OT: Judge/Alonso

[Mikemarc]

You DO know what the word "never" means, right ?

Yes.

 

[Mikemarc]

An MVP from last year gets injured by running into a wall to save a game win or by diving for a ball .....and you classify him as "most over rated in MLB" but another former MVP on the same team guy making $32m a year who is always injured and can't even play the field regularly and is hitting 0.190 you are silent on? Your so called argument is fng stupid.

Stanton is too..we weren’t talking about him so I didn’t think to bring him up

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

Stanton is too..we weren’t talking about him so I didn’t think to bring him up

Clearly he didn't understand the title of the thread,lol

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

An MVP from last year gets injured by running into a wall to save a game win or by diving for a ball .....and you classify him as "most over rated in MLB" but another former MVP on the same team guy making $32m a year who is always injured and can't even play the field regularly and is hitting 0.190 you are silent on? Your so called argument is fng stupid.

Players have been running into walls and driving for balls since baseball was invented, get hurt, don't get hurt, your point is? He's a stiff out there and should only DH if they want to get a full year out of him. Oh he gets a pass because he didn't get hurt in 2 years of a 7 year career, Rookie season and contract season, that's it. He'll never win another MVP if he doesn't stay on the field and the betting man would say he won't.

 

[Mufasa94]

I'll take Pete. Better run producer and STAYS on the field!…

There is the paradox due to the difference in each player’s durability.

Based on runs produced per game played, Judge produces at a better rate, that is just a fact. Based on runs produced per full seasons (for each player excluding the extremely shortened 2020), Alonso has produced a higher season average.

 

[yesrutgers01]

There is the paradox due to the difference in each player’s durability.

Based on runs produced per game played, Judge produces at a better rate, that is just a fact. Based on runs produced per full seasons (for each player excluding the extremely shortened 2020), Alonso has produced a higher season average.

they are almost exactly the same on runs produced. Judge slightly ahead. Judge produces a run ever 3.9 ABs and Pete is every 4.1 ABs
AJ 1.1 runs produced per game vs 1.04 runs produced per game for Pete.

So- regardless of health- production per game and per AB is the same- those are facts. Both are hitting at very elite levels equally. So now- the player who is on the field more is actually the more valuable hitter.
Judge is better fielder and runner. But as a hitter they are completely equal. as investments, Pete has a higher value.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Clearly he didn't understand the title of the thread,lol

So tell me genius, regardless of the thread title.....how do you make this type of denigrating statement without considering other players?

One of the most overrated players in baseball

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Stanton is too..we weren’t talking about him so I didn’t think to bring him up

Your statement compared Judge to the rest of MLB. Why wouldn't you consider other players? Or do you just like to denigrate guys who get injured for sport?

Was Mattingly one of the most overrated in MLB because his back deteriorated?

Ps....you've been on this anti-Judge crusade for years. Interesting that you were so quiet last season.

 

[Mikemarc]

So tell me genius, regardless of the thread title.....how do you make this type of denigrating statement without considering other players?

Never admitted to being a genius..but thanks for that lol.

I certainly considered other players, but again since this thread was about Judge (and Alonso) I made my thoughts about Judge on here.

 

[Mikemarc]

Your statement compared Judge to the rest of MLB. Why wouldn't you consider other players? Or do you just like to denigrate guys who get injured for sport?

Was Mattingly one of the most overrated in MLB because his back deteriorated?

Ps....you've been on this anti-Judge crusade for years. Interesting that you were so quiet last season.

What do you mean “considered”??? Saying he’s “one of” the most overrated.. I figured it was obviously other players are in his category too. Again, didn’t think to name them here since this thread is about Judge. But I’d include Luis Robert, Will Smith, Stanton, Bryce Harper and Trea Turner..just to name a few..as others who are overrated.

And to answer your question about Mattingly, I was much too young to form an opinion of him as a player.

 

[Kbee3]

Yes.

I'm not so sure.

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

There's a poster on this board whose father famously said "It ain't over 'til it's over".
I'll go with that.

Getting Judge back and leading you to the Promised Land was a nice thought but the Yankees had a worse record with Herman back in the fold.I get the fact that you and Cashman felt being buyers was the way to go but you're a little late to the party, that "it ain't over till it's over" is well, OVER.

 

[Mufasa94]

they are almost exactly the same on runs produced. Judge slightly ahead. Judge produces a run ever 3.9 ABs and Pete is every 4.1 ABs
AJ 1.1 runs produced per game vs 1.04 runs produced per game for Pete.

So- regardless of health- production per game and per AB is the same- those are facts….

