Player departures

[kyjeff1]

Yeah, that's a lot of words and all in the OP, but the reason kids leave either way is because of money, friends or family. They either make the first and rightfully leave, or get pressured by the other two....in order to make the first. Some players I miss when they go, and some I won't. I won't miss Knox for example. The next pass he makes on a fast break at UK will be his first. That's a me first guy, not a team guy. Hell, I can defend that. When you know one guy will take on to five, the other four teammates can be left ungauarded. Thays either on him or Cal, who knows.

Sometimes it's more than basketball skills that's a want to see stay another year. Not the same you will say, but my kid played her whole life, 4 years of D1 ball, and even internationally, for the USA; and I saw all kinds of quitters through those years. First sign of adversity, BOOM, they quit or transfer, which is almost the same thing. We've had our share at UK lately. If you leave for the pros, that's one thing, but if you leave for another reason, that's a problem. It may be a team problem, a coach problem, or a kid problrm; selecting a kid without any sticktuitiveness.

Many kids today are just natural born quitters, they will quit everything in life. Kids who leave at any sign of discomfort. But at some point, you need to either find guys who stay for the team, or for themselves. We need more men, mentally and not physically. It's a culture, and it needs to be created here, amongst the players and the fans. That seems to be lacking here, with the team and the fans. Look At all the posts dogging a freshman for poor play, when good lord, they are freshmen. They should be judged more on effort, and not only on results as a freshman. Yet, if they don't get resilts, we are done with them. And if they aren't strong enough to handle that, they become quitters. Which breeds more quitters. Which puts more pressure on OAD players, who are going to leave regardless. It's not the best culture for winning folks, and we all bear some blame in one way or another. Take away an ALL world player in Anthony Davis, and we may not have a title at all, while many "so called" lesser teams have them.

LOL, you crushed Knox, a freshman, for being selfish, you called him "a me first guy", because he doesn't give the ball up on the break, but then, in the bottom of your novel, you told us that it's ridiculous to judge a freshman on results, we should be judging them on their effort.

 

[kyjeff1]

Vanderbilt awful on offense? Only struggles I saw from him were when he was getting limited playing time and every tip in would go in and out, sometimes it'd be 3-4 tip ins would rim out on one possession and was having terrible luck at first. I think he clearly proved in the last 5 games (where he finally got starter minute instead of limited) that he more than proved to be a force in all aspects of the game. Some mocks had him as our highest draft prospect before the season in the top 10 before his injury. This kid is a straight up monster and had he not missed so much time and played the season beginning to end I think most here who watched him could tell he probably would've been by far our best player without missing so much time. I really hope he returns, if not then what a disappointment we didn't get to witness his game come full circle. He's a star in the making if he can get over his case of glass feet.

He proved to easily be by far our best defender as he was an absolutely force on defense with the energy hustle and timing he brought incase yall weren't paying attention to the clinic he put in on that end seemingly forcing multiple deflections turned to steals multiple times every game and no one could score on him in the post it seemed. And to me he looked like the best rebounder in the country hands down. To those who couldn't tell that he just needed time to get in a rhythm on offense to find himself then idk what to say but he's a very versatile force on offense from what I saw, if he returns healthy no doubt in my mind he'll be one of the If not the best player in the country next season. I've heard people say such as biancardi that had he not missed so much time he would've been a top 5 recruit also. Had the talent of one just missed a lot of time.

I'm kinda surprised people still underrate him and his value when healthy, just sucks we couldn't get him healthy. If he returns my hopes for next season improve dramatically. But with sga knox and hami likely gone that doesn't bother me, vando is the one I think might return and if he doesn't we will still be fine but man it'd be huge if he returned. Like huge. And if 4 contributors leave that will hardly be a mass exodus we are still looking at 9-10 5 stars on next years team if 4 leave and Montgomery commits (which I think happens if vando leaves, would rather have vando though Montgomery is a beast and we would be fine either way).

I'm not sure where this came from or what you want to accomplish with this post.
Bottom line, as much as we are in awe of Vanderbilt, he sucked offensively. Doesn't matter why, that's irrelevant, the truth is the truth. He shot the ball like he had never played the game before, kind of just flipped the ball up at the rim, but that's okay, he'll figure it out.
I don't think anyone is or was trashing Jarred, he's a hell of an athlete and a badass defender and rebounder.
I fully expect him to come back, he lost most of this season due to ankle and foot problems, no NBA team is going to pay first round money for a guy that has foot and ankle issues until they know he can survive a full season. Plus, they aren't paying that kind of money for a guy that can't shoot either. I mean he REALLY can't shoot right now.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I get that people are upset over that awful loss and the fact we blew the easiest path the final four that we will ever have.

