So if UNCC gave every student an ounce of cocaine it'd be OK? Sound logic.... Honestly, as bad as UL's actions were this is worse IMO. Systematic fraud for 20 years. This gotta lead to changes or the death of the NCAA.
NCAA: "UNC No Academic Violations"
- Thread starter MWes11
- Start date
6 years and the ncaa gives a 2 sentence response??
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if it didn't benefit students athletes primarily then why were student athletes the bulk of the students. if unc didn't help formulate this on purpose then how come an advisor say they were instructed to steer them and ace them.
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if it didn't benefit students athletes primarily then why were student athletes the bulk of the students. if unc didn't help formulate this on purpose then how come an advisor say they were instructed to steer them and ace them.
I was expecting a slap on the wrist. But a slap on the wrist would be a scathing punishment compared to this.
There's emails that show they sprinkled regular students in the classes to not raise red flags.
I wouldn't go that far. A free market in college bball would be bad IMO. I just say take away all academic requirements. The kids still have to be amateurs to be eligible but there is zero academic requirements. We would obviously still encourage players to take classes and work towards a degree, but if they don't want to they don't have to. Just be there to play ball. The NCAA essentially said it is ok to do that with their ruling.
Then why did they file the allegations in the first place? Care to address the Hairston drug and gun situation? Will Graves living in a house owned by Williams and dealing drugs? MacDonald and others getting illegal gifts from a multiple felon? Hairston and other players with dozens of parking tickets fixed. And for cars provided by the same multiple felon?
I may be done with it...just about as authentic a sport as WWF
Why do you keep referring to "easy" courses? What went on at unc*** was sham courses. No attendance, no class work, fake grades, and a paper turned in at the end of the semester. Yes, every school offers easy courses. Not every school offers "the Carolina Way" courses.
Yes I've been to college and graduated, and yes there were always a few good classes you could grab for easier credits. For example, I took History of Jazz, a 300 level class taught by a really cool guy. It was fun. It wasn't hard by any means but I learned a bunch about jazz and music in general. It helped me get 300 level credits I needed.
The difference is I didn't just hand in a two sentence paper once a semester and get an A. If you can't see the difference and understand that UNC committed academic fraud, then maybe you should have paid a little more attention in school.
If blatant academic fraud is out of the NCAA's "lack of institutional control" guideline, then the NCAA should disband. UNC is a cash cow for them and "too big to fail." The the NCAA gobbled up the bull ish.
Bottom line, you know your university cheated. You got away with it. Congrats. I agree there should be a discussion of whether there should be any rules at this point. But if you can't see the difference in what I described above and what UNC did, you are lost. If you think the NCAA can't punish over sham classes, look at Jim Harrick and UGA. They didn't want to. Congrats on being the NCAAs favorite son. Just admit it, and drop the high and mighty garbage.
I'm the same. I've lost a ton of interest as it is with how athletes are treated, bogus grades/degrees, crooked officiating and selective enforcement for certain schools.
Why waste time with this?
The NCAA has had much more pressing issues like prohibiting Cal and UK from celebrating his 500th win.
Here was mine:
NFL: We're trying to be the first sport to become extinct!
College Basketball: Hold my beer..
"Because the NCAA was doing their job. They were investigating (abeit very slowly)."
Oh, please. They didn't find out anything from the time they filed the allegations until the ruling. They caved because UNCheat threw millions into their defense and the NCAA didn't want to upset their cash cow. They thought the cheaters would accept a slap on the wrist, but when they saw they wouldn't even accept that, they let them off scot free. You can't honestly believe otherwise.
Oh, please. They didn't find out anything from the time they filed the allegations until the ruling. They caved because UNCheat threw millions into their defense and the NCAA didn't want to upset their cash cow. They thought the cheaters would accept a slap on the wrist, but when they saw they wouldn't even accept that, they let them off scot free. You can't honestly believe otherwise.
If im Louisville or any other team involved in paying players, I'm going out and giving some random guy 100k just to come be a student at my school. Then when the NCAA comes knocking, im gonna say "yeah I paid that player to come play, big whoop, I also paid a non student athlete. So it's fair."
This article alone tells you how corrupt the NCAA is...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=1750279
Most college students dream of getting a final exam with
questions such as: How many points is a 3-pointer worth?
That was among the questions on basic basketball knowledge on
the final exam -- and only test -- in Georgia assistant basketball
coach Jim Harrick Jr.'s Coaching Principles and Strategies of
Basketball class in 2001.
The 20-question test and transcripts of interviews with some of
the students in Harrick's class were among 1,500 pages of documents
released Wednesday by the university in its response to the NCAA
about rules violations in the basketball program.
The university agreed with the NCAA's findings, which included
violations of academic fraud and improper benefits.
Harrick's father, Jim Sr., was suspended, then resigned as
coach. The younger Harrick lost his job as an assistant, and the
school kept the team out of the Southeastern Conference and NCAA
tournaments.
The NCAA concluded Harrick Jr. "fraudulently awarded grades of
A to three men's basketball student-athletes" enrolled in the
course he taught in 2001, allowing them to miss class and tests.
