Let's answer this...

[HD6]

if we had followed up our Final Four in 1996 with two more NCAA tournament appearances, does Richard Williams get fired? I say no, he could have kept doing whatever it was he was doing off the court until the end of time if he had kept winning. The fact that he had two losing seasons was why he was pushed out, the off the court issues were just the cover story.

We fired a coach two years removed from a Final Four in a sport we have far lower expectations for. I don't think Cohen is going anywhere, but his seat is red hot.

 

[msstate7]

Good question and I agree with everything you said

 

[Bulldogg31]

The losing seasons didn't help but I think the nature of the off the court indiscretions forced the issues. Something about dipping pens in company ink...

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

It's unfortunate but I'm afraid you're right and Cohen will be back regardless.

The problem I have right now is I have no confidence in him to bounce back. If you can't build off of a national runner up season then how can you be expected to build your way back from this cluster?

 

[Ace-Leroy]

I don't think Cohen is going to be fired....

if we had followed up our Final Four in 1996 with two more NCAA tournament appearances, does Richard Williams get fired? I say no, he could have kept doing whatever it was he was doing off the court until the end of time if he had kept winning. The fact that he had two losing seasons was why he was pushed out, the off the court issues were just the cover story.

We fired a coach two years removed from a Final Four in a sport we have far lower expectations for. I don't think Cohen is going anywhere, but his seat is red hot.

but I think He should be fired. It is year 7 for him and WE run the bases bad, Make terrible mental errors fielding, hell I am searching my mind for what we do well. What does this team do well that you can credit Cohen for? I can't think of anything.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I was all for giving him another year most of the season and I still have an inkling of that in my mind. However, the seat should be the Flame of Thrones. I understand we're not the same State of the late 80's early 90's, in terms of baseball, but the utter ineptitude the past month is nothing short of abysmal. You'd think at least a few players, themselves, would just get pissed about losing and play with the intensity the ibastard used to have.

That said, I wonder what Fishwater99 thinks about our wins against the Top "whatever his barometer of the day is" for our baseball team.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

I think Cohen's seat is red hot as well. Stricklin is operating in a generation where he can't afford to sit back and continue to lose momentum. This years basketball and baseball performances has taken some of the shine off football. Consider we lost 3 of our last 4 in football then the abysmal other 2 and we have lost what momentum football gave us. Howland is a great hire. We need to do well in football next season because a underperforming year in football and another rough year with Cohen is gonna have us in a tough place.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I'm interested to know precisely how these 3 relate. UK has no problem with basketball, but they're bottom of the barrel in football. I'll admit, I don't know how good their Lady Cat Soccer team is.*

I understand that it's an overall image of a school's athletics, but I'd like for you, or someone, to elaborate. I know, Howland mentioned our football team, and what we've accomplished several times. But, does one sport affect a recruit of a different sport that much? I don't follow recruiting that much, so just wondering.

 

[MSUDawg25]

The big difference between baseball and basketball or more specifically between the Cohen and Ray situations is that Stricklin had a ready-made recipe for success in the wings when he pulled the trigger on Ray. I don't think anyone believes Cohen is going to get canned this year and if Stricklin has sense here is why.

With basketball, even if the fanbase was somewhat divided about firing Ray, most would change their tune soon after. He made a homerun hire in just a few days and we had an NBA talent just waiting for a reason to sign. We could probably expect to see a noticeable improvement in win total the very next season.

With baseball, we don't have a ready-made solution (to my knowledge) that would increase our win total significantly next year. Baseball is a much longer term project than basketball and the next guy needs a couple years at least before you start to really see results. So Stricklin needs the fanbase to be pretty united when/if he had to fire Cohen. Otherwise it could be a similar (although Cohen's numbers aren't nearly as good) situation to the Stansbury firing where half the fanbase is constantly griping that we made the wrong move and the guy we hired isn't going to cut it, etc, etc.

 

[TBone.sixpack]

Ask Howland. He gushed over and over about how our football success will assist him in recruiting. Is he wrong? He knows way more than I would.

i see you referenced Howland. I guess national exposure and student experience? I don't have an eloquent answer. I just continue to hear how hey play off of one another from the AD and coaches.

 

[missouridawg]

Ask Howland. He gushed over and over about how our football success will assist him in recruiting. Is he wrong? He knows way more than I would.

i see you referenced Howland. I guess national exposure and student experience? I don't have an eloquent answer. I just continue to hear how hey play off of one another from the AD and coaches.

Its about the on campus experience. When a recruit comes in and he watches a football game in front of a jam packed stadium, that leaves an impression. Especially considering that most of our rivals claim that MSU is a little ol cow college with nothing there.

 

[HD6]

I would say to that Rick Pitino is still coaching at Louisville, despite what he did actually coming to light.