Much of this frustration is now being pointed to this “mass exodus” that has yet to occur.

So many untruths and exaggeration is being spread around.

We do not lose every freshman to the draft and we do not lose every sophomore as a transfer.


But let’s look at both in historical context and see how this team matches with previous departures:


1. We have never lost a freshman that wasn’t a 1st Round pick.

As of today that is Knox and SGA.

I have been on record stating that SGA is not a natural PG or even a true SG. I believe he was exposed last game and will not be a lottery pick. There are a handful of PGs with his size outside of Young and Sexton that he will be competing with who are all true PGs and many shot well over 40% from the 3.

But the kid has played very well and we will soon see if the NBA really likes his game or they believe his tool set is simply custom made for the college game.

There is a huge risk for kids to enter without being a 1st Rounder. Everything from the lack of guaranteed money to less patience and effort from the team than a 1st Rounder would get and much easier to cast off if a player takes too long to develop.


Hami is a RS freshman who has been through the workouts and may have a leg up as to what needs to be done to get a sniff at the first round.

It is reasonable to suggest that his stock has dropped tremendously this season. He has great potential to be a beast next season.

Which is a two- headed sword as NBA people know this as well and he could very well be talked into taking a 2nd Round guaranteed contract.


Vanderbilt showed great rebounding and passing skills, he also displayed an offensive game that was simply awful.

Please stop with the Dennis Rodman comparison as he averaged 25pts and 18 rebounds his senior season in college.

People suggest he may go because of his injuries... the NBA is well aware of those injuries too...

Could a team take a flyer in the 2nd on JV? Possibly, but you would think any contract would be incentive ridden based upon actually playing time... He may face this his entire career if he doesn’t play a full season of college ball.

Keep this in mind as well...

Vanderbilt wasn’t as highly touted as a recruit or an NBA Draft prospect coming out of high school. He was the No. 12 overall player in the 2017 class, according to the 247Sports composite rankings, but — even before his latest injury, the second to his left foot in the past two years — Givony never projected him as a first-round, one-and-done pick.

JV’s handlers/family are the wildcard with his decision making.


PJ, Green nor Richards are any boards nor are they being discussed as potential entries. I have no doubt all will test the waters and no one should be worried about that.


2. UK transfers consist of players being recruited over.

Wiltjer already faced with Poythress watched us bring in Lee and Randle at the 4 spot and a wing in James Young. Had he stayed Trey Lyles was coming the net season.

Lee had Bam, Gabriel, Humphries, and SKJ coming in...

UK does not have any bigs coming in to contend with SKJ or Wenyen, so this reasoning would not apply.


3. Sophomores leaving for the NBA were the tops in their class at their position and did not reach their predicted potential as freshmen.

Dakari was the #1 center ranked ahead of Embiid

Andrew was the #1 PG

Aaron was the #1 SG

Briscoe was the #1 PG

These kids were supposed to be OAD before ever arriving at UK. The problem with kids like this is the longer they wait to make the jump the more critical the league is of them.


Wenyen was a late riser to #13 in the country and 4th best PF.

Sacha was never higher than #24 and 7th best at his position.

So this does not apply to them either.


4. Tyler Ulis left

Everyone already knows Tyler had maxed out his value after becoming a 1st Team AA, Bob Cousy winner, SEC POY, Defensive POY, 1st Team All-SEC, SEC Tournament MVP

No worries about SKJ or Wenyen maxing out yet....


So basically, if historical trends maintain then as of today we lose Knox and SGA.

Hami is a RS Freshman and may have a Briscoe tendency to go no matter what, although we did not see that last draft nor have we heard that this season. But he definitely could jump.

Vanderbilt is a huge unknown.

People keep stating Wenyen’s financial dilemma, but no one has sourced this whatsoever. The kid grew up in the USA and has a real chance at NBA money someday.

Let’s see what happens and if this season actually changes the way things have gone EVERY single post season Cal has been here.

You make to.mich dn sense. I have said all along when Quade was hurt that screwed our team because SGA is awesome but he bogged our offense down. We were much more fluid when Quade was the PG. Id love to see him back so Quickly can run point, Quade at SG, and SGA as a SF. Three ball handlers, shooters and the offense wouldn't bog down.

