LeBron to Sixers

[Dward13]

I disagree.

I do think that is one of the most impressive Finals performances I’ve ever seen. Credit to LeBron, Kyrie and the rest of the Cavs for that.

This isn’t going to be a popular take i’m sure but Lebron in general has faced tougher competition than Jordan.

Jordan’s run started after Bird, Magic and Isiaah Thomas were all injured, on decline or even retired.

Lebron won and lost against dynasty Warrior and Spurs teams. Beat an OKC team with 3 future mvp’s. And a Celtics team with 4 hall of fame locks multiple times.

This isn’t me saying Jordan isn’t the goat. But the ring argument and finals losses etc are not as strong an argument against Lebrons career in general than many think.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

This isn’t going to be a popular take i’m sure but Lebron in general has faced tougher competition than Jordan.

Jordan’s run started after Bird, Magic and Isiaah Thomas were all injured, on decline or even retired.

Lebron won and lost against dynasty Warrior and Spurs teams. Beat an OKC team with 3 future mvp’s. And a Celtics team with 4 hall of fame locks multiple times.

This isn’t me saying Jordan isn’t the goat. But the ring argument and finals losses etc are not as strong an argument against Lebrons career in general than many think.

I’ve actually looked into that before as well. LeBron faced very comparable playoff competition to Jordan (by record). LeBron barely edged him out there. And that’s not a good thing for LBJs case, since it recalls the idea of 4 titles in 23 seasons versus Jordan winning 6 in a very short career comparatively. Also, most of LBJs Finals appearances were achieved through the weaker of the two conferences, whereas each of Jordan’s were earned in the tougher of the two conferences. Again, I can do this all day. Smacking around the LBJ arguments is so easy a caveman can do it. There is no GOAT debate, only a preference debate.

 

[Dward13]

I’ve actually looked into that before as well. LeBron faced very comparable playoff competition to Jordan (by record). LeBron barely edged him out there. And that’s not a good thing for LBJs case, since it recalls the idea of 4 titles in 23 seasons versus Jordan winning 6 in a very short career comparatively. Also, most of LBJs Finals appearances were achieved through the weaker of the two conferences, whereas each of Jordan’s were earned in the tougher of the two conferences. Again, I can do this all day. Smacking around the LBJ arguments is so easy a caveman can do it. There is no GOAT debate, only a preference debate.

By record doesn’t seem like such a great indicator.

And how are you judging that the eastern conference was better during Jordan’s run?

I won’t disagree that the west was better during Lebrons run. But Jordan never beat anyone as good as those Celtics teams Lebron had to go through. Or the spurs and warriors teams he beat in the finals. Nothing like OKC either with Westbrook, Durant and James Harden.

I was alive. I watched. The best team Jordan beat in the eastern conference as a declining Pistons team and the Knicks whose 2nd best player was 1 time all star John Starks. The east wasnt exactly a gauntlet back then either.

The magic had Shaq and Penny. And they made the finals when Jordan retired the first time. But got ran over by the Hakeem rockets.

The Malone/Stockton Jazz were good. But they weren’t on the same level as the steph warriors or duncan spurs or even KG/Allen/Pierce/Rondo celtics.

I love stats and numbers. But this is kind of one of those things…if stats are telling you the 90’s knicks, blazers, suns, sonics were better than any of those teams I just listed…you can go ahead and write them off.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

By record doesn’t seem like such a great indicator.

And how are you judging that the eastern conference was better during Jordan’s run?

I won’t disagree that the west was better during Lebrons run. But Jordan never beat anyone as good as those Celtics teams Lebron had to go through. Or the spurs and warriors teams he beat in the finals. Nothing like OKC either with Westbrook, Durant and James Harden.

I was alive. I watched. The best team Jordan beat in the eastern conference as a declining Pistons team and the Knicks whose 2nd best player was 1 time all star John Starks. The east wasnt exactly a gauntlet back then either.

The magic had Shaq and Penny. And they made the finals when Jordan retired the first time. But got ran over by the Hakeem rockets.

The Malone/Stockton Jazz were good. But they weren’t on the same level as the steph warriors or duncan spurs or even KG/Allen/Pierce/Rondo celtics.

I love stats and numbers. But this is kind of one of those things…if stats are telling you the 90’s knicks, blazers, suns, sonics were better than any of those teams I just listed…you can go ahead and write them off.

I don’t know what criteria you’re using to compare teams.

 

[electricat2]

Hate LeBron
But would love to see maxey get a ring

 

[billCgmx_]

Let's ask AI how tough the Eastern Conference was during Jordan's career and compared LeBron's career

How strong was the NBA's Eastern Conference from the years 2004-2018 compared to the NBA's Eastern Conference from 1985-1998?

