OT: Baseball Scoring Question

[Colbert17!]

I'm hoping that someone can explain this to me.
Watching the Padre game tonight and going to the top of the ninth they're leading 7-1.
Two outs and Arizona has a runner on first who takes second base on defensive indifference.
The batter then gets a base hit scoring the runner from second. Looking at the box score the pitcher was charged with an earned run. The runner who scored didn't earn second base and would not have scored from first on the single so why is it an earned run?
IMHO if you're going to score it an earned run you have to give the guy a stolen base. I understand the defensive indifference rule but if I was a pitcher I'd be ticked off that I get charged with an earned run because my team didn't play giving the runner the base.
I hope what I'm saying makes sense because to me the rule doesn't.

 

[JMORC2003]

The closest I can figure it out is, it’s a rbi, unless there was an error on the play, or a force DP. Even if the runner who scored got on by an error, it would still be a rbi.

Agree here. Look at it as isolated plays. The run was earned because he scored on a hit. How he got into scoring position doesn’t matter. Baseball is a funny game but that’s how it makes sense in my mind

 

[Colbert17!]

Agree here. Look at it as isolated plays. The run was earned because he scored on a hit. How he got into scoring position doesn’t matter. Baseball is a funny game but that’s how it makes sense in my mind

I understand the logic but it doesn't seem fair to the pitcher.

 

[mikebal9]

The pitcher allowed the runner to reach base and allowed the next batter to drive him in. I'd say he earned it.

 

[Colbert17!]

The pitcher allowed the runner to reach base and allowed the next batter to drive him in. I'd say he earned it.

I guess it's a question for me of scoring position. The two hits he gave up would not have resulted in a run scored if second base wasn't conceded.

If the hitter smacked a double up the gap, ok it's a earned run because you may assume the runner would score.
I think it should be the scorer's discretion.

 

[Doctor Worm]

To me the weirdest rule is that if a run scores on a wild pitch it is considered earned, but if on a passed ball it is considered unearned.

 

[hoquat63]

Same as if player singles and outfielder boots ball or makes errant throw back in allowing runner to advance.

 

[DJ Spanky]

I understand the logic but it doesn't seem fair to the pitcher.

MLB has convened a committee to look into how to score this differently as it does not take into account the sensitivities of the pitcher. For now, until they render a decision, each team will have a counselor in the dugout who will be allowed a four minute window after a scoring play like this to go out and talk with the pitcher about how this play affected him. If the counselor deems the pitcher can no longer continue, the team will then be allowed up to eight minutes for another pitcher to warm up in the bullpen, then replace the offended pitcher.

 

[TODDB33]

Agree here. Look at it as isolated plays. The run was earned because he scored on a hit. How he got into scoring position doesn’t matter. Baseball is a funny game but that’s how it makes sense in my mind

I am under impression that how and when he gets into scoring position does matter. Example 2 outs batter gets to second on error by infielder who throws ball away. Next batter gets hit he scores. Considered unearned because no error equals 3rd out of inning

 

[ClassOf02v.2]

I am under impression that how and when he gets into scoring position does matter. Example 2 outs batter gets to second on error by infielder who throws ball away. Next batter gets hit he scores. Considered unearned because no error equals 3rd out of inning

Doesn’t it ultimately come down to whether an error was involved in the sequence of events? An infielder throwing the ball away is an error resulting in the runner advancing into scoring position. Defensive indifference is not an error...it’s a collective team decision allowing that runner to advance.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Some aspects of the earned/unearned decision are entirely subjective. It is based on the scorer's projection of what would have resulted if the misplay had not occurred.

Consider the following example:

• Runner on first, two out.
• Batter singles. Runner pulls up at second, and then advances to third when the outfielder boots the ball for an error.
• Next batter singles, run scores.
• Next batter makes third out.

Is the run earned? Depends on whether the scorer thinks the runner would have scored from second, which is where he would have been had the error not occurred.

 

[Colbert17!]

MLB has convened a committee to look into how to score this differently as it does not take into account the sensitivities of the pitcher. For now, until they render a decision, each team will have a counselor in the dugout who will be allowed a four minute window after a scoring play like this to go out and talk with the pitcher about how this play affected him. If the counselor deems the pitcher can no longer continue, the team will then be allowed up to eight minutes for another pitcher to warm up in the bullpen, then replace the offended pitcher.

[roll][roll][roll]

 

[wicker]

Should introduce you guys to the concept of unearned run for the team but earned run for the pitcher

 

[JMORC2003]

I have an idea, how about they scrap the whole earned run thing and just track runs against. For every error made that eventually turns into a run, there’s a great defensive play that stops a player from getting on or advancing. Assume it all balances out.

hockey tracks goals against for goalies, but what happens when a defenseman slips and a guy gets a breakaway and scores? It still counts against the goalie (not exactly the same, but kinda, no?)

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Agree here. Look at it as isolated plays. The run was earned because he scored on a hit. How he got into scoring position doesn’t matter. Baseball is a funny game but that’s how it makes sense in my mind

He also earned his way to first base. So the pitcher is responsible for him being on in the first place. If he doesn't get on then they wouldn't have made the safe bet to allow him to take second without possibly throwing the ball to centerfield and giving him third.

Any chance this is a fantasy baseball question? Nah.. obvious Padres superfan question.

BTW when are the Padres changing their name?

 

[Colbert17!]

He also earned his way to first base. So the pitcher is responsible for him being on in the first place. If he doesn't get on then they wouldn't have made the safe bet to allow him to take second without possibly throwing the ball to centerfield and giving him third.

