LOCKED - KC and Houston plan protest tonight.

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engie

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May 29, 2011
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Ok -- so how am I supposed to actually tell the two apart? The easiest way is for the good folks marching on behalf of something we can almost all mostly agree upon to adjust their slogan a little bit to differentiate themselves from the insanity. I've already seen that start to happen. But the NBA REALLY let that horse out of the barn with some of their woke stuff. I thought the NFL played it almost perfectly last night. That's a method of protest that I can get behind. Give it the same air time -- let's show unity -- and the best way to accomplish that is taking it off the National Anthem and avoid pissing off a pretty high percentage of people that will absolutely refuse to hear what you have to say afterwards. This would have never even become a controversy had it been handled in such a manner and we'd all be better off for it.

It's like the difference between protesting and rioting. I feel it's the job of peaceful protesters to self-police, and to stop rioting within their ranks in it's extreme infancy. To the point it never makes news. I'm sure this is what happens at 90+% of the time. But you've got these pockets of people that just want to watch the world burn and authorities in those locations more than happy to allow them to do just that. At which point the equal and opposite crazies come out and you've got a Wisconsin situation all over again. Something we haven't seen the last of. Calling the guard AFTER that clash of ideologies kills people should put those actual governors on trial IMO. Anyone could see that coming from a mile away.
 

Dawgzilla

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Mar 3, 2008
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Ok -- so how am I supposed to actually tell the two apart? The easiest way is for the good folks marching on behalf of something we can almost all mostly agree upon to adjust their slogan a little bit to differentiate themselves from the insanity. I've already seen that start to happen. But the NBA REALLY let that horse out of the barn with some of their woke stuff. I thought the NFL played it almost perfectly last night. That's a method of protest that I can get behind. Give it the same air time -- let's show unity -- and the best way to accomplish that is taking it off the National Anthem and avoid pissing off a pretty high percentage of people that will absolutely refuse to hear what you have to say afterwards. This would have never even become a controversy had it been handled in such a manner and we'd all be better off for it.

It's like the difference between protesting and rioting. I feel it's the job of peaceful protesters to self-police, and to stop rioting within their ranks in it's extreme infancy. To the point it never makes news. I'm sure this is what happens at 90+% of the time. But you've got these pockets of people that just want to watch the world burn and authorities in those locations more than happy to allow them to do just that. At which point the equal and opposite crazies come out and you've got a Wisconsin situation all over again. Something we haven't seen the last of. Calling the guard AFTER that clash of ideologies kills people should put those actual governors on trial IMO. Anyone could see that coming from a mile away.

I think the point is that, right now, you are in the minority in confusing the two. Based on current use and perception, the bare use of the phrase is incapable of suggesting a connection to the organization.

Your point is valid, though, and the BLM organization would be better served in changing its name if it wants to gain any type of brand recognition. OTOH, if your confusion becomes more widespread, then use of the phrase as a rallying cry will likely diminish.
 

ckDOG

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Dec 11, 2007
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Fair question.

Trump's net worth has decreased by a billion dollars since he has been President. Can any other President say the same?

If there are any other Presidents as heavily invested in commercial real estate that failed managing a national emergency and thereby tanking the economy - my answer is that many. Inflation adjusted, of course.
 

Drebin

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Aug 22, 2012
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I think the point is that, right now, you are in the minority in confusing the two. Based on current use and perception, the bare use of the phrase is incapable of suggesting a connection to the organization.

Your point is valid, though, and the BLM organization would be better served in changing its name if it wants to gain any type of brand recognition. OTOH, if your confusion becomes more widespread, then use of the phrase as a rallying cry will likely diminish.

I don't think he's in the minority. You've got a bunch of young hipster anarchists burning cities and spraying BLM all over the rubble. Honest news outlets are showing this and the public is turning against it - to the point that polling on the term "Black Lives Matter" has gone underwater on approval in Wisconsin. It's not a bad thing to suggest that black lives matter, and I actually like the way Obama said it during his DNC speech: "black lives matter, no more, but no less." But the violence, intimidation, and militant anarchy that's being done in the name of BLM has destroyed any ability for mainstream folks to embrace the movement - black and white. Those folks are then called racist, which makes it worse. And we've heard BLM organizers call themselves a "marxist organization" out of their own mouths.
 