 

[TheBigBlueSpectacle]

You make to.mich dn sense. I have said all along when Quade was hurt that screwed our team because SGA is awesome but he bogged our offense down. We were much more fluid when Quade was the PG. Id love to see him back so Quickly can run point, Quade at SG, and SGA as a SF. Three ball handlers, shooters and the offense wouldn't bog down.

We won’t have SGA but will have Baker and Herro to kind of do the same thing. There will be times when baker, green, and quickley are all out there. What if wenyen came back? Then you have four shooters on the floor at a time

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Dennis Rodman didn't even play NCAA basketball. Vanderbilt has got a motor and good handle for his size. Offensively he could become a Draymond Green type of player.

“Could”

 

[brianpoe]

Vanderbilt awful on offense? Only struggles I saw from him were when he was getting limited playing time and every tip in would go in and out, sometimes it'd be 3-4 tip ins would rim out on one possession and was having terrible luck at first. I think he clearly proved in the last 5 games (where he finally got starter minute instead of limited) that he more than proved to be a force in all aspects of the game. Some mocks had him as our highest draft prospect before the season in the top 10 before his injury. This kid is a straight up monster and had he not missed so much time and played the season beginning to end I think most here who watched him could tell he probably would've been by far our best player without missing so much time. I really hope he returns, if not then what a disappointment we didn't get to witness his game come full circle. He's a star in the making if he can get over his case of glass feet.

He proved to easily be by far our best defender as he was an absolutely force on defense with the energy hustle and timing he brought incase yall weren't paying attention to the clinic he put in on that end seemingly forcing multiple deflections turned to steals multiple times every game and no one could score on him in the post it seemed. And to me he looked like the best rebounder in the country hands down. To those who couldn't tell that he just needed time to get in a rhythm on offense to find himself then idk what to say but he's a very versatile force on offense from what I saw, if he returns healthy no doubt in my mind he'll be one of the If not the best player in the country next season. I've heard people say such as biancardi that had he not missed so much time he would've been a top 5 recruit also. Had the talent of one just missed a lot of time.

I'm kinda surprised people still underrate him and his value when healthy, just sucks we couldn't get him healthy. If he returns my hopes for next season improve dramatically. But with sga knox and hami likely gone that doesn't bother me, vando is the one I think might return and if he doesn't we will still be fine but man it'd be huge if he returned. Like huge. And if 4 contributors leave that will hardly be a mass exodus we are still looking at 9-10 5 stars on next years team if 4 leave and Montgomery commits (which I think happens if vando leaves, would rather have vando though Montgomery is a beast and we would be fine either way).

Sorry Andre, scouts have already said JV was NOT a 1st Rounder BEFORE he was hurt.

Also Montgomery seems to be getting further away from UK each day.

And, let me congratulate you on username #6.

 

[brianpoe]

I read it the first time and understood your point. Yes, it would be new for us to lose Freshmen but it's a growing trend for UK players who have no business leaving early to do so. That's the part I'm focused on when I say past indications. It's a short step for it to start being freshmen too. As the trend grows.

So what is the trend?

Briscoe?

 

[mrbud]

Vanderbilt needs to come back , heard he is a 2nd round pick. Like I said in previous post Montgomery is not coming here

 

[TheBigBlueSpectacle]

So what is the trend?

Briscoe?

Humphries, Briscoe.... how many guys are bouncing around right now on ten day contracts? And left early. People seem to take an unsure leap from UK compared to other programs

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Vanderbilt needs to come back , heard he is a 2nd round pick. Like I said in previous post Montgomery is not coming here

So, where is he going? I'm sure he's told you, no?

 

[mash_24]

Knox and Alexander as the only 2 defections would be great.

Green-Quickley-Baker-Herro
Diallo-Johnson-Gabriel-Vanderbilt
PJ-SKJ-Richards-Wynyard

Good group. Keys to me would be keeping Vanderbilt healthy and Cal making some major fundamental changes to his offensive system.

 

[mrbud]

So, where is he going? I'm sure he's told you, no?

Write this down ACC school

 

[brianpoe]

Humphries, Briscoe.... how many guys are bouncing around right now on ten day contracts? And left early. People seem to take an unsure leap from UK compared to other programs

I knew Hump would be brought up...

Here is the deal with him.

Hump was homesick for 2 years - 10,000 miles away.

Hump received a contract offer to play pro at home.

Hump first tested the waters with the NBA to see where he stood at that time and possibly the next season.

He did not receive positive feedback as a potential 1st Round Pick.

