OT: Can we talking re-openings and markets without locking the thread

[57stratdawg]

McDonald's can operate profitability without the millions (billions?) of dollars in labor subsidies they're receiving. This isn't some emerging technology that could benefit society long-term; they're selling hamburgers.

For the record, I don't blame McDonalds for taking the handouts. Same for Walmart, Amazon, etc.

 

[johnson86-1]

You make conservatives look bad, bro. Stop trying to toss that tea.

I saw a guy on facebook the other day literally saying the government was screwing him because his quarterly taxes were due. Oh the horror.

Well, his government was almost certainly screwing him. Maybe not because his quarterly taxes were due; I don't know his tax situation. But at least while his quarterly taxes were due.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'll one up you. I agreed with a Bennie Thompson tweet within the last two weeks. I had to do some serious soul searching on that one.

 

[mstateglfr]

I've now agreed with goat on 2 posts. I'm going to take some time off to think about some things.

I too am very uncomfortable with what is happening in this thread. It is confusing me and I need to step away for a moment.

 

[johnson86-1]

There’s rumbling of Q3 fed move but I doubt it. Monetary policy is part political now so they’ll overheat first before raising. Plus inflation is needed for this 30T debt. Btw #buybitcoin!!!

Inflation doesn't help with debt when you are still borrowing money hand over fist.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'm 100% ignorant about what subsidies McDonald's gets. A quick search yields:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwor...-wages-by-1-2-billion-a-year/?sh=5c3678b42073 AND

https://www.salon.com/2020/12/12/go...dizing-starvation-wages-at-mcdonalds-walmart/

some decent perspective in both

 

[PirateDawg]

Hello McFly! Why do you think companies go to automation????

Placing the blame on the decline of manufacturing jobs solely on the shoulders of unions without mentioning automation is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[dorndawg]

Hello McFly! Why do you think companies go to automation????

The same reason companies do most things: to increase profits.

 

[PirateDawg]

On this we agree. Let the local elected officials respond to their constituents. Just remember that the repercussions ripple across the US. McDonald's in California has already moved to more automation. Nobody takes your order anymore. You order at a kiosk and some of the cooking is automated. As a result we will see more automation at McDonald's going forward because once they replace personnel they can move it to more locations.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I too am very uncomfortable with what is happening in this thread. It is confusing me and I need to step away for a moment.

^^ doesn't realize I am bipolar

 

[aTotal360]

I wonder if it's a game played the employees. Work just enough to get SNAP plus your paycheck.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

McDonald's can operate profitability without the millions (billions?) of dollars in labor subsidies they're receiving. This isn't some emerging technology that could benefit society long-term; they're selling hamburgers.

For the record, I don't blame McDonalds for taking the handouts. Same for Walmart, Amazon, etc.

I'd rather people be working and get subsidies, rather than not working and getting bigger subsidies.

The big corporations are just taking advantage of the situation. They aren't causing it. The subsidies are going to happen one way or another, because the people demand them, and this country is rich enough to give them.

If we stopped giving them, we'd waste the money on something else. It all circulates. I don't get why people get so worked up on what the government wastes its money on (unless it's overseas stuff, but our own citizens do that).

 

[PirateDawg]

Walmart moved employees to part time to get around insurance requirements with ObamaCare. Hire more employees and cut their time to get out of paying benefits. That is the newest model for improving profit.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

White collar; increase efficiency and put your best humans to work on more meaningful tasks. Ideally payroll neutral, largely because it's hard to find talent.

Blue collar; increase efficiency by replacing workers performing menial tasks with robots. Reduces headcount, increases the need for skilled labor that can maintain and operate robotics. Payroll reduction.

ETA: both cases should increase profits

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I wouldn't call it a "game". There may be some who play it that way, but most are just trying to survive. Most of what I've seen is that it is very challenging to see how you can overcome the gap immediately after you see your subsidies (food, housing, whatever) decrease. Your wages are better, but not enough to make up the difference. And it is not as if you were living high on the hog to begin with. It's scary; sometimes too scary to try.

The same line of thinking comes into play, but in reverse, for the rich guy at the end of the year as he tries to figure out how much money he needs to be "charitable" with to minimize his tax burden.

 

[Go Budaw]

You should go back and read the part you bolded. I mean, ideally read the entire post if you're going to respond to it, but certainly you should read the part you bolded.

I have read it. Genuinely, I’m trying to understand what you are establishing as the legal relationship between an employee’s actual productivity relative to their paycheck. Just seems like the specific use of the word “illegal” does not compute in the context at all. “Irresponsible” or “fiscally wreckless” seem like more applicable terms.

