Edited my comment and I obviously won’t be crying because I avoid national debates and just read up on it for the first time a few minutes ago.
LeBron Showing His @ss Again
- Thread starter TMcGrady1
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No, bc I’m not watching. I get no form of entertainment from these things.
Fwiw, response is supposed to be commensurate with the threat. Shooting with an assault rifle because someone is attacking you with a skateboard is questionable. He could have run away, there was no weapon pulled in him until he had shot and killed two people.
There are many aspects of the law that punish people for taking risks. For instance, if you drive drunk and get pulled over, you get a DUI, whether you caused an accident or not. This kid took a huge risk by putting himself in this situation, it was totally unnecessary, and if he had accidentally shot a passerby he would be in prison. So, the situation may have escalated to the point where he felt the need to protect himself , but he is 100% responsible for putting himself in that situation and doesn’t deserve to have nu consequences for his actions, IMHO.
At the end of the day, it’s yet another partisan political issue now. So, he’s a hero to the anti-BLM crowd and will be considered a martyr if he goes to prison.
Meh, could be authentic, could be inauthentic. No way to know for sure. Either way he was very well coached by his attorneys.
I think its not too hard to argue that he went out there looking for a confrontation and is, ultimately, proud of what happened. This is evidenced by things that the prosecution is not allowed to present at trial (like going to bars and posing for pictures with right wing terrorists). It is possible that this can be true and it can also be true that he suffered PTSD from the incident that might cause him to have a panic attack when discussing it.
There’s a lot wrong with this whole situation, not the least of which is the state charging him with murder when it seems so clearly evident that they cannot convict on that and could never convict on that. I suppose anything can happen with a jury.
The judge has been very defendant friendly which of course has caused people to claim he’s biased. Personally I’d hope every judge would be so defendant friendly and force the prosecution to convict solely on the fact based evidence rather than being able to use circumstantial things like quotes and previous actions or trying to convict someone on their thoughts rather than their actions. I think even if they were allowed to present those things, the prosecution would still be in pretty bad shape but they’d at least have the chance to murky the waters and build a more emotional argument against him.
If Rittenhouse was on trial for being a in idiot, or being an *******, or for being a piece of ****, or being a supporter of right wing terrorist groups, or even if he was on trial for wanting/hoping he got a chance to shoot someone….you might have a really good chance of a guilty verdict.
But alas, those things aren’t crimes, and he isn’t guilty of murder. They should have focused solely on the reckless endangerment and weapons charges and they’d have had a better shot at conviction.
yeah unfortunately I think LeBron has a little racist streak in him.
There’s a huge pro-Constitution crowd watching closely here that has nothing to do with BLM.
sorry man but you are way off on your facts. when the whole thing started the guy pulled a gun on and pointed at Rittenhouse threatening to shoot him. Why was the guy threatening to shoot him? because he was putting out a fire in the building the guy had set. I will say again they surrounded him 2 of which with guns in hand because he took a fire extinguisher and put a fire out at a business. thank god he was armed or he would be dead and we would never know about it because he would have been a conservative guy killed by liberal extremists protestors.
Are you ******* kidding me by saying he should have run away??you need to push away from the CNN and MSNBC table and get your facts straight.
Rittenhouse was running for his life when the 2nd and 3rd guy knocked him to the ground, while on the ground one hit him in the head with a skate board and the other was pulling his gun away with one hand while pointing a pistol at his head with the other. the crowd was yelling shoot him in the head. only then did Rittenhouse shoot. This is not even in question, have you not watched the video on a show besides the ones above. I cant believe how dishonest most of the media has been when in a case like this when there was overwhelming video evidence showing the guy was defending himself. They wont even show the video, just make up a false narrative and make him out to be the bad guy all because he was not protesting and burning down the city. Wow... Wow. The president of the united states called him a white supremist. What a lying dishonest sack of **** he is. That is the worst thing you can say of a man if he ifs the opposite. Is that what side you are on sir??
Crocodile tears. He went there knowing full well things could pop off and was ready to act. You look for trouble, you find it.
But there’s still a case and he still was acting in self defense and should not and will not be charged with murder.
If by pro-constitution you mean 2nd amendment, I think they are fighting the wrong fight by aligning behind that kid. Again, I have a CPL and am not in favor of taking guns away.
The double standard bothers me. The argument is usually that behavior is the issue, not guns (people kill people, not guns). Yet, this kid used a weapon that wasn’t his , traveled to another state, killed two people, and gun owners come to defend his behavior. What if he had used pipe bombs or Molotov cocktails to kill the two guys. Would gun owners come to his defense if he had meticulously prepared Molotov cocktails, transported them across state lines, paraded around town and showing them to people until somebody confronted him and then he lit one on fire and burn the guy to death?
The fact that some gun owners do not care about responsible gun ownership and want to excuse any behavior simply being guns are involved is just as irresponsible as the anti gun crowd blaming everything on guns.
Taking fentanyl is not a good decision, nor is resisting arrest. He shouldn't have faced the treatment he did that lead directly to his death after those decisions though.
But you are drawing a false parallel between the two.