Add to this that at the time it appeared Cal was signing Bamba and Richardson.

Hump decided to take the contract back home where he wanted to be in the first place.

His situation is not one that he had no business leaving, he did what was best for himself and his career.

Staying another year or two at UK would only make fans happy not him.

 

[TheBigBlueSpectacle]

Knox and Alexander as the only 2 defections would be great.

Green-Quickley-Baker-Herro
Diallo-Johnson-Gabriel-Vanderbilt
PJ-SKJ-Richards-Wynyard

Good group. Keys to me would be keeping Vanderbilt healthy and Cal making some major fundamental changes to his offensive system.

That’s a FF team if so

 

[docholiday51]

I knew Hump would be brought up...

Here is the deal with him.

Hump was homesick for 2 years - 10,000 miles away.

Hump received a contract offer to play pro at home.

Hump first tested the waters with the NBA to see where he stood at that time and possibly the next season.

He did not receive positive feedback as a potential 1st Round Pick.

Add to this that at the time it appeared Cal was signing Bamba and Richardson.

Hump decided to take the contract back home where he wanted to be in the first place.

His situation is not one that he had no business leaving, he did what was best for himself and his career.

Staying another year or two at UK would only make fans happy not him.

Hump is probably one of the bigger success stories of the Cal years that will never get told. Would have loved to have him on this team but I am glad for the kid.

 

[TheBigBlueSpectacle]

I knew Hump would be brought up...

Here is the deal with him.

Hump was homesick for 2 years - 10,000 miles away.

Hump received a contract offer to play pro at home.

Hump first tested the waters with the NBA to see where he stood at that time and possibly the next season.

He did not receive positive feedback as a potential 1st Round Pick.

Add to this that at the time it appeared Cal was signing Bamba and Richardson.

Hump decided to take the contract back home where he wanted to be in the first place.

His situation is not one that he had no business leaving, he did what was best for himself and his career.

Staying another year or two at UK would only make fans happy not him.

I know what happened with him. I’m not against it. Still happened. Everybody has a story

 

[brianpoe]

I know what happened with him. I’m not against it. Still happened. Everybody has a story

True. But it doesn't follow the narrative of a "trend" of players leaving when they had no business leaving because of the culture Cal set...

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Write this down ACC school

Stop, I can't take that much specificity.

 

[docholiday51]

That’s a FF team if so

Maybe but without a transcendent player I'm not sure the NCAA will allow us to get to a FF

 

[Whatsup]

I don't normally read long posts, but when I do they are spaced appropriately and paragraphed.

Good post....

Well Mr. Perfect I’m glad someone met your expectations.

 

[JC CATS]

Thanks for the post. Pretty much spot on. I wish that only 2 go. but it is what it is. I would like SGA to surprise us, butI think he is gone. Right outside of the lottery. Still can have a great team next season unless we get bad surprises

 

[docholiday51]

Thanks for the post. Pretty much spot on. I wish that only 2 go. but it is what it is. I would like SGA to surprise us, butI think he is gone. Right outside of the lottery. Still can have a great team next season unless we get bad surprises

Hope it works out this way, but one could make the case that SGA is the most expendable based on who is coming in

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

Brian, the culture that Cal has created could be his demise. He's put all of his chips in recruiting on the message of:

1. Players first.

2. I will get you on a fast track out of here.

Well, that's not exactly working so well now. He seems like he's getting a bigger chip on his shoulder, and his stubbornness is not exactly doing him any favors.

It's starting to seem as if he's almost becoming irritated at just about everyone. Bad mouthing his loyal fans. Bitching about brackets, the media, fans.

He better hope everyone returns that should, because it's going to get really ugly if there's another mass exodus. I think everyone, including Cal, knows this.

That sums up my thoughts very well. All of it. Living so far away for a very long time it’s nice to know my feelings aren’t much different from some other UK fans. Cal seems frustrated to me. I really hope for his sake, ours, and theirs most return. IMO none project as sticking a long time in the league. The real money comes when you negotiate that second contract. Murray here in Denver, and Booker are on that track. If they come back, work hard and improve my opinion, and more importantly those of the NBA decision makers with the money could change. But 7 figures is very inticing to an 18/19 year old, their families, and hangers on. They just don’t get that if they are gone after 3 years they will have to find another job and career in not that far away, and without a college degree. But I have always thought long term.

 

[Chuckinden]

Well Mr. Perfect I’m glad someone met your expectations.

:scream:

 

[brianpoe]

:scream:

Chuck I certainly appreciated your kind words.