OT: Can we talking re-openings and markets without locking the thread

[RocketDawg]

That's all a good example of spin. Congressmen were going to get their regular salary regardless of what they did or didn't do.

 

[mstateglfr]

My friend said it was Oasis Petroleum. I did a quick search, and it seems they are (perhaps were - they're "restructuring") a fracking company that concentrates on west Texas. Perhaps his financial advisor was counting on Trump winning since he was a big supporter of fracking, and Biden/Harris hate fracking. If that was the reasoning, it was pretty risky advice. My friend said his stock was worth zero, but checking just now it looks like OAS is worth $45/share, so maybe he was exaggerating somewhat.

It was worth nearly nothing for 2 years starting around Dec '18 and then shot up a couple weeeks AFTER the election.
If this is the company your buddy is talking about, he has 0 idea whats actually happening because it would be difficult for him to mess up the timeline more than he did.
View attachment 19213

 

[RocketDawg]

Most minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be careers (such as working at McDonald's), so I'm not sure if there should even be such a thing as minimum wage, and if there is, it should be tied to the cost of living in a particular area. $15/hour has a lot more buying power in Tupelo, Mississippi than it does in NYC or the Bay Area. Employers pay what a job is worth to them, and what the competition pays for the same job.

I think a teacher in Mississippi or Alabama, retiring after 25 years teaching, would be paid less than $15/hour, assuming a 2080 hour work year.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Raising minimum wage reduces jobs

I agree that we need to look at raising minimum wage. It’s been awhile since it was last raised. But you’re absolutely right that now is not the time. It’s just going to increase unemployment right now. Most small businesses can’t afford to increase pay, even if a business owner wants to.

This is not a new idea. Every time minimum wage goes up, employers will find way to reduce laborers in order to keep costs down. With the way automation is advancing, companies will buy a machine and pay one person $35/hr to run and maintain it, and it will replace 3 people that were making $15/hr. The difficult part is finding that $35/hr person. Trade school, trade school, trade school!

 

[johnson86-1]

Most minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be careers (such as working at McDonald's), so I'm not sure if there should even be such a thing as minimum wage, and if there is, it should be tied to the cost of living in a particular area. $15/hour has a lot more buying power in Tupelo, Mississippi than it does in NYC or the Bay Area. Employers pay what a job is worth to them, and what the competition pays for the same job.

I think a teacher in Mississippi or Alabama, retiring after 25 years teaching, would be paid less than $15/hour, assuming a 2080 hour work year.

It's really irrelevant whether a job is meant to be a career or not. It's immoral to tell people that can't generate $15 an hour of value that they shouldn't be legally allowed to work. Especially since a lot of employees could learn to generate more than $15 an hour of value if they were allowed to work while they learned.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

This is not a new idea. Every time minimum wage goes up, employers will find way to reduce laborers in order to keep costs down. With the way automation is advancing, companies will buy a machine and pay one person $35/hr to run and maintain it, and it will replace 3 people that were making $15/hr. The difficult part is finding that $35/hr person. Trade school, trade school, trade school!

It should be a state issue. If California wants $50/hr let them do it. My local grocery store in rednek Mississippi would go out of business or automate the jobs away. More political BS!!!

 

[Russ Wheeler]

This is not a new idea. Every time minimum wage goes up, employers will find way to reduce laborers in order to keep costs down. With the way automation is advancing, companies will buy a machine and pay one person $35/hr to run and maintain it, and it will replace 3 people that were making $15/hr. The difficult part is finding that $35/hr person. Trade school, trade school, trade school!

Yep, it's all about the skills. The menial, non-thinking jobs are going away, unless you like construction. Even there, you need to be a carpenter or know how to run equipment.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

This should be plastered all over the internet and news. Sneaking bonuses thru (and this liberal fact checking site actually said it's true, but said in this article that they earned it! yea right!). 600 for us and $100,000 for them. Makes sense!!

You make conservatives look bad, bro. Stop trying to toss that tea.

I saw a guy on facebook the other day literally saying the government was screwing him because his quarterly taxes were due. Oh the horror.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

A friend of mine told me today that he lost $17K he had invested (on the suggestion of his financial advisor) in an oil company that went bankrupt. Can't remember the name of the company.