Regardless, the point is all these situations are nuanced. And to the extent there's any similarities between the two situations, they both involve a series of bad decisions by multiple people that led to folks losing their lives.
Derek chauvin absolutely deserves to be in jail for his actions in my mind. No question.
On balance, I'd say so does Rittenhouse, but that's less clear in my mind. He made a bunch of really ******* stupid decisions that led him to that situation even if his actions in that moment were probably legally justified.
Nuance.
I wonder Would Lebron be offended if Senator Joe called him a Great Negro Basketball player?
I don’t watch cnn or msnbc, I wouldn’t know what they are saying.
You are acting like you know the facts. You know the version of the truth that you want to know. There is a reason why there is a trial and witnesses (cops, first responders, etc) because every thing you just claimed as truth is disputed and different people disagree with the sequence of events. They don’t even agree on how yo interpret the videos. So, they are trying to figure out what really happened through this process. It is very possible that he is not the bad guy people want to make him to be and nobody
But your comments on the president, media , etc obviously show that you have some preset opinions on the matter. Not saying they are good or bad, just saying it’s funny that you are trying to say that you are objectively right and factual when you have the same amount of bias as the people pouncing on him, just in the opposite direction.
Finally, my running away comment came from Krav Maga training (civilian level, not military). My instructor had 3 rules regarding fights:
- run away to avoid it
- if you can’t run away, shove/hit the people so that you can run away
- if neither is possible, use your krav mags training to hit to hurt until they can no longer fight.
The people that know the most about death and violence generally try to avoid it. A teenager with an AR policing the streets in another state is bizarre, there is no rationalizing that.
Absolutely play the case out and see what the verdict is. My opinion doesn't change that the performance he put on was rehearsed and not authentic.
Self defense or not, his actions were fvcked up and looking for a problem. This is not a hero or martyr in any way. Innocent or not.
I read that today … my GOD!!!! This guy is a train wreck lol.
I agree that Rittenhouse probably should have avoided the riot areas. But some of you are saying that people should just let rioters burn down buildings with no pushback.
i cant believe it has become so acceptable to just let people steal carts full of stuff, burn buildings, murder people in time square, etc. and groups still want to defund the police. But when anyone confronts them reactions are “how stupid are these people”.
I dont know how the verdict will come out, but thank God the guys he shot were white.
and then let’s not forget no matter what happens in the trial. Rittenhouse life is effed up for as long as he lives, which hopefully will be long. Some groups are already going after the jury.
i cant believe it has become so acceptable to just let people steal carts full of stuff, burn buildings, murder people in time square, etc. and groups still want to defund the police. But when anyone confronts them reactions are “how stupid are these people”.
I dont know how the verdict will come out, but thank God the guys he shot were white.
and then let’s not forget no matter what happens in the trial. Rittenhouse life is effed up for as long as he lives, which hopefully will be long. Some groups are already going after the jury.
please post the above statement on George Floyd to your social media accounts and report back on the response you receive.
of course I wouldn’t actually ask you to actually do this ….but for “FUN”… what do you think would happen … if a Democrat campaign strategist… of a sitting Congressman? Senator? Said … out loud …. “George Floyd, made some mistakes.”????
how “tolerant” do you think your leftist friends would be?
Who in this thread posted comments advocating for that? I must have missed them. I feel like you are projecting your political frustrations. To me, two wrongs don’t make one right. People rioting isn’t acceptable, not is a teenager playing vigilante.
I find the defund the police thing stupid. I have guns and a CPL. If Rittenhouse was defending his house, family, or business, I would have no issues with what he did.
The police is equipped and trained to deal with riots, that’s their job. They don’t need kids with guns running around streets playing cowboy.
What he did is a right wing fantasy, he “took matter in his own hands” and gunned down some leftists. For some, the political views and actions of these rioters justifies their deaths and that kid is a hero…
This country is truly in bad shape with some thinking they can’t be heard unless they riot and some too happy to use that as an excuse to bypass the judicial system and become Judge Dredd, judge, jury, and executioner. Not sure what it’s going to take to get some reason back into both sides.
Stop with the lies and rhetoric that this kid went in and "gunned down" some white guys. There are videos now available that were held back for some reason before that prove he was not the aggressor. Heck even the one guy he shot and did not kill admitted that he attacked KH and held a gun to him. This language is a huge part of the problem. And it is done on purpose by MSM and others.
The point still remains, he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
My real question is what the hell was his mother thinking to drive a 17 year old kid with an AR-15 into a riot zone? That is absolutely dumb.
Interesting that you didn't address any of the other points in my post.
You are defending a guy that obviously had bad intentions and had no business being there. If he was black, he would have been called an agitator, criticized for crossing state lines and inciting violence by parading around an AR in a conflict zone. When leftists do this and take over a neighborhood in Seattle or travel to Missouri to stir **** up, they get rightfully called out. But that kid was shown months before this incident taking pictures with his mom at a bar and flashing the White power hand sign. It's not a good look on you that you are defending someone with a very high likelihood of being a white supremacist. It's actually pathetic that people are using the excuse that he had to defend himself and absolve him of any responsibility. He went in there to intimidate. He's lucky it didn't cost him his life but he went in there to stir **** up and two people died. These two people should have gone to jail for rioting. And if you think rioters deserve the death penalty, do the Jan 6 rioters also deserve the death penalty? Are you consistent in your value system or is death justified only when people are leftists or black?
but the armed rioters are allowed to be there? What about the businesses that were impacted by the burning and rioting? this is a circular argument and part of the reason that it comes down to self defense.
