OT: Official 2018 World Cup Thread

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,520
21,922
113
Well my Belgium team couldn't advance so no celebration for me. The Red Devils, who do not use a stupid chicken/bird as it symbol, played a great game yesterday, had many chances but couldn't break the ice. They were a fun team to watch.
On to today's game and looking forward to it. Ill root for England simply because I recognize more of their players.
 
Dec 17, 2008
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England 1-0 off the free kick. In that article was reading many teams don't spend a lot of time practicing set pieces but England has devoted more time to that. Seems to have paid off this Cup.
 

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,419
44,436
113
Kane really should've scored there...first time he's missed with a shot on goal after 6 goals...
 
Dec 17, 2008
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Kane really should've scored there...first time he's missed with a shot on goal after 6 goals...
I'm not all that impressed by him for all the love he gets. He's an okay player and probably good in the air off the set piece but he missed one in the last game that went wide and two here not on target regardless of the offsides call or not.

It's a good thing England practiced and seems to be doing well on set pieces because they still have issues finishing during "regular" play.
 

MadRU

Heisman
Jul 26, 2001
38,655
19,675
98
I'm not all that impressed by him for all the love he gets. He's an okay player and probably good in the air off the set piece but he missed one in the last game that went wide and two here not on target regardless of the offsides call or not.

It's a good thing England practiced and seems to be doing well on set pieces because they still have issues finishing during "regular" play.

You have to watch Kane a lot to appreciate what he does. He isn’t the fastest or strongest but he out works everyone. He can pass very well and he can score equally well with his head his right foot or his left foot.

He has scored the “perfect” hat trick in a game during the season.

Watch him more closely and see the subtitles of his game. He is not a freak like Ronaldo Messi or Mbappe, but he does everything in the game well.
 
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Leg got up high there but it was above Walker's head and didn't really hit him. Nice run in front of the goal to get that shot. 1-1.
 
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Free header for Kane unobstructed but again not on goal.

England strikes me as a bunch of grinders/blue collar players. I think Southgate was smart in emphasizing/practicing set pieces and trying to take as much advantage of those scoring chances as possible.

I don't see the skill, finesse, touch, vision on some other teams on England's team. They do what they do and try to do it as best they can. The easier path for them probably helped this tournament too.
 

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,419
44,436
113
England finished that half in complete disarray - probably lucky they made it to OT. Let's see if they can regroup in OT.
 
Dec 17, 2008
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Nice save by the Croatian defender and England getting another free unobstructed header this time on goal.

Whoever the heck the US coach is in the future, I hope he tries to employ similar methods on maximizing set piece opportunities like England has in this cup. My mind is like US can be a poor man's England in the way we approach the game.
 
Dec 17, 2008
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2-1 Croatia. Well last 12 minutes gonna be fun now with England having to push.

EDIT: I liked that the ref didn't stop play there for Croatia's player even though I'm slightly partial to Croatia in this game. Too much of this trying to waste time. Keep going. Waste time legally dribbling into corners or what not but not falling down with "injuries."
 
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Dec 17, 2008
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Croatia wins 2-1. I guess it's not coming home.

Pickford should've gone up there for that last free kick. See this is what I mean too, Croatia was doing some shady time wasting in the extra extra time but the time added never equates the time wasted. Penalize that kind of crap.

Solid run by England given what they are IMO. They did what they could given the talent and made the most out of the easier path.
 

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,419
44,436
113
England simply blew this one. They became a mistake machine after about the 70th minute and gave Croatia too many chances and that goal by Manduzic was unforgivably bad defense by England with nobody covering him off an easy to defend header-pass. Was a shame Trippier went off injured right after Vardy came on as the last sub, as the last 9 minutes without him would've been much more interesting at 11 on 11. But Croatia did create good pressure and did execute better later, so they should get some credit, although I look at this as more England losing.
 

krup

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
70,133
10,066
0
Free header for Kane unobstructed but again not on goal.

England strikes me as a bunch of grinders/blue collar players. I think Southgate was smart in emphasizing/practicing set pieces and trying to take as much advantage of those scoring chances as possible.

