Moorhead hire

[RutherfordBHayes]

Moorhead was not a bad hire. This is not a Cohen mistake.

On paper, Moorhead was a fantastic hire. He has been successful at every step. His offenses were all great. Cohen was obviously prepared the minute Mullen left and had his man signed within days. That was a good job by our AD.

Now, you can argue all you want about Moorhead shortcomings and reasons for prior successes that haven’t translated to MSU, and most are valid. I’m not defending Moorhead. Clearly, this staff hasn’t performed at a level which we are accustomed, but none of that is on the AD. It was not foreseeable.

If anything, the baseball hire was bungled. I understand that Cohen was prepared, but the process fell apart. Now, the opposite happened, and our 5th choice seems to have turned out to be a solid manager. But baseball hire is the debacle; not football.

I’ll be judging Cohen on how he handles everything going forward.

 

[MarkDallas]

Agree.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Everybody thought it was a great hire initially. This guy has been a good coach everywhere he has been. His first season at PSU they added 100 yards a game to their offense. He didnt just forget how to coach. He will get it straightened out

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

The Cohen mistake was giving Moorhead the extension.... as well as not being able to manage a MSU game day with 40k people....MSU Athletics Marketing is at Croom levels....our Football recruiting budget is last in the SEC... our Coaching staff is one of the lowest paid in the SEC.... if an AD can’t handle Finebaum, how is he going to handle Jimmy Sexton.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Is it fair to say this guy bungled the baseball hire for Cohen?

https://youtu.be/XBZJkMm-bw4

 

[RutherfordBHayes]

To preempt the comment; “but he’s the AD, the buck stops here.”

You don’t fire the CEO because his VP of Sales ran off with the secretary and wrecked the company car.

Now, if 2 or 3 VP’s do it... yeah.

 

[The Situation]

If nothing else we closed that 2018 recruiting class and continued to bring in the same level talent we were getting before, so there wasn't a gap. We've weathered the storm nicely considering the gapped up classes Mullen left us in 2016 and 2017. So, the program is still in decent shape going forward, for whoever the coach may be.

 

[FreeDawg]

That’s not entirely true. He was the OC at OConn for 1 year and was demoted to QB coach after having one of the worst offenses in football. He had success at PSU but he had a NFL QB, TE, a lottery pick RB, and was the more talented roster in every game except Mich & OSU. When you look at his career as a play caller, he only succeeded when the deck is heavily stacked in his favor. That won’t happen often in the SEC West if you aren’t Bama.

 

[RutherfordBHayes]

The Cohen mistake was giving Moorhead the extension.... as well as not being able to manage a MSU game day with 40k people....MSU Athletics Marketing is at Croom levels....our Football recruiting budget is last in the SEC... our Coaching staff is one of the lowest paid in the SEC.... if an AD can’t handle Finebaum, how is he going to handle Jimmy Sexton.

No extension is a vote of no confidence, and you’re toast on the recruiting trail.

Budget has been a problem since 1878, I can’t put that on Cohen.

I agree with the rest.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

They will always give the coach an extension every year. It shows continuity for recruiting and hiring purposes. Often they negotiate the buy out lower so the extension does not make it any harder to can the coach. And we are always on the bottom end with pay. I'm always amazed that people come on here and say we can get any coach to come here for 3 mill a year. 3 mill ain't **** these days unless you are talking to an FCS maybe

 

[ronpolk]

Everybody thought it was a great hire initially. This guy has been a good coach everywhere he has been. His first season at PSU they added 100 yards a game to their offense. He didnt just forget how to coach. He will get it straightened out

He did all that as an OC. He’s in over is head as a head coach. He can’t seem to get the team to be fundamentally sound. And he has allowed the team to function with no identity or direction. Being a good OC does not mean you will figure it out as a head coach

 

[RutherfordBHayes]

He did all that as an OC. He’s in over is head as a head coach. He can’t seem to get the team to be fundamentally sound. And he has allowed the team to function with no identity or direction. Being a good OC does not mean you will figure it out as a head coach

But all of this is through the benefit of hindsight. I think most of us agree. The original point is that this was unforeseen, and not the AD’s fault.

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

3 to 3.5 million a year is a nice salary and will get you a superb coordinator from a power 5 program or a successful group of 5 HC. You can get an FCS guy for a lot less. And I'm sure if the right guy has success, he can climb toward 5 million, maybe 5.5. State isn't rich, but definitely not poor either. Thanks, $EC.

