

Players don’t quit fellas.
Our individuals are playing hard.
We are seeing the phenomenon of a collective collapse, where everyone is playing hard, but as a team it looks like we quit.
It’s not explainable, we’ve got a good team.

 

[zappaa]

Complete loss of identity. We used to lose games when we shot really poorly but we could always count on energy hustle toughness D rebounding... hard to stomach the effort out there right now sans Paul

I’m telling Scragg.
You could ask every kid on the team to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they played hard and the answer would be yes.
We are lost on D, we don’t know where each other is anymore. We’re equally lost on offense, it’s making us look like we’re not trying.

 

[rutger80]

The team has not been the same since the end of the OSU game. 15 point lead and downhill from there....it's almost like they were the bully that got punched in the mouth and was never the same.
A psychologist is needed for these guys.

 

[kcg88]

Complete loss of identity. We used to lose games when we shot really poorly but we could always count on energy hustle toughness D rebounding... hard to stomach the effort out there right now sans Paul

Yup. PSU beat us at our own supposed game.

 

[bac2therac]

they need a coffee enema in the worst way

 

[zappaa]

The team has not been the same since the end of the OSU game. 15 point lead and downhill from there....it's almost like they were the bully that got punched in the mouth and was never the same.
A psychologist is needed for these guys.

We got punched in the mouth and stomach last year, and every game we came out swinging and kept our identity even when we lost.
We rolled over for no one.

 

[kcg88]

My best shot at explaining it is that when guys were making shots they didn't try nearly as hard on defense and on the glass and now they can't flip that switch on as the shots don't fall.

Remember that Illinois scored 1.21 points per possession against us and Purdue scored 1.19, and those were games we won. The defense has been mediocre at best all season and the difference has been the offense.

 

[goru7]

Players don’t quit fellas.
Our individuals are playing hard.
We are seeing the phenomenon of a collective collapse, where everyone is playing hard, but as a team it looks like we quit.
It’s not explainable, we’ve got a good team.

It is almost unbelievable. But that defense we played for most of the night but especially that first half was nothing I have ever recognized from a Pike team since he has been here. They cannot stay in front of anyone, cannot fight over a screen , play no team defense . It is mind boggling . Do not know who hijacked these kids? Losing confidence causes some of this but this is where coaching is important to get them to play harder. It doesn’t seem like they are. They played 7 minutes of a 40 minute game tonight. Should never happen but it did. Frustration everywhere coaches, players and fans. Dreadful

 

[rucoe89]

Need a CViv intervention to snap this team out of their funk.

 

[zappaa]

It is almost unbelievable. But that defense we played for most of the night but especially that first half was nothing I have ever recognized from a Pike team since he has been here. They cannot stay in front of anyone, cannot fight over a screen , play no team defense . It is mind boggling . Do not know who hijacked these kids? Losing confidence causes some of this but this is where coaching is important to get them to play harder. It doesn’t seem like they are. They played 7 minutes of a 40 minute game tonight. Should never happen but it did. Frustration everywhere coaches, players and fans. Dreadful

I should have also used the word you did unrecognizable.
I’ve been following this team up close, like one row behind the bench for two years.
This defense were playing is unrecognizable comparatively

 

[goru7]

I should have also used the word you did unrecognizable.
I’ve been following this team up close, like one row behind the bench for two years.
This defense were playing is unrecognizable comparatively

Just saw this stat in the AP recap of the game . Until we decided to play , Penn State was shooting 67%. Wow. Unheard of . Rutgers defense ? Who are these guys. We only played 7 minutes of a 40 minute game tonight. Outrageous. In those 7 minutes , Penn State went from shooting 67% and ended at 49%. Just by us playing defense for 7 minutes. Cannot believe the players are not digging in. Their psyche is bruised is the only way it can be explained. They need a sports psychologist in the worse way, might help our foul shooting. Even Paul missed the first 2 tonite.

 

[RUSeaGirtMA]

Best investment of money and time this program could make right now is a sports psychologist/psychiatrist. Not kidding.

 

[RUsojo]

Best investment of money and time this program could make right now is a sports psychologist/psychiatrist. Not kidding.

Another top 100 recruit instead please

 

[Caliknight]

Players don’t quit fellas.
Our individuals are playing hard.
We are seeing the phenomenon of a collective collapse, where everyone is playing hard, but as a team it looks like we quit.
It’s not explainable, we’ve got a good team.

They aren’t playing as hard as they were. Geo gets beat constantly. They got destroyed on the glass again. A pure hustle stat. The shooting is horrid, compounded by the fact that they can’t shoot free throws. Combine that with some chemistry issues clearly having arisen and you have a team spiraling down the drain.

