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OT: Mariano Rivera

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miker183

All-Conference
Sep 13, 2014
2,847
2,191
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Joe Torre suggested he be the first unanimous player inducted; I would agree.

Regardless of what team you root for, no closer has been that dominant for that kind of time frame. Smith, Eckersley were both great, but for about 2-4 years. Rivera was a different breed.

Thoughts?
 
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robwes207

All-Conference
Jan 31, 2006
683
1,126
93
I once threw it out there on the Cooperstown debate society that mariano deserves to be the first unanimous selection based on position dominance. The gap between mariano and the next best closer or closers is so much greater than the best at any other position that that alone should be enough. He pitched the toughest inning of each game and his postseason stats speak for themselves. Lets hope he gets the unanimous vote. He deserves it.
 
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RutgersUnion

Senior
Apr 15, 2006
2,843
967
113
krup said:
Guaranteed there will be a couple of dweeb sportswriters with an exaggerated sense of self-importance who will "protect the history" of the HOF by keeping him off their first year ballot.
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Votes are finally public. We should see the 1st unanimous vote finally.
 
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miker183

All-Conference
Sep 13, 2014
2,847
2,191
0
wicker said:
We should have had maybe ten unanimous guys already. Wasn't like people who skipped Mays and Aaron were holding out to vote for a relief pitcher.

Joe D didnt get in til his third year on the ballot
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All true, but every year there are great outfielders, infielders, etc. But in his career, no one was as dominant for their entire career. His situation is just so unique that if there was a first time unanimous , he should be it.
 
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Phi_1055

All-Conference
Feb 27, 2006
3,189
3,864
0
HOF voters are funny. Griffey, Seaver, Ryan and Ripken are the highest percentage vote getters all-time. I was a fan of all four of them but they don’t deserve to be at the top of the list.
 
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Yeah Baby

All-American
Aug 14, 2001
19,261
6,466
0
Phi_1055 said:
HOF voters are funny. Griffey, Seaver, Ryan and Ripken are the highest percentage vote getters all-time. I was a fan of all four of them but they don’t deserve to be at the top of the list.
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All great players and if deemed on who else was eligible at that time. Means nothing.

Agree with OP on Sandman
 
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RUBubba

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2002
4,982
2,729
113
There are a few idiot voters that won't vote for any first time eligible players.

There are also a few idiot voters that won't vote for someone guaranteed to get in and instead vote for a player to try to keep them on the ballot another year.

But yeah, so player was as dominant at his position for such a period of time as Mo.
 
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RUDave_01

All-Conference
Dec 8, 2002
1,759
2,055
113
While there were others certainly deserving of being unanimous, if you had to do away with the silly tradition (if you can call it that), Mo would be an excellent place to start. Not only was he incredibly brilliant for nearly 20 years, he was the closer the for almost that entire time (unlike some pitchers who convert to being relievers or hitters who switch positions or become a DH).

It may not count for much, but he was one of the most well liked players of his era. Team after team honored him in his last stop at their city, not to mention the opposing fans.

As for those voters... I know you can't do it from a practical perspective, but it would be good to punish them if they vote against someone clearly deserving just to keep the stupid tradition alive (maybe a couple of year suspension from voting once a certain threshold, like 98%, is hit).
 
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Retired711

Heisman
Nov 20, 2001
19,971
10,151
58
mdk01 said:
No. The closest is Ken Griffey Jr. with 437 1st place votes out of 440 received.
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Ruth didn't have to wait five years. He was inducted in 1936, the year the Hall of Fame opened, and just a year after his career ended.
 
WhiteBus

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,520
21,922
113
RutgersUnion said:
Votes are finally public. We should see the 1st unanimous vote finally.
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That doesn't change things at all. We had two writers this year who made stupid votes just to be "that" guy and get attention in the post season awards. Some clown didn't vote deGrom for Cy Young and another voted for him as MVP. They were both on many sports shows for days.
 