The rioters would not have been shot if they stayed home that night. KR would not have gone to the area with a rifle if rioters were not burning cars and buildings. If law and order were enforced by those that should be given the support to do so, then business owners would not have sought help. chicken and egg.
What I do believe is that if none of the guys who were shot would have left KR alone, they would still be alive.
None of them should have been rioting, but he had no business being there. It wasn't his home, his business, or even people he knew. He isnt trained, the police didn't ask for his help, he had absolutely no business being there.
It's insanity to defend him being there. Absolutely stupid of his mother to take a dumb 17 year old kid with a gun to a riot. Just stupid and cost lives.
The situation was already stirred up before he got there. And your supposition that if he were black going into this would get a different reaction is projection of your own issues. I mean, it isnt like he was killing people in the CHAZ or whatever was going on in Seattle like some were doing. So he showed an OK symbol, I am ignorant on that being a true nazi symbol or whatever. I know people have tried to lambaste and make it racist to show that over the years. FIrst time I heard of that was the woman sitting behind Kavanaugh. But good job on using a photo as your already judging a kid, so maybe it isnt a good look on you to convict the kid with being racist, but yet he shot white guys.
What I love is that the argument against him always seems to go towards rioters dont deserve the death penalty. Completely false reasoning man. If that was the case, KR would have just started shooting people rioting, and not attacking him. And for Jan 6, yeah good question only one person was shot and killed that day. but the MSM doesnt like talking about that.
You project racism towards a kid who killed 2 white guys who were attacking him. the situation was already volatile before KR showed up. undeniable. would the two guys still be alive if KR stayed home? probably. But don't act like they didnt play a part and lead to him having to defend himself. They would just as easily be alive if they stayed home that night as well.
Look, you will not change your mind and will be pissed when he is not convicted as a murderer. And his life will be forever changed by his decision to put himself in that volatile situation. But think of the jurors if they choose not convict him. Two cases - Chauvin convicted no one cares about the jurors anymore, but these jurors may get a different reaction. And it is clear that it is supposed to be evidence based judgements, but LBJ, Joe Biden, the View, whoever else has already judged this kid without full knowledge of what happened.
Not all 17 year olds get to live such a protected life in a bubble as Lebron.
Look, we obviously aren't going to agree and that's okay. I could spend hours debunking the logical fallacies in your arguments. Like, you are saying he is not racist because he killed white guys. Of course he didn't set out to kill white guys, lol...
I will say this. I respect you. I don't want to think our disagreements get in the way of respect. I hope we can all come together over some shared values.
I’m just glad the people he shot weren’t black. He would be facing Federal Hate Crimes.
guilty or not, the traumatic experience of killing two people would make anyone on this board cry. Unless he's a complete sociopath, the tears were real. Hell, the thought of being in prison and the crap that goes on in there, I'd be crying 24/7
The question is - are any of his actions leading up to this illegal? Because that's how this works.
Not trying to argue as I agree with most of your post. I think Rittinghouse was stupid for being there. He LIKELY (though you cannot convict based on "likely") went looking for trouble. Looking to kill someone? Don't know about that one. And even if he did - if they attacked him and he defended himself legally, he should be found not guilty of that charge.
Not a popular guy, but supposedly George Zimmerman was a fairly well-adjusted guy before the Travon Martin thing. A little overzealous on the neighborhood watch maybe (we don't REALLY know what happened there).
But the stress of the trial and being dragged through the mud supposedly make him go full apeshit.
The attack depends on the "stand your ground" law in the state. A skateboard could reasonably be considered a deadly weapon - you could easily kill someone with it.
I’m kind of in this boat. He was dumb to be there and to put himself in that position. It was unnecessary and reckless. He acted in self defense. He should not be convicted of murder. But, his issues should serve as a cautionary tale. I have too much at stake to risk it all on something this insignificant. That isn’t to say there aren’t legitimate reasons for principled people to fight back over injustices or protect what is their’s. There are. This situation was avoidable, though, and not nearly important enough for a child to be out playing dress up paramilitary style.
I think the answer is yes, that his possession of that weapon while underage was criminal, as was transporting it across state lines. I don't know this for sure though.
I don't believe he went there to kill someone. I do believe he went there to be part of trouble. And doing so while armed with an AR-15 (to protect businesses) is just wildly reckless and immature.
But not illegal (perhaps). There is supposedly an exemption for 17 years old under some sort of hunting statute I think. May be a technicality, but the law is supposed to be absolute - not subject to "hurt feels".
As long as you legally acquire and own a firearm, it is perfectly legal to cross state lines with it.
Could be wrong but I'm not sure he owned it or had a license. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It was a straw purchase by a friend of his and he did not have a license.
Very well could be the case. I haven’t followed it all that closely since the initial coverage.
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