I don't see the skill, finesse, touch, vision on some other teams on England's team. They do what they do and try to do it as best they can. The easier path for them probably helped this tournament too.
I was a little disappointed with their strategy of going for the “breakaway” so often with Sterling then Rashford. It meant that their one truly world class player, Kane, was too often behind the play and Sterling couldn’t finish the chances he got anyway.
 

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,520
21,922
113
Well we should finally get a full squad Belgium vs England but now just for 3rd place.
Have no rooting interest for the Final. Not an exciting matchup. France should be a strong favorite but an upset won't excite me at all.
@AreYouNUTS you heading back to the Croatian bar? That should be a scene!
 

ecojew

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Feb 1, 2006
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2,271
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Well we should finally get a full squad Belgium vs England but now just for 3rd place.
Have no rooting interest for the Final. Not an exciting matchup. France should be a strong favorite but an upset won't excite me at all.
@AreYouNUTS you heading back to the Croatian bar? That should be a scene!

There's a Croatian bar? That's a bit surprising.

I was hoping for a Croatia win. The announcers kept mentioning that it is the second smallest (population wise) country ever to reach the final and I tend to root for the little guys. Smallest must be Uruguay, with 3 million people (and 10 million cattle + 25 million sheep, as they'll tell you) who not only went to the final game twice but won it both times (as they'll also tell you, always within five minutes of meeting them. Croatia has just over 4 million people (had to look it up) and is a population that is shrinking these days.
 

snowboarder

All-Conference
Aug 3, 2004
1,001
1,094
113
Nice save by the Croatian defender and England getting another free unobstructed header this time on goal.

Whoever the heck the US coach is in the future, I hope he tries to employ similar methods on maximizing set piece opportunities like England has in this cup. My mind is like US can be a poor man's England in the way we approach the game.
Emulating England is what got us into this Soccer mess to begin with. To this day they do not create any creative mids. We discard all of our creative mids in favor of perceived to be better athletes. In my sons time at NY Redbull, the y were so stocked at center mid that I told my son, a designated developmental player, to distance himself from the organization. 6 of these wonderful players were US nationals at one time, including my son. None of these players have played a minute in the MLS. We should be emulating Mexico , developing the crafty, quick and creative players that we see abundantly on the youth level here in the US v
 
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Emulating England is what got us into this Soccer mess to begin with. To this day they do not create any creative mids. We discard all of our creative mids in favor of perceived to be better athletes. In my sons time at NY Redbull, the y were so stocked at center mid that I told my son, a designated developmental player, to distance himself from the organization. 6 of these wonderful players were US nationals at one time, including my son. None of these players have played a minute in the MLS. We should be emulating Mexico , developing the crafty, quick and creative players that we see abundantly on the youth level here in the US v
I actually agree with you in the sense that my casual soccer fan eyes don't see creative players when I watch US soccer at the international level. I have the sense that it's not coming any time soon either. Are we suddenly going to see them all burst on scene and show that vision, finesse, skill we see from other teams even if not the same caliber? I tend to think not any time soon.

I agree with you in that I don't see it from England either but they tried to maximize what they had and seem to practice maximizing opportunities on set pieces. Mind you they were helped by an easier schedule but they worked with what they had. I feel like that's what we have to do at least in the short term because I don't get the impression of some wave of skillful creative players coming down the pipe soon.

Just as a casual fan spitballing of what can be effective for the time being is something of Sweden like style with solid defense and opportunistic counterattacking and really emphasizing making the most out of set piece opportunities like England.

I posted that 60 minutes link on Pulisic above, how many more of him are coming up the ranks? The piece mentioned 4M in youth soccer here, more than any other country but what do we have to show for it? So my mind is for the time being until something is done better structurally to unearth whatever talent may be lurking you do what you can with what you have at the moment. I mentioned England seems to me like a blue collar grinder type team and I kind of think that's where we are at least for near term so you have to work with that.
 
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RuSnp

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Jan 14, 2004
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England simply blew this one. They became a mistake machine after about the 70th minute and gave Croatia too many chances and that goal by Manduzic was unforgivably bad defense by England with nobody covering him off an easy to defend header-pass. Was a shame Trippier went off injured right after Vardy came on as the last sub, as the last 9 minutes without him would've been much more interesting at 11 on 11. But Croatia did create good pressure and did execute better later, so they should get some credit, although I look at this as more England losing.
IMO if you have 1 shot on goal in 120 minutes you don't deserve to win.