 

[KurtRambis4]

He built

from the cluster of '09 and '10 into a national runner-up, so why is it a foregone conclusion that he cannot do it again?

 

[The Peeper]

The more important question to me is how do you you go from this National Runner Up to this "cluster" of 2015 which is worst than his first season??

 

[msstate7]

from the cluster of '09 and '10 into a national runner-up, so why is it a foregone conclusion that he cannot do it again?

It's not. It's also not a foregone conclusion that he won't repeat this year again.

It took Cohen 3 years to get a 9-win sec team (polk's last year) back in postseason. He won't have that luxury this time though. I think it's postseason for bust for Cohen next season

 

[patdog]

We 17ed over Ron Polk and burned our bridges with him for a season better than this one. And that was only 1 year after a CWS appearance. We were right to do it then. It's time for Stricklin to do the right thing now.

 

[patdog]

Exactly. If you're Kentucky basketball, of course it doesn't matter how any of your other teams do. But for ordinary programs, it helps for there to be a winning atmosphere for the games in sports out of your sport's season.

 

[Bulldogg31]

I would say to that Rick Pitino is still coaching at Louisville, despite what he did actually coming to light.

Good point but Ricky P's affair was with the wife of an equipment manager, and Ricky W's was not. There are many forbidden fruits, and for MSU in the 1990's his may have been the forbiddenest.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

Ummm 3 and 4 years after the fact. Are you gonna have that kind of patience?

from the cluster of '09 and '10 into a national runner-up, so why is it a foregone conclusion that he cannot do it again?

And I'm simply not in the mood to start anything related to having a hot team at the perfect time. Those players played with something down the stretch that year that is unlike anything we've been fortunate enough to witness before. And Cohen deserves credit for putting them in position and most of all, for landing the right players. There's no Renfroe, Frazier, Holder, Lindgren, or anything of the sort on our roster right now. Not even close. That seems to be the biggest problem and why I have no faith in the future under his leadership. We don't have 3 or 4 years to wait around to see if history repeats or not. And honestly he doesn't deserve it.

 

[57stratdawg]

I think the bigger question is: what are the expectations for 2016.

I'm sorry, but "making a regional" is low hanging fruit, IMO. We need to at least flirt with a host spot.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

The whole conversation is apples and oranges. Pitino had established himself as a HOF coach when his shenanigans were exposed. Richard was still pretty much a middle of the road coach who caught lightning in a bottle in 96. Twenty years later, few people outside of State fans are aware of what allegedly hastened Richard's departure. Pitino's escapades were feature on SportsCenter. Pitino, a New Yorker, was revered by the Louisville fanbase and envied by Kentucky's. Richard didn't even have the united support of his alma mater's fan base. Pitino's career arc was Providence, the Knicks, Kentucky, the Celtics, Louisville. Richard's was South Natchez, Co-Lin, State.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Holy

cow. He built that team that did it, yet you said he cannot do it. Why? He has done it before. If it takes us 3-4 years to get back to the CWS w multiple regional and super regionals in between, then hell yeah I'll wait.

Also, this whole "got hot blah" for the '13 team is absolutely ludicrous. I see it over and over and over, and it is just as ridiculous the first time as it is the last time. When a team wins 51 games, they don't just get "hot." Now, if we 31-29 going into the SEC tourey and just got in, I may lend some credence to the "getting hot" ****. However, we wer 40-16 with a very high RPI going into the SEC tourney. For the last time, the 2013 team did not just "get hot."

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Stricklin had a long time to get a Rick Ray replacement in place because there was a high chance that he would fail. I don't think anyone thought a month ago that this season would end the way it did.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

So what you're saying is we can go 23-33 next year just like in 2010 and you'll

cow. He built that team that did it, yet you said he cannot do it. Why? He has done it before. If it takes us 3-4 years to get back to the CWS w multiple regional and super regionals in between, then hell yeah I'll wait.

Also, this whole "got hot blah" for the '13 team is absolutely ludicrous. I see it over and over and over, and it is just as ridiculous the first time as it is the last time. When a team wins 51 games, they don't just get "hot." Now, if we 31-29 going into the SEC tourey and just got in, I may lend some credence to the "getting hot" ****. However, we wer 40-16 with a very high RPI going into the SEC tourney. For the last time, the 2013 team did not just "get hot."

Have no problem with that because history has proven that in 2019, we'll be in the championship series. That is what is taken from your logic. Amazing, truly amazing.

Also, that team was 16-14 in the conference with a non conference schedule that featured Purdue as their toughest test. So getting hot the right time has a hell of a lot of merit.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Your

comprehension is lacking, chief. I'll see if I can break it down for you.

