The accrediting agency is really who needs to slap the hell out of them and bring them back to reality in a big way. You get folks with degrees that are suddenly worthless and change will happen in a hurry.
Some UNC Ribeye for you....
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As much as I'd like to believe UNC gets hammered, I just don't think they will. It is my belief that they will be able to show just enough that other non-athlete students were able to take the same courses thus eliminating the impermissible benefit argument. So if as the OP says, the NCAA chooses to not pursue this as an academic issue, then I don't see where UNC gets handed severe penalties. I'm still going with a slap on the wrist.
Now they'll be just like KU with 3 real titles and 2 fake ones.
Absolutely reprehensible:
Mary Willingham: Enough Already
I again find myself on the receiving end of a hateful campaign of vilification and defamation. This time my enemies have been given unc emails for the sole purpose of harassment, and have made public matters that are entirely private; these matters have literally nothing to do with the issues on which I have been outspoken for the past several years.
Over those same several years I have heard many insults. I have been called:
Racist, elitist, ugly, (these first three are my favorites), asexual, greedy, plagiarist, ABC’er, stupid, liar, disgruntled, crazy, media/attention seeker, cheater, sloppy researcher, incompetent, irresponsible, menopausal, exaggerator, unqualified, impostor, and puppet. In addition, people have attacked my husband, kids and our family businesses. How much truth was in any of these labels? Many people feel free to sit in judgment of me and my life. But do they even know what they’re judging?
Whistleblowing is not for the meek. Just last week, Buck Sanders of Inside carolina said that I, along with Jay Smith and the N&O, should be drenched in gasoline and lit on fire in a parking lot. Nice? It is not the truth telling that ruins lives–it’s the emotional trauma inflicted by those who don’t want to hear the truth. That trauma has been steady and severe. I’ve personally been discredited every which way to Sunday. It has become tiresome; it was always irrelevant.
Meanwhile, our athletes are still not getting what we promise them – a real education. The underlying issue of race, which has been swimming just below the surface, is now emerging into the daylight. And that’s where our focus needs to be–not on the many decoys that my enemies have been distracting us with for years. My personal life, which sane people recognize should be off limits anyway, has no place in the discussion about college athletes and reform. I know that I won’t be discussing it at all.
http://paperclassinc.com/mary-willingham-enough-already/
Mary Willingham: Enough Already
I again find myself on the receiving end of a hateful campaign of vilification and defamation. This time my enemies have been given unc emails for the sole purpose of harassment, and have made public matters that are entirely private; these matters have literally nothing to do with the issues on which I have been outspoken for the past several years.
Over those same several years I have heard many insults. I have been called:
Racist, elitist, ugly, (these first three are my favorites), asexual, greedy, plagiarist, ABC’er, stupid, liar, disgruntled, crazy, media/attention seeker, cheater, sloppy researcher, incompetent, irresponsible, menopausal, exaggerator, unqualified, impostor, and puppet. In addition, people have attacked my husband, kids and our family businesses. How much truth was in any of these labels? Many people feel free to sit in judgment of me and my life. But do they even know what they’re judging?
Whistleblowing is not for the meek. Just last week, Buck Sanders of Inside carolina said that I, along with Jay Smith and the N&O, should be drenched in gasoline and lit on fire in a parking lot. Nice? It is not the truth telling that ruins lives–it’s the emotional trauma inflicted by those who don’t want to hear the truth. That trauma has been steady and severe. I’ve personally been discredited every which way to Sunday. It has become tiresome; it was always irrelevant.
Meanwhile, our athletes are still not getting what we promise them – a real education. The underlying issue of race, which has been swimming just below the surface, is now emerging into the daylight. And that’s where our focus needs to be–not on the many decoys that my enemies have been distracting us with for years. My personal life, which sane people recognize should be off limits anyway, has no place in the discussion about college athletes and reform. I know that I won’t be discussing it at all.
http://paperclassinc.com/mary-willingham-enough-already/
Those classes are not part of the impermissible extra benefits. So, showing other non-athletes took them is inconsequential. The NCAA is not using those classes in their NOA, rather the IEB are for advisers (not in the athletic department) giving preferential treatment to athletes (signing them up for classes before regular students, placing them in classes, etc.). I don't see how UNC can argue against this, it is cut and dry. However, they can point out that this type of "preferential treatment" from advisers goes on everywhere -- it has to in order for players to be able to take classes and practice, without having a university structure their course-schedules around athletics. This is part of the reason why I don't think they'll have to vacate any games for the IEB.