I bought a few early pandemic, but they were two large knowns (Exxon and Chevron) and one higher risk GUSH (leveraged bull fund). They are all up some, 15%, 8.5% and 111% respectively. I was also very astute during the 2007 crisis and bought some financial stocks. They're only still down about 60% on average from where I got them. And let me tell you about my Worldcom purchase. Historical valuation!***

Win some, lose some.

 

[dorndawg]

You make conservatives look bad, bro. Stop trying to toss that tea.

I saw a guy on facebook the other day literally saying the government was screwing him because his quarterly taxes were due. Oh the horror.

 

[SirBarksalot]

Opening? ****, NC is going backwards. Even most private schools are full remote this week.
My hospitals are cancelling elective cases left and right. ICUs are extremely full. Hospitalizations record high last week and hovering at that level for now.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I think that your interpretation of "shouldn't legally be allowed to work" is not the correct interpretation. I read it as jobs should be paid based on value to the company, which is common sense, and is exactly why the push for minimum wages beyond the value of the job will see food service become substantially more automated in the near-mid term, thus eliminating many of those jobs. In a logical world, with ambitious people, that would send people looking to get trained in robotics. I'm not sure it will have that affect. I'd sooner support subsidies for workforce training than unrealistic minimum wage.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

View attachment 19214

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You need only look to what unions benefits did to kill auto manufacturing in the rust belt. American car companies are still in a stranglehold from negotiated pensions that aren't easily supported in today's economy. At one point, and maybe still, GM had 2.5 retirees for every active employee. A microcosm of PERs, Social Security, etc.

 

[LTblows]

for the long haul, you should want microsoft and amazon. Apple lost its innovation with Jobs. Microsoft and Amazon have much more diverse revenue streams.

 

[RocketDawg]

Looks like it weant to zero late in 2020. Perhaps all the stockholders at that time got nothing in the restructuring, and they basically started over. Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about how businesses and bankruptcy work.

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Was it a bonus? Its just the salary earned while concurrently working on CARES as well as countless other domestic and international issues.

This info came from my banker yesterday. He said that they(congress) wrote a 25 million $ clause in the 2nd stimulus bill to pay themselves that extra little bit of money. They tried it in the 1st stimulus, but Pelosi got busted, so they ran it up the flagpole again and boom. I'm trying to find it in that huge document and when I do, I'll share it. But notice how neither side is even bringing it up?? Why should they. You go into Washington to make your $175K annually and come out after 5 to 6 years (based on congress) a millionaire. It's a country club up there and when you join it, you basically get cart blache on getting freebies and perks for family members(see coke head Hunter for proof).

 

[RocketDawg]

It's really irrelevant whether a job is meant to be a career or not. It's immoral to tell people that can't generate $15 an hour of value that they shouldn't be legally allowed to work. Especially since a lot of employees could learn to generate more than $15 an hour of value if they were allowed to work while they learned.

Agree. Let them work, but don't pay them $15/hr if the job's not worth that much. Hiring an employee isn't a welfare move - it's to get a job done.

 

[xxxWalkTheDawg]

A friend of mine told me today that he lost $17K he had invested (on the suggestion of his financial advisor) in an oil company that went bankrupt. Can't remember the name of the company.

Chesapeake Energy? If a financial advisor told him to dump 17k on a penny stock of a highly leveraged oil company when oil was cheaper than water.. and do so before oil rebounded to the point they were able to operate... he SHOULD have cashed out every single penny and ran to another advisor.

 

[johnson86-1]

I think that your interpretation of "shouldn't legally be allowed to work" is not the correct interpretation. I read it as jobs should be paid based on value to the company, which is common sense, and is exactly why the push for minimum wages beyond the value of the job will see food service become substantially more automated in the near-mid term, thus eliminating many of those jobs. In a logical world, with ambitious people, that would send people looking to get trained in robotics. I'm not sure it will have that affect. I'd sooner support subsidies for workforce training than unrealistic minimum wage.

It doesn't explicitly make it illegal for them to work, but it makes it illegal for them to work unless somebody hires them as charity or by mistake. Or I guess alternatively with the expectation that they will eventually learn to generate more than $15 worth of value and the employer will be able to capture the benefit of that.

 

[VegasDawg13]

But notice how neither side is even bringing it up?? Why should they.

Because it's not true.