You stated you want Cohen gone because there's no way he can turn us around from this chuck foxtrot. I replied that it was essentially nonsense to think that there's no way, because he's proven (not just here) that he can. How can one say, with certainty, that it couldn't happen again?

Then you went off into some ridiculousness that a 51-win team wasn't that good, they just got lucky over 2-3 weekends. I'm no going to really entertain that, further.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

No, by all means feel free to entertain it. They were 16-14 in the league and played a miserable non conference schedule. Unless of course, St Josephs and Purdue are suddenly powerhouses of the baseball diamond. I give them all the credit in the world for where we got. Best finish in school history. AND they got hot at the right time. I don't see that as a negative at all. In fact I'm happy as hell that they did. It's part of the game. Playing your absolute best down the stretch.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Yeah

we were so terrible that there were only two teams in the league w better W% vs the top 50****

 

[Dawg1976]

Agree. If Williams had been rocking and rolling on the court those 2 years after 1996, his off court mess would have been swept under the rug. Cohen will get another year, but if its anything like this year he will be gone.

 

[KurtRambis4]

There are

Make terrible mental errors fielding

PLENTY of things to ***** about w our club this year, and our offense (specifically), but our defense over the last 4-5 years is just not one of them. We are consistently one of the top clubs in the league, there.

 

[DerHntr]

if we had followed up our Final Four in 1996 with two more NCAA tournament appearances, does Richard Williams get fired? I say no, he could have kept doing whatever it was he was doing off the court until the end of time if he had kept winning. The fact that he had two losing seasons was why he was pushed out, the off the court issues were just the cover story.

We fired a coach two years removed from a Final Four in a sport we have far lower expectations for. I don't think Cohen is going anywhere, but his seat is red hot.

So you're saying we need to uncover an affair**

 

[HD6]

Isn't that actually the point? Pitino kept his job because he wins, Williams lost his job because he was losing.

 

[HD6]

Because the scoring at Dudy Noble is incredibly bad. It is a running joke in the press box.

 

[Bulldogg31]

Isn't that actually the point? Pitino kept his job because he wins, Williams lost his job because he was losing.

Gotta agree there...it would have been hard for a booster to run him out if we'd been to a Final Four and two straight Sweet 16's. Also would have had to give a better excuse than "I'm retiring".

 

[Bulldogg31]

PLENTY of things to ***** about w our club this year, and our offense (specifically), but our defense over the last 4-5 years is just not one of them. We are consistently one of the top clubs in the league, there.

KR's right on this one. Our defense is pretty solid, especially up the middle. We've been near the best in the country at turning double plays the past few years. Our catchers are solid, no matter what folks say, our pitchers defend the position well, all good enough to win.

We just don't score enough runs. Bats are afraid.

 

[TNT.sixpack]

Gotta put a runner on base before you can turn a double play. We Might be best at turning double plays because we put more runners on first. Just saying.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I have to agree I like Cohen and Butch but the momentum of being in the NC game is gone. You combine that with the out of control way we lost so many games down the stretch and it signals a team with zero confidence.

 

[paindonthurt_]

If we repeat with a similar season next year and Cohen is fired, I won't have a problem with it, but I'm gonna leave that decision up to the people who know more than this board does.

Cohen deserves a lot of the blame this year bc he is the head coach, but as others have stated, we have a bunch of Players on this team who don't have any leadership or balls. Going down looking in key situations, walking 9 hole hitters, dumb dumb base running that isn't on the coaches (I don't mean base running isn't on the coaches but some of our mistakes were squarely on players), etc. The team might have a little talent but not many seniors who could step up and make something happen when we needed it.

 

[Go Budaw]

I think the bigger question is: what are the expectations for 2016.

I'm sorry, but "making a regional" is low hanging fruit, IMO. We need to at least flirt with a host spot.

Just my opinion, but I'm not gonna say we have to make or host a regional next year or define it by that criteria. If Cohen clearly shows and understanding of the problems within the program and within himself, and takes steps to address those issues over the next year (coaching changes, processing of certain players, stop forcing the small ball approach so much), then I would be content to give him 2017 IF those changes lead to marked improvement. For instance, if we clean house and then go 13-17 in SEC play and 32-24 overall next year but narrowly miss making a regional, I'm not wanting to fire him. That is still a giant leap forward from this season.

As far as hosting next year, if that is your criteria for him staying after 2016 then you may as well get on board with firing him now because there is absolutely no chance in hell of that happening.

 

[Goat #39]

We 17ed over Ron Polk and burned our bridges with him for a season better than this one. And that was only 1 year after a CWS appearance. We were right to do it then. It's time for Stricklin to do the right thing now.

No, we did not. You obviously have a bias or cannot do math, one or the other.

 

[msstate7]

No, we did not. You obviously have a bias or cannot do math, one or the other.

9 sec wins > 8 sec wins, I think