OT: WHO changes COVID testing

[Junction John]

Crazy that your introduction to what would become a world-changing political pandemic got one vote. We didn't know what we didn't know.

Also in the first post about it, you mentioned not-trusting the Chinese case totals. That was a good early call right there, Pinestrodamus.

 

[mstateglfr]

Well, it is interesting that they announce this on literally the day Biden became President. Maybe that's just a coincidence though.

I completely agree and said that very thing to my wife and a family friend about 5 hours ago.
The timing is odd.
Perhaps the WHO released it today because for them today is just like any other day.
I am just not sure why the WHO releasing this last Thursday for example would have been 'good' for Trump. What difference would it have made really?

I'm sure Biden will go down in history as having been the president that beat covid. Oh 17ing well. It should be obvious to many that this isn't a lighswitch and it was slow to spread and is slow to improve. The timing is such that the slow improvement looks to have started shortly after the election.
Timing sucks for one side and helped another. Again, oh 17ing well. I really don't care because I don't see Biden as the covid savior and definitely don't see Trump as the covid savior.



I clearly am not politically savvy enough to see why releasing this today is so meaningful in a conspiratory way. The WHO releasing this on December 28th, January 20th, or January 30th is all the same in my eyes. There is no difference to me. Again, I am not politically savvy to understand how this benefits Biden by releasing it today vs releasing it weeks earlier or later.

 

[mstateglfr]

Vaccine readiness announced after election, city and states open after Ga runoff, and case loads soon to plummet post inauguration. Wake up wokebot they’re pulling your strings.

Who is pulling my strings? Big pharma? The democrats? The mainstream media? The health division of the United Nations?


I was surprised to see how many people apparently think the WHO reports to Biden. Who were they reporting to for all these decades?...Biden then too?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Sure, because the previous 100 days of masking up have done a helluva job.

It takes 100 days for the masks to get warmed up. Then 100 more to really see the benefits. Don’t you get it? It’s science.

 

[Raiderdawg.sixpack]

This is not really news. We’ve known several of the rapid test platforms, which almost all use some version of PCR technology, are crap and can give a false positive. I mean crap - designed without appropriate controls garbage. The FDA gave almost every diagnostic platform with any results an EUA when people couldn’t get testing.

The clarification is just saying what we already know. I can’t speak to why WHO officially clarified it around the Inauguration Day.

 

[gwadSIG]

Who is pulling my strings? Big pharma? The democrats? The mainstream media? The health division of the United Nations?


I was surprised to see how many people apparently think the WHO reports to Biden. Who were they reporting to for all these decades?...Biden then too?

Coincidentally Biden announced on his first day....

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeBiden...99559.ampproject.net/2101152047000/frame.html

And Fauchi is still involved...every president since Reagan. Hmmmm

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Thanks, I’ve appreciated your input during this.

This is not really news. We’ve known several of the rapid test platforms, which almost all use some version of PCR technology, are crap and can give a false positive. I mean crap - designed without appropriate controls garbage. The FDA gave almost every diagnostic platform with any results an EUA when people couldn’t get testing.

The clarification is just saying what we already know. I can’t speak to why WHO officially clarified it around the Inauguration Day.

Did anyone who is recognized as an authority say they were garbage publicly before now? I have not seen that stated before by anyone deemed credible.

 

[thatsbaseball]

So is this basically saying we really don't know how many have died from or even ever had Covid ?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I’d have to go back and find it but I know there were numerous scientists and doctors saying that PCR would give false positives. Like Raiderdawg said, they were giving the green light for any kind of test without a second thought.

 

[paindonthurt_]

A lot of things should be obvious to people but alas we are always trying to explain those things to you.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Have you paid attention at all?

The WHO is heavily tied to China, correct? Yes.
Trump was very outspoken against WHO, correct? Yes, and with very good justification.
Biden is heavily tied to China, correct? Yes.
Biden and Dems condemned trump for being so outspoken against the WHO, correct? Yes.

Are you following?

 

[paindonthurt_]

But those numbers will be affect now right?