That’s without even getting into the can of worms that “value” from an employee is highly subjective, and dependent on multiple variables even for menial jobs, anyway. Therefore its almost impossible to ascertain to any degree of certainty. Punctuality, reliability, flexibility, communication skills, along with of course general output all go into what makes one valuable or not so valuable, to a varying extent for each depending on any given job or position.

 

[aTotal360]

For sure. And yes, both sides are playing the game.

 

[mstateglfr]

Walmart moved employees to part time to get around insurance requirements with ObamaCare. Hire more employees and cut their time to get out of paying benefits. That is the newest model for improving profit.

It isnt just Walmart and that is quite pathetic to do as a large profit corporation. Its what happens when management's main/only goal is to maximize profits and they have leverage over their workforce. When companies seek to maximize profits within the context of multiple accepted employment costs, the workforce tends to turn over less frequently and service improves. But Walmart(and some others) know this and choose to prioritize ultimate profits instead.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

for the long haul, you should want microsoft and amazon. Apple lost its innovation with Jobs. Microsoft and Amazon have much more diverse revenue streams.

over the last 3 years aapl has a better return than those - there's also the looming car which will be a game changer

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

Looks like it weant to zero late in 2020. Perhaps all the stockholders at that time got nothing in the restructuring, and they basically started over. Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about how businesses and bankruptcy work.

probably a reverse split

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Unions being entrenched on salaries and benefits that were unsustainable and not representative of the value of the position are a big reason that many auto plants now exist (albeit with more automation and fewer workers to do the same work) in states that are employment at will with very low union participation rates. It's very difficult to unwind benefits and pay as a union head. So better stated, automation was a huge contributor to it taking fewer people to make cars. Union greed and inflexibility is a huge factor in why new car plants are popping up in TN, AL, MS, etc. If it weren't for unions, auto makers could've probably more easily built new plants in what is now the rust belt because labor and logistics were already there. They didn't do that.

It has nothing to do with their pay being "unsustainable and not representative of the value of the position". If that were the case, why would management have ever started paying them that to begin with? Instead, it has to do with the company can simply pay someone less to do the job, and increase profit. why pay what a job is worth when you can pay someone half that?

A lot more goes into heavy manufacturing than labor costs. Many companies gladly moved manufacturing to lower labor areas, only to see their overall costs go through the roof.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

On this we agree. Let the local elected officials respond to their constituents. Just remember that the repercussions ripple across the US. McDonald's in California has already moved to more automation. Nobody takes your order anymore. You order at a kiosk and some of the cooking is automated. As a result we will see more automation at McDonald's going forward because once they replace personnel they can move it to more locations.

and in california it drives the non skilled labor market underground and cash - so there goes the taxes and SS payments

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

It isnt just Walmart and that is quite pathetic to do as a large profit corporation. Its what happens when management's main/only goal is to maximize profits and they have leverage over their workforce. When companies seek to maximize profits within the context of multiple accepted employment costs, the workforce tends to turn over less frequently and service improves. But Walmart(and some others) know this and choose to prioritize ultimate profits instead.

That's the key that the conservative warriors will forever pretend not to see. corps don't pay what a job is worth, they pay as little as they can find some schlub will take for the job. often even if it means far lower quality. anything that gives workers leverage to start to make what they're worth, they'll attack.

 

[johnson86-1]

I have read it. Genuinely, I’m trying to understand what you are establishing as the legal relationship between an employee’s actual productivity relative to their paycheck. Just seems like the specific use of the word “illegal” does not compute in the context at all. “Irresponsible” or “fiscally wreckless” seem like more applicable terms.

That’s without even getting into the can of worms that “value” from an employee is highly subjective, and dependent on multiple variables even for menial jobs, anyway. Therefore its almost impossible to ascertain to any degree of certainty. Punctuality, reliability, flexibility, communication skills, along with of course general output all go into what makes one valuable or not so valuable, to a varying extent for each depending on any given job or position.

“it makes it illegal for them to work unless somebody hires them as charity or by mistake.”

Option 1: they illegally pay them a wage that makes sense.

Option 2: they pay them more than they’re worth out of a sense of charity.

Option 3: they pay them more than they’re worth because the employer doesn’t realize they are doing it (I.e. because they are making a mistake)

If you wanted to go for extra credit and read past the part you bolded, I acknowledged the Possibility that an employer was paying them because they thought they’d learn to be worth more in the future, but I’d argue that’s just a special case of them being worth more than their wages or alternatively, of the employer making a mistake if the employee doesn’t stick around long enough to let the employer recover its investment in the employee.

There may be some other explanations of why a employer would choose to lose money in an employee, but regardless, it’s a bad idea and I would argue immoral to make it illegal if an employer to pay an economic wage to a low skill employee unless the employee meets some minimum productivity threshold.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Don’t know how gas going to 3-3.50 per gallon is going to effect energy stocks

 

[mcdawg22]

The answer was no.