SheltonChoked

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Exhibit number 1,658,456 of why you're the dumbest poster on SPS. Statements like this are extremely low-IQ. Like, retard level IQ. Like CNN viewer-level IQ.

Donald Trump is the first president in more than a half century to actually see his net worth decline while president, by the way.

Cite?

Since he is the first president in over half a century to not release his tax returns you have no idea what his net worth was or is.
 

Ibdancin

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If there are any other Presidents as heavily invested in commercial real estate that failed managing a national emergency and thereby tanking the economy - my answer is that many. Inflation adjusted, of course.

Trump's net worth had dropped that Billion by Oct 2018 and had nothing to do with Covid.
 

SheltonChoked

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Since there is a belief that people stop committing crimes when they are not in poverty and they are protesting over the effects of poverty and it's only happening in Black communities ..Here is what I want to see happen:

1- A commitment from the players to pool their money together and set up a fund:

2- To give every family that is classified as poverty no LESS than 1 million each.

3- Don't exclude gang members...

4- Don't exclude those in prison.

5- Don't excluded drug dealers...etc.


I also want to see them agree to continue to fund that fund.

The NBA alone could do that with ease. When you add in the NFL and MLB..... It's easy.

So you are in favor of wealth transfer from the rich to the poor? I thought that was SOCIALISM!!!

Many NFL and NBA athletes give money and houses to get people out of poverty. Like JJ Watt and Deshaun Watson.

https://www.deshaunwatsonfoundation.org/

But that doesn't fit your anger agenda.

FYI, there are over 40 million Americans in poverty, giving each of them a million dollars means you want a wealth transfer of $40 trillion dollars. That's 2x the US GDP.
 

Dawgzilla

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I don't think he's in the minority. You've got a bunch of young hipster anarchists burning cities and spraying BLM all over the rubble. Honest news outlets are showing this and the public is turning against it - to the point that polling on the term "Black Lives Matter" has gone underwater on approval in Wisconsin. It's not a bad thing to suggest that black lives matter, and I actually like the way Obama said it during his DNC speech: "black lives matter, no more, but no less." But the violence, intimidation, and militant anarchy that's being done in the name of BLM has destroyed any ability for mainstream folks to embrace the movement - black and white. Those folks are then called racist, which makes it worse. And we've heard BLM organizers call themselves a "marxist organization" out of their own mouths.

The USPTO says the public perception is that BLACK LIVES MATTER is a social movement and not a specific organization. You are free to disagree with that conclusion, but public perception does not mean 50% + 1, it means that is the prevailing perception such that people who think otherwise are not a significant portion of the market place.

And your post raises two different points...while people are undoubtedly growing weary of things done in the name of the BLM movement, thst does not mean that people are equating the movement with the organization. Things can certainly change, and quickly, but I dont think anyone shoukd br triggered by the mere use of the phrase.

To be transparent, I belong to an organization that wanted to promote unity and handed out Tshirts with various phrases including Black Lives Matter. I didnt wear it, because I didnt like the current connotation, but I didnt cate that others wore it.
 

SheltonChoked

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I mean per them and the ones I have read here. That's the issue. msgtrglf guy made a list somewhere here. It checks EVERYTHING off the list.

No crimes means no need for interaction with police.

No poverty means no money issues.

They literally have the ability to fix everything they are preaching to us about. Not only do they solve the issues, they gain more fans!

It's a win win win situation!


I forgot... Another win is that people get to watch sports and not see a political message....

Your grasp of math and reality is stunning. Just how much money do you think professional sports makes?


FYI the global professional sports market (that's all paid athletes worldwide) made less than half Jeff Bezos net worth in 2019.
 

SheltonChoked

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Feb 27, 2008
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Imagine not physically fighting the cop, putting him in a headlock, having a knife while doing all of that with a record of violence known to them and NOT reaching in your car...

Problem.... solved. Just like with the NFL, NBA, MLB all pooling their money to literally solve the issues that create this according to them in a matter of a day.

You are really bad at math, or have no idea what poverty, or money is.
 

