North Carolina Scandal Etc

[Mark Gastineau]

I was banned long ago from posting on the Carolina board and haven't visited since. I have to admit that if the hammer is dropped I will go back just to see Hellisheel and Gun Slinger Dick wallow in their own tears. [laughing][laughing][laughing]

When you do, keep an eye out for the idiot that posted this on THR today.



uncfan in kyHall of Famer
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Location:

Owensboro Ky


I find it funny the amount of "haters" that claim to be upset that kids were cheated out of a education. How can a UK fan really say they care about kids getting a education, with the amount of OAD they produce?
Why don't they just be honest & admit they're jealous of the UNC Program & the Carolina way & want nothing more to see the UNC basketball team be found guilty of being as dirty as UKs program & its history

Still scratching my head wondering what Kentucky would be jealous about in comparison to UNC.

 

[Mark Gastineau]

@Aligned_for_9, I just want to say how much I appreciate your posts on this issue. Quite informative. I hope you don't mind, but I've been posting some on the national board in the thread about the UNC scandal. Would love for you to post in that thread any time you feel like it. Everyone enjoys your insights. Thanks again.

https://forums.rivals.com/threads/uncs-ongoing-story-with-the-ncaa.345836/

 

[Aligned_for_9]

Just a reminder. The amended NOA contains a new Level 2 violation that involves financial aid. This information has now come out from other sources.

From a NCAA penalty position, a Level 2 violation regarding financial aid won't add much. However, the reason that financial aid issues were charged gives a big clue as to what is coming with the new Level 1 violation. I firmly believes it involves the reclassification of "full-time student" and actively working on "progress toward degree." What is the NCAA stance on athletes not being a full-time student actively progressing toward a degree?


Also, the NCAA determining issues with financial aid opens the door to other official bodies looking at misuse of funds. Perhaps Pell Grant fraud?

 

[MNantz]

I have to say I am deeply ashamed that prick Uncfan in Ky lives in Owensboro !! There are a few UofSmell fans here as well , not many, but this city can do with out that guy !!

 

[Aligned_for_9]

As we near the release of the Notice of Allegations...prepare yourself for the UNC PR machine to step up the efforts. We're about to see an increase in pro-UNC articles & media coverage. The propaganda fluff pieces are about to start coming harder than they have in several months. DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

UNC is paying millions of dollars to PR to carefully construct a message. This "plan of attack" is being dispersed to various national and state media sources. You must remember that UNC's PR team is expensive for a reason...they earn every one of those dollars because they are great at putting lipstick on a pig. Do not fall for it.

 

[mebeblue2]

When you do, keep an eye out for the idiot that posted this on THR today.



uncfan in kyHall of Famer
Joined:

Oct 23, 2008

Messages:

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Likes Received:

170

Location:

Owensboro Ky


I find it funny the amount of "haters" that claim to be upset that kids were cheated out of a education. How can a UK fan really say they care about kids getting a education, with the amount of OAD they produce?
Why don't they just be honest & admit they're jealous of the UNC Program & the Carolina way & want nothing more to see the UNC basketball team be found guilty of being as dirty as UKs program & its history

Still scratching my head wondering what Kentucky would be jealous about in comparison to UNC.

Mark i'll give you a little history on uncfaninky
we had a poster whose son had died (i think he committed suicide)
uncfaninky posted on that fans fan page some comments about his son dying that showed what a true piece of garbage he is
he should have been banned from the entire rivals network

 

[Aligned_for_9]

Guys, I advise you to invest in a box of popcorn and a fine bottle of Kentucky bourbon.

1989-2011

 

[UKrazycat2_rivals]

Guys, I advise you to invest in a box of popcorn and a fine bottle of Kentucky bourbon.

1989-2011

Oh mama, Oh yeah....opcorn:

 

[Spanish Radio]

Guys, I advise you to invest in a box of popcorn and a fine bottle of Kentucky bourbon.

1989-2011

Now that would be something. kay: Could we see 3 national titles vacated? Not getting my hopes but that would be amazing.

 

[UK 82]

Guys, I advise you to invest in a box of popcorn and a fine bottle of Kentucky bourbon.

1989-2011

Now there's an idea and also an odd combination. Orville Redenbacher and Pappy Van Winkle. Hell I'll give it a go!

 

[WettCat]

1989-2011

No F'n way. Just no way. Please don't tease us like that---would be total scorched earth nuclear. I've got about 3 drinks of 20 year old Pappy I've been waiting on a special occasion to finish. It would be gonzo....