So, long story short, AFAM classes are not part of the IEB and thus it doesn't matter that athletes took less of them than non-athletes.
No other way to put this Bobby boy, you are either the dumbest tar hole fan I have ever heard of. Or you are blind as a bat and fail to see this is way more serious than you make it. Everything about this case has death penalty written all over it, I won't be satisfied with anything less. By the way I think you may be all of the above.
Looks like Bobbi Pickle Perv is still on about the NCAA being limited to the NOA. They aren't, at least where the institution is concerned. I think he's clinging to any shred of hope he can find even though everyone but him knows he's full of crap. That's what happens when you support a cheating scum bucket institution like that den of filth he supports. Birds of a feather I suppose.
The NOA does list the AFAM classes as part of the impermissible benefits. Allegation #1 says from the summer of 2002 through the fall semester of 2011 UNC had courses listed as lecture courses but taught as independent studies. Those classes had little, if any attendance requirements, minimal to no faculty instruction, lax paper writing standards and artificially high grades. In some instances, athletics academic counselors within ASPSA made special arrangements and used these courses to help ensure the eligibility of academically at-risk student athletes.
That reference was a statement made by Sanders when he was interviewing Bethel for his new so-called documentary. Since then, Bethel has been on a public crusade to slander Willingham and Smith. This scandal has taken an ugly turn and Bethel is in the middle of it all. The guy should be called out for his personal attacks. I wish I lived in NC because I would definitely get involved. This kind of stuff should never happen.
Bethel's family should be ashamed of his behavior. I wonder if his parents raised him to be the (--------) that he is.
Can you tell how angry this makes me?
Good Lord - nothing is going to happen to UNC. The NCAA isn't going to allow it.
Meanwhile, their men's basketball team is looking like a strong championship contender, their football team could end up in the playoffs if they beat Clemson this weekend, and for those who think at least their recruiting is suffering, they just signed a 3-man class of good, solid 4-star players perfect for a program that prefers multi-year guys, and they are probably going to get Rawle Alkins as their OAD talent to break the drought there - so theyre doing just fine. They may even reel in Azubuike.
If UNC does this well after years of unrelenting bad publicity, I would hate to see how much the program could prosper once the clouds are lifted.
Meanwhile, their men's basketball team is looking like a strong championship contender, their football team could end up in the playoffs if they beat Clemson this weekend, and for those who think at least their recruiting is suffering, they just signed a 3-man class of good, solid 4-star players perfect for a program that prefers multi-year guys, and they are probably going to get Rawle Alkins as their OAD talent to break the drought there - so theyre doing just fine. They may even reel in Azubuike.
If UNC does this well after years of unrelenting bad publicity, I would hate to see how much the program could prosper once the clouds are lifted.
You and me both, buddy. Also, saw this on our board:
Cheating Blue Ram@CheatingBlueRam
Interesting conversation tonight with a colleague that serves as the FAR to the NCAA for another university.
Cheating Blue Ram @CheatingBlueRam
Resulting from the release of documents and emails not previously seen, the NCAA is taking a second and third look at outstanding issues.
I hope that is true. The more we read, the more we realize that UNC is complete cesspool.
Is it just me or does anyone else have difficulty watching UNC play a game?They just go along like nothing is happening and they don't have a care in the world.It is not enough to see them lose a game now.Even the f'n football team is getting media attention.The NCAA gets to be a bigger joke on a daily basis.
Bradley Bethel is out begging for money again, I see. He is going to show his "documentary" on January 8 in Chapel Hill. But, he still needs more money. I wonder who long the sheep at Chapel Hill are going to follow this scam artist?
UNC will let the entire thing crash and burn to protect the banners.....NOTHING will get in the way of the banners...
Better be careful I got a ban from the mighty IC last week for telling one of them he was to dumb to breathe. lol
What makes me sick is that they could win another title this year. It is like a convict let out of prison and they commit more crimes.
PackPride has dug up some mushrooms to go with the ribeye......word is now, that there may be some sort of financial connection between UNC and the Inside Carolina board, which would violate a lot of NCAA rules regarding recruitment.
http://www.scout.com/college/north-...wants-mary-w-burned-alive-pg7/177854194?s=178
This is extremely serious -- if the web site is indeed proved to be connected to the athletic department, then every contact between an IC correspondent and a prep prospect -- and there are tons of such contacts -- UNC would (again) be in violation of NCAA rules:
NCAA Rules Bylaw 11.3.2.4 Noninstitutional Publications/Web Sites that Report on Athletics Program
Athletics department staff members shall not endorse or be associated with (either orally or in writing) any non-institutional publication (or website) dedicated primarily to reporting on an institution’s
athletics activities, and shall not write for such publications.