Any chance this is a fantasy baseball question? Nah.. obvious Padres superfan question.

BTW when are the Padres changing their name?

It was just a question that came to my mind.
I can see the logic in the passed ball/wild pitch scenario.
As for the name I haven't heard any problem with it but I'm sure it will reach that point eventually.
I heard a guy say, half jokingly, just assign a team a color except black or white. The baseball team in Cincinnati, the hockey team in St. Loius and the football team in Cleveland get to keep there names!!!!

 

[Doctor Worm]

It was just a question that came to my mind.
I can see the logic in the passed ball/wild pitch scenario.
As for the name I haven't heard any problem with it but I'm sure it will reach that point eventually.
I heard a guy say, half jokingly, just assign a team a color except black or white. The baseball team in Cincinnati, the hockey team in St. Loius and the football team in Cleveland get to keep there names!!!!

I assume you are aware that back in the 50's, the Cincinnati team did change its name, from Reds to Redlegs. This was at the peak of McCarthyism and the team did not want to be associated with the "Red Scare" of Communism.

So do not scoff at team owners who feel compelled to change a team's name to conform to the sentiment of the time. It is hardly a new phenomenon!

 

[ChrisNalwasky]

A couple of years ago I was covering a baseball game and I called my dad afterwards because I didn't know how I should score something for my book/stats haha.

 

[scoopo17]

This is my scoring question...when the 3rd baseman shifts to the right side of the infield and is the player immediately to the first baseman’s right, why is it scored 5-3 on a ground out to him? This happened yesterday with Jeff McNeil. In my opinion when he is in that position he is now the second baseman and it should be scored 4-3.

 

[Doctor Worm]

This is my scoring question...when the 3rd baseman shifts to the right side of the infield and is the player immediately to the first baseman’s right, why is it scored 5-3 on a ground out to him? This happened yesterday with Jeff McNeil. In my opinion when he is in that position he is now the second baseman and it should be scored 4-3.

Under your logic, what if the grounder is fielded by Cano, the second baseman standing in (or close to) his normal position? Is it also scored 4-3? If so, how do you ensure that the assists are correctly credited?

 

[scoopo17]

I think Cano is the SS because he is the second player to the right of Alonso and Rosario is the 3B based on their positioning

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

It was just a question that came to my mind.
I can see the logic in the passed ball/wild pitch scenario.
As for the name I haven't heard any problem with it but I'm sure it will reach that point eventually.
I heard a guy say, half jokingly, just assign a team a color except black or white. The baseball team in Cincinnati, the hockey team in St. Loius and the football team in Cleveland get to keep there names!!!!

well.. was Saint Louis himself "woke"? What about Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus.. that Roman probably had slaves. Cleveland? Moses Cleaveland tricked the local natives to allow him to build a port town on their land for about $1200 of beads and whiskey.

 

[Colbert17!]

Beads and whiskey???
Isn't that Mardi Gras???

 

[BigRnj]

The runner was on base due to the pitcher, so if he scores (other than due to an error) it should be an earned run. Some pitchers actually pitch from a windup in the OP situation above.

 

[yesrutgers01]

To me the weirdest rule is that if a run scores on a wild pitch it is considered earned, but if on a passed ball it is considered unearned.

Passed ball is no different than an error. That’s why

Great question by the OP. Along the same line...if the guy got into scoring position by a hit and an error to allow him advance a base, isn’t that also an earned run? I believe it is but only about 90% sure.

I believe, what I had heard a long time ago is that certain things cannot be assumed. Is it very unlikely a runner could score from first on a single? Yeah, most likely not about 99.5% of the time but we all saw dumb and dumber...same logic applies.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Passed ball is no different than an error. That’s why

Great question by the OP. Along the same line...if the guy got into scoring position by a hit and an error to allow him advance a base, isn’t that also an earned run? I believe it is but only about 90% sure.

I believe, what I had heard a long time ago is that certain things cannot be assumed. Is it very unlikely a runner could score from first on a single? Yeah, most likely not about 99.5% of the time but we all saw dumb and dumber...same logic applies.

To your first point, yes I get that a passed ball is treated like an error by the catcher. But why isn't a wild pitch treated as an error by the pitcher? I don't understand the inconsistency.

To your question, the answer is it depends on whether the run would have scored if the error had not occurred. In your example, if the next batter hits a homer, then the run is earned, as it would have scored anyway. However, if the pitcher goes on to strike out the next three hitters, then the run is unearned, because it would not have scored except for the error.

 

[yesrutgers01]

To your first point, yes I get that a passed ball is treated like an error by the catcher. But why isn't a wild pitch treated as an error by the pitcher? I don't understand the inconsistency.

To your question, the answer is it depends on whether the run would have scored if the error had not occurred. In your example, if the next batter hits a homer, then the run is earned, as it would have scored anyway. However, if the pitcher goes on to strike out the next three hitters, then the run is unearned, because it would not have scored except for the error.

But let’s say a guy like Ramos gets a single and advances to 2b on a throwing error. Next guy hits a double. Good chance a normal player may score from first on a double but much less of a chance like Ramos but it could still happen. I would think that would be earned anyway

 

[Doctor Worm]

But let’s say a guy like Ramos gets a single and advances to 2b on a throwing error. Next guy hits a double. Good chance a normal player may score from first on a double but much less of a chance like Ramos but it could still happen. I would think that would be earned anyway

In that case it is purely up to the subjective judgement of the official scorer.