 

[Aligned_for_9]

A few days ago I asked, "Whst could possibly be taking UNC Compliance 8 months to do?" That was not a typo. I did in fact mean "UNC Compliance" and not the "NCAA."

When the 1989-2011 range gets announced....remember that the PTB at UNC have known of this for months...as it was UNC Compliance that had to recalculate the eligiblity of athletes. UNC has known for months. Remember all of those UNC "insiders" who kept assuring is that everything was OK? And that men's basketball was not involved? Yeah....they were a combo of straight lies or simply repeating fed lies in order to keep morale high. I was not joking...UNC's PR team earned those dollars. So many fell for it...

 

[Spanish Radio]

A few days ago I asked, "Whst could possibly be taking UNC Compliance 8 months to do?" That was not a typo. I did in fact mean "UNC Compliance" and not the "NCAA."

When the 1989-2011 range gets announced....remember that the PTB at UNC have known of this for months...as it was UNC Compliance that had to recalculate the eligiblity of athletes. UNC has known for months. Remember all of those UNC "insiders" who kept assuring is that everything was OK? And that men's basketball was not involved? Yeah....they were a combo of straight lies or simply repeating fed lies in order to keep morale high. I was not joking...UNC's PR team earned those dollars. So many fell for it...

My only concern has been the NCAA and their lack of integrity. Would they be able to move themselves to hit UNC hard due to the money and politics involved?

 

[Bkocats]

My only concern has been the NCAA and their lack of integrity. Would they be able to move themselves to hit UNC hard due to the money and politics involved?

that's my question - which brings up another: if they do not, what will happen to the NCAA as it is, now?

 

[Aligned_for_9]

Again, I think people simply do not understand the significance of "Jenkins vs NCAA." The Jenkins case forced the NCAA's hand.

The NCAA is accusing UNC of playing a ton of ineligible athletes from 1989-2011.

 

[Spanish Radio]

that's my question - which brings up another: if they do not, what will happen to the NCAA as it is, now?

To me this always comes down to public outrage, money, politics, and the P5 conference University presidents. If there is no public outrage then the P5 Universities can just keep the money flowing from the NCAA and they can use Mark Emmert as their puppet and we continue to use him as a piñata. The wildcard would be congress and if that lumbering institution can wake up and do something.

 

[Bkocats]

To me this always comes down to public outrage, money, politics, and the P5 conference University presidents. If there is no public outrage then the P5 Universities can just keep the money flowing from the NCAA and they can use Mark Emmert as their puppet and we continue to use him as a piñata. The wildcard would be congress and if that lumbering institution can wake up and do something.

agreed. How likely is there to be public outrage? I mean, beyond us, NC State fans, and some Duke fans? I've read very little about the general public even knowing the extent of this. Sorry - questions to spark discussion

And what you said about congress - wouldn't bet on squat, there

 

[Aligned_for_9]

The NCAA required UNC to recalculate the eligibility of their own athletes based on UNC's own policy....hence the 8 month delay.

 

[mapcatfan_rivals31344]

The NCAA required UNC to recalculate the eligibility of their own athletes based on UNC's own policy....hence the 8 month delay.

I'm leery of trusting anything that comes directly from UNC.

 

[ukalum_rivals311718]

The NCAA required UNC to recalculate the eligibility of their own athletes based on UNC's own policy....hence the 8 month delay.

That seems like the NCAA was giving UNC a chance to manipulate the calculations for a more favorable outcome. Fox in charge of the henhouse. Who will determine if UNC did the calculations correctly?

 

[Aligned_for_9]

I'm leery of trusting anything that comes directly from UNC.

True, but via Martin Report & Wainstein Report, we know how many enrollments in bogus classes there were...by sport. The NCAA has the full, unredacted numbers

 

[Aligned_for_9]

That seems like the NCAA was giving UNC a chance to manipulate the calculations for a more favorable outcome. Fox in charge of the henhouse. Who will determine if UNC did the calculations correctly?

Sure...if the NCAA wants Jenkins vs NCAA to force the NCAA to pay players.

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

The NCAA required UNC to recalculate the eligibility of their own athletes based on UNC's own policy....hence the 8 month delay.

I wish I could overcome the sickening feeling that this is somehow being manipulated by unc as well. Unc has without reprieve tried to undermine and obfuscate this investigation from the very beginning---without any apparent consequences. Af9, u r keeping my hopes for a unc smackdown alive

 

[JPScott]

As we near the release of the Notice of Allegations...prepare yourself for the UNC PR machine to step up the efforts. We're about to see an increase in pro-UNC articles & media coverage. The propaganda fluff pieces are about to start coming harder than they have in several months. DO NOT FALL FOR IT.