This team needed a healthy and in form Jack Wilshere or somebody like him. Lingard/Rashford/ Sterling/Kane not a playmaker to be seen.
 
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IMO if you have 1 shot on goal in 120 minutes you don't deserve to win.

Agree thought it was even, including when England had the lead. I didn't think they outplayed Croatia by much if anything but when Croatia tied it they pressed them big time all through the rest of regulation. I think it became a little more even again during extra time. I don't feel like England lost the game either.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
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England definitely lacked creativity in their final third. Whereas France showed a decent amount of creativity in their attack. France has looked very good, overall, especially for such a young team.

US Soccer doesn't necessarily model itself after English soccer. That would be an oversimplification of the reality which is that the style of soccer employed by any country tends to be the result of a number of different factors and influences. And they typically vary over time.

For example, go back a couple/few decades and Germany had a machine-like, boring, regimented attacking style. Probe and retreat and switch, probe and retreat and switch, endlessly until it seemed like the opposing team grew frustrated and allowed themselves to be pulled out of shape. But then, during their recent spate of international victories, they had become much more lively, more aggressive and more creative.

The lack of creativity on the US team is a combination of things. While a player's individual skills and talents are part of it, a big part of it is coaching (not just the coach of the USMNT, but also the coaches a player had when in youth soccer, or school soccer).

US Soccer has certainly had players with the skill and talent to be creative. But, while I can't know this for certain, as an outside observer, it seems to me that in general, the US teams have had creativity coached out of them. I would guess it was unintentional, more a consequence of the system of play and positional coaching than any intention to stifle creativity (which would be nuts).

In order to be creative, a player needs (a) to have enough comfort, both on and off the ball, to improvise, (b) to have the skill to do the unexpected, and (c) to have players around him who are in tune with him in a left-brained manner, and who expect the unexpected. But most of all, the attacking players have to be skilled enough to do all this against very strong defenders.

That last point is critical. If a player plays without confidence, because that player is over-matched by an opposing defender, then the attacking player is unlikely to demonstrate much creativity simply out of an appropriate degree of caution about being dispossessed at the wrong time. Or because even getting into the final third is so difficult, they become risk averse when there.

More emphasis on individual skill development at young ages (all the way up until high-school, at least), and less emphasis on tactical development would help. This is a widely understood, but rarely followed truism. I heard it constantly by the coaches who ran various coach licensing courses I took.

But in youth soccer, especially where the best competition is now found in premiere clubs (which are expensive to join, ruling out quite a lot of talent), the pressure to win, even at young ages, is very, very high. Which is completely counter-productive in terms of development. It forces coaches to prioritize coaching to win games over coaching to develop skills and understanding.

If some parent is paying 5000/year for their kid to play in a premiere club, that parent wants that kid to be winning. Otherwise, that parent will take that kid to some competing club. This is a problem, and some ODP coaches I've talked to about it know it, but are effectively powerless to do anything about it.
 
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England definitely lacked creativity in their final third. Whereas France showed a decent amount of creativity in their attack. France has looked very good, overall, especially for such a young team.

US Soccer doesn't necessarily model itself after English soccer. That would be an oversimplification of the reality which is that the style of soccer employed by any country tends to be the result of a number of different factors and influences. And they typically vary over time.

For example, go back a couple/few decades and Germany had a machine-like, boring, regimented attacking style. Probe and retreat and switch, probe and retreat and switch, endlessly until it seemed like the opposing team grew frustrated and allowed themselves to be pulled out of shape. But then, during their recent spate of international victories, they had become much more lively, more aggressive and more creative.

The lack of creativity on the US team is a combination of things. While a player's individual skills and talents are part of it, a big part of it is coaching (not just the coach of the USMNT, but also the coaches a player had when in youth soccer, or school soccer).

US Soccer has certainly had players with the skill and talent to be creative. But, while I can't know this for certain, as an outside observer, it seems to me that in general, the US teams have had creativity coached out of them. I would guess it was unintentional, more a consequence of the system of play and positional coaching than any intention to stifle creativity (which would be nuts).

