For reference purposes - 2018 rosters
Michigan 122
Wisc 104
OSU 99
Nebraska 1995 had 179
Solich in 1999 had 193
Michigan 122
Wisc 104
OSU 99
Nebraska 1995 had 179
Solich in 1999 had 193
Roster size
- Thread starter jlb321_rivals110621
- Start date
And to think just a couple years ago the board wisdom was the quality players that didn't receive a scholarship would go elsewhere because tuition is prohibitive.
So none of the top players in Nebraska went elsewhere? They all either walked on at Nebraska or on scholarship?
I know every Nebraska kid has outworked Adrian Martinez, right?. If it wasn’t for how hard Masker worked, Martinez would be just going through the motions.
The notion that only Nebraska kids work hard or that every Nebraska kid works hard is ridiculous.
Every Iowa kid works harder than everyone else at Iowa and every Kansas kid works harder at KSU or KU....it asinine.
Kids from Nebraska may have more skin in the game on Day 1 because it is their state, but that isn’t the definition of hard work. That is pride.
As far as looking up to players...players RESPECT players who work hard, do what they are supposed to do and put team first, regardless of where they are from, but that isn’t the same as looking up to them.
The notion that only Nebraska kids work hard or that every Nebraska kid works hard is ridiculous.
Every Iowa kid works harder than everyone else at Iowa and every Kansas kid works harder at KSU or KU....it asinine.
Kids from Nebraska may have more skin in the game on Day 1 because it is their state, but that isn’t the definition of hard work. That is pride.
As far as looking up to players...players RESPECT players who work hard, do what they are supposed to do and put team first, regardless of where they are from, but that isn’t the same as looking up to them.
Frost was saying we don't have the space for current roster size. Where did TO and Solich put all these players. Did we really down size facilities
Pride in what you do tends to lead to working harder. Doesn't matter if it is a job, football, whatever. If Nebraska kids have more pride for the program than kids from other states. They will probably put in that extra effort, and time. Not saying it means they will make it anywhere near the field but it may help push other kids with more talent to work that much harder too.
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Have you seen Rudy?
I’m just saying, it took the scholarship guys quite awhile to look up to the runt. That’s all.
No. Pride is pride. Players either work hard or they don’t. If a dude is a team player, he is going to be a team player. If a dude is a hard worker he is going to be a hard worker.
I get the theory, I just don’t think that a dude from Valentine, with a DII skill set is going to force anyone else to work hard, if the work hard trait isn’t already in those other guys.
That was made abundantly clear the past 3 years.
I'm guessing you'll hear Martinez heap praise on in-state walkons within the first 5 days of camp saying they're setting the tone.
Who will oversee the lower units?. Osborne had a JV team that played games against JC teams. NCAA dose not allow the extra coaches or a freshman team. The JV team was also a major factor in why Oz was able to develop so much depth and talent. This will be the toughest hurdle in managing the huge roster numbers.
people just work hard for zero reason other than they work hard? there's nothing behind it? nothing driving them? just have it or don't?
okay.
Yes. It is something that is inside you. You can have pride in yourself and pride in your team without being from Nebraska. Shocking to hear I know, but Nebraskans aren’t the only people with pride and work ethic.
You can see it from a young age. Go to a practice field for any sport, there are 100%ers and there are players that rely on only talent. There are 100%ers that have talent and 100%ers who don’t. There are kids with average talent who don’t work hard.
You have kids who do their homework every night and get good grades and there are kids you have to stand over to do their homework and get good grades.
Agree, at some point pure talent is probably going to win out over the DII Neb kid who works his *** off. The point is some of these Neb kid have to put in that extra work just to compete with these more talented guys. It created a domino effect. A few see these kid from Neb putting in the time, then a few more join in, and more, and more. Pretty soon those top talent guys are putting in the extra time too because they are now the only ones not doing above and beyond.
Yes, I see what you are saying. Guys not from Neb can very well be busting their asses off just as hard or harder.
Midway though his career, the freshman team was mothballed, wasn’t it, due to NCAA and a lack of JV teams to play? So for the last 10 years or so Osborne had to make it work without a freshman team on the side...