The 1.10 and 1.04 per game rate being “the same” is an opinion, not a fact. The difference is 10 runs produced in a 150 games played season. That is significant for a years-long average that spans peak playing years (also an opinion).

The oddity is that when this season is finished, Alonso will have been around that 150 games played mark for more seasons than Judge despite having a shorter career.

With their respective ages and injury history, I would not be surprised to see Alonso put up higher career numbers when they are done playing.

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

The 1.10 and 1.04 per game rate being “the same” is an opinion, not a fact. The difference is 10 runs produced in a 150 games played season. That is significant for a years-long average that spans peak playing years (also an opinion).

The oddity is that when this season is finished, Alonso will have been around that 150 games played mark for more seasons than Judge despite having a shorter career.

With their respective ages and injury history, I would not be surprised to see Alonso put up higher career numbers when they are done playing.

That would be a pretty good bet I think. That 10 year contract the Yankees saddled themselves with on Judge was based on him being an elite CF/RF, not a mostly DH which I feel is in his very near and current future. Way over paid because San Fran was calling and marketing helped sway the Yankees. In 3 years, Yankees fans will be treating Judge as Stanton 2.0. As another old time poster used to say, "Take it to the bank".

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Never admitted to being a genius..but thanks for that lol.

I certainly considered other players, but again since this thread was about Judge (and Alonso) I made my thoughts about Judge on here.

The response was not to you. As indicated, you've been anti Judge for years and seem to only care about your agenda.

"Too young" answer about Mattingly is a cop out. What are you, 15 years old? Explains a lot then about your opinion. Baseball is a timeless game of stats comparison. No reason for you not to have an opinion on him. My opinion is that how a player is rated comes down to performance when on the field and not injuries.

Is Ohtani now overrated because of his elbow? Is Nick Chubb overrated because a guy dove into his knee and obliterated it? Guys get injured, its the nature of playing sports. If you played anything at any level, you should realize that.

 

[Mikemarc]

The response was not to you. As indicated, you've been anti Judge for years and seem to only care about your agenda.

"Too young" answer about Mattingly is a cop out. What are you, 15 years old? Explains a lot then about your opinion. Baseball is a timeless game of stats comparison. No reason for you not to have an opinion on him. My opinion is that how a player is rated comes down to performance when on the field and not injuries.

Is Ohtani now overrated because of his elbow? Is Nick Chubb overrated because a guy dove into his knee and obliterated it? Guys get injured, its the nature of playing sports. If you played anything at any level, you should realize that.

No. Mattingly retired when I was 11 and I certainly don’t remember enough about him to form an opinion. Sorry.

And I’m not going to compare people just on stats. To me it’s about the eye test.

I totally understand guys get injured. Do you understand guys are more injury prone than other guys?

 

[RUInsanityToo]

No. Mattingly retired when I was 11 and I certainly don’t remember enough about him to form an opinion. Sorry.

And I’m not going to compare people just on stats. To me it’s about the eye test.

I totally understand guys get injured. Do you understand guys are more injury prone than other guys?

Did you not watch baseball as a kid? At 11 years old I knew every Yankee, my brothers and I could even go through every uniform number past from past to that present day and knew the players.

"Injury prone" to me is a cop out for fans, media and talk radio types. Injuries tend to be circumstantial. Not intimately knowing a player and their pain threshold, it is all just conjecture. My understanding from researching is that Judge has played through significant pain at times (i.e. cracked ribs). Also - **** happens....for instance if a player is hit by a pitch and ends up with a broken wrist (happened toJudge) is he injury prone?

 

[RU Diesel07110]

Anybody going to mention BA or fielding ? Pete’s hitting 210 and couldn’t catch crabs in a Ho House.
Btw I do like Pete the guy they should dump is Lindor.

 

[Mikemarc]

Did you not watch baseball as a kid? At 11 years old I knew every Yankee, my brothers and I could even go through every uniform number past from past to that present day and knew the players.

"Injury prone" to me is a cop out for fans, media and talk radio types. Injuries tend to be circumstantial. Not intimately knowing a player and their pain threshold, it is all just conjecture. My understanding from researching is that Judge has played through significant pain at times (i.e. cracked ribs). Also - **** happens....for instance if a player is hit by a pitch and ends up with a broken wrist (happened toJudge) is he injury prone?

I certainly watched the Yankees as a kid. I can’t remember games from earlier this season and you want me to remember and rate a player from 30+ years ago. Not gonna happen. Sorry.

I can of course look at his stats…but like I said I’m more of an eye test person…

I wouldn’t consider a career .300+ hitter overrated..to answer your question.