If you die from falling off a roof and only have 1 positive test, it’s now due to falling off a roof and not Covid.

 

[paindonthurt_]

No one said it would be less for individuals. We said what is and will continue to happen.

It will start to get less and less media attention and will begin to be downplayed. Which definitely matters.

This is a prime example of that.

 

[aTotal360]

Enough to get rid of those pesky small businesses.

 

[Raiderdawg.sixpack]

So I didn’t hear this at the Cheetah, but....


Some companies were given EUAs that in my opinion did not use appropriate controls in their validation data. This left the real possibility that you will see a significant number of false positives on specific platforms. I could go into specifics, but the point is if you are showing no symptoms, have no reason to believe you were exposed & test positive on a rapid test, then I would want confirmation depending on the platform used.

 

[paindonthurt_]

I’m confused on what your wife might do for a living.

Flu tests are up but flu visits are down for her? Why do people visit her in flu season? Flu rehab?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

And this is one of the reasons I don’t buy

So I didn’t hear this at the Cheetah, but....


Some companies were given EUAs that in my opinion did not use appropriate controls in their validation data. This left the real possibility that you will see a significant number of false positives on specific platforms. I could go into specifics, but the point is if you are showing no symptoms, have no reason to believe you were exposed & test positive on a rapid test, then I would want confirmation depending on the platform used.

All the hysteria with covid. Yes, I know it can be serious and good people have died. I become disillusioned when this kind of crap happens. If the medical community knew these things were junk, they should’ve been telling people to discount their results a long time ago. Instead, people with no symptoms were being forced to quarantine along with those who had been in close contact with them.
Also, the organization that approved the use of this test also just approved a vaccine that was developed in record time. It was developed not by one company, which would be damn near miraculous in this amount of time, but by 3 maybe more. That’s ********. “Well they approved bogus tests, but they wouldn’t approve bogus vaccines.” For those of you not skeptical of the lightning fast development of this vaccine, please go work in a pharma plant and find out how many drugs/vaccines/etc. get shutdown by the FDA for very minor things. And if they are so confident of its effectiveness and safety, why do you have to be monitored after receiving the vaccine? Don’t worry, the FDA/CDC wouldn’t lie to or mislead you...again.

 

[Captain Ron]

It takes 100 days for the masks to get warmed up. Then 100 more to really see the benefits. Don’t you get it? It’s science.

Interesting enough, apparently the “science” say that only medical grade masks work in Germany. (There have been a ton of studies in the past that showed cloth masks did nothing for the flu fwiw). They are blaming it on the new variant, but as you can see from their numbers, the mandates and fines have had no noticeable impact.

Can we be far behind on mandating this? Follow the science******

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...mandates-medical-grade-masks/?sh=5e8adcd32596

 

[mstateglfr]

Have you paid attention at all?

The WHO is heavily tied to China, correct? Yes.
Trump was very outspoken against WHO, correct? Yes, and with very good justification.
Biden is heavily tied to China, correct? Yes.
Biden and Dems condemned trump for being so outspoken against the WHO, correct? Yes.

Are you following?

Ok, so Biden is pulling my strings on this one?
If I have it right, the WHO waited to release these findings until yesterday to make Biden look good since he is a friend to China?

I honestly cant keep up with all the theories as to who is controlling what.
Ill continue to lean toward's Raiderdawg's comments on covid. Even though they include science speak thats way above my head, its less confusing than trying to keep up with the claimed motivations and influence of nefarious governmental figures and businesses that are hellbent on...something, not sure what, but guessing its money related.

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

I’m confused on what your wife might do for a living.

Flu tests are up but flu visits are down for her? Why do people visit her in flu season? Flu rehab?

Sorry. The they don't give the flu tests, just the treatment, but only once you test positive for the flu. Hardly anyone is testing positive and thus they are not treating as many patients.

Eta. Not directed at you pain, but funny enough, great easy to read article in the WSJ this morning saying worldwide the flu is basically being wiped out this year.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-has-nearly-wiped-out-the-fluhow-do-we-keep-it-from-coming-back-11611230410

Hot take: when the whole world is in on the conspiracy, it's not a conspiracy, it's the reality.