They will always give the coach an extension every year. It shows continuity for recruiting and hiring purposes. Often they negotiate the buy out lower so the extension does not make it any harder to can the coach. And we are always on the bottom end with pay. I'm always amazed that people come on here and say we can get any coach to come here for 3 mill a year. 3 mill ain't **** these days unless you are talking to an FCS maybe

 

[Indognito]

It's probably been said before but Moorhead is a beta male in an alpha male job. Nice guy in a job where nice guys finish last.

 

[ronpolk]

But all of this is through the benefit of hindsight. I think most of us agree. The original point is that this was unforeseen, and not the AD’s fault.

Yeah, which is why I didn’t reply to you but rather Rupert who referenced Moorhead’s OC success. I agree with your point. Not pissed at Cohen at all.

 

[thatsbaseball]

May be hindsight to some but should have not been to an AD at a power 5 school. Being a successful OC at an elite B1G will never guarantee being a successful HC at a second tier SEC school. PSU wins with unlimited budgets, epic facilities and elite athletes...WHEN we do win it's with blood and sweat and unbelievable dedication from a bunch tough coaches and kids who usually have to be "coaxed" to come here and then have to be intensely DEVELOPED in mind and body after they get here. This job takes a smart, tough individual who's probably dealt with a lot of adversity to get where he is not a guy that has had a relatively easy life in the coaching profession. Cohen may understand baseball pretty well but I don't think he understands what it takes to be a head coach in the SEC. Put simply, Cohen is not an experienced AD, was in over his head making this hire and screwed it up.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

The extension is meaningless

The Cohen mistake was giving Moorhead the extension.... as well as not being able to manage a MSU game day with 40k people....MSU Athletics Marketing is at Croom levels....our Football recruiting budget is last in the SEC... our Coaching staff is one of the lowest paid in the SEC.... if an AD can’t handle Finebaum, how is he going to handle Jimmy Sexton.

It’s all about the buyout number in the contract. That didn’t change, so it doesn’t matter if it’s 4 years, 3 years or 10 years.

Also, the extension last year was part of his original agreement. State law limits all contracts to a max 4 year term, so when we or UM hire new coaches, it is agreed upon there will be an auto extension at end of year one.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

He did all that as an OC. He’s in over is head as a head coach. He can’t seem to get the team to be fundamentally sound. And he has allowed the team to function with no identity or direction. Being a good OC does not mean you will figure it out as a head coach

Google Fordham or just google Joe Moorhead and look at his coaching record. He has been a winning head coach. Penn State was not his first job. Think about what you say please

 

[Duke Humphrey]

Being the head coach at Fordham is like being the head coach at a 5a HS in Mississippi

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Yeah, which is why I didn’t reply to you but rather Rupert who referenced Moorhead’s OC success. I agree with your point. Not pissed at Cohen at all.

But you are not correct in your statement. He was very successful as a head coach at Fordham. And I'm sure it's easier to win at PSU than it is here. I make that statement all the time. This is an extremely hard place to win 9 games a year. Must be easier to win at Fordham too. Guess he shoulda went to Austin Peay or ULL before coming here

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

There is a narrative from people who just do not like Cohen that it is all on him and it is just an agenda because they just do not like him.

Folks seem to have forgotten what a cluster17 the coaching world was last year, especially with Tenn. Moorhead looked like an extremely qualified candidate on paper and he is a good coach. He has just proven to not be a good fit for the SEC where you have to have as much power as you do finesse in your offense or you will get run over.

I do feel for the guy because I think he was genuinely surprised at what happened and hearing about countless threads of a coaching replacement.

I really hope that he is going to Rutgers at the end of the season. At the present moment, that is the best option for everyone.

I wonder what is going through Cohen's head right now if the Rutgers thing isn't happening because I have yet to see a replacement name that I honestly think would come here that might actually take the job after we had to fire a guy after only two years.

I'm not championing another year for Moorhead at all. The only thing that would make me somewhat satisfied with that is a solid win over Ole Miss, a bowl win and a top 25 recruiting class... but I still would not have a lot of anticipation for next season.

Gonna be a long week I think.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Come on Ibleedmaroon. You have seen all the posters with the coaching lists on here. Piece of cake. All we gotta do is wave 3 mill and we will have a dozen qualified winners to pick from. Next year will be a 9 win season no problem. This is a stocked team set to win with a floor of 7 to 8 wins every year. Top 25 minimum. We could win with any half way competent coach

 

[Allday.sixpack]

Moorhead was not a bad hire. This is not a Cohen mistake.

On paper, Moorhead was a fantastic hire. He has been successful at every step. His offenses were all great. Cohen was obviously prepared the minute Mullen left and had his man signed within days. That was a good job by our AD.