UNC is paying millions of dollars to PR to carefully construct a message. This "plan of attack" is being dispersed to various national and state media sources. You must remember that UNC's PR team is expensive for a reason...they earn every one of those dollars because they are great at putting lipstick on a pig. Do not fall for it.

As far as the UNC-purchased media spin machine, they've been doing that for decades. They don't know anything else.

But I would caution anyone in the media who participates in this charade be aware that they will be held responsible for what they say. A lot of people in the media are already well on their way to destroying their credibility over this issue.

 

[Coach325]

Guys, I advise you to invest in a box of popcorn and a fine bottle of Kentucky bourbon.

1989-2011

If you are speaking the truth, you will become my hero.

 

[Aligned_for_9]

Scoff if you will. I'm telling you that banners are falling.

 

[ukalum_rivals311718]

These are questions I have, not that I expect that anyone can answer them.

Has SACS or anyone else officially certified that these courses, by couse number, were fake and illegitimate? That was an issue at one time. UNC claimed the couses were legitimate.

Taking a bogus class doesn't necessarily make you ineligible if you take enough ligitimate classes, on a per semester basis, to otherwise qualify as a full time student and progress toward a degree. I think UNC's own policy allowed for up to 12 credit hours of these classes per year. I see a lot of wiggle room if UNC is so disposed.

 

[Coach325]

Scoff if you will. I'm telling you that banners are falling.

I'm not scoffing brother, I'm pulling for you to be right.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Scoff if you will. I'm telling you that banners are falling.

I noticed the plural. That would require Daffy Duck and Kermit in the same post.

 

[Aligned_for_9]

These are questions I have, not that I expect that anyone can answer them.

Has SACS or anyone else officially certified that these courses, by couse number, were fake and illegitimate? That was an issue at one time. UNC claimed the couses were legitimate.

Taking a bogus class doesn't necessarily make you ineligible if you take enough ligitimate classes, on a per semester basis, to otherwise qualify as a full time student and progress toward a degree. I think UNC's own policy allowed for up to 12 credit hours of these classes per year. I see a lot of wiggle room if UNC is so disposed.

Yes. SACS used the term "academic fraud"....and in response to SACS, UNC agreed. This transpired after the NCAA issued the first NOA.

UNC's policy allowed 12 hours of Independent Study in an entire college career...NOT per year. UNC's policy also allows no more than two Independent Study courses in one semester. Tons of athletes were allowed to break this policy...including Rashad McCants.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

These are questions I have, not that I expect that anyone can answer them.

Has SACS or anyone else officially certified that these courses, by couse number, were fake and illegitimate? That was an issue at one time. UNC claimed the couses were legitimate.

Taking a bogus class doesn't necessarily make you ineligible if you take enough ligitimate classes, on a per semester basis, to otherwise qualify as a full time student and progress toward a degree. I think UNC's own policy allowed for up to 12 credit hours of these classes per year. I see a lot of wiggle room if UNC is so disposed.

It's 12 credit hours TOTAL, not per year. Where did you get that?

 

[JPScott]

Taking a bogus class doesn't necessarily make you ineligible if you take enough ligitimate classes, on a per semester basis, to otherwise qualify as a full time student and progress toward a degree

Most athletes I don't think are going to be taking a lot of extra classes beyond the minimum required, especially during the season.

So yes, if it turns out that some of these classes are not legitimate, that could easily put them below the threshold mandated by the NCAA to be making progress toward their degree. Beyond that, if you remember Julius Pepper's transcript, without the relatively high grades received in suspect classes, his overall GPA would have dropped below the level needed to remain eligible to participate.

Beyond that, I've always said that UNC officials are required by the NCAA to certify that their athletes are academically eligible to participate in NCAA sanctioned athletics. If they did so knowing that some of these classes were bogus (something Mary Willingham has already admitted to BTW), then they were guilty of fraud. That by itself is sufficient to charge the University with a violation IMO.

 

[Lumpy 2]

These are questions I have, not that I expect that anyone can answer them.

Has SACS or anyone else officially certified that these courses, by couse number, were fake and illegitimate? That was an issue at one time. UNC claimed the couses were legitimate.

Taking a bogus class doesn't necessarily make you ineligible if you take enough ligitimate classes, on a per semester basis, to otherwise qualify as a full time student and progress toward a degree. I think UNC's own policy allowed for up to 12 credit hours of these classes per year. I see a lot of wiggle room if UNC is so disposed.