 

[johnson86-1]

I don't believe anything nefarious is going on, but Biden is going to unfairly get credit for declining Covid cases over the next 60 days. It looks like case counts peaked nationally a couple of weeks ago. Vaccines are increasing. Winter (cold and flu season) will end in 60 days. And unlike this summer, there probably is an actual herd immunity element taking hold in some areas.

Nefarious is probably a strong word for it, but we have basically zero institutions that don't let partisanship pretty strongly influence their actions. It's been known for a while that the US had the sensitivity for PCR tests set wayyyyyy to low. It's possible that this is just normal slow moving bureaucracy. It's also almost a certainty that if the WHO thought it would help Trump, they would have had decision makers reluctant to come out with this position earlier. Who knows which actually happened, but it's unfortunate that the WHO isn't credible. They're a little different because they've been captured by China whereas most of the typical US institutions have just been captured by antirepublican animus (although some of that is also partly from being captured by China), but still just another example of not having a credible institution where one would be extremely valuable, if it existed.

Some people are going to crow that Biden made a difference. Others will crow it was all a conspiracy to make Trump look bad. The truth will be it's a mother17ing cold virus and it did what it does and we all could have done better in hindsight, but nobody outside of Beijing should be blamed for any of it.

The vaccine development in less than a year is badass though. Science is awesome. Politics suck.

This a thousand times. They have to be laughing at how their 17up brought the world to a halt and a mixture of paid stooges and a bunch of useful idiots in the US and elsewhere made it about domestic politics.

 

[patdog]

You're clearly being disingenuous in this whole thread. Are you honestly expecting us to believe the WHO didn't have a HUGE vested interest in who won this election. Of course they've manipulated this to benefit Biden and hurt Trump.

 

[johnson86-1]

The number that matters most of excess mortality, which requires no PCR test

That's true, but it's also incomplete until well after the pandemic. Barring some unusual event, we should see mortality drop below average after the pandemic subsides, as so many of the people dying were on death's door anyway and their deaths were just brought forward anywhere from a few days to a few years. If we don't see mortality drop below average, and there's not another explanation for it, then we'll have to worry about whether there are serious lingering effects from the virus.

But we're probably already having some downward pressure on mortality right now from deaths occurring in the fall and summer, although it is probably more than offset by continued deaths from covid.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Interesting enough, apparently the “science” say that only medical grade masks work in Germany. (There have been a ton of studies in the past that showed cloth masks did nothing for the flu fwiw). They are blaming it on the new variant, but as you can see from their numbers, the mandates and fines have had no noticeable impact.

Can we be far behind on mandating this? Follow the science******

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...mandates-medical-grade-masks/?sh=5e8adcd32596

Well, now apparently one mask isn't enough. We are supposed to double mask.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-double-masks-adds-to-obstacle-course-particles-research-shows/

 

[Prediction? Pain.]

PCR positive is no longer = Covid. You are not Covid now unless you get a second test to confirm it, and are presenting clinical symptoms. How much Does it cost to get a test?

Released 20/21 Jan 2020

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05

I'm not sure I'm reading the press release the same way you are. This is a notice to clinicians (or maybe laboratories, more specifically) who handle PCR tests to remind them to follow those test's instructions to avoid the potential for false positives. The release doesn't say that all positive PCR tests are invalid unless accompanied by symptoms and a second positive test. It says that clinicians should remember that "careful interpretation of weak positive results" in essential, the "weakness" of the positive results stemming from viral load on the threshold of the test's parameters. Specifically, the release reminds clinicians to do this:

1. Please read carefully the IFU in its entirety. ("IFU" = PCR test's "instructions for use")
2. Contact your local representative if there is any aspect of the IFU that is unclear to you.
3. Check the IFU for each incoming consignment to detect any changes to the IFU.
4. Provide the Ct value in the report to the requesting health care provider. ("Ct value" = "cycle threshold needed to detect virus," which "is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load")

