OT - Telsa Model 3

Jonb127

Junior
Sep 30, 2012
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Anyone reserve one? Can you lease it? The website doesn't seem clear on that. Also, what's the deal with the tax credit? Sounds like it would be $7,500, but then I read it's only for the first 200,000 cars so it may not be available still. Anyone with good knowledge of how that works.

TIA
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
50,955
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No more tax credits - that ship has sailed.

The initial model in production is the single motor, lower-performance variant - the hi-po model won't be out until '18.

The 0-60 time on the current version is uninspiring.
 

T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
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No more tax credits - that ship has sailed.

The initial model in production is the single motor, lower-performance variant - the hi-po model won't be out until '18.

The 0-60 time on the current version is uninspiring.
In general, how much electricity do the Tesla's gobble up? If you save $300 a month on gas, do you lose most of those savings with increased electric bills?
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
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In general, how much electricity do the Tesla's gobble up? If you save $300 a month on gas, do you lose most of those savings with increased electric bills?

No idea. I doubt it's dollar for dollar, but I don't know what the cost per mile is for an EV.
 
Oct 17, 2006
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In general, how much electricity do the Tesla's gobble up? If you save $300 a month on gas, do you lose most of those savings with increased electric bills?

I went through this when I was buying my EV. Assuming I pay 12 cents per kw-hr to charge my car, the alternative is a 24 mpg car, gas is $2.60 per gallon, and I drive 12,000 miler per year -- an EV saves me only $790 per year. The savings is more than that if you can use free charging stations like I have at work and the supercharging stations on the road.
 

Jonb127

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Sep 30, 2012
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I went through this when I was buying my EV. Assuming I pay 12 cents per kw-hr to charge my car, the alternative is a 24 mpg car, gas is $2.60 per gallon, and I drive 12,000 miler per year -- an EV saves me only $790 per year. The savings is more than that if you can use free charging stations like I have at work and the supercharging stations on the road.

So it's basically cutting the current price of gas in half correct? You would pay around $1300 a year for gas, but now you're paying $510 if you're saving $790.
 

RU4Real

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
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So it's basically cutting the current price of gas in half correct? You would pay around $1300 a year for gas, but now you're paying $510 if you're saving $790.

So does the savings over the life of the car exceed the increased cost? That's the key element of the equation, without considering the intangibles (i.e. you can't take it on a trip of more than 200 miles).
 

Jonb127

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Sep 30, 2012
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So does the savings over the life of the car exceed the increased cost? That's the key element of the equation, without considering the intangibles (i.e. you can't take it on a trip of more than 200 miles).

I know some here hate the idea of Auto-pilot, but I love it. Just the highway assist particularly for the commute. I know some others have it, but Tesla seems to have the most advanced.
 

RU4Real

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I know some here hate the idea of Auto-pilot, but I love it. Just the highway assist particularly for the commute. I know some others have it, but Tesla seems to have the most advanced.

I have no interest in it. I don't do long-haul to nap. I do it at the highest speed possible.
 

FanuSanu52

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Nov 8, 2011
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I know some here hate the idea of Auto-pilot, but I love it. Just the highway assist particularly for the commute. I know some others have it, but Tesla seems to have the most advanced.

New Audi A8 has Level 3 capabilities; Tesla system is Level 2 ...along with similar systems from other brands.
 

T2Kplus10

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Feb 24, 2010
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RU4Real

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Doesn't seem like EV's are anywhere close to being cost effective yet.

I continue to be very concerned about the tipping point. Lithium is a finite resource. The transmission grid has well-known limitations. We're not building new power plants. It's not difficult to see a day when there are electric cars in half the garages and rolling blackouts, nationwide, because of it.
 

T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
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I continue to be very concerned about the tipping point. Lithium is a finite resource. The transmission grid has well-known limitations. We're not building new power plants. It's not difficult to see a day when there are electric cars in half the garages and rolling blackouts, nationwide, because of it.
Tree huggers whine about gasoline, but electricity doesn't grow on trees either. This country needs more fission plants.
 