Now, you can argue all you want about Moorhead shortcomings and reasons for prior successes that haven’t translated to MSU, and most are valid. I’m not defending Moorhead. Clearly, this staff hasn’t performed at a level which we are accustomed, but none of that is on the AD. It was not foreseeable.

If anything, the baseball hire was bungled. I understand that Cohen was prepared, but the process fell apart. Now, the opposite happened, and our 5th choice seems to have turned out to be a solid manager. But baseball hire is the debacle; not football.

I’ll be judging Cohen on how he handles everything going forward.

Who appropriates money for strength and conditioning coach, special team coach, OL coach, DB coach, etc...
The lack of funding for quality, proven assistants is on the AD.

 

[MSUDC11]

But you are not correct in your statement. He was very successful as a head coach at Fordham. And I'm sure it's easier to win at PSU than it is here. I make that statement all the time. This is an extremely hard place to win 9 games a year. Must be easier to win at Fordham too. Guess he shoulda went to Austin Peay or ULL before coming here

The “he was only good because of the talent at Penn State” argument has always had its holes to me, mostly because of the fact that he was really darn good at Fordham too. Mullen coached Tim Tebow and Alex Smith, he pretty obviously was helped by how special those guys were as well, but he had other qualities that made him a good head coach. Moorhead has yet to show many of those qualities yet, but I feel like he has at least some of them or he wouldn’t have been successful at previous stops.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

Who appropriates money for strength and conditioning coach, special team coach, OL coach, DB coach, etc...
The lack of funding for quality, proven assistants is on the AD.

I have to agree that if we want to be competitive against Bama and LSU we need to improve on S&C snd O line coaches and for sure special teams. It takes money to keep good people.

 

[Cooterpoot]

Google Fordham or just google Joe Moorhead and look at his coaching record. He has been a winning head coach. Penn State was not his first job. Think about what you say please

He was getting fired at BG before he left and was demoted at UConn. He struggled at all his bigger jobs but Penn St and he had a generational player along with NFL talent.

 

[thatsbaseball]

His pedigree was extremely weak for an SEC HEAD coach......

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

He was getting fired at BG before he left and was demoted at UConn. He struggled at all his bigger jobs but Penn St and he had a generational player along with NFL talent.

I guess success is in the eye of the beholder. To me taking a team that went 1-10 and then going 6-5, 12-2, 11-3 and 9-3 is not too shabby. May not be good enough for you 17ers tho. Or at UConn he took OC job in 09 and won big east in 10. Not sure what went south there but he did get demoted. I guess adding 100 yards a game to the offense at PSU is not adequate either. I am not sure what BG is. He did not coach at Bowling Green. Maybe if we hired Jesus ??

 

[blacklistedbully]

Come on Ibleedmaroon. You have seen all the posters with the coaching lists on here. Piece of cake. All we gotta do is wave 3 mill and we will have a dozen qualified winners to pick from. Next year will be a 9 win season no problem. This is a stocked team set to win with a floor of 7 to 8 wins every year. Top 25 minimum. We could win with any half way competent coach

I am hard-pressed to recall anyone actually saying this, but you go ahead and rant on, straw man.

I've seen many suggest we could pony up anywhere from $3 mill to $5 mill. That salary range puts us well beyond the point of, "just FCS coaches". Here's a list of some top salaries fitting that range:

Scott Frost	Nebraska	Big Ten	$5,000,000
Mike Gundy	Oklahoma State	Big 12	$5,000,000
Willie Taggart	Florida State	ACC	$5,000,000
Lovie Smith	Illinois	Big Ten	$5,000,000
Gary Patterson	Texas Christian	Big 12	$4,840,717
James Franklin	Penn State	Big Ten	$4,800,000
Lincoln Riley	Oklahoma	Big 12	$4,800,000
Kirk Ferentz	Iowa	Big Ten	$4,700,000
Ryan Day	Ohio State	Big Ten	$4,500,000
Mark Dantonio	Michigan State	Big Ten	$4,390,417
Chris Petersen	Washington	Pac-12	$4,377,500
David Shaw	Stanford	Pac-12	$4,311,543
Will Muschamp	South Carolina	SEC	$4,200,000
Mark Stoops	Kentucky	SEC	$4,013,600
Justin Fuente	Virginia Tech	ACC	$4,000,000
Jeremy Pruitt	Tennessee	SEC	$3,846,000
Jeff Brohm	Purdue	Big Ten	$3,800,000
Kyle Whittingham	Utah	Pac-12	$3,787,917
Paul Chryst	Wisconsin	Big Ten	$3,750,000
Kliff Kingsbury	Texas Tech	Big 12	$3,703,975
Pat Fitzgerald	Northwestern	Big Ten	$3,619,775
Bronco Mendenhall	Virginia	ACC	$3,550,000
P.J. Fleck	Minnesota	Big Ten	$3,550,000
Chad Morris	Arkansas	SEC	$3,500,000
Ed Orgeron	LSU	SEC	$3,500,000
Matt Campbell	Iowa State	Big 12	$3,500,000
Mike Leach	Washington State	Pac-12	$3,500,000
Chris Klieman	Kansas State	Big 12	$3,500,000
Mack Brown	North Carolina	ACC	$3,500,000
Chip Kelly	UCLA	Pac-12	$3,300,000
Geoff Collins	Georgia Tech	ACC	$3,300,000
Scott Satterfield	Louisville	ACC	$3,250,000
Neal Brown	West Virginia	Big 12	$3,125,000
Manny Diaz	Miami (Fla.)	ACC	$3,100,000
Pat Narduzzi	Pittsburgh	ACC	$3,017,718
Dave Doeren	North Carolina State	ACC	$3,000,000
Matt Luke	Mississippi	SEC	$3,000,000