Further, the reminders in this release jive with the WHO's guidance for PCR testing, which they've released since January 2020. Here's a link to the latest edition of it, which was published last September:

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/diagnostic-testing-for-sars-cov-2

That document from September says basically the same thing that today's reminder notice says:

Careful interpretation of weak positive NAAT results is needed, as some of the assays have shown to produce false signals at high Ct values. When test results turn out to be invalid or questionable, the patient should be resampled and retested. If additional samples from the patient are not available, RNA should be re-extracted from the original samples and retested by highly experienced staff. Results can be confirmed by an alternative NAAT test or via virus sequencing if the viral load is sufficiently high. Laboratories are urged to seek reference laboratory confirmation of any unexpected results.

Not only that, but the last page in the September document is a page-long "checklist to reduce possible cases of false positive rRT-PCR results and handling of equivocal results" that laboratories use when conducting tests.

So I'm not seeing a sea change -- or any change, really -- in the WHO's guidance for PCR testing. But I guess I could misreading those documents. What does everyone else think?

 

[mstateglfr]

You're clearly being disingenuous in this whole thread. Are you honestly expecting us to believe the WHO didn't have a HUGE vested interest in who won this election. Of course they've manipulated this to benefit Biden and hurt Trump.

- It was mentioned that this was released because of a new president.
- I pointed out that the WHO doesnt simply follow or do what a president elect wants.
- that was met with a half dozen general consipiracy claims.
- you point out that it is interesting the announcement was made on election day and that it could be coincidence. I agree that the timing was odd and mention that i even said as much earlier in the day.
- I then admit that I dont understand why the release on election day is such a big issue since it would be no different than it it were released a week ago or a week from now. If the WHO had changed their policy a week ago, what would be different?...people would still claim conspiracy. If the WHO had changed their policy a week from now, what would be different?...people would still claim conspiracy.
- you now accuse me of being intentionally disingenuous. I am not. Why the 17 would I? Also, you went from 'maybe just a coincidence' to 'the WHO manipulated this to benefit Biden' in a pretty quick time.

Would this have no benefitted Biden if it had been released on December 15th? January 4th? January 17th? I dont see why it would benefit him any more or any less had it been released those days vs yesterday.

 

[dorndawg]

I'm not sure I'm reading the press release the same way you are. This is a notice to clinicians (or maybe laboratories, more specifically) who handle PCR tests to remind them to follow those test's instructions to avoid the potential for false positives. The release doesn't say that all positive PCR tests are invalid unless accompanied by symptoms and a second positive test. It says that clinicians should remember that "careful interpretation of weak positive results" in essential, the "weakness" of the positive results stemming from viral load on the threshold of the test's parameters. Specifically, the release reminds clinicians to do this:



Further, the reminders in this release jive with the WHO's guidance for PCR testing, which they've released since January 2020. Here's a link to the latest edition of it, which was published last September:

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/diagnostic-testing-for-sars-cov-2

That document from September says basically the same thing that today's reminder notice says:



Not only that, but the last page in the September document is a page-long "checklist to reduce possible cases of false positive rRT-PCR results and handling of equivocal results" that laboratories use when conducting tests.

So I'm not seeing a sea change -- or any change, really -- in the WHO's guidance for PCR testing. But I guess I could misreading those documents. What does everyone else think?

Way to really brag to everyone you aren't a complete moron...

 

[Drebin]

Interesting enough, apparently the “science” say that only medical grade masks work in Germany. (There have been a ton of studies in the past that showed cloth masks did nothing for the flu fwiw). They are blaming it on the new variant, but as you can see from their numbers, the mandates and fines have had no noticeable impact.

Can we be far behind on mandating this? Follow the science******

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...mandates-medical-grade-masks/?sh=5e8adcd32596

Shhh....only science that pushes a narrative is allowed. There's no room for actual science here.

 

[Bill Shankly]

Which turned out to be true

No it hasn't.

 

[Bill Shankly]

Shhh....only science that pushes a narrative is allowed. There's no room for actual science here.

You also have to be willing to understand the science.