DawgInThe256

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The NFL is seeing the unintended consequences of trying to make everyone happy

I didn't watch the anthem live, but from news reports this morning it sounds like the playing of the "Black National Anthem" caused more problems than it solved. The players didn't want to be put in a position where they had to stand for both anthems, and didn't want the optics of standing for the Black National Anthem and kneeling for the National Anthem.

At this point, the NFL would be better off forcing the teams to stay in the locker room until the anthem is over.
 

Ibdancin

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I didn't watch the anthem live, but from news reports this morning it sounds like the playing of the "Black National Anthem" caused more problems than it solved. The players didn't want to be put in a position where they had to stand for both anthems, and didn't want the optics of standing for the Black National Anthem and kneeling for the National Anthem.

At this point, the NFL would be better off forcing the teams to stay in the locker room until the anthem is over.


Yeah I saw the videos of people booing. They are only making things worse.
 

jethreauxdawg

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Dec 20, 2010
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How did he fail

If there are any other Presidents as heavily invested in commercial real estate that failed managing a national emergency and thereby tanking the economy - my answer is that many. Inflation adjusted, of course.
According to the infectious disease experts, he saved millions of lives. I call that winning.
 

dog12

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Sep 15, 2016
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This may be just a point of order, but I think it goes to the heart of some of the disagreement here. While things could change over time, right now, legally, "BLACK LIVES MATTER" is not a trademark owned or associated with any person or organization. It is an "informational, social, or political statement" that is incapable of identifying a particular source.

I am not aware of any litigation over the term, but dozens of trademark applications have been filed on the phrase, and the USPTO routinely rejects them for the above stated reason.

Viewing evidence of the wide use of the phrase, the USPTO has determined the public perceives this phrase as support for a social movement and not as an identifier of any particular source of goods or services.

In short, there is a difference between the BLM movement and the BLM organization. I realize you do not agree, and things could change over time based on how the slogan continues to be used. But maybe give people the benefit of the doubt when they use the phrase without suggesting Marxist ideals.


Interesting. I was unaware that the USPTO is refusing Trademarks for "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER."

Regardless, when I hear the phrases "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER," I think of angry protesters/rioters. The thought of these phrases being support for a social movement never crosses my mind when I hear those phrases.

In my opinion, even the most well-intentioned person does race relations a disservice whenever he/she uses the phrases "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER."

Why is there a need to bring in any racial aspect into your complaint? Couldn't the complainant argue the same position without bringing race into it?

For example, one could argue that Officer Chauvin unnecessarily put his knee on the back of Floyd's neck and that is the direct cause of Floyd's death. Thus, one could argue, Chauvin should be charged with Manslaughter. ALL LIVES MATTER . . . or, simply . . . LIVES MATTER.

In my opinion, there's no need to bring race into the complaint. You can effectively complain without injecting race into your complaint.

Injecting race into the complaint INHERENTLY creates DIVISION . . . along racial lines and ideological lines, as clearly demonstrated over the past few months.

Thus, "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER" should be put out to pasture.
 

Ibdancin

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Prelim results in. 17k fans allowed and boos. viewership down 16%.


With the coronavirus pandemic still raging across America, this year’s NFL season opener was as different as night and day in many ways from the 100th season kickoff in 2019.For one thing, as reigning Super Bowl champs the Kansas City Chiefs pummeled the Houston Texans 34-20, the ratings were down – a lot.


viewership results for the game in front of 17,000 socially distanced fans at KC’s more than 76,000 capacity Arrowhead Stadium is looking like a 10-year low for the NFL and NBC.
On a field bordered with the words “End Racism” and fans booing as players from both teams linked arms in a sign of solidarity with those fighting social injustice, the ratings and viewership decline could be an ominous sign for a league and the networks.


Maybe it will be ok when the numbers are adjusted. pulled a 5.2 rating vs 12.8 from last year


https://deadline.com/2020/09/nfl-ra...fs-coronavirus-houston-texans-nbc-1234575251/
 

ckDOG

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Dec 11, 2007
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Intentionally withheld info and continues to mask shame

According to the infectious disease experts, he saved millions of lives. I call that winning.