RUfinal4

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while electricity doesn't grow on trees solar panels do help bring more electricity to people. If we adopt solar panels and wind farms then we may have a lot of renewable energy.

Trump can create a solar wall along the border with Mexico and give tax advantages to solar / wind companies to put their factories in coal country like West Va and Kentucky so the out of work miners can find other jobs.

We just need to increase the supply of energy via solar / wind and the costs will be minimal without using up the natural resources.
 
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RU4Real

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Yeah, but one is $45K and the other is $85K.

Yeah, but it's tech and Audi (in particular) has a well-defined release cycle when it comes to that stuff.

Two years ago the virtual cockpit was introduced in the TT-RS. It's now available across the entire lineup and standard on all "S" variants.
 

jason21psu

Junior
Jan 9, 2015
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I continue to be very concerned about the tipping point. Lithium is a finite resource. The transmission grid has well-known limitations. We're not building new power plants. It's not difficult to see a day when there are electric cars in half the garages and rolling blackouts, nationwide, because of it.

While that potential exists, most energy is used during "normal business hours" so car charging is a way of load shifting making the overall grid utilization more consistent. This benefits the traditional electric producing companies greatly.
 

applesktrack

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How long does it take to charge. EVs will be useless for most people until they can actually do distance driving.
 

applesktrack

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The Model 3 goes over 200 miles and charges overnight so I don't think it will be useless to most.
If it's strictly for to and from work then it will be ok. I guess if you have money for another car that is strictly for distance driving it will be ok.
 

FanuSanu52

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It's useless to anyone who has to drive more than 200 miles, ever.

On a regular basis, true, but I wouldn't say ever. You do a road trip once a year, a rental car's a good option anyway. Or a second car with more space and a gas tank to shuttle the family back and forth to the cabin in the summer.
 

RU4Real

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On a regular basis, true, but I wouldn't say ever. You do a road trip once a year, a rental car's a good option anyway. Or a second car with more space and a gas tank to shuttle the family back and forth to the cabin in the summer.

I wouldn't buy a car that I wouldn't enjoy taking on a road trip.
 

Jonb127

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Sep 30, 2012
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Correct, I don't buy cars as a status symbol. I buy them to be useful for my needs.

I think the fact that it can't go over 200 miles without being plugged in doesn't make it not useful. RU4REAL likes to drive. We're all aware. So it's not a good fit for him. That's not a big deal to me. I have two cars. We use the other for all long trips anyway. I'm sure there would be a time when I have to go over 200 miles in this but it would be very few and far between that I could figure something out. It's useful to me daily though if I can get out of dealing with a brutal commute everyday or at least relieving me of some of it.
 

FanuSanu52

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I wouldn't buy a car that I wouldn't enjoy taking on a road trip.

I don't doubt it, and I know there are plenty that are the same. I wouldn't want one much for that same reason.

Other driver profiles could work around it, though. If you commute 50 or 100 miles every day and take one or a handful of longer trips a year, seems easy enough to make it work.
 

RU4Real

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I don't doubt it, and I know there are plenty that are the same. I wouldn't want one much for that same reason.

Other driver profiles could work around it, though. If you commute 50 or 100 miles every day and take one or a handful of longer trips a year, seems easy enough to make it work.

True, but in that case I would think a Tesla would be overkill. If you're a 50-100 mile per day commuter, in traffic (as per the above poster) then Tesla's focus on performance is money that doesn't need to be spent.
 

applesktrack

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Something I would be concerned about is getting stuck in a big traffic jam and stuck for a few hours and the battery running low. With a gas car its easy to fill up but now the traffic jam might stick you somewhere for hours while it charges.
 