 

[Go Budaw]

Most minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be careers (such as working at McDonald's), so I'm not sure if there should even be such a thing as minimum wage, and if there is, it should be tied to the cost of living in a particular area. $15/hour has a lot more buying power in Tupelo, Mississippi than it does in NYC or the Bay Area. Employers pay what a job is worth to them, and what the competition pays for the same job.

I think a teacher in Mississippi or Alabama, retiring after 25 years teaching, would be paid less than $15/hour, assuming a 2080 hour work year.

Problem is, there aren’t enough “career” job openings for everybody to have one. Somebody has to do those jobs. If you are stuck working there for 40 hrs a week or more, you should at least be able to afford a ****** apartment, ****** car, gas for said ****** car, food in the fridge, and basic utilities (including some form of home internet even if it’s through your cell service LTE). That’s not where we are, not even close in some parts of the country.

 

[Go Budaw]

It doesn't explicitly make it illegal for them to work, but it makes it illegal for them to work unless somebody hires them as charity or by mistake. Or I guess alternatively with the expectation that they will eventually learn to generate more than $15 worth of value and the employer will be able to capture the benefit of that.

What? It is in no way illegal for an employee who can’t generate the productivity equal to the value of their paycheck to work at a job that puts them in that scenario. I have no idea where you are deriving that theory. Every organization on the planet has dregs and overachievers, from the working level all the way up to managers and executives. If a company wants to make a bad hire or put somebody in a position they can’t or won’t succeed, that’s on them.

 

[57stratdawg]

It's a form of corporate socialism. Large companies are able to pay below living wage levels for their workers, but the Federal Gov't fills in the gap. I believe something like 75% of food stamp recipients worked full time. That's not the picture most of us have when it comes to welfare programs; they just work for Walmart, McDonalds, etc.

So, McDonalds pays $10 an hour, the workers are subsidized shortfalls from the Government, profits are kept due to the subsidies and the tax-payer is left footing the bill. Love or hate Bernie Sanders, he's right to speak out against this big-business/big-Gov't relationship.

 

[dorndawg]

This info came from my banker yesterday. He said that they(congress) wrote a 25 million $ clause in the 2nd stimulus bill to pay themselves that extra little bit of money. They tried it in the 1st stimulus, but Pelosi got busted, so they ran it up the flagpole again and boom. I'm trying to find it in that huge document and when I do, I'll share it. But notice how neither side is even bringing it up?? Why should they. You go into Washington to make your $175K annually and come out after 5 to 6 years (based on congress) a millionaire. It's a country club up there and when you join it, you basically get cart blache on getting freebies and perks for family members(see coke head Hunter for proof).

Please do share it when you find it. Also, your banker is a moron.

 

[dorndawg]

You need only look to what unions benefits did to kill auto manufacturing in the rust belt. American car companies are still in a stranglehold from negotiated pensions that aren't easily supported in today's economy. At one point, and maybe still, GM had 2.5 retirees for every active employee. A microcosm of PERs, Social Security, etc.

Placing the blame on the decline of manufacturing jobs solely on the shoulders of unions without mentioning automation is missing the forest for the trees.

 

[aTotal360]

One brought on the other...

 

[dorndawg]

One brought on the other...

That statement is simply not based in reality.

 

[mstateglfr]

This info came from my banker yesterday. He said that they(congress) wrote a 25 million $ clause in the 2nd stimulus bill to pay themselves that extra little bit of money. They tried it in the 1st stimulus, but Pelosi got busted, so they ran it up the flagpole again and boom. I'm trying to find it in that huge document and when I do, I'll share it. But notice how neither side is even bringing it up?? Why should they. You go into Washington to make your $175K annually and come out after 5 to 6 years (based on congress) a millionaire. It's a country club up there and when you join it, you basically get cart blache on getting freebies and perks for family members(see coke head Hunter for proof).

I have also noticed neither side is bringing up how the sky is Purple, how tomatoes taste like oranges, and how cars fly. They arent talking about any of this, and it isnt because they are hiding anything.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Unions being entrenched on salaries and benefits that were unsustainable and not representative of the value of the position are a big reason that many auto plants now exist (albeit with more automation and fewer workers to do the same work) in states that are employment at will with very low union participation rates. It's very difficult to unwind benefits and pay as a union head. So better stated, automation was a huge contributor to it taking fewer people to make cars. Union greed and inflexibility is a huge factor in why new car plants are popping up in TN, AL, MS, etc. If it weren't for unions, auto makers could've probably more easily built new plants in what is now the rust belt because labor and logistics were already there. They didn't do that.