Pandemic 101. Be transparent in what you know. Arm the population with the best information. Get them to pull in the same direction. He did the opposite. Sowed seeds of doubt and confusion so he ultimately would be able to deflect ownership of a tough situation. "It is what it is". "I don't take any responsibility at all".

His gold star moment was shutting down Asian flights. Goes back to my problem with his leadership abilities - or lack thereof. He's good at signing pieces of paper and threatening lawsuits. He can get people to act with a threat or an order. He's incompetent at planning and getting people to unite and act. He doesn't know how - it requires too much effort, connection with people, and ultimately ownership of a situation. The feds have tried to act where they can, he just goes behind them and tells people to do differently. He's a brilliant deflector and politician interested in self preservation. Horrible leader to be a the top.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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According to the infectious disease experts, he saved millions of lives. I call that winning.

Ill have to try this childlike reasoning the next time I have a review at work.

"Glfr, your numbers are not good and your margin is only 8%."
"Well sir, even though my peers average a 36% margin, I see an 8% margin as winning."
"But if we put someone else in your chair, there is a good chance they would generate a higher margin than you."

hmm.
 

oxfordrebel22

Sophomore
Oct 31, 2013
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Trump's net worth has decreased by a billion dollars since he has been President. Can any other President say the same?

I fail to see how this is relevant, or how you know it? He refuses to release financial information? He’s also moved a lot of assets into his kids names, because of the conflict of interest in it being his name while he’s President. So, obviously if I give my business to my son, my net worth declines.

And if that’s not why his net worth has declined then maybe that had something to do with the economy...

I’m not trying to bash Trump, I voted for him. But, some of the arguments his most ardent supporters use to try and prop him up are very strange.
 

SheltonChoked

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Feb 27, 2008
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Prelim results in. 17k fans allowed and boos. viewership down 16%.








Maybe it will be ok when the numbers are adjusted. pulled a 5.2 rating vs 12.8 from last year


https://deadline.com/2020/09/nfl-ra...fs-coronavirus-houston-texans-nbc-1234575251/

Advertising spending up 2x from last year (~$900k per 30 second spot vs $450k last year)

Live sports still has the most guaranteed eyeballs on commercials.

FYI Tucker Carlson had 858,000 missed beating the NFL by only 4.5 million people.
 
Last edited:

SheltonChoked

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Pandemic 101. Be transparent in what you know. Arm the population with the best information. Get them to pull in the same direction. He did the opposite. Sowed seeds of doubt and confusion so he ultimately would be able to deflect ownership of a tough situation. "It is what it is". "I don't take any responsibility at all".

His gold star moment was shutting down Asian flights. Goes back to my problem with his leadership abilities - or lack thereof. He's good at signing pieces of paper and threatening lawsuits. He can get people to act with a threat or an order. He's incompetent at planning and getting people to unite and act. He doesn't know how - it requires too much effort, connection with people, and ultimately ownership of a situation. The feds have tried to act where they can, he just goes behind them and tells people to do differently. He's a brilliant deflector and politician interested in self preservation. Horrible leader to be a the top.

He even messed this up. He only blocked Chinese people coming directly from China. You could, and many did, get a layover in Japan, Singapore, EUROPE, the middle east or dozens of other countries and still fly into the US. and even then, Over 40,000 people still flew directly from China to the US after the January "travel ban".

And don't even start on the cluster17 that was the Europe travel ban and it's roll out.
 

oxfordrebel22

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Oct 31, 2013
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Ok -- so how am I supposed to actually tell the two apart? The easiest way is for the good folks marching on behalf of something we can almost all mostly agree upon to adjust their slogan a little bit to differentiate themselves from the insanity. I've already seen that start to happen. But the NBA REALLY let that horse out of the barn with some of their woke stuff. I thought the NFL played it almost perfectly last night. That's a method of protest that I can get behind. Give it the same air time -- let's show unity -- and the best way to accomplish that is taking it off the National Anthem and avoid pissing off a pretty high percentage of people that will absolutely refuse to hear what you have to say afterwards. This would have never even become a controversy had it been handled in such a manner and we'd all be better off for it.