I think I counted 120 for Alabama. Maybe we let Frost worry about roster size instead of automatically thinking a big roster is bad. I can think of 5 million reasons he might know better than anyone on this board.
I'm not sure if a bigger roster is better or worse, but I think I'll go ahead and let our coach decide what is best, and let the results speak for themselves.
I'm not sure if a bigger roster is better or worse, but I think I'll go ahead and let our coach decide what is best, and let the results speak for themselves.
You guys are trying too hard,really.
Ever own a business?
Know someone who has?
It's not work,they're doing exactly what they want to do,and the better they do it, the closer the dream comes to be true.
But go ahead, those stories of earning blackshirts, or playing in one game is just fake news.
Ever own a business?
Know someone who has?
It's not work,they're doing exactly what they want to do,and the better they do it, the closer the dream comes to be true.
But go ahead, those stories of earning blackshirts, or playing in one game is just fake news.
I’m all for the walk ons. The more the better. I just didn’t get that scholarship players look up to walk ons.You guys are trying too hard,really.
Ever own a business?
Know someone who has?
It's not work,they're doing exactly what they want to do,and the better they do it, the closer the dream comes to be true.
But go ahead, those stories of earning blackshirts, or playing in one game is just fake news.
If someone is trying too hard, I’d say that right there qualifies.
What I see you describing is the culture the coach creates. There is a high school down here in Houston called Katy. Katy high school has a tremendous football program, the players have huge pride in their school and what that school represents. They have won 7 or 8 state titles.
But they aren’t that way simply because they’re from Katy. The coach has created a culture there that doesn’t allow selfish play, that doesn’t allow “prime donnas”, that is very much built on hard work. They don’t always have a ton of elite talent but they will out work everyone else.
So, you dont know anyone who's started their own business?
In that case, thats qualified
People who do, the hours they put in, they end up making five bucks an hour,even though they pay themselves,and those they hire actually make more per hour, but dont put in near the hours.
Tell me when this starts sounding like a scholly player vs a walkon, and who spends more time on the field.
Now, working right next to that person who's happy and going after it, is that limited to respect, or does it include admiration?
Whatever. Sorry to break it to you, but there are a lot of scholarship players who do not look up to walk ons. That’s a huge reach to say scholarship players look up to walk ons and leave it at that.
Do some scholarship players look up to walk ons? Undoubtedly. But to give a blanket statement that scholarship players look up to walk ons is so far from the truth, it gives me a headache.
People who start their own business? How does that apply here? We are talking about walk ons and you are taking it to business owners... my head hurts...
yea I'm sure Mario has Martinez in the QB room learning his lines.
yes, kids on scholarship from elsewhere work hard. the reasons why are just much more nuanced than the do/don't argument you put forth. one of those reasons, a quite large one in my opinion, is pride & realizing a dream, not just of playing college football but of playing for Nebraska and Nebraska alone, that in-state walkons have worked for every single day of their lives. it's different.
they're not the most talented, but ask Bo or Riley or Callahan how the team works and plays without them.
Did I make it a blanket statement?
No
Trying to hard to change my words,yes.
Did I say how many? No
Did I say the older, more mature a player that can find that admiration? Yes.
You want to add words ,that by itself is trying too hard.
You see where you say “Guys on scholly”? I guess you didn’t say all guys, but you absolutely didn’t say “some” guys either.
Generally, when you make a statement like “Guys on scholly”, it can be interpreted as a blanket statement. I don’t see you saying mature guys on scholly either in this statement, as you claim.
That’s what I took issue with. There are lots of scholarship players that don’t look up to walk ons.
That is all.
yes, there are. we've seen many many of these entitled scholarship players represent our state abhorrently in the past 20 years. they're an embarrassment.
if scholarship players today are treating walkons like second rate citizens as you claim, I hope there are plenty of fistfights during camp.
Frost said he wanted a bigger roster so I would imagine he has planned for how to manage the size. If a kid wants to walk on and do the work, I have no problem with that. If the process yields an extra kid or two for the depth, so much the better. But Tuco is correct. This will largely consist of kids that are on the team for a year or two, then realize it's probably better to concentrate on their degree program instead of FB.