I certainly think “injury prone” is a real thing. Lots of people say Judge’s size works against him and makes his body more prone to injuries.

 

[WhiteBus]

Did you not watch baseball as a kid? At 11 years old I knew every Yankee, my brothers and I could even go through every uniform number past from past to that present day and knew the players.

"Injury prone" to me is a cop out for fans, media and talk radio types. Injuries tend to be circumstantial. Not intimately knowing a player and their pain threshold, it is all just conjecture. My understanding from researching is that Judge has played through significant pain at times (i.e. cracked ribs). Also - **** happens....for instance if a player is hit by a pitch and ends up with a broken wrist (happened toJudge) is he injury prone?

Forget it. He is just an idiot looking for an argument. Knows nothing about sports. Cries he was too young at 11 to know Mattingly??? I can understand 5/6 but 11? Embarrassing laughable. He doesn't know the meaning of injury prone. How is getting hit by a pitch or the Dodgers not locking the fence related to being injury prone? He is just a Judge hater. No logic to his arguments. Just a hater.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

No. Mattingly retired when I was 11 and I certainly don’t remember enough about him to form an opinion. Sorry.

And I’m not going to compare people just on stats. To me it’s about the eye test.

I totally understand guys get injured. Do you understand guys are more injury prone than other guys?

One more thing - if it's about the eye test for you, what exactly is showing you that you feel Judge is among the most over-rated in MLB? The guy can play all 3 outfield positions, goes pretty much balls to the walls in the OF, has a cannon for an arm, runs the bases well, does not dog it when running out of the box, and has played through injuries. That does not even take into account his stats. He hits for very good average, has close to a .400 lifetime OBP, hits the ball a mile. Yes he strikes out a lot, but also leads his team in most offensive categories. Not sure how that equates to over-rated just because he gets injured - mostly by going all out while on the field.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Forget it. He is just an idiot looking for an argument. Knows nothing about sports. Cries he was too young at 11 to know Mattingly??? I can understand 5/6 but 11? Embarrassing laughable. Hello doesn't know the meaning of injury. How is getting hit by a pitch or the Dodgers not locking the fence related to being injury prone? He is just a Judge hater. No logic to his arguments. Just a hater.

Agree - makes no sense.

 

[Mikemarc]

One more thing - if it's about the eye test for you, what exactly is showing you that you feel Judge is among the most over-rated in MLB? The guy can play all 3 outfield positions, goes pretty much balls to the walls in the OF, has a cannon for an arm, runs the bases well, does not dog it when running out of the box, and has played through injuries. That does not even take into account his stats. He hits for very good average, has close to a .400 lifetime OBP, hits the ball a mile. Yes he strikes out a lot, but also leads his team in most offensive categories. Not sure how that equates to over-rated just because he gets injured - mostly by going all out while on the field.

Terrible in the clutch (his first walk of HR was last year)….way too many strikeouts.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

I certainly watched the Yankees as a kid. I can’t remember games from earlier this season and you want me to remember and rate a player from 30+ years ago. Not gonna happen. Sorry.

I can of course look at his stats…but like I said I’m more of an eye test person…

I wouldn’t consider a career .300+ hitter overrated..to answer your question.

I certainly think “injury prone” is a real thing. Lots of people say Judge’s size works against him and makes his body more prone to injuries.

Were you are a Yankee or even a baseball fan? It wasn't just "a player" it was Mattingly, the captain, the "Hit Man". He was not only the best player on the team, but among the best in baseball, also pretty much carried an otherwise unremarkable roster. For instance, I even remember watching every one of his 8 consecutive homer game streak. Hard to believe you follow MLB and don't know this.

 

[Mikemarc]

Forget it. He is just an idiot looking for an argument. Knows nothing about sports. Cries he was too young at 11 to know Mattingly??? I can understand 5/6 but 11? Embarrassing laughable. He doesn't know the meaning of injury prone. How is getting hit by a pitch or the Dodgers not locking the fence related to being injury prone? He is just a Judge hater. No logic to his arguments. Just a hater.

I know enough about baseball to have had a job in the league office for 7 years.

Just have a different opinion on the guy then you guys do. All good, what makes sports good. We can have a fun debate..and our opinions mean squat. So not sure why you seem so up in arms…it’s sports, have fun with it.

 

[Mikemarc]

Were you are a Yankee or even a baseball fan? It wasn't just "a player" it was Mattingly, the captain, the "Hit Man". He was not only the best player on the team, but among the best in baseball, also pretty much carried an otherwise unremarkable roster. For instance, I even remember watching every one of his 8 consecutive homer game streak. Hard to believe you follow MLB and don't know this.