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And here are some below that range:

Derek Mason	Vanderbilt	SEC	$2,812,523
Les Miles	Kansas	Big 12	$2,775,000
Clay Helton	USC	Pac-12	$2,625,965
Mike Norvell	Memphis	AAC	$2,600,000
Joe Moorhead	Mississippi State	SEC	$2,600,000
David Cutcliffe	Duke	ACC	$2,540,928
Steve Addazio	Boston College	ACC	$2,514,859
Mario Cristobal	Oregon	Pac-12	$2,500,000
Mike Locksley	Maryland	Big Ten	$2,500,000
Dino Babers	Syracuse	ACC	$2,401,206
Mel Tucker	Colorado	Pac-12	$2,400,000
Barry Odom	Missouri	SEC	$2,350,000
Chris Ash	Rutgers	Big Ten	$2,200,000
Ken Niumatalolo	Navy	AAC	$2,163,000
Brian Kelly	Notre Dame	Ind.	$2,129,638
Luke Fickell	Cincinnati	AAC	$2,000,000
Kevin Sumlin	Arizona	Pac-12	$2,000,000
Herm Edwards	Arizona State	Pac-12	$2,000,000
Rod Carey	Temple	AAC	$2,000,000
Sonny Dykes	Southern Methodist	AAC	$2,000,000
Jonathan Smith	Oregon State	Pac-12	$1,900,008
Dave Clawson	Wake Forest	ACC	$1,831,580
Tom Allen	Indiana	Big Ten	$1,830,000
Mike Bobo	Colorado State	Mt. West	$1,800,000
Major Applewhite	Houston	AAC	$1,750,000
Josh Heupel	Central Florida	AAC	$1,700,000
Bryan Harsin	Boise State	Mt. West	$1,650,010
Willie Fritz	Tulane	AAC	$1,629,000
Jeff Tedford	Fresno State	Mt. West	$1,550,000
Philip Montgomery	Tulsa	AAC	$1,518,177
Justin Wilcox	California	Pac-12	$1,500,000
Hugh Freeze	Liberty	Ind.	$1,500,000
Seth Littrell	North Texas	C-USA	$1,425,000
Craig Bohl	Wyoming	Mt. West	$1,412,000
Mike Houston	East Carolina	AAC	$1,300,000
Jason Candle	Toledo	MAC	$1,125,000
Frank Wilson	Texas-San Antonio	C-USA	$1,100,000
Randy Edsall	Connecticut	AAC	$1,100,000
Lane Kiffin	Florida Atlantic	C-USA	$1,000,000
Charlie Strong	South Florida	AAC	$1,000,000
Matt Rhule	Baylor	Big 12	$1,000,000
Mike Bloomgren	Rice	C-USA	$1,000,000
Butch Davis	Florida International	C-USA	$945,000
Bill Clark	UAB	C-USA	$900,000
Rocky Long	San Diego State	Mt. West	$873,576
Billy Napier	Louisiana-Lafayette	Sun Belt	$850,000
Blake Anderson	Arkansas State	Sun Belt	$825,000
Bob Davie	New Mexico	Mt. West	$823,740
Rick Stockstill	Middle Tennessee	C-USA	$803,004
Tim Lester	Western Michigan	MAC	$800,000
Tyson Helton	Western Kentucky	C-USA	$800,000
Jake Spavital	Texas State	Sun Belt	$800,000
Doc Holliday	Marshall	C-USA	$762,570
Eliah Drinkwitz	Appalachian State	Sun Belt	$750,000
Skip Holtz	Louisiana Tech	C-USA	$700,000
Dana Dimel	Texas-El Paso	C-USA	$700,000
Will Healy	Charlotte	C-USA	$700,000
Bobby Wilder	Old Dominion	C-USA	$654,667
Chad Lunsford	Georgia Southern	Sun Belt	$650,000
Jim McElwain	Central Michigan	MAC	$640,900
Walt Bell	Massachusetts	Ind.	$625,000
Steve Campbell	South Alabama	Sun Belt	$600,000
Tony Sanchez	UNLV	Mt. West	$600,000
Brent Brennan	San Jose State	Mt. West	$590,424
Frank Solich	Ohio	MAC	$580,331
Shawn Elliott	Georgia State	Sun Belt	$569,000
Chuck Martin	Miami (Ohio)	MAC	$524,826
Jay Hopson	Southern Mississippi	C-USA	$500,000
Jay Norvell	Nevada	Mt. West	$500,000
Thomas Hammock	Northern Illinois	MAC	$500,000
Scot Loeffler	Bowling Green	MAC	$500,000