NCAA Rules 13.10.2.1
Athletics department staff members shall not evaluate or rate a prospect for news media, scouting services or recruiting services prior to the prospect’s signed acceptance of the institution’s written
offer of admission as a student and/or written tender of financial assistance to be provided upon the prospect’s enrollment. Members of the athletic department staff (including coaches, current student-athletes, student assistants, etc.) are not permitted to be part of a “pipeline” of information for private enterprise internet websites.
http://www.scout.com/college/north-...wants-mary-w-burned-alive-pg7/177854194?s=178
This is extremely serious -- if the web site is indeed proved to be connected to the athletic department, then every contact between an IC correspondent and a prep prospect -- and there are tons of such contacts -- UNC would (again) be in violation of NCAA rules:
NCAA Rules Bylaw 11.3.2.4 Noninstitutional Publications/Web Sites that Report on Athletics Program
Athletics department staff members shall not endorse or be associated with (either orally or in writing) any non-institutional publication (or website) dedicated primarily to reporting on an institution’s
athletics activities, and shall not write for such publications.
NCAA Rules 13.10.2.1
Athletics department staff members shall not evaluate or rate a prospect for news media, scouting services or recruiting services prior to the prospect’s signed acceptance of the institution’s written
offer of admission as a student and/or written tender of financial assistance to be provided upon the prospect’s enrollment. Members of the athletic department staff (including coaches, current student-athletes, student assistants, etc.) are not permitted to be part of a “pipeline” of information for private enterprise internet websites.
It might be be easier to find a NCAA rule that UNC hasn't violated than try to find all the ones they have
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...hawaii-mens-basketball-on-probation/77762356/
Hawaii loses two scholarships and gets a postseason ban because a former assistant men's basketball coach altered and submitted a fraudulent financial document on behalf of a recruit. Not a Level 1 violation, mind you. Just some context to consider when the NCAA rules on the biggest academic scandal in the history of college athletics in the coming months.
Hawaii loses two scholarships and gets a postseason ban because a former assistant men's basketball coach altered and submitted a fraudulent financial document on behalf of a recruit. Not a Level 1 violation, mind you. Just some context to consider when the NCAA rules on the biggest academic scandal in the history of college athletics in the coming months.
You are an idiot if you think no show classes AREN'T impermissible benefits.
And to think the NCAA allows them a chance to win a title this year, that should make us even more disgusted.
And to think the NCAA allows them a chance to win a title this year, that should make us even more disgusted.
Burning down the school may be the only option. Ha
Though the corruption may have poisoned the soil too by now.
Though the corruption may have poisoned the soil too by now.
Classes clearly used to keep players eligible...can call it whatever you want, but they will have to vacate games those players participated in.
Well, after all the penalties are published, if UNC doesn't have wins taken away using ineligible player after player (the transcripts will show these facts) then every school should march on the NCAA headquarters (we know the ACC schools, led by Swofford, won't speak up) and demand a legitimate punishment.
If I'm the media, after the penalties (and there will be penalties that can't be avoided), I'm going to get exlusive quotes from Boeheim and Larry Brown to see if the punishment was just.
Slimy Roy can then go ahead and adjust his HOF credentials and make sure UNC takes all those fake records off the books.
If I'm the media, after the penalties (and there will be penalties that can't be avoided), I'm going to get exlusive quotes from Boeheim and Larry Brown to see if the punishment was just.
Slimy Roy can then go ahead and adjust his HOF credentials and make sure UNC takes all those fake records off the books.
Nothing to see here folks, just an email from an athletic academic counselor to the UNC head Compliance Director ensuring a player on the brink is able to get an "Infamous paper course" in oder to stay eligible.
No biggie, right Bobby?
Bradley Bethel is CONTINUING to claim the classes are legit and the academic counselors didn't know about the wrongdoing. They all thought Crowder was a TA![roll]
You keep claiming that the NCAA will rule in the coming months but what is the basis for that belief?
I already addressed this on the national board but as far as I can tell, there's a number of steps still to come before a ruling can take place.