Harrick Jr. also allegedly provided an extra benefit to student
athletes by the manner in which he conducted the course, the NCAA
found.
An attorney for the Harricks said Wednesday that Harrick Jr.
would not comment. A federal lawsuit filed last week accuses
university officials and others of defamation.
The names of Harrick's students who were interviewed were
blacked out in the papers.
All the students in the class were given an A grade, according
to the documents.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=1750279
Most college students dream of getting a final exam with
questions such as: How many points is a 3-pointer worth?
That was among the questions on basic basketball knowledge on
the final exam -- and only test -- in Georgia assistant basketball
coach Jim Harrick Jr.'s Coaching Principles and Strategies of
Basketball class in 2001.
The 20-question test and transcripts of interviews with some of
the students in Harrick's class were among 1,500 pages of documents
released Wednesday by the university in its response to the NCAA
about rules violations in the basketball program.
The university agreed with the NCAA's findings, which included
violations of academic fraud and improper benefits.
Harrick's father, Jim Sr., was suspended, then resigned as
coach. The younger Harrick lost his job as an assistant, and the
school kept the team out of the Southeastern Conference and NCAA
tournaments.
The NCAA concluded Harrick Jr. "fraudulently awarded grades of
A to three men's basketball student-athletes" enrolled in the
course he taught in 2001, allowing them to miss class and tests.
Harrick Jr. also allegedly provided an extra benefit to student
athletes by the manner in which he conducted the course, the NCAA
found.
An attorney for the Harricks said Wednesday that Harrick Jr.
would not comment. A federal lawsuit filed last week accuses
university officials and others of defamation.
The names of Harrick's students who were interviewed were
blacked out in the papers.
All the students in the class were given an A grade, according
to the documents.
Sooooo with that now out of the way - the NCAA can REALLY start to get serious about enforcing some rules and busting some balls via it's newly minted blue ribbon commission on college basketball...you know re-establish itself as a solid and needed institution. Why with the likes of Grant Hill and Mark Emmert it is now time to come down HARD on someone BIG to show they mean business!!
So to add insult to injury - they will probably so something to UK within the next 12 months... not at all joking. Probably over extra Chipotle Queso or some such BS.
And to the smug a'hole from UNCHEAT who is over here just for "Truth, justice and the American way".... please resume banging your cousin in your trailer to the soundtrack of "Star Wars"... Any state and institution that produces as big a fake and liar as John Edwards in politics stands to produce as equally fake an "Academic" institution. Please spare us all Kenny "the jet" Smith at what a "prestigious" place it is.
NO ONE SHOULD SCHEDULE THEM FOR ANY ATHELTICS - PERIOD - CREATE A SH*TSTORM.
So to add insult to injury - they will probably so something to UK within the next 12 months... not at all joking. Probably over extra Chipotle Queso or some such BS.
And to the smug a'hole from UNCHEAT who is over here just for "Truth, justice and the American way".... please resume banging your cousin in your trailer to the soundtrack of "Star Wars"... Any state and institution that produces as big a fake and liar as John Edwards in politics stands to produce as equally fake an "Academic" institution. Please spare us all Kenny "the jet" Smith at what a "prestigious" place it is.
NO ONE SHOULD SCHEDULE THEM FOR ANY ATHELTICS - PERIOD - CREATE A SH*TSTORM.
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And these weren’t just some electives- half their teams were majoring in the fraud. :joy:
Hey Tar Heel- get out of here. You’re scum. Your program is a fraud. And Dean Smith is the biggest phony in sports. Screw you.
Hopefully the MARKET would take care of a university that tries to supply the marketplace with BS classes for a made up degree. Frankly the entire on-line school degree programs from the "for-profits" are discounted in the "market." And to the degree that any serious employer gives much weight to someone with a African Studies degree from UNC...then I think the market and the SACS would take care of that in the end.
Buts honestly every college has BS classes like UK's floral design class that serves a couple purposes. It gives students a freebie as to credit hours and certainly puts dollars in the "professor's" pocket. I remember taking a martial arts class as an elective and it was taught by a professor who just happened to be a black belt. I am sure it gave him a few extra bucks to put in his pocket. Did it serve me as a student in anyway but to pad my GPA and move me through the system? Hell no. But where do we draw the line. Do we want the NCAA auditing every class as to its necessity? Its not going to happen and shouldnt.
It's not enough that these guys get in to college despite crap grades in HS, it's not enough that they get treated like rock stars, get free gear, free training facilities, tutors, travel the country for free, get out of school debt free but also get bogus degrees too?
Our society's passion for sports is more important than actual integrity and is okay with this?
Our society's passion for sports is more important than actual integrity and is okay with this?
You ignored the part of my post that shows inconsistency in your argument. But your fanbase has had their heads in the sand for the better part of three decades now, so that's not surprising.
We all read the allegations and the findings and the rulings. You repeating it back to us doesn't mean you're explaining anything new.