Yes, there are scholarship players that don’t look up to walk ons? Thats my argument...
Since when did not looking up to a walk on player equate to treating them like second rate citizens? I sure as hell never said that... I’m saying not all scholarship players idolize walk ons. And you’re telling me I’m wrong?
Do tell...
since when did looking up to them equate to idolizing?
company line or not, I can find you quotes from hundreds of scholarship players saying they look up to walkons.
can you present an iota of proof to support your argument?
It’s called common sense. Respect is way different than idolizing. Way different. If you want to say scholarship players respect walk ons, great. No problem with that. Idolize? Adore? Yeah, not buying that.
And don’t be ridiculous about seeking proof. Name one scholarship player that’s gonna crap on a walk on. You won’t find it.
Why is it so hard to accept that human nature dictates that not everyone looks up to everyone else? Scholarship players transfer all the time because they were passed by a walk on. That shows mad props though, right?
And for the record, I never said scholarship players don’t look up to walk ons. How can you not look up to an Andy Janovich?
My argument remains that not all scholarship players look up to walk ons. Believe it or not, even walk ons can fold and quit. You can respect their attempt, but I’m still having trouble saying scholarship players, in general, look up to walk ons.
And what has been posted in this thread hasn’t convinced me otherwise.
EDIT: after rereading my post, I realize it sounds different than I intended... in general, scholarship players often respect walk ons. I can buy that. I’m just saying it isn’t a guaranteed fact that they do.
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'idolize', 'adore' are your words, not mine. I said walk ons bust their asses day in and day out, like they've had to their entire lives because they're not the most naturally gifted, in a way most scholarship athletes don't need to. and for reasons that are different than most scholarship players. the result is a stronger unit.
if we're going to talk common sense and human nature, if you see a scrub every single day bust his *** just to be on the scout team with no chance of playing while coaches use him as an example of how to do things the right way, wouldn't that cause you to change your behavior? we are, after all, a praise-seeking species.
as for proof, isn't that what settles arguments? if it's ridiculous to even look for supporting proof, what's that say about your argument?
bring Coach Frost your tired your poor your huddled masses yearning to don the Red 'N', he will lift his lamp beside national championship trophies!
GBR
Theres also observations on things people havnt considered, such as scholly players actually looking up to walkons.
Case in point, Mr Jackson.
But there are others, and some dont see or think of these things.
So, I was pointing it out, not trying to expand upon it, other than the fact of the importance it played on TO's teams, as he's said many times.
Reducing the numbers reduces all the things previously mentioned, besides what TO thought was an essential piece of the pie.
I agree with much of this, and I am for the walk ons. I already said in a previous post, the more the better.
Fine. You want proof that not all scholarship players look up to walk ons? What about the scholarship player who loses his spot to a walk on and leaves?
Like I said, mad props, huh? Quit trying to shove the narrative that all scholarship players look up to walk ons. 100%? I’m not buying it.
I don’t know how else to say it. Prove it to me that every scholarship player looks up to the walk ons. You can’t.
So I guess we call it a stalemate.
As this thread has evolved into a discussion of talent vs “hard work”, 100%er, work ethic, or whatever you call it, I’m adding a thought I have had related to how talent is evaluated as part of the recruiting process. My feeling is that work ethic is a talent. As someone said above, it is something inside you. Now how much is nature vs nurture, I don’t know. I think the hope is that some of it is environmental and can be learned as part of a culture.
The narrow definition of talent is part of the reason why I think recruiting rankings need to be more holistic in nature. In my opinion, attributes like mental acuity and cognitive abilities, vision, reaction time, balance, spatial awareness, will power, determination, desire, fortitude, even characteristics like personality assessments and emotional and psychological profiles should be included in a player analysis, as they are talents that can be related to football performance. You read things from analysts like “he has good vision”, “he is a high motor guy”, “has a nose for the football”, “has good instincts”, “good decision maker”, “good balance”, “hard-worker”, etc. But how do they measure and quantify these attributes and how do they do they uniformly evaluate them? I feel like a more holistic approach is needed to evaluate the recruits in their totality. To play football at an elite level in high school, a player most likely has abilities in most of these areas in addition to his physical gifts and coincidentally they are reflected in their star rankings. But that is not always the case. A player may be so physically gifted that his physical gifts allow him to succeed at the high school level even with deficiencies in some of these other areas. Conversely, there are many players who are tremendously gifted in some of these other areas such as intelligence, vision, decision-making, spatial awareness, etc and are able to perform above the level that their physical talents alone would dictate.