First the NCAA needs to come out with their amended Notice of Allegations (NOA), then UNC finally gets to submit their response, and then the case needs to be scheduled to appear before the Committee on Infractions.
What is taking the NCAA so long to produce the amended NOA? I don't know, but it might have something to do with the continued incriminating evidence that keeps oozing out of Chapel Hill as part of their data dumps.
The way things are going I wouldn't expect a ruling anytime soon. I doubt we'll see anything before very late in 2016.
Oh, things will definitely happen to UNC... but they will be carefully managed. You'll see women's basketball get eviscerated, football will get hit hard, and there will be sound and fury and all sorts of peripheral stabs at Men's Basketball.
But the whole entire game here is banners. They will be hit hard enough for all their lemmings on ESPN and everywhere else to cry all day every day for weeks about the severity of the punishment and UNC will appeal gracefully trying to appear as the victims laughably, but they will be overcome with joy at achieving their ultimate end-game of no banners coming down.
To me, that is the ultimate test of the NCAA here. If no banners come down then UNC got off and accomplished what they spent millions in accomplishing. Keeping their ill-gotten gains in the form of their precious men's basketball banners.
If one banner comes down then that is a tepid compromise and be looked at as somewhat fair.
If two banners come down then the NCAA sacked up and was intent on making UNC face substantive long lasting just penalties for their actions.
If three banners come down the NCAA was pissed off (and rightfully so) at UNC's stunts and have made it perfectly clear this can never and will never be an acceptable way to run a university. The NCAA will finally have proven their legitimacy.
Now, all of that said, I am betting the ranch that no banners come down and UNC's pathetic stunts pay off and they go right back to business as usual. Which I am convinced they already are doing. They will never stop cheating. It is ingrained in what they are essentially as a culture.
But the whole entire game here is banners. They will be hit hard enough for all their lemmings on ESPN and everywhere else to cry all day every day for weeks about the severity of the punishment and UNC will appeal gracefully trying to appear as the victims laughably, but they will be overcome with joy at achieving their ultimate end-game of no banners coming down.
To me, that is the ultimate test of the NCAA here. If no banners come down then UNC got off and accomplished what they spent millions in accomplishing. Keeping their ill-gotten gains in the form of their precious men's basketball banners.
If one banner comes down then that is a tepid compromise and be looked at as somewhat fair.
If two banners come down then the NCAA sacked up and was intent on making UNC face substantive long lasting just penalties for their actions.
If three banners come down the NCAA was pissed off (and rightfully so) at UNC's stunts and have made it perfectly clear this can never and will never be an acceptable way to run a university. The NCAA will finally have proven their legitimacy.
Now, all of that said, I am betting the ranch that no banners come down and UNC's pathetic stunts pay off and they go right back to business as usual. Which I am convinced they already are doing. They will never stop cheating. It is ingrained in what they are essentially as a culture.
UNC is permanently off the list of great programs and coaches now to anyone with integrity. Smyth is a complete fraud and UNC is an even bigger fraud.
Any UNC fan who tries to talk about the greatness of their program is going to be set straight by me and, I suspect, a great deal of others. They are tarnished forever.
Interesting post from PackPride:
Re: UNC-CHEAT Scandal - When is judgment day?
st8dukegrad87
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Posted: Today 4:10 PM
From what I am hearing (and it is limited as the NCAA has really gone silent over the month of December) the negotiations are with NCAA enforcement. It would be very unusual for UNC-CH to negotiate with the COI. Just because UNC-CH is negotiating does not mean the penalties will be light. As an example, UNC-CH has virtually no chance to negotiate on vacated victories as the rules are crystal clear that if an ineligible player participates that victory is gone.
UNC-CH is mainly negotiating the number of years of post season bans in MBB and football as well as how many scholarships will be lost and how many years they will be on probation as well as monetary fines
Re: UNC-CHEAT Scandal - When is judgment day?
st8dukegrad87
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Posted: Today 4:10 PM
From what I am hearing (and it is limited as the NCAA has really gone silent over the month of December) the negotiations are with NCAA enforcement. It would be very unusual for UNC-CH to negotiate with the COI. Just because UNC-CH is negotiating does not mean the penalties will be light. As an example, UNC-CH has virtually no chance to negotiate on vacated victories as the rules are crystal clear that if an ineligible player participates that victory is gone.