In order to be creative, a player needs (a) to have enough comfort, both on and off the ball, to improvise, (b) to have the skill to do the unexpected, and (c) to have players around him who are in tune with him in a left-brained manner, and who expect the unexpected. But most of all, the attacking players have to be skilled enough to do all this against very strong defenders.

That last point is critical. If a player plays without confidence, because that player is over-matched by an opposing defender, then the attacking player is unlikely to demonstrate much creativity simply out of an appropriate degree of caution about being dispossessed at the wrong time. Or because even getting into the final third is so difficult, they become risk averse when there.

More emphasis on individual skill development at young ages (all the way up until high-school, at least), and less emphasis on tactical development would help. This is a widely understood, but rarely followed truism. I heard it constantly by the coaches who ran various coach licensing courses I took.

But in youth soccer, especially where the best competition is now found in premiere clubs (which are expensive to join, ruling out quite a lot of talent), the pressure to win, even at young ages, is very, very high. Which is completely counter-productive in terms of development. It forces coaches to prioritize coaching to win games over coaching to develop skills and understanding.

If some parent is paying 5000/year for their kid to play in a premiere club, that parent wants that kid to be winning. Otherwise, that parent will take that kid to some competing club. This is a problem, and some ODP coaches I've talked to about it know it, but are effectively powerless to do anything about it.
Good post especially for a casual fan like me who probably does oversimplify things because that's all I'm capable of as I'm seeing it from a 10000 foot level due to lack of knowledge.

I just see it as the US doesn't have a lot of skillful players with vision, feel, creativity like what you see here in basketball where you can see the guys have it. They know where they are, they know where their teammates are or will be, can anticipate, etc...There's a naturalness and flow in the way they play but we don't have that so much in our soccer players. I mean I don't even think first touches from our players are consistently good.

So since we're not so fluid or comfortable as you say and less likely to score in "open" play then I think what's the best style to generate scoring opportunities? So that's why I say on simple level a team like Sweden seems like a good overall style to emulate in the sense of try to play solid defense with opportunistic counterattacks and England in the sense of emphasizing set pieces (surprised to know teams only spend 5-20% practice time on it) to figure out ways to get your players some space to operate either in the air or on the ground like the England coach taking some principles from NFL/NBA/rugby.

I don't see this golden generation of creative, skillful US players coming up anytime soon so if that be the case you have work with the blue collar grinders as I put it and figure out ways, even if not pretty, to make it go.

Agree with you on France and said the same above. They may not be spectacular in any one area but I see them as very solid all around from offense, defense, GK. If not for Mbappe I'd probably be rooting for them more than I will be. I always need some rooting interest or find some angle in these games otherwise not as fun for me.
 
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BigTenRutgers

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Apr 1, 2018
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#clueless

TV viewership USA

2018 NBA Playoffs: 4.8M
2018 World Cup Round of 8: 4.5M
(NO night games NO Team USA)
From the Wall Street Journal, which is a slightly more reliable source than a discredited message board poster, Fox has not only lost money on the World Cup because of poor viewership, but cut its production budget for the semifinals and finals. As usual, you are proven wrong: https://www.wsj.com/articles/fox-losing-money-on-world-cup-without-u-s-team-1531311913
 

MadRU

Heisman
Jul 26, 2001
38,655
19,675
98
IMO if you have 1 shot on goal in 120 minutes you don't deserve to win.

This team needed a healthy and in form Jack Wilshere or somebody like him. Lingard/Rashford/ Sterling/Kane not a playmaker to be seen.

Ross Barkley was supposed to be that creative player but he got himself in the dog house at Everton when he demanded a transfer. He wasn't getting any regular playing time there after that, then he went to Chelsea and Conte rarely ever gave him time on the pitch. Injuries and lack of playing time hurt him immensely.
 

RuSnp

All-Conference
Jan 14, 2004
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Ross Barkley was supposed to be that creative player but he got himself in the dog house at Everton when he demanded a transfer. He wasn't getting any regular playing time there after that, then he went to Chelsea and Conte rarely ever gave him time on the pitch. Injuries and lack of playing time hurt him immensely.
Forgot about Barkley. Good mention.

I think Wilshere is still relatively young too.
 