 

[Bill Shankly]

PCR positive is no longer = Covid. You are not Covid now unless you get a second test to confirm it, and are presenting clinical symptoms. How much Does it cost to get a test?

Released 20/21 Jan 2020

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05

That didn't change much at all. In fact the way I read it it didn't change anything. Y'all are just reaching.

 

[Bill Shankly]

Sorry. The they don't give the flu tests, just the treatment, but only once you test positive for the flu. Hardly anyone is testing positive and thus they are not treating as many patients.

Eta. Not directed at you pain, but funny enough, great easy to read article in the WSJ this morning saying worldwide the flu is basically being wiped out this year.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...ow-do-we-keep-it-from-coming-back-11611230410

Hot take: when the whole world is in on the conspiracy, it's not a conspiracy, it's the reality.

Flu is not nearly as contagious as COVID. It would stand to reason that a disease that is transmitted in much the same way as COVID would be much more heavily affected by the measures we are taking to try to limit COVID. This was actually expected and predicted. The flu could be almost wiped out if people would just stay home when they are sick.

 

[johnson86-1]

Ok, so Biden is pulling my strings on this one?
If I have it right, the WHO waited to release these findings until yesterday to make Biden look good since he is a friend to China?

I honestly cant keep up with all the theories as to who is controlling what.
Ill continue to lean toward's Raiderdawg's comments on covid. Even though they include science speak thats way above my head, its less confusing than trying to keep up with the claimed motivations and influence of nefarious governmental figures and businesses that are hellbent on...something, not sure what, but guessing its money related.

That's because you're a moron. There are lots of conspiracy theories floating around, but this is not one of them and it's not complicated. It's not who is controlling what, it's who is heavily influenced and politically aligned. It's like trying to pretend that people who recognize there are factions within the democrat and republican party in the US are conspiracy theorists because it takes more than one sentence to explain who the players are.

 

[Shmuley]

Osterholm was barking as early as last March about the EUA for wuhan testing products being "the Wild West." He was very much out front saying that many of the approved testing products were complete trash.

 

[Drebin]

You also have to be willing to understand the science.

 

[mstateglfr]

That's because you're a moron. There are lots of conspiracy theories floating around, but this is not one of them and it's not complicated. It's not who is controlling what, it's who is heavily influenced and politically aligned. It's like trying to pretend that people who recognize there are factions within the democrat and republican party in the US are conspiracy theorists because it takes more than one sentence to explain who the players are.

Yeah, I really just dont understand why its a big deal that this was announced yesterday compared to a month ago, two weeks ago, or next week. There have been multiple comments about the timing of it all and how thats such ********. I dont follow.
To me, this news doesnt help Biden more now than it would have two weeks ago, a month ago, or next week.

Furthermore, doesnt this 'help' leaders in other countries too? Its the WHO's announcement, not the CDC's announcement. This goes back to the claims that covid would 'end' the day after the election as if it was somehow a US issue that the entire rest of the world is just rolling along with.

 

[johnson86-1]

Well, now apparently one mask isn't enough. We are supposed to double mask.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-double-masks-adds-to-obstacle-course-particles-research-shows/

Bet plastic bags would really work.**

 

[Drebin]

Flu is not nearly as contagious as COVID. It would stand to reason that a disease that is transmitted in much the same way as COVID would be much more heavily affected by the measures we are taking to try to limit COVID. This was actually expected and predicted. The flu could be almost wiped out if people would just stay home when they are sick.

This is why you get mocked endlessly on this board. You make three or four assertions within a four sentence paragraph as medical fact. There is no conclusive medical evidence that the flu "is not nearly" as contagious as covid. I mean, how do you even quantify "is not nearly"? 10%? 20%? 70%?

 

[patdog]

There's plenty of medical evidence that flu isn't as contagious as COVID. I knew 8 months ago that we weren't going to have a flu season this winter because of the measures we were taking (and got mocked on this board for saying so, but I was right).

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

You’re contagious for a much longer period of time with Covid as opposed to flu. Influenza youre typically only contagious for a couple of days.