I think everyone already knows this and understands it, my real point is that I think Nebraska has the resources to do something about it. They have the Nebraska Athletic Performance Lab (NAPL) and the Center for Brain, Biology and Behavior (CB3) at their disposal. It seems to me that they could use these resources to determine what talents, attributes and abilities are necessary to play football at a high level. Once they can identify the necessary attributes (physical, mental, emotional), they could possibly develop ways to measure and quantify these attributes. Similar to a Sparq score or a performance index, these attribute scores could be weighted and combined into an individual composite score. If Nebraska’s coaches were armed with a scoring matrix that allowed them to test and evaluate potential recruits in a more holistic manner, that would give them a huge advantage in identifying “hidden” talent/players but also could help them avoid “busts”. I think this would allow them to have a more manageable roster size, without having to bring in so many walk-ons hoping that a handful will pan out.
BTW, I would think a guy like this would motivate anyone, including scholarship guys.
The narrow definition of talent is part of the reason why I think recruiting rankings need to be more holistic in nature. In my opinion, attributes like mental acuity and cognitive abilities, vision, reaction time, balance, spatial awareness, will power, determination, desire, fortitude, even characteristics like personality assessments and emotional and psychological profiles should be included in a player analysis, as they are talents that can be related to football performance. You read things from analysts like “he has good vision”, “he is a high motor guy”, “has a nose for the football”, “has good instincts”, “good decision maker”, “good balance”, “hard-worker”, etc. But how do they measure and quantify these attributes and how do they do they uniformly evaluate them? I feel like a more holistic approach is needed to evaluate the recruits in their totality. To play football at an elite level in high school, a player most likely has abilities in most of these areas in addition to his physical gifts and coincidentally they are reflected in their star rankings. But that is not always the case. A player may be so physically gifted that his physical gifts allow him to succeed at the high school level even with deficiencies in some of these other areas. Conversely, there are many players who are tremendously gifted in some of these other areas such as intelligence, vision, decision-making, spatial awareness, etc and are able to perform above the level that their physical talents alone would dictate.
I think everyone already knows this and understands it, my real point is that I think Nebraska has the resources to do something about it. They have the Nebraska Athletic Performance Lab (NAPL) and the Center for Brain, Biology and Behavior (CB3) at their disposal. It seems to me that they could use these resources to determine what talents, attributes and abilities are necessary to play football at a high level. Once they can identify the necessary attributes (physical, mental, emotional), they could possibly develop ways to measure and quantify these attributes. Similar to a Sparq score or a performance index, these attribute scores could be weighted and combined into an individual composite score. If Nebraska’s coaches were armed with a scoring matrix that allowed them to test and evaluate potential recruits in a more holistic manner, that would give them a huge advantage in identifying “hidden” talent/players but also could help them avoid “busts”. I think this would allow them to have a more manageable roster size, without having to bring in so many walk-ons hoping that a handful will pan out.
BTW, I would think a guy like this would motivate anyone, including scholarship guys.
Heres some history
https://hailvarsity.com/s/2778/toms-time-walk-ons-helped-the-huskers-handle-scholarship-reductions
No ones saying they all do this or do that, no team does this 'all' youre conjuring up.
It's simply viewed as the Nebraska way,an essential part of the culture.
I agree that scholarship players can look up to walk ons. I disagree that all scholarship players look up to walk ons. Your initial post led me to believe you were saying all scholarship players. I shared my disagreement.
That is all.
I’ve been around for all of Tom’s time. I don’t need to be educated.
For the last time, I am for the walk on program. All N.
my burden of proof is 100%? I'd say beyond a reasonable doubt has been accomplished.
there are, of course, entitled scholarship players who choose to swim in the warm current. to those, I say good riddance. they have no place at Nebraska.
You are confusing respect with looking up to and geography with coach’s culture. Imho