UNC-CH is mainly negotiating the number of years of post season bans in MBB and football as well as how many scholarships will be lost and how many years they will be on probation as well as monetary fines
So based on ineligible players taking away wins, there has to be action taken to take away banners; those 2 cannot be separated.
This will have to be the hardest hitting penalty ever given a NCAA program; worse than Baylor, worse than SMU, and worse than USC football. If it doesn't happen, programs will model their efforts like UNC and continue to exploit weaknesses that the NCAA has allowed to fester.
Oh, but keep the Helms banners; we're okay with you keeping the previous 2 banners (Helms '24, NCAA '57).
Now lets start abiding by the rules, shall we?
This will have to be the hardest hitting penalty ever given a NCAA program; worse than Baylor, worse than SMU, and worse than USC football. If it doesn't happen, programs will model their efforts like UNC and continue to exploit weaknesses that the NCAA has allowed to fester.
Oh, but keep the Helms banners; we're okay with you keeping the previous 2 banners (Helms '24, NCAA '57).
Now lets start abiding by the rules, shall we?
http://college.usatoday.com/2015/12/29/univ-of-n-c-email-shows-athletes-passed/
CHAPEL HILL, N.C. – A clearer picture of the academic scandal at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill’s athletic program — in which the university allegedly failed to comply with several key operating principals — is emerging.
An e-mail was found by WFMY in which a TA wrote to the former associate director of the academic support program. The TA typed:
“I want to let you know that I passed all your football players. Most of them actually passed on their own. (name withheld) and (name withheld) were the only two that had averages below 60% but I gave them both a D.”
The TA also wrote that two players had “suspiciously similar exams” and “may have also been passing a calculator back and forth during the exam, which is certainly not allowed.”
This document is one page of millions of records the school plans on releasing from the investigation. An attorney has to comb through each page first to make sure student’s private information isn’t released. So the school is making pages public in groups. UNC released the latest group of 200,000 pages right before Christmas break. 2 Wants To Know has been reviewing them since.
The documents also show some positives about the football program. One e-mail reads, “Beth and her staff did an outstanding, herculean job working so professionally, diligently, and thoughtfully with these students. I dropped into study hall a couple of nights to conference with the students, and I really liked what I saw.”
The director of media relations for UNC writes about the records to WFMY:
“The University places a high priority on transparency and this is part of a long series of records releases that began on Oct. 21, 2015. We expect the releases to span over the next five to seven months. It is important to note that we have implemented more than 70 reforms and initiatives since 2011 – when the irregularities ended – to provide greater administrative oversight and additional support for students. The University continues to monitor the effectiveness of those reforms and, wherever needed, put additional safeguards in place. Please monitor the Carolina Commitment website to track our progress with these initiatives, which we’ve put in place to promote academic integrity.”
CHAPEL HILL, N.C. – A clearer picture of the academic scandal at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill’s athletic program — in which the university allegedly failed to comply with several key operating principals — is emerging.
An e-mail was found by WFMY in which a TA wrote to the former associate director of the academic support program. The TA typed:
“I want to let you know that I passed all your football players. Most of them actually passed on their own. (name withheld) and (name withheld) were the only two that had averages below 60% but I gave them both a D.”
The TA also wrote that two players had “suspiciously similar exams” and “may have also been passing a calculator back and forth during the exam, which is certainly not allowed.”
This document is one page of millions of records the school plans on releasing from the investigation. An attorney has to comb through each page first to make sure student’s private information isn’t released. So the school is making pages public in groups. UNC released the latest group of 200,000 pages right before Christmas break. 2 Wants To Know has been reviewing them since.
The documents also show some positives about the football program. One e-mail reads, “Beth and her staff did an outstanding, herculean job working so professionally, diligently, and thoughtfully with these students. I dropped into study hall a couple of nights to conference with the students, and I really liked what I saw.”
The director of media relations for UNC writes about the records to WFMY:
“The University places a high priority on transparency and this is part of a long series of records releases that began on Oct. 21, 2015. We expect the releases to span over the next five to seven months. It is important to note that we have implemented more than 70 reforms and initiatives since 2011 – when the irregularities ended – to provide greater administrative oversight and additional support for students. The University continues to monitor the effectiveness of those reforms and, wherever needed, put additional safeguards in place. Please monitor the Carolina Commitment website to track our progress with these initiatives, which we’ve put in place to promote academic integrity.”
But, But, but, Bradley/bobby said it wasn't an athletic scandal. I bet that TA passed every student who cheated and still failed to pass! [roll]