We're arguing that it's bogus (like the classes your student-athletes took), because it's inconsistent with previous NCAA rulings, doesn't at all address the allegation of a lack of institutional control (where an athletic department "has no idea" their athletes are being steered to fraudulent courses for 20 years, or knows and doesn't stop it), and undermines the very fabric of what the NCAA pretends to stand for. If this isn't in their jurisdiction, there is no jurisdiction.
But you know all that already. You just don't care because your school escaped the punishment they deserve, and, being a UNC fan, had rather laud that over rivals than be disgusted that an institution that exists primarily to educate chose to sacrifice its integrity to try and catch Kentucky and stave off Duke--and still failed.
I still don't know exactly why UNC is celebrating.. You avoided some penalties (that don't amount to much anyways), and we all know the banner was never coming down.
But now you can't hand out paper grades. You have to earn it. Your recruiting is still in the crapper and while you had a great run the last two years, those teams are gone. You still have to play the games and Duke still stands in your way.
But now you can't hand out paper grades. You have to earn it. Your recruiting is still in the crapper and while you had a great run the last two years, those teams are gone. You still have to play the games and Duke still stands in your way.
The "truth" is that the NCAA had already set precedent in punishing a school outside the academic sphere in the Penn State case. There were no academic transgressions there whatsoever. Your argument is as flawed as the NCAA's .
Also, why did UNCheat even establish these fake classes if not to benefit athletes? Sure, it was carefully concealed but, it was still cheating and everyone knows it.
Raise all the banners you like but, UNCheat and Dean Smith are cheaters in the mind of most college basketball fans.
It’s more than heads in the sand. They are hypocrites. Anyone who’s been a college basketball fan for more than 5 minutes has long known UNC fans to be the most sanctimonious in all of the sport. Nobody looks down from the ivory tower like UNC fans.
But the truth is they and the godfather of their program Dean are nothing but phonies.
I have always disliked UNC but I have zero respect for them anymore. There are few things worse in life than a phony. That’s all that program is. They’re scum.
I believe I read where it was 53% non athletes to 47% athletes. I'm sure these percentages match the ratio for the entire campus...you're a liar by omission
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Here’s the thing that people are missing about UNC, especially when it comes to other incidents such as Louisville, Memphis, etc. Nowhere are there requirements written about what a class or major must consist of. The NCAA does not dictate that a course must have five tests throughout a semester or that a degree actually be useful in the real world, that’s determined by the universities themselves. Derrick Rose possibly cheated on an SAT. That was done away from the university and violated specific rules for that standardized test that are followed by students and universities all over the country. Louisville paid players to come to their school. This is expressly forbidden by the NCAA’s rules.
Unfortunately, in this case there are no rules about the quality of education a “student-athlete” must receive or how rigorous their studies have to be. Does that mean this whole scheme wasn’t unethical? Absolutely not. It also highlights the absurdity of the Carolina Way BS they’ve shoveled for years. The problem is that at the end of the day they found a loophole in the system that hasn’t been closed yet. Carolina has basically sacrificed the reputation and validity of their academic status in order to make college easier for their athletes, the question now is will other universities decide to do the same?
Unfortunately, in this case there are no rules about the quality of education a “student-athlete” must receive or how rigorous their studies have to be. Does that mean this whole scheme wasn’t unethical? Absolutely not. It also highlights the absurdity of the Carolina Way BS they’ve shoveled for years. The problem is that at the end of the day they found a loophole in the system that hasn’t been closed yet. Carolina has basically sacrificed the reputation and validity of their academic status in order to make college easier for their athletes, the question now is will other universities decide to do the same?
Carolina will be emboldened to cheat more.
F them.
Harvey Weinstein of the NCAA.
F them.
Harvey Weinstein of the NCAA.
Jay Bilas was, and continues to be, wrong on his analysis of this case. The fact that the actual outcome matches the outcome of his faulty reasoning does not change the fact that his reasoning was faulty.
Further, this was not outside the NCAA's jurisdiction. It was well within it and that is also not why UNC got away with their cheating.
The problem was the game changing nature of Deb Crowder's testimony, and the lack of specific evidence to refute any of that testimony.
I fully believe that Crowder gave misleading testimony after being well coached on what to say. The problem with that is that in order for the COI to throw out that testimony, they need very specific, on the record evidence to refute her on very specific points. Without that, they're stuck. And the COI did not have the evidence needed to do that.
That's why they ruled this way. Not because they didn't have a case, not because it's outside of their jurisdiction, and certainly not because UNC was innocent. The process allowed UNC to hamstring them with one piece of evidence.
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If the UNC case doens't fall under the blanket "lack of institutional control" charge, where they can effectively punish you for anything, then the NCAA doesn't need to exist.
...and once challenged the NCAA had to undo what they had initially done. I never agreed with the NCAA having authority over PSU's situation. And in the end neither did the NCAA.
UNC created the fake classes....for everyone...in order to serve a specific "under-served" community. This is common at most universities these days. UNC did not exclude non student athletes so it was a systemic problem that had to do with academics....then athletes in that "under-served" community simply gravitated to them.