 

[Shell21]

Until that lost run I saw a lot of dog . Mathis , geo , Johnson and Ron jogging up the court . Ron let a guy make a layup with no challenge . The speed they were going the last 10 minutes or so is everyone’s top speed ; You could see the difference . It begs the question after a week off and a 4 game losing streak , how are these guys not showing max effort on both ends? This is not the same team we’ve come to love energy wise right now

 

[brookdale-soda]

My best shot at explaining it is that when guys were making shots they didn't try nearly as hard on defense and on the glass and now they can't flip that switch on as the shots don't fall.

Remember that Illinois scored 1.21 points per possession against us and Purdue scored 1.19, and those were games we won. The defense has been mediocre at best all season and the difference has been the offense.

I think you nailed it. Defense has been consistently subpar this year along with rebounding.

Offense is the difference but I think to fix the offense, you focus on a stifling defense and rebounding which will lead to easy shots. When they start falling, the rest of the shots will fall. iMO, there's a certain aggression were lacking on both sides of the floor. Histotically we've shot badly before.. Were not forcing any teams to play ugly basketball w us. Thats how we get out of this. This team plays like it can just trade points

 

[rufeelinit]

I think this year's team had a different identity from the start. This not the same type of physical team we had the past couple of years. To put it simplistically there is no Akwasi or Eugene on this team. Cliff and Duke are not Shaq Doorsan either. Which of our wings do you think play physical and seem to prosper doing the required dirty work inside and on the boards? Maybe Paul since he realize other parts of his game are limited?

Some of the defensive deficiencies are not new. Geo and Harper struggling to stay with their guys playing man to man defense certainly is not. Montez and Myles struggling to finish around the rim is also not new but they seem to have taken a step back rather than better. An then there is the foul shooting. I think I heard last night we are the second worst FT team in the nation!

The difference is that earlier in the year we were making an abnormally high level of shots. We have been in a prolonged and collective slump and seem to have made little in the way of adjustments to get ourselves out of it. We have too many guys with the same inconsistencies, strengths and limitations. Their is talent there but at this point I believe there is a need for a significant change in attitude and desire before this gets better.

 

[zappaa]

I think you nailed it. Defense has been consistently subpar this year along with rebounding.

Offense is the difference but I think to fix the offense, you focus on a stifling defense and rebounding which will lead to easy shots. When they start falling, the rest of the shots will fall. iMO, there's a certain aggression were lacking on both sides of the floor. Histotically we've shot badly before.. Were not forcing any teams to play ugly basketball w us. Thats how we get out of this. This team plays like it can just trade points

For the past few years our identity has been God awful shooting for prolonged periods, yet still play great defense.
How many times did we hold teams and not score ourselves?
You guys are absolutely correct, from day one this year our defense has been sub-par.... that should have been a huge warning signal and red flag for Pike!
But because our scoring was so shared, and so prolific, the number one question from the press was where did all that great shooting come from?
The question for Pike should have been and always needs to be before we can return to our earned identity is “your team plays stifling, tough defense every night coach, sometimes the offense isn’t there and we lose., but the Defense is always a constant”
Nothing is going to change I fear until that happens.
The loss of ONE player should not have changed this,....perhaps Shaq was a hell of slot better defensively than we thought, that man was strong.
How did our team leaders allow this to happen

 

[bethlehemfan]

For the past few years our identity has been God awful shooting for prolonged periods, yet still play great defense.
How many times did we hold teams and not score ourselves?
You guys are absolutely correct, from day one this year our defense has been sub-par.... that should have been a huge warning signal and red flag for Pike!
But because our scoring was so shared, and so prolific, the number one question from the press was where did all that great shooting come from?
The question for Pike should have been and needs to before we can return to our earned identity is “your team plays stifling, tough defense every night coach, sometimes the offense isn’t there and we lose., but the Defense is always a constant”
Nothing is going to change I fear until that happens.
The loss of ONE player should not have changed this,....perhaps Shaq was a hell of slot better defensively than we thought, that man was strong.
How did our team leaders allow this to happen

Last year we were 17th in defensive efficiency in the nation. We are sitting above 200th right now.

 

[RUReady76]

The worst I’ve seen in my watching sports lifetime.
There are so many reasons why this could never happen going all the way back to Eugene still being here.
Pike’s teams always play D, always score in transition, always get scoring from multiple players, always rebound, always beat you up physically, always made you work your *** off to get a good shot, we never quit, we are tough.
These traits were earned over 2 years and the first 9 games this year including a referee debacle and a classic thriller against a top 10 team.
And your telling me that’s all gone?
That can’t happen, it isn’t even plausible.
WTF, I’m dumbfounded

Bad player karma on the court has become obvious. Where's the leadership?