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S

SkilletHead2

All-American
Sep 30, 2005
24,458
9,296
113
He was very good for a whole lot of years. Clearly deserves to be a first ballot HOF. First unanimous? No way. Only led the league in saves three times. His record number of saves is mostly attributable to being a closer on a team with tons of wins for 18 years. Only cracked the top ten for MVP three times. No Cy Youngs.

HOF yes. Unanimous? Let's save that won for somebody who dominated his position and won some MVPs.
 
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Tango Two

Tango Two

Heisman
Aug 21, 2001
58,908
37,734
78
miker183 said:
Joe Torre suggested he be the first unanimous player inducted; I would agree.

Regardless of what team you root for, no closer has been that dominant for that kind of time frame. Smith, Eckersley were both great, but for about 2-4 years. Rivera was a different breed.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...


NOT unanimous because of:

 
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A

Andy117

Senior
Jan 2, 2013
1,039
739
0
SkilletHead2 said:
He was very good for a whole lot of years. Clearly deserves to be a first ballot HOF. First unanimous? No way. Only led the league in saves three times. His record number of saves is mostly attributable to being a closer on a team with tons of wins for 18 years. Only cracked the top ten for MVP three times. No Cy Youngs.

HOF yes. Unanimous? Let's save that won for somebody who dominated his position and won some MVPs.
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He's the best closer ever, but in terms of importance on a team closer isn't close to the top. Position players and ace starters are far more valuable.
 
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T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
28,180
17,566
0
SkilletHead2 said:
First unanimous? No way. Only led the league in saves three times. His record number of saves is mostly attributable to being a closer on a team with tons of wins for 18 years. Only cracked the top ten for MVP three times. No Cy Youngs.

HOF yes. Unanimous? Let's save that won for somebody who dominated his position and won some MVPs.
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[roll][roll][roll]
Dumbest post of the thread. Who is the second best closer of all-time and let's compare the gap to the gap of other positions? He is the most dominant player at his position in MLB history.
 
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T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
28,180
17,566
0
Andy117 said:
He's the best closer ever, but in terms of importance on a team closer isn't close to the top. Position players and ace starters are far more valuable.
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Starters are becoming less and less valuable. Some teams aren't even using starters any more for some game.
 
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SkilletHead2

All-American
Sep 30, 2005
24,458
9,296
113
T2Kplus10 said:
[roll][roll][roll]
Dumbest post of the thread. Who is the second best closer of all-time and let's compare the gap to the gap of other positions? He is the most dominant player at his position in MLB history.
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He's a relief pitcher who was "one of the best" for a long time. Dominant? How many times did he lead the league in his entire 18 year career? Three times. A whoop de meh do!

Relief pitching is the long snapping of baseball.
 
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ScarletNYC

All-Conference
Jul 31, 2008
10,471
1,488
113
SkilletHead2 said:
He's a relief pitcher who was "one of the best" for a long time. Dominant? How many times did he lead the league in his entire 18 year career? Three times. A whoop de meh do!

Relief pitching is the long snapping of baseball.
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What a stupid argument. You can only get saves when the situation present itself. Save percentage is way more important.
 
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SkilletHead2

All-American
Sep 30, 2005
24,458
9,296
113
ScarletNYC said:
What a stupid argument. You can only get saves when the situation present itself. Save percentage is way more important.
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Yawn. Hoffman and Rivera are practically indistinguishable on save percentage. See if you can come up with something better.
 
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RutgersUnion

Senior
Apr 15, 2006
2,843
967
113
WhiteBus said:
That doesn't change things at all. We had two writers this year who made stupid votes just to be "that" guy and get attention in the post season awards. Some clown didn't vote deGrom for Cy Young and another voted for him as MVP. They were both on many sports shows for days.
Click to expand...

Doesn't change things "at all"? Out of the 422 voters this year I could confidently say that more then a couple thought about it. At minimum it will create more dialogue with regard to how voting is/should be done.

Also, Cy Young voting isn't done the same as HOF. With HOF you either vote for someone or you dont. Cy Young is a ranking and I think you misunderstood what happened this year with deGrom. One of the voters ranked Scherzer ahead of deGrom but that doesn't mean deGrom didn't get a vote.
 