The Eastern Conference from 1985–1998 was significantly stronger overall than the Eastern Conference from 2004–2018. The difference wasn't just at the top—it extended to the conference's depth, the number of elite players, and the difficulty of advancing through the playoffs.


Here's a comparison.

Category	1985–1998 East	2004–2018 East
Elite teams	★★★★★	★★★★☆
Conference depth	★★★★★	★★★☆☆
Hall of Fame talent	★★★★★	★★★★☆
Difficulty of reaching Finals	Extremely difficult	Difficult, but generally easier
Compared to the West	Roughly equal or stronger	Usually weaker

1985–1998: One of the strongest conferences ever​

During this era, the East featured multiple dynasties and perennial contenders simultaneously.


Some of the league's premier teams included:

• Boston Celtics
• Detroit Pistons
• Chicago Bulls
• New York Knicks
• Indiana Pacers
• Orlando Magic
• Miami Heat

The conference was filled with Hall of Fame players, including:

• Michael Jordan
• Larry Bird
• Isiah Thomas
• Patrick Ewing
• Scottie Pippen
• Shaquille O'Neal
• Alonzo Mourning
• Reggie Miller
• Grant Hill

A 50-win team was not guaranteed a deep playoff run because so many opponents were legitimate contenders.

2004–2018: Strong at the top, less deep​

This era still produced championship-caliber teams:

• 2004 Pistons
• 2006 Heat
• 2008 Celtics
• 2012 and 2013 Heat
• 2016 Cavaliers

It also featured stars such as:

• LeBron James
• Dwyane Wade
• Paul Pierce
• Kevin Garnett
• Ray Allen
• Derrick Rose
• Paul George

However, the conference had less depth overall.


Several seasons featured only three or four teams viewed as realistic championship threats, while a number of playoff teams finished near .500. By contrast, the Western Conference often had eight or more teams with 50-win quality.

Overall comparison​

If you assigned an overall strength rating:

• 1985–1998 East: 9.5–10/10
• 2004–2010 East: 5.5–6.5/10 (the weakest stretch)
• 2011–2018 East: 7–8/10 (an improvement, but still behind the West)

Averaging the entire 2004–2018 period, the Eastern Conference would rate around 7/10, while the 1985–1998 Eastern Conference would be around 9.5/10.

Bottom line​

The 1985–1998 Eastern Conference was considerably stronger than the 2004–2018 Eastern Conference. The earlier era featured more championship-caliber teams at the same time, greater depth across the standings, and a much denser concentration of Hall of Fame talent. The later era still produced outstanding champions and all-time great players, but it was less consistently competitive from top to bottom and generally trailed the Western Conference in overall depth for much of its run.

 

[L.O.D.]

This isn’t going to be a popular take i’m sure but Lebron in general has faced tougher competition than Jordan.

Jordan’s run started after Bird, Magic and Isiaah Thomas were all injured, on decline or even retired.

Lebron won and lost against dynasty Warrior and Spurs teams. Beat an OKC team with 3 future mvp’s. And a Celtics team with 4 hall of fame locks multiple times.

This isn’t me saying Jordan isn’t the goat. But the ring argument and finals losses etc are not as strong an argument against Lebrons career in general than many think.

I dont buy this. Lebrona titles came when he went to stacked teams. You think Jordan loses in finals to Dallas when hes got a stacked roster behind him or San Antonio with a all but done Duncan and a young Khawai . No chance . Lebron was in alot of Finals but lost over half. Only players Jordan got to help vis trades or free agency was Grant, Rodman, and Harper when he was aged rest were drafted. Had Jordan joined super teams hed be up there with Russell. Jmo

 

[Artlaibesghost]

Knicks for the repeat....

Not a chance

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

It doesn’t matter how many he wins, he’ll never be on MJ’s level. MJ’s rings are legit, too. He didn’t have to form super teams to win championships. Today’s players are pathetic. I don’t have a problem chasing rings at the end of their careers. But, LBJ was doing it in his prime & has done it for most of his career. And, yet, he still only has 3 after nearly a quarter century.

And, I’ll never understand how he became a part of the GOAT discussion, aside from him willing it into existence. He’s barely in my top 10. He has a case for greatest physical specimen ever. But, best player?! Lmao. Like I said, GOATS don’t admit defeat & chase rings in their prime. And, they don’t go 3-6 in the NBAF.

Personally, I could never rank him ahead of true alphas like MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Kobe or Olajuwon. The 80s era would’ve chewed him up & spit him out. Charmin soft & that flopping bs would never fly then. Philly will definitely be one of the heavy favorites next season. But, it’ll just be another cheap, meaningless ring that he sold his self respect for, if they get him #4. But, who am I kidding? He dgaf HOW he gets a ring.