I was 3 at the time of his 8 home run streak. Sorry but I don’t remember that…though I’ve certainly heard of it and watched replays.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

Terrible in the clutch (his first walk of HR was last year)….way too many strikeouts.

His clutch stats say otherwise. Also - lots of players have high strikeout ratios these days as the game has changed in case you have not been paying attention. Is he perfect - certainly not, for instance he needs to prove himself in the playoffs. But as a guy who worked "in the League office" for 7 years, I would think stats would mean something as would the history of the game and understanding and being able to assess players like Mattingly.

 

[Mikemarc]

His clutch stats say otherwise. Also - lots of players have high strikeout ratios these days as the game has changed in case you have not been paying attention. Is he perfect - certainly not, for instance he needs to prove himself in the playoffs. But as a guy who worked "in the League office" for 7 years, I would think stats would mean something as would the history of the game and understanding and being able to assess players like Mattingly.

would you say Mattingly is a better Yankee than Judge so far in his career?

 

[AshCatchEm]

Why Alonso plates alot more runners than Judge. Take away Covid year and Alonso has 4 big years and was on pace for another big year during covid year. That dude is a beast.

I mean take away their positions too if you're gonna stand by this moronic take because it's the only way these guys are even remotely comparable.

 

[Mikemarc]

And just so we’re all on the same page..I’m in no way saying Judge isn’t good. He’s a very good player.

But MLB ranked him as the 2nd best player in all of baseball…

There’s probably 10 players I’d currently take over him..hence why I say he’s very overrated.

 

[WhiteBus]

I know enough about baseball to have had a job in the league office for 7 years.

Just have a different opinion on the guy then you guys do. All good, what makes sports good. We can have a fun debate..and our opinions mean squat. So not sure why you seem so up in arms…it’s sports, have fun with it.

I know people who work in my industry and know zero about it. There are many jobs where you don't have to be an expert. I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers, accountants, IT people that work for MLB that are baseball illiterate.
To use the excuse you don't know about Mattingly because you were too young (at 11) tells me all I need to know about your lack of baseball knowledge.

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

Did you not watch baseball as a kid? At 11 years old I knew every Yankee, my brothers and I could even go through every uniform number past from past to that present day and knew the players.

"Injury prone" to me is a cop out for fans, media and talk radio types. Injuries tend to be circumstantial. Not intimately knowing a player and their pain threshold, it is all just conjecture. My understanding from researching is that Judge has played through significant pain at times (i.e. cracked ribs). Also - **** happens....for instance if a player is hit by a pitch and ends up with a broken wrist (happened toJudge) is he injury prone?

I know people who work in my industry and know zero about it. There are many jobs where you don't have to be an expert. I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers, accountants, IT people that work for MLB that are baseball illiterate.
To use the excuse you don't know about Mattingly because you were too young (at 11) tells me all I need to know about your lack of baseball knowledge.

Would your industry be ex bar owner?

 

[Mikemarc]

I know people who work in my industry and know zero about it. There are many jobs where you don't have to be an expert. I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers, accountants, IT people that work for MLB that are baseball illiterate.
To use the excuse you don't know about Mattingly because you were too young (at 11) tells me all I need to know about your lack of baseball knowledge.

I never claimed I was an “expert”..but you said I know nothing about sports. And I claimed I certainly do,

I’ve worked in the sports media industry for 20 years, 7 within MLB and yes, it did require a baseball quiz to apply and another in order to get an offer. So I’d kindly ask to please stop making judgements about me…someone you know nothing about.

Do people have more baseball knowledge than me? Of course.

Let’s get back to debating baseball?!

 

[Kbee3]

Did you not watch baseball as a kid? At 11 years old I knew every Yankee, my brothers and I could even go throug hased Babe Ruth'sh every uniform number past from past to that present day and knew the players.

"Injury prone" to me is a cop out for fans, media and talk radio types. Injuries tend to be circumstantial. Not intimately knowing a player and their pain threshold, it is all just conjecture. My understanding from researching is that Judge has played through significant pain at times (i.e. cracked ribs). Also - **** happens....for instance if a player is hit by a pitch and ends up with a broken wrist (happened toJudge) is he injury prone?

As an 11 year old Mantle fan in 1961 , me and my cousin (a Maris fan) would go back and forth on a daily basis as Roger and the injury-prone Mick chased Babe Ruth's home run record. Unfortunately an injury caught up with Mantle and Maris had to finish the pursuit of Babe's iconic record by himself.
I was devasted.