RuSnp

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Again Harry Kane off target. Like I said I'm not impressed with him. He's okay but nothing outstanding.
Kane's a good player who has been a bit off the last few. But like every English player before and into the future, he is overrated (at least slightly) in part due to the popularity of his domestic league.
 
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Your opinion. Sterling is **** in my opinion.
Yup it is my opinion and I don't think it's even as informed as yours but I'm just commenting on his World Cup play, especially the last 3 games which of course have been against improving competition.
 
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De Bruyne with another beauty of a pass, so close.

EDIT: This Mertens for Belgium goodness, he's had miscommunication with De Bruyne twice and poor shot here. Certainly lacking sub for Lukaku.

Redeem himself a little there with solid cross for a good shot on Pickford.
 
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RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,419
44,436
113
This has been an entertaining game. Belgium could've easily had 2 more goals if Lukaku had better first touches off those gorgeous entry passes, as he would've been in alone on Pickford (who was very alert to jump out and get those balls; he also made that one outstanding save a few minutes ago).

England also came so close to a goal on the chip by Dier (I think), which went over Courtois, but was beautifully cleared off the line by the defender. They just haven't been able to make the right last pass or good cross in the box today, kind of like against Croatia. Loved Hazard's goal - possibly my favorite player to watch - so exciting with the ball.
 

MadRU

Heisman
Jul 26, 2001
38,655
19,675
98
England really needs to develop a midfield with a little class and creativity. Kane gets those balls De Bruyne slips in he gets more goals.

Dier stopped by his teammate Toby A.
 

RU848789

Heisman
Jul 27, 2001
65,419
44,436
113
England definitely lacked creativity in their final third. Whereas France showed a decent amount of creativity in their attack. France has looked very good, overall, especially for such a young team.

US Soccer doesn't necessarily model itself after English soccer. That would be an oversimplification of the reality which is that the style of soccer employed by any country tends to be the result of a number of different factors and influences. And they typically vary over time.

For example, go back a couple/few decades and Germany had a machine-like, boring, regimented attacking style. Probe and retreat and switch, probe and retreat and switch, endlessly until it seemed like the opposing team grew frustrated and allowed themselves to be pulled out of shape. But then, during their recent spate of international victories, they had become much more lively, more aggressive and more creative.

The lack of creativity on the US team is a combination of things. While a player's individual skills and talents are part of it, a big part of it is coaching (not just the coach of the USMNT, but also the coaches a player had when in youth soccer, or school soccer).

US Soccer has certainly had players with the skill and talent to be creative. But, while I can't know this for certain, as an outside observer, it seems to me that in general, the US teams have had creativity coached out of them. I would guess it was unintentional, more a consequence of the system of play and positional coaching than any intention to stifle creativity (which would be nuts).

In order to be creative, a player needs (a) to have enough comfort, both on and off the ball, to improvise, (b) to have the skill to do the unexpected, and (c) to have players around him who are in tune with him in a left-brained manner, and who expect the unexpected. But most of all, the attacking players have to be skilled enough to do all this against very strong defenders.

That last point is critical. If a player plays without confidence, because that player is over-matched by an opposing defender, then the attacking player is unlikely to demonstrate much creativity simply out of an appropriate degree of caution about being dispossessed at the wrong time. Or because even getting into the final third is so difficult, they become risk averse when there.

More emphasis on individual skill development at young ages (all the way up until high-school, at least), and less emphasis on tactical development would help. This is a widely understood, but rarely followed truism. I heard it constantly by the coaches who ran various coach licensing courses I took.

But in youth soccer, especially where the best competition is now found in premiere clubs (which are expensive to join, ruling out quite a lot of talent), the pressure to win, even at young ages, is very, very high. Which is completely counter-productive in terms of development. It forces coaches to prioritize coaching to win games over coaching to develop skills and understanding.

If some parent is paying 5000/year for their kid to play in a premiere club, that parent wants that kid to be winning. Otherwise, that parent will take that kid to some competing club. This is a problem, and some ODP coaches I've talked to about it know it, but are effectively powerless to do anything about it.
All good points, but IMO the most important point is that our best athletes still largely play football, basketball and baseball. Imagine LeBron growing up as a soccer fanatic and being either an incredible keeper or center-forward, especially on balls in the air - who'd be able to stop him in the air? Slowly, better athletes are choosing soccer, but slowly.