 

[dorndawg]

Unions being entrenched on salaries and benefits that were unsustainable and not representative of the value of the position are a big reason that many auto plants now exist (albeit with more automation and fewer workers to do the same work) in states that are employment at will with very low union participation rates. It's very difficult to unwind benefits and pay as a union head. So better stated, automation was a huge contributor to it taking fewer people to make cars. Union greed and inflexibility is a huge factor in why new car plants are popping up in TN, AL, MS, etc. If it weren't for unions, auto makers could've probably more easily built new plants in what is now the rust belt because labor and logistics were already there. They didn't do that.

I don't see anything unreasonable there. Car manufacturers probably also like making higher profits - which is totally their prerogative under capitalism, but let's not act as though they are altruistic.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

For the most part, fast food profits are pretty thin. Collectively, franchise owners and corporate make money but it is volume, not margin. I think fast food averages are at best 6%. When I worked at McDonald's, I got my worst tongue lashing for dropping a frozen box of fries. More broken fries fit in a fry box than whole ones and it impacted profitability. If labor costs go up very much, the equation breaks and it makes no sense to be open because you are losing money.

Certainly the government picks winners and losers via subsidies. Working poor existed long before the the US existed. There have always been haves and have nots. There will always be haves and have nots. The variables are too numerous to list, but the conclusion is certain; it has, and always will exist.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Nope. The only clarity I have on auto manufacturers, having never worked in the industry, is that I shoulda bought Ford when it was $3/share in 2007ish. There, right back onto the off topic topic!

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'll buy the minute that we have an abundance of people with marketable skills, college degrees, etc. who have simply been relegated to McDonald's because there aren't enough jobs. I can tell you from when I worked at McDonald's that there aren't enough people willing/capable of being on a management track, and you CAN make a living walking that path. I have sympathy for those not capable, not so much for those just unwilling to work hard.

 

[johnson86-1]

What? It is in no way illegal for an employee who can’t generate the productivity equal to the value of their paycheck to work at a job that puts them in that scenario. I have no idea where you are deriving that theory. Every organization on the planet has dregs and overachievers, from the working level all the way up to managers and executives. If a company wants to make a bad hire or put somebody in a position they can’t or won’t succeed, that’s on them.

You should go back and read the part you bolded. I mean, ideally read the entire post if you're going to respond to it, but certainly you should read the part you bolded.

 

[aTotal360]

You don't think automation was brought on because it's a more efficient way to do menial jobs?

Lemme guess, you think robots were invented because someone thought it would be cool.

 

[dorndawg]

You don't think automation was brought on because it's a more efficient way to do menial jobs?

Lemme guess, you think robots were invented because someone thought it would be cool.

My interpretation of your post was that the existence of unions led to automation. If that wasn't your intent, party on.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

He said that they(congress) wrote a 25 million $ clause in the 2nd stimulus bill to pay themselves that extra little bit of money.

That 2nd stimulus had a number of regular budgetary items in it. Your banker is an idiot and you're an idiot for believing it to the point that it got you all mad at the big bad government.

You're the type of idiot that TateR used to get elected (we hate them wash'tun libruls!!11). And now, when he's actually doing a VERY GOOD job (contrary to what I thought he'd do), it is you idiots that are now turning on him because he made you wear a mask in a select few indoor establishments where people congregate in close quarters.

Stop believing blowhard bankers and facebook memes. Please.

 

[mcdawg22]

A friend of mine told me today that he lost $17K he had invested (on the suggestion of his financial advisor) in an oil company that went bankrupt. Can't remember the name of the company.

Did he consult this financial advisor through a sports message board?

 

[dorndawg]

That 2nd stimulus had a number of regular budgetary items in it. Your banker is an idiot and you're an idiot for believing it to the point that it got you all mad at the big bad government.

You're the type of idiot that TateR used to get elected (we hate them wash'tun libruls!!11). And now, when he's actually doing a VERY GOOD job (contrary to what I thought he'd do), it is you idiots that are now turning on him because he made you wear a mask in a select few indoor establishments where people congregate in close quarters.

Stop believing blowhard bankers and facebook memes. Please.

I've now agreed with goat on 2 posts. I'm going to take some time off to think about some things.