Jonb127

Junior
Sep 30, 2012
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True, but in that case I would think a Tesla would be overkill. If you're a 50-100 mile per day commuter, in traffic (as per the above poster) then Tesla's focus on performance is money that doesn't need to be spent.

I agree. I actually don't do the commute yet. It has the potential of coming up so that's what had me looking. I really just want the best driver assist available for under 50K. If I can save some money on gas too I'll take it. I'm not looking to save the environment or anything here. Just trying to make a potential crappy commute better and the Telsa Model 3 seemed like a good option.
 
Oct 17, 2006
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Something I would be concerned about is getting stuck in a big traffic jam and stuck for a few hours and the battery running low. With a gas car its easy to fill up but now the traffic jam might stick you somewhere for hours while it charges.

Surprisingly (to me at least) the Tesla battery doesn't discharge much in traffic. In fact the mileage improves at slow speeds. The only time I had range anxiety was my first long trip (to Toronto). But the navigation system routes you through supercharging stations on the way. And there are plenty of them.
 
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DJ Spanky

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
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Tree huggers whine about gasoline, but electricity doesn't grow on trees either. This country needs more fission plants.
Sadly, with political climate the way it is, there's no way that could be accomplished. Add on to that the regulatory hurdles that exist, and no one is willing to even try to push for new plants. Worse, with the credits given to alternative energy sources, it's driven the cost per kwH down to the point where they are undercutting nuclear plants, hastening their demise.
 

applesktrack

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Surprisingly (to me at least) the Tesla battery doesn't discharge much in traffic. In fact the mileage improves at slow speeds. The only time I had range anxiety was my first long trip (to Toronto). But the navigation system routes you through supercharging stations on the way. And there are plenty of them.
How long does it take to actually charge at those station.
 

SkilletHead2

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Sep 30, 2005
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The internal combustion engine isn't in its death throes yet, but it will be soon. The Volt was proof of concept, and the Tesla 3 will convince the masses to make the shift. Already Volvo has announced that they will develop no more ICE's and GB has announced it wants to be all electric by 2040.

The $7500 appears to still be in place unless something has happened this week, and many states have additional rebates. In a couple years, those rebates will no longer be required in order for pricing to be competitive. Already you can get a basic Tesla 3 for $35k. The big step up is to increase range from 220 miles to 310 miles. That is an additional $9k. Don't want it? Don't buy it. But most folks who are looking at 3's don't really care about an additional $9k.

At the other end is the Nissan Leaf. We are probably going to get one of those soon, used, unless we hold out for a 3 or a Renault Zoe. 90% of our driving is back and forth to work, 12 miles each way. We can charge at night when the rates are low. Gas here costs $7 a gallon. We currently drive our RAV4 to work and back, getting 20 miles to the gallon. Shifting to the Leaf would save us over $2000 a year. We can buy a late model leaf down here for about $22k. Looking at Mitsubishi PHEV SUV for a new "big car" to go with it.

Lithium isn't really an availability problem.

Here is what I think will ultimately cause headaches for consumers and delight for the car industry down the road: cars will become like laptops. Nobody will want one that is three years old, because the technology in the new ones will be so much better. I'm looking at a Leaf right now. There are two generations. Lord knows I don't want the old generation even though it works fine. And then there is the 3 and the Zoe. Much cooler. And so on....

It will all be interesting, but faster than we think, it'll all be electric.
 

FanuSanu52

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Here is what I think will ultimately cause headaches for consumers and delight for the car industry down the road: cars will become like laptops. Nobody will want one that is three years old, because the technology in the new ones will be so much better. I'm looking at a Leaf right now. There are two generations. Lord knows I don't want the old generation even though it works fine. And then there is the 3 and the Zoe. Much cooler. And so on....

It will all be interesting, but faster than we think, it'll all be electric.

Development cycles still way too long to make that a reality. I think the industry will head away from individual ownership and on to service-based car-sharing long before consumers start thinking of car purchases like once-a-year smartphones.