WhiteBus

WhiteBus

Heisman
Oct 4, 2011
39,520
21,922
113
RutgersUnion said:
Doesn't change things "at all"? Out of the 422 voters this year I could confidently say that more then a couple thought about it. At minimum it will create more dialogue with regard to how voting is/should be done.

Also, Cy Young voting isn't done the same as HOF. With HOF you either vote for someone or you dont. Cy Young is a ranking and I think you misunderstood what happened this year with deGrom. One of the voters ranked Scherzer ahead of deGrom but that doesn't mean deGrom didn't get a vote.
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I understood it 100%. One guy wanted to make a name for himself. And everyone knew who he was.
 
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BigEastPhil

Heisman
Nov 25, 2007
19,274
13,509
66
Interesting question. Certainly dominant in his role; extended tenure etc. Can see it happening but I don't think it will. Some of his blown saves are very memorable such as Game 7 - 2001 WS vs Arizona; Games 4 and 5 vs Red Sox in 2004 ALCS and 1997 ALDS vs Indians.

If there is a going to be a unanmious selection, maybe the traditionalist in me would prefer to see an everyday dominant player such as a Mike Trout but certainly Mariano - as classy as they are - can achieve this.
 
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Retired711

Heisman
Nov 20, 2001
19,971
10,151
58
I find it simply bizarre to compare an excellent relief pitcher with a long snapper. You'd see what I mean if you follow a team, like the Phillies,with a poor or poorly-run bullpen.
 
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T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
28,180
17,566
0
SkilletHead2 said:
Yawn. Hoffman and Rivera are practically indistinguishable on save percentage. See if you can come up with something better.
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Comparing Hoffman and Mo = [roll]
Ask any MLB GM their preference during their careers. Let me help you, it would be unanimous, just like the HOF vote should be.
 
C

Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,422
18,876
113
Certified 100% Yankee hater here. Always thought Hoffman didn't get the credit he deserved and should have been in on the first ballot.
All that being said Mariano is the greatest RP of all time and so much better then anyone else. Should be unanimous.

p.s.Just a few years ago they cut the number of years to be eligible for the ballot from 15 to 10. Personally I think it should be 3. You're a Hall of Famer or you aren't. Shouldn't depend on who is on the ballot in a given year.

p.p.s. Rivera deserves to be unanimous. Jeter does not.
 
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Colbert17!

Heisman
Aug 30, 2014
17,422
18,876
113
BigEastPhil said:
Interesting question. Certainly dominant in his role; extended tenure etc. Can see it happening but I don't think it will. Some of his blown saves are very memorable such as Game 7 - 2001 WS vs Arizona; Games 4 and 5 vs Red Sox in 2004 ALCS and 1997 ALDS vs Indians.

If there is a going to be a unanmious selection, maybe the traditionalist in me would prefer to see an everyday dominant player such as a Mike Trout but certainly Mariano - as classy as they are - can achieve this.
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I was at Opening Day in Fenway in 2005, Yankees-Red Sox for the WC banner unfurling.
PA announcer was introducing the squads and when he introduced Rivera the crowd gave him a standing ovation based on those blown saves in 2004.
Mariano, being the class act he is, just laughed and tipped his hat to the crowd.
 
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T2Kplus10

Heisman
Feb 24, 2010
28,180
17,566
0
colbert17 said:
Certified 100% Yankee hater here. Always thought Hoffman didn't get the credit he deserved and should have been in on the first ballot.
All that being said Mariano is the greatest RP of all time and so much better then anyone else. Should be unanimous.

p.s.Just a few years ago they cut the number of years to be eligible for the ballot from 15 to 10. Personally I think it should be 3. You're a Hall of Famer or you aren't. Shouldn't depend on who is on the ballot in a given year.

p.p.s. Rivera deserves to be unanimous. Jeter does not.
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I'm fine with Mo getting 100% and Jeter getting 98%.
 
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