 

[zappaa]

Last year we were 17th in defensive efficiency in the nation. We are sitting above 200th right now.

We are in the bottom half of our league, how is that for identity.
We’ve inexplicably transformed into opposing coaches saying “they’re soft, take it to the hoop and to the glass against them”
That’s our identity.
Pike and team leaders equally responsible.

 

[richthedentist]

I think this year's team had a different identity from the start. This not the same type of physical team we had the past couple of years. To put it simplistically there is no Akwasi or Eugene on this team. Cliff and Duke are not Shaq Doorsan either. Which of our wings do you think play physical and seem to prosper doing the required dirty work inside and on the boards? Maybe Paul since he realize other parts of his game are limited?

Some of the defensive deficiencies are not new. Geo and Harper struggling to stay with their guys playing man to man defense certainly is not. Montez and Myles struggling to finish around the rim is also not new but they seem to have taken a step back rather than better. An then there is the foul shooting. I think I heard last night we are the second worst FT team in the nation!

The difference is that earlier in the year we were making an abnormally high level of shots. We have been in a prolonged and collective slump and seem to have made little in the way of adjustments to get ourselves out of it. We have too many guys with the same inconsistencies, strengths and limitations. Their is talent there but at this point I believe there is a need for a significant change in attitude and desire before this gets better.

Yeah Paul gets in there sometimes but he is still a guard we need someone with some size in there to get rebounds and we don't have that

 

[bethlehemfan]

We are in the bottom half of our league, how is that for identity.
We’ve inexplicably transformed into opposing coaches saying “they’re soft, take it to the hoop and to the glass against them”
That’s our identity

Defense is effort. It’s not there for whatever reason.

 

[zappaa]

Defense is effort. It’s not there for whatever reason.

Hasn’t been since game one.
It had to be addressed and remedied.
Any yes I’m guilty of thinking we were just that good and this is the new RU, we’re just friggen dynamic.
Pike should have known better, he let this fester imo

 

[bethlehemfan]

Hasn’t been since game one.
It had to be addressed and remedied.
Any yes I’m guilty of thinking we were just that good and this is the new RU, we’re just friggen dynamic.
Pike should have known better, he let this fester imo

I agree. I was worried early when we were just bombing away but was kind of lulled into thinking we were going to be ok by outscoring people this year or that it was just temporary. It’s sad. I can’t even watch.

 

[RU677381]

I told my wife during the game that the team has no affect. She responded that Pikiell has no affect either. There are times when coaches need to keep an even keel: this is not one of them.

I am so disappointed that after a slump of six games the coaching staff has absolutely no answers. They have tried nothing new. And both Geo and Paul have regressed this year. Why?

 

[newell138]

The simple answer is Rutgers gonna Rutgers

 

[RU#1fan]

It all seemed to collapse in the 2nd Half against OSU.
No leadership or focus since that game.
We all had such high hopes early in the season.

 

[zappaa]

It all seemed to collapse in the 2nd Half against OSU.
No leadership or focus since that game.
We all had such high hopes early in the season.

The collapse happened in game one of the year when we played lousy defense and continued to do so even when we were 7-0.
We were a time bomb ready to explode only in the wrong direction

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Great OP topic.. my take is that the rankings got to them. We all thought that the way they played and the things they were saying that they wouldn't be the guys to take their rank as an excuse that they need only SHOW UP to win.

It still doesn't look like that's what happened.. then I see all the forced alley-oops attempts in half-court offense and think.. why did they think that would work.. that that would be their best shot? PM, who seemed like a heady coach-on-the-court type player.. he was forcing things too. It is like they want to go back to those circus act victories of the early season that were so impressive without realizing that Big Ten games are different.

I think the FT shooting shows how they cracked under the pressure of a high ranking and being the hunted.

oddly.. this swoon may actually help in the long run as teams and the media begin to ignore us... I hope.

 

[Scarlet Blind_rivals]

To borrow a baseball analogy "Chicks dig the long ball"
Maybe this team thought winning 14-10, 17-13, would work all year but ignored that pitching is needed, defense is needed, the little things in box scores are needed, listening to the manager and coaches are needed. The signs were there first 2 games, 86-63, 96-75, or games like Hofstra, Syracuse, and Maryland, they could fall back on their defense and rebounding experiences, just flip the switch when needed every time without continuous work on it. Don't tell me its losing a grad transfer, 3rd leading scorer, 9.8pts, 4.8reb or 2 yr Juco, 9th leading, 3.6pts,2.5reb, that made all the difference. Talk to Maryland or Michigan St. about losing their top 2 scorers and how it affected them. We had 7 of 8 scorers from a 20-11 team returning to our program adding a top 50 player to it. It is not experience or talent. Leadership maybe, slump maybe, chemistry maybe, trust maybe. Pike is 100% coach speak.