Exactly. This is the fourth time Lebron went to a ready made team to try and win a ship. His performance alone against Dallas when he was in his prime was enough to disqualify him for the GOAT conversation to me. They totally shut him down and he quit on his team. He’s obviously an all time great, easily top 10, but the way he won his ships were cheap outside his Cleveland ship to me. His stat padding over 25 years factors little to my decisions about him. I personally think he’s on TRT at least and maybe steroids that the league has helped hide to be as in shape and play as well this long. It’s like Father Time didn’t do a thing to him.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Every ring won is legit and no ring won is cheap and meaningless. You have your opinion but good lord your post is very cope heavy lol. You're just a fan online. Why do you believe you've got ultimate authority to determine that ring won is legit but this ring won is meaningless? And why doesn't LeBron have self-respect for choosing what he feels is the best option to win?

Sorry but hopping to the best team in the league with three all stars isn’t a legit way to win a ship. That’s why KD isn’t respected for his ships in GS.

 

[Nightwish]

Sorry but hopping to the best team in the league with three all stars isn’t a legit way to win a ship. That’s why KD isn’t respected for his ships in GS.

1. LeBron going to a team makes them better. He's not jumping to "the best team" already.
2. No disrespect but you guys gotta look up the definition of 'legit' or 'legitimate' because LeBron choosing a team and then that team eventually winning a title does not make that championship illegitimate. Stop saying his rings aren't legitimate when they clearly are lol. You don't decide that, if fact no one does. Those games were played and his teams won.
3. Millions respect LeBron already. He doesn't need the support of a few UK fans on a fan forum.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

1. LeBron going to a team makes them better. He's not jumping to "the best team" already.
2. No disrespect but you guys gotta look up the definition of 'legit' or 'legitimate' because LeBron choosing a team and then that team eventually winning a title does not make that championship illegitimate. Stop saying his rings aren't legitimate when they clearly are lol. You don't decide that, if fact no one does. Those games were played and his teams won.
3. Millions respect LeBron already. He doesn't need the support of a few UK fans on a fan forum.

Sure he is, it’s a ready made team without him. Just like Miami before him, then Cleveland again, then the lakers, and now the Sixers were already contenders before he came. That’s why he signed. They had the best roster to his eyes.

 

[kywildcat1021979]

Man I used to sit around and argue the Lebron was right down better than MJ about 15 years ago. Sitting back now and looking at everything overall and comparing careers it's not even close Jordan is the G.O.A.T.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Perhaps, the view is the championship is “illegitimate” for purposes of the GOAT discussion. In that context, the word is used correctly. I looked it up.

 

[Beatle Bum]

If we are starting a team and we can pick James in his prime or Jordan in his prime, I pick Jordan. He is too legit! Too legit to quit!

 

[Laparkafan]

Imagine a world where LeBron never left Cleveland. No Kyrie + trade Wiggins for Love.

Kobe and MJ never left in their prime.

 

[CatBearPig]

Umm …the obvious reason for that is Lebron has played 22 seasons and has had freakishly good luck staying healthy throughout his career (I swear, the dude’s body must be made of titanium). Whereas Jordan really only played 10 full seasons during his Bulls run (thanks to missing nearly all of the 86 injury season and the two baseball/retirement seasons at his peak in 94 and 95).

Comparing career totals has always been a terrible way of analyzing this question, as it leads to wildly misleading results. Obviously any player who plays WAY more games than another is gonna end up with the higher totals, but that sure as hell doesn’t mean he was the better player. There’s a lot of mediocre players who rank misleadingly high in total counts simply because they hung around for a long time, and there’s a lot of great players who rank misleadingly low. And total counts also tend to be biased in favor of the modern era because, thanks to medical science and other factors, today’s stars simply have longer careers on average than they did in the past.

I watched both Jordan and LeBron’s careers from beginning to end. And the best player I’ve ever seen was absolutely Michael Jordan. He may not have lasted nearly as long as Lebron, but nobody was ever better in his prime than MJ.

Comparing career totals is a terrible way to compare careers? That might be the biggest moving of the goal posts of all time. Longevity is a huge part of the LeBron story. The fact you want to discount that shows a strong bias. I still think Jordan is the best. That’s just my opinion. However, you can’t just say the fact LeBron crushes him in every statistical measure is irrelevant. Jordan’s story is one of basically 6 years of complete dominance. In my mind that’s the most any player has ever seperated from the pack in pro basketball. However, there is a solid argument that Lebrons 15 years of dominance and 22 years of great is a more difficult feat. Jordan was a shell at 36.