UNC's policy allowed up to 12 credit total credit hours to count toward a degree. That's the reason Crowder began listing the no-show classes as lecture classes. The athletes were exceeding the 12 hour rule for independent studies and her solution was to begin listing them as lecture classes.

 

[preacherfan]

Has SACS or anyone else officially certified that these courses, by couse number, were fake and illegitimate? That was an issue at one time. UNC claimed the couses were legitimate..

I have to wonder what UNC would have done IF these classes didn't involve a high number of minority students and a high number of athletes? The "classes" were completely fraudulent and the students had to know that.

When a lecture class never meets, requires only a paper that is graded by a secretary, that is the very essence of fraudulent. I have multiple degrees from different schools and have never seen anything even remotely like this. UNC has sanctioned a department running a diploma mill.

 

[KopiKat]

I see a lot of wiggle room if UNC is so disposed.

If by that you mean go to court and fight using fabricated evidence, yes, they are so disposed.

 

[UKnCincy_rivals]

These are questions I have, not that I expect that anyone can answer them.

Has SACS or anyone else officially certified that these courses, by couse number, were fake and illegitimate? That was an issue at one time. UNC claimed the couses were legitimate.

Taking a bogus class doesn't necessarily make you ineligible if you take enough ligitimate classes, on a per semester basis, to otherwise qualify as a full time student and progress toward a degree. I think UNC's own policy allowed for up to 12 credit hours of these classes per year. I see a lot of wiggle room if UNC is so disposed.

If a class, or the process of placement within a class, is structured in such a way that it benefits athletes more so than general students, then that class becomes an extra benefit. In that case, it is completely irrelevant whether or not they took enough legimate classes. A single extra benefit renders a player immediately ineligible and requires reinstatement before they can play again.

And if you'll remember, the original NOA alleged these were extra benefits.

 

[KopiKat]

Yes. SACS used the term "academic fraud"....and in response to SACS, UNC agreed. This transpired after the NCAA issued the first NOA.

UNC's policy allowed 12 hours of Independent Study in an entire college career...NOT per year. UNC's policy also allows no more than two Independent Study courses in one semester. Tons of athletes were allowed to break this policy...including Rashad McCants.

This is what unc will do: they will fabricate evidence to indicate that they had made an adjustment to the policy. This fabricated evidence will be a communication, a letter, an executive memorandum, whatever, that they will use to demonstrate how the policy adjustment was misinterpreted, thus resulting in athletes enrolling in 12 independent studies per year. Then, they will supplement the fabricated evidence with under oath discussion . . . something like, upon discovery of the misinterpretation and the unfortunate, isolated, instances of individuals like Mr. McCants, we chose not to implement the policy adjustment. However, this discovery came too late to require the student athlete to alter his/her enrolled course work. I can see something like this happening. shameless strategy to save at least one banner.

 

[.S&C.]

I have to wonder what UNC would have done IF these classes didn't involve a high number of minority students and a high number of athletes? The "classes" were completely fraudulent and the students had to know that.

When a lecture class never meets, requires only a paper that is graded by a secretary, that is the very essence of fraudulent. I have multiple degrees from different schools and have never seen anything even remotely like this. UNC has sanctioned a department running a diploma mill.

The academia overlooked this fraud for two reasons.

1. Largely minority students. The leftist point of view is collectively the same on most college campuses these days. African Amercian students are systematically withheld from white America's recourses, and they must be given "extra" leniency and a different standard. The soft bigotry is running rampant and it's not just UNC. The "sports" people just took full advantage of that. I wouldn't doubt for a second that there were more whistle blowers who were told to stay quiet and their race was used as a wedge. People who don't see it are blind.

2. Sports, wins, and money, of course.

Why do people think "AA studies" were used? Coincidence? Of course not. It was used because they knew everyone would be scared to call a predominately black division a fraud.

 

[Aligned_for_9]

The "death penalty" will not be used, but pretty much everything else is fair game.

 

[Bkocats]

The "death penalty" will not be used, but pretty much everything else is fair game.

don't think the "death penalty" is appropriate here, anyway - never thought it was, for any case. That, IMO, only punishes the school going forward.
If wins are vacated, banners come down and those involved terminated - plus monies returned - for every year an ineligible athlete was used, then the punishment fits the crime. Roy should get a show cause - something that will effectively end his career. The stigma will cling to them for a long time.

Maybe I'm hoping for too much ? But you've not been wrong yet, AF9 - so.......