Illinois shot FG 54% and 9-15 from 3 should have been a giant waving Red Flag going forward about defense despite the win. Everything hit them with a ton of bricks and a punch in the mouth during the OSU collapse destroyed this teams psyche and trust in each other, first 24 minutes RU 48-32, last 16 minutes 20-48, giving up 3 pts a minute for 16 straight minutes. They recovered against a good Purdue team, without Cliff or RHJ, but those same bad habits/trust issues happened in the Iowa game and have not recovered since. For everything bad thing they clean up, something else rears its ugly head. This team has enough experience that this shouldn't have happened but it still did. Not sure how or if you can fix it during a season in the best conference in college basketball. There are no Nebraskas anytime soon but Pike should schedule a OOC game in between to trade confidence back for being "tired", and the defense is overthinking and no longer naturally reacting last 5 losses. We have only out rebounded Wisconsin in this 5 game losing stretch.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

It really brings home how much this team fed off the crowd. Perhaps early in the season the team thought the paper cutouts were actually fans.

 

[phlop87]

I know from friends that we got the score down to 4-5 points a few times near the end. I shut the game off after a minute or two into the 2nd half. I couldn't believe Pike rolled out the same starters, expecting to see something different. I said in the game thread I would have started the 2nd half with Cliff, Young Caleb, Paul and Montez (hopeing he plays inspired D) or Palmquist. Let it roll with these guys to see if we could play with intensity.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Zap, I know everyone is different and baseball and basketball have different stresses in the body, but when you had an injury, how long after a Doctor said you were 100 percent did you feel and trust in your own head that you were 100 percent?

Rutgers Basketball
2020 NCAA Basketball Tournament

 

[goru7]

Hasn’t been since game one.
It had to be addressed and remedied.
Any yes I’m guilty of thinking we were just that good and this is the new RU, we’re just friggen dynamic.
Pike should have known better, he let this fester

Yeah Pike has blame on his hands for not getting them ready to play , especially defense. But this is clearly on the players . We waited forever to have a senior laden upperclassmen team and with Geo and Jacob as seniors and Ron, Montez, Myles and Caleb as juniors , who have been through the Big 10 wars, we seemed to have great leadership. Wrong ! As absolute failure by all of them. Not one of them has stepped up and said enough with this crap, we are not losing this game and gotten in everyone’s face. Some will say they are calm guys and not the fiery type. I say ********. The fact the leaders on this team know what it takes to win, to turn things around, and have not demanded it from their teammates , is such a failure of leadership. I would argue that it is almost impossible to do what we did to start the year, coming off of the way last year ended , and now lost 6 of 7 in this manner. Lost their identity , defense and rebounding , and it appears lost effort which is inexcusable. Players have failed. It is now on Pike and Hobbs and Knight and Hayn to get them playing like their playing time depends on it to get this thing turned around. They had the gall to play only 7 minutes of a 40 minute game and atrocious defense almost the whole night. That should never happen again. It is on the coaches now because the leadership of the players could not turn it around.

 

[zappaa]

Zap, I know everyone is different and baseball and basketball have different stresses in the body, but when you had an injury, how long after a Doctor said you were 100 percent did you feel and trust in your own head that you were 100 percent?

Rutgers Basketball
2020 NCAA Basketball Tournament

Let’s start with the premise, every team has injuries and personal problems that have to be dealt with.
Every one is different in regard to injuries, I’ve seen players improve by not trying to do to much and staying within themselves.
There’s no stock answer.
The fact remains we haven’t remotely played the defense I’ve see over the last two years, and that started in game one.
The identity switched from stifling D to dynamic O.... how’s that working out now.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Zap,

respectfully.

you are blaming Pike.....what is he doing wrong? What could he be doing differently?

should he change rotations? he has
Should he sub out all 5? He has
Should he sit our best players for stretches? He has
dis He change defenses? Yes
Did he go full court press? Yes

 

[RUPete]

I can't help but feel that something has changed dramatically within the program that we're not aware of- whether it's chemistry between some players or newly assigned responsibilities on the coaching staff that are not working, I just don't know. This slide and the way it is happening is just plain odd.