It's like the difference between protesting and rioting. I feel it's the job of peaceful protesters to self-police, and to stop rioting within their ranks in it's extreme infancy. To the point it never makes news. I'm sure this is what happens at 90+% of the time. But you've got these pockets of people that just want to watch the world burn and authorities in those locations more than happy to allow them to do just that. At which point the equal and opposite crazies come out and you've got a Wisconsin situation all over again. Something we haven't seen the last of. Calling the guard AFTER that clash of ideologies kills people should put those actual governors on trial IMO. Anyone could see that coming from a mile away.

On your last point about those that just want to watch the world burn - I agree. But... to hold their actions against peaceful protestors or quite frankly anyone who has a difference of opinion, is the exact same thing as people holding the actions of a few radical racists, such as the KKK, against southern white conservative males, like you and me. People often want to throw that whole “looters and rioters” argument in the face of those who are protesting peacefully. It’s a straw man and it’s unfair to them. They can’t control those who want anarchy and chaos anymore than you or I can control some dumbass who wants to wear a white hood.
 

oxfordrebel22

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Oct 31, 2013
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Interesting. I was unaware that the USPTO is refusing Trademarks for "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER."

Regardless, when I hear the phrases "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER," I think of angry protesters/rioters. The thought of these phrases being support for a social movement never crosses my mind when I hear those phrases.

In my opinion, even the most well-intentioned person does race relations a disservice whenever he/she uses the phrases "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER."

Why is there a need to bring in any racial aspect into your complaint? Couldn't the complainant argue the same position without bringing race into it?

For example, one could argue that Officer Chauvin unnecessarily put his knee on the back of Floyd's neck and that is the direct cause of Floyd's death. Thus, one could argue, Chauvin should be charged with Manslaughter. ALL LIVES MATTER . . . or, simply . . . LIVES MATTER.

In my opinion, there's no need to bring race into the complaint. You can effectively complain without injecting race into your complaint.

Injecting race into the complaint INHERENTLY creates DIVISION . . . along racial lines and ideological lines, as clearly demonstrated over the past few months.

Thus, "BLM" and "BLACK LIVES MATTER" should be put out to pasture.

But the whole issue is that many (most) black people feel like their lives aren’t as valued as ours. Whether they should feel that way or not, I do not know. But they do. And all lives cannot matter, until black lives matter. That’s their whole point.
 

oxfordrebel22

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Oct 31, 2013
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I don't think he's in the minority. You've got a bunch of young hipster anarchists burning cities and spraying BLM all over the rubble. Honest news outlets are showing this and the public is turning against it - to the point that polling on the term "Black Lives Matter" has gone underwater on approval in Wisconsin. It's not a bad thing to suggest that black lives matter, and I actually like the way Obama said it during his DNC speech: "black lives matter, no more, but no less." But the violence, intimidation, and militant anarchy that's being done in the name of BLM has destroyed any ability for mainstream folks to embrace the movement - black and white. Those folks are then called racist, which makes it worse. And we've heard BLM organizers call themselves a "marxist organization" out of their own mouths.

Sadly, I don’t think he’s in the minority either. I think you and I are. And I think it’s an issue that needs to be considered when having these conversations with people like Engie and others who actually want to engage in the conversation and it be productive. We can’t fix it, but I think it’s important I remember it, going forward.
 

jethreauxdawg

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Dec 20, 2010
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Or your boss could’ve said

Ill have to try this childlike reasoning the next time I have a review at work.

"Glfr, your numbers are not good and your margin is only 8%."
"Well sir, even though my peers average a 36% margin, I see an 8% margin as winning."
"But if we put someone else in your chair, there is a good chance they would generate a higher margin than you."

hmm.

Damn, we expected this disaster to cause 2,000,000 units to be destroyed, but you were able to save more than 90% of them.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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Who here doesn't feel this way? What you are moving on to now is a BIGTIME moving of the goalposts. And all I've seen is support for that literal BLACK LIVES MATTER organization -- so much as putting their trademarked slogan on fields and jerseys. What choice do I have but to associate the people promoting that -- with their ideals? And their published ideals are arguably worse than anything Hitler ever put on a letterhead. So -- excuse me if I have a problem with supporting that movement. Which is something ENTIRELY different than the basic promotion of black human rights -- with which I don't know a single person in opposition of.