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[Rupert Jenkins]

And Blacklistedbully....no doubt we can find another coach for 3 mill. Not a proven winning P5 coach. Maybe 5 tho. For all I know HUD or Napier might could be hired and might do a better job. I just think there are some ignorant statements made on here that are not factually true. There are for sure better coaches out there. Can they win here ? Idk.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

He got demoted because UCONN hired a new head coach who brought in his own OC. Yeah, the UCONN O was bad in 2010, but was worse in 2011.

 

[BingleCocktail]

A reasonable post, and for the most part, I agree. I disagree with a "fantastic" hire. I'd say it was a justifiably solid hire.

And, yes, hindsight is always 20/20, but we need to have a keen eye on this question: "Are we headed in the right direction?"

Right now, I'd say we are not

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

The team is very disappointing to say the least. The question is what to do and I know everyone is suggesting things they think will help. I look at all the factors and see it differently than most on here I guess. I don't think it's time to blow it up yet

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Come on Ibleedmaroon. You have seen all the posters with the coaching lists on here. Piece of cake. All we gotta do is wave 3 mill and we will have a dozen qualified winners to pick from. Next year will be a 9 win season no problem. This is a stocked team set to win with a floor of 7 to 8 wins every year. Top 25 minimum. We could win with any half way competent coach

I've never heard that said. All I have heard is 5-7 posts a day about a position that is NOT OPEN YET, with lists and lists of supposed saviors that are argued over and wished for, including close friends and relatives of Hudspeth, when no one has any idea if we actually need a new coach and who and who not will going to be available.

If it sounds like I a pissed, I'm not. I'm just tired of a multi-thread discussion that has a 50/50 shot of being for naught. It also amuses me because every hire Cohen has made has been a candidate that really wasn't talked about much.

Right now I'm on the Joe to Rutgers and hiring a defensive guy who has enough sense to hire good coordinators but I also want a new truck and a winning lottery ticket for Christmas.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Are you getting paid by the post now ? **** man take a knee.

 

[ronpolk]

Google Fordham or just google Joe Moorhead and look at his coaching record. He has been a winning head coach. Penn State was not his first job. Think about what you say please

Or I could just watch the **** show he’s put on the field here and not have to worry about Fordham. I’m guessing the sec has a little bit better opposing coaches than whatever conference Fordham is in.

 

[ronpolk]

The team is very disappointing to say the least. The question is what to do and I know everyone is suggesting things they think will help. I look at all the factors and see it differently than most on here I guess. I don't think it's time to blow it up yet

Please answer 2 questions for me:

1) what has to happen to make you blow it up?

2) what have you seen from Moorhead at Mississippi state that gives you encouragement for what he will do in the future here?

 

[HumpDawgy]

While he has definitely showed us that he is not a head coach, I haven't seen any evidence that he is an OC either.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Let's hire Marshall's coach. He's our Huckleberry.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I've never heard that said. All I have heard is 5-7 posts a day about a position that is NOT OPEN YET, with lists and lists of supposed saviors that are argued over and wished for, including close friends and relatives of Hudspeth, when no one has any idea if we actually need a new coach and who and who not will going to be available.

If it sounds like I a pissed, I'm not. I'm just tired of a multi-thread discussion that has a 50/50 shot of being for naught.

Maybe as tired as pro-Hud folks are of you endlessly suggesting only friends & relatives of his could want him as HC?** Winking