 

[WhiteBus]

Would your industry be ex bar owner?

Never owned a bar. Never would either. Tough business, long hours. I am the listed owner of a Pennsylvania R License (restaurant), a Requirement of the PLCB Code. It allows me to purchase alcohol products from the state, distributors, breweries and PA only vineyards for the purpose of reselling the alcohol products to retail customers.

 

[yesrutgers01]

The 1.10 and 1.04 per game rate being “the same” is an opinion, not a fact. The difference is 10 runs produced in a 150 games played season. That is significant for a years-long average that spans peak playing years (also an opinion).

The oddity is that when this season is finished, Alonso will have been around that 150 games played mark for more seasons than Judge despite having a shorter career.

With their respective ages and injury history, I would not be surprised to see Alonso put up higher career numbers when they are done playing.

6 runs...and that difference could catch up very quickly. seeing how we have games like yesterday where Pete drives in runs without a HR
But my real point is when you are talking producing runs- it is very close. And I already said they are 2 great/elite hitters. And while Judge is actually a little better- it is not that much better to justify taking him with all his injuries over Pete.
If you take Judge's pre rookie season and 2020 out for both players
Alonso averages 27 more games played 4 more HR and 19 more runs produced per year
So- using your take above- that would mean that over a 15 year career
Pete has 40 more Career HR and 190 more Runs produced.

 

[Mufasa94]

6 runs...and that difference could catch up very quickly…

6 would be based on a 100 games played timeframe. Do not disagree about the full (MLB) seasons.

I’m not trying to make the case for/against either. Alonso has been more reliable, Judge has had higher peaks. One/both may end up in the HOF.

Unless it is in a washed up Amos Otis/jogging George Hendrick stage of career, neither will ever play for the Pirates, so it doesn’t impact me.

 

[greenknight]

I’m with you on this one. And this year’s injury doesn’t count.
But, investment wise, it does make for a risk. But to say overrated- that is not correct.

Investment wise he is overrated. Hes hurt more than hes healthy. The Yanks are banking on making alot of money on Aaron Judge the name not the player. Hes 31 now will be 32 prior to next season. He is in his prime 2yrs from now he will no longer be in his prime. It was a beyond stupid contract. 6 or 7 yrs of his contract will be beyond his prime years on an oft hurt player. Based on his size & strength will he be able to still be able bang out 40 hrs a year after age 35 yeah he's a freak but not if health is an issue or age catches up to him.
The Yanks better have a plan in place for full time 1B or DH or they will lose big on contract

I'll add onto the above. The Yanks didnt have to sign him to a huge contract prior to his 62 HR year he was hurt alot and you have the covid year. They woul have save alot of money if he didnt hit 62 in his FA year. They would have gotten nothing for him if they didnt empty their wallets. This is no different than a stock trade...take all emotion out of the transaction. Take all emotion out of A Judge 2 yrs ago and a trade would have brought them at least 3 foundation players.

 

[greenknight]

I think that Stanton has just become a “oh well” regardless of anything else. There is no argument or discussion to be had.
Worst signing/contract of all time

The Yankees have alot of worst signings of all time. Personally on Stanton after he got beaned in face I think he was a no sign for that money. Inthink history has proven you are never the same player. If the Yankees were going to give Judge a 10 year mega bomb contract that they gave Judge should have been in age range of 27-28. Not starting at age 31. I'll say again the Yankees didnt want to sign him to that contract but after last year they got boxed into corner personally think they should have traded him. St Louis got the most out of Pujols and Angel's were on hook for his huge contract. Judge is not the hitter Pujols is. There are only a handful that were

 

[RUInsanityToo]

The Yankees have alot of worst signings of all time. Personally on Stanton after he got beaned in face I think he was a no sign for that money. Inthink history has proven you are never the same player. If the Yankees were going to give Judge a 10 year mega bomb contract that they gave Judge should have been in age range of 27-28. Not starting at age 31. I'll say again the Yankees didnt want to sign him to that contract but after last year they got boxed into corner personally think they should have traded him. St Louis got the most out of Pujols and Angel's were on hook for his huge contract. Judge is not the hitter Pujols is. There are only a handful that were

While I think it's reasonable to say that Judge's contract will be a burden - especially in out years, I think that this is off the original thread point of Judge vs. Alonso. The entire thread has become like a "bash" Judge fest spurred on by 2008 who based on his posts and avatar appears to be into spreading the trolling and hate sentiment divide on this forum. Perhaps wait and see what contract Alonso ends up with and then make the comparison.