Here's the problem. Prettymuch EVERYONE agrees the George Floyd situation was terrible and someone should be in jail over it. But a majority of people believe the Wisconsin shooting was a fair shoot. Some things you can't do when in an altercation with cops and he did one of those things and paid the price. Could you poke holes in little details? Sure. How many times you pulling the trigger in one second when you believe your life is on the line? So, this movement is becoming literally "no cop can ever shoot a black person no matter what" and is stupid. It runs totally against actual equality. Because I would not give a single 17 if a black officer shot a white guy doing exactly what was done in that scenario.

And here's the other inconvenient detail. Donald Trump has done more for actual black lives than any president in 50 years. But a dishonest media has prevented a majority of them from realizing it. Criminal justice reform, minority jobs, etc.
White people more or less shrug at actual murders of white people by cops also. Just like with black people, it rarely happens. It'd be better if there was more accountability and better methods for identifying cops like that before they kill somebody, and I wish there would be more done, but there's never been a situation like that in a municipality or county that I've lived and voted in to my knowledge. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but it's not clear to most people what they're supposed to do about it. It doesn't make an impact for most people to remember their names.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OflGwyWcft8
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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On your last point about those that just want to watch the world burn - I agree. But... to hold their actions against peaceful protestors or quite frankly anyone who has a difference of opinion, is the exact same thing as people holding the actions of a few radical racists, such as the KKK, against southern white conservative males, like you and me. People often want to throw that whole “looters and rioters” argument in the face of those who are protesting peacefully. It’s a straw man and it’s unfair to them. They can’t control those who want anarchy and chaos anymore than you or I can control some dumbass who wants to wear a white hood.

They can't control them, but they can not act as shields for them and criticize cops for trying to stop them while they simultaneously make it harder for them. It's like the protesters in Charlottesville that were just protesting to stop tearing down monuments. That's a perfectly fine and defensible position, but once white supremacists showed up and started marching, if they had kept at it for the next few weeks while white supremacists were committing arson and violence within their midst, they can rightfully be criticized for giving them cover. It's unfortuante that it gives something like a heckler's veto to the worst people trying to hijack causes, but that's just reality. Once people start burning ****, attacking cops, looting and rioting, if you are hanging around with them, it's fair to criticize you. At worst you are supporting them, at best you are just indifferent to how difficult you are making things for property owners and police.
 

dog12

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Sep 15, 2016
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But the whole issue is that many (most) black people feel like their lives aren’t as valued as ours. Whether they should feel that way or not, I do not know. But they do. And all lives cannot matter, until black lives matter. That’s their whole point.



Right.

Why would any person (regardless of race) feel that that his/her life isn't sufficiently valued? Maybe the issue is one of support/resources that are available to that person? Things like a loving mother, a loving father, good schools, good neighborhoods, good job opportunities, etc.

Good parents . . . hell, even average parents . . . make all the difference in the world to a child.

If we could somehow convince every father to be present - and, fully involved - in his child's life, then many of our societal problems would eventually be solved.
 

dog12

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Sep 15, 2016
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You're upset nfl players are protesting against police brutality and want them to instead protest gun violence?


Peace. I just want a discussion. No disrespect intended with the following.

Two things about last night's NFL game:

1) I didn't see much "protest" from the Houston and Kansas City players last night. The only part of their "protest" that bothered me was Okafor (#57 for the Chiefs) kneeling during the National Anthem. I find it interesting that he was all alone and nobody else chose to kneel. (Yes, I recognize that the Texans were not on the field during the National Anthem.) Did I miss anything else in last night's pre-game/game that would amount to a protest by the players?

2) I didn't really hear much about "police brutality." I maybe heard the term used a few times at a very high level. There was no mention of black people being scared of cops (Lebron James). I also remember hearing the term "social justice" used. This term doesn't bother me (at least, not yet). "Social justice" is such a high-level term that it doesn't have any real meaning to me. Did I miss any detailed discussion of police brutality during last night's pre-game/game?
 
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