Keegan Elbow to RHJ

[kupuna133]

Picture of Ron leaning forward (not standing straight up) into Keegan so far he's literally half way up his bicep.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...tball-versus-iowa-part-ii.237395/post-5596873

That’s proper defensive stance. An athletic stance that allows to react to offensive player. Verticality is not literal straight up and down. That is one of the most bizarre interpretations of verticality I have ever seen.

 

[WildTurk_rivals155877]

And what happens when the offensive player is given room but then invades the defender’s cylinder? Should the defender just back up of all the way to the basket or does he have a right to stay in the same spot? Murray got the ball and dribbled into Ron, invading his cylinder. Ron is under no obligation to reposition himself.

Keegan didn't invade. Ron was already in Keegan's circle. Go back and watch it again.

 

[NickRU714]

I'm not sure I understand the rule.

offensive players can swing elbows above shoulders and if they connect it's a defensive foul? So if a defender is all over you we should be teaching kids to swing their elbows high?

No intent to on Murray's part but is that really the rule?

That's exactly what players do when they get rebounds. Arms/elbows up with the ball and create space to make a pass.

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

I'm not sure I understand the rule.

offensive players can swing elbows above shoulders and if they connect it's a defensive foul? So if a defender is all over you we should be teaching kids to swing their elbows high?

No intent to on Murray's part but is that really the rule?

When they possess the ball and the defender invades their space, yes, it is a defensive foul. It is not a defensive foul once they have driven into the defensive player’s space and the player doesn’t give any ground, which was the case here.

 

[RacPac12]

That's exactly what players do when they get rebounds. Arms/elbows up with the ball and create space to make a pass.

Not denying that's the rule just seems silly. Surprised a team hasn't pushed the bounds of this more honestly

 

[Scangg]

Lets start with some ground rules before all of the literal ignorance that will be rampant in this thread.

The defender has to give the offense space to operate.
Ron was literally on top of him and got hit by Keegan's bicep/elbow (see the picture in the game thread) and had his hand on Keegan's hip. You can't be on top of the guy.
It's literally the same as a reach-in on swinging the ball through from left to right.

Doesn't matter if Ron is moving or not and who initiated the contact.
It's a foul on the defender.
Same as stepping under a guy who is landing on a shot. You have to give him space.

If you are going up for a shot and elbow the defender on the way up - it's a foul on the defender for being so close.
Of if you are going up for a shot and hit the defenders arm - it's a foul on the defender for being in your space.

That's why defenders stand straight up and keep hands straight up because that is their space. If they lean/move hands forward then they are in the offensive players space.

https://247sports.com/college/north...oks-NCAA-Tournament-March-Madness--130546375/

Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1c. The space that a player may legally occupy is defined by an imaginary cylinder surrounding the player and which extends from the floor to as far above the player as he can jump or extend his arms and body. The diameter of the cylinder shall not extend beyond the hands/arms on the front (the arms bent at the elbow), the buttocks on the back and the legs on the sides. These dimensions may vary according to the height and size of the player.

Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1k. The offensive player must be allowed enough space to make a normal basketball play. The defense may not invade the vertical space of the offense and make illegal contact when the offensive player is attempting a normal basketball play. A normal basketball play in this context includes shooting, passing, dribbling or pivoting.


Hyland wrote: “If the defender has invaded the space of the offensive player and the offensive player attempts a “normal basketball play” (defined as attempting to shoot, pass, dribble, or pivot) by moving his elbows from side to side either above the shoulders or below the waist with the forearms more vertical than horizontal, any resulting contact (other than incidental contact) to a defensive player caused by the swinging of the elbow shall result in a foul on the defense.”

Then every single play is a foul where two bodies touch

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

Keegan didn't invade. Ron was already in Keegan's circle. Go back and watch it again.

When he caught the pass near the elbow, he was able to dribble, pivot, do whatever he wanted. Then he tried to back down Ron. That’s when he invaded his cylinder. Ron is almost 250 so he didn’t move. Then the pivot and rip through came. Offensive foul.

 

[Erial_Lion_rivals140457]

Even if you disagree with who the foul is on, how the **** can a replay change the initial call without their being a flagarant?!

That's the rule...Rule 11.2.1.d.1.b from this year's NCAA Rule Book, which covers the use of Instant Replay, states...

b. When there is a foul called for swinging of the elbows involving the cylinder rule or a hook and hold play, the officials may review the play and adjudicate all penalties by removing fouls, assessing fouls against any player or concluding that no foul(s) occurred.

 

[RU_03]

That's the rule...Rule 11.1.d.2.b from this year's NCAA Rule Book, which covers the use of Instant Replay, states...

b. When there is a foul called for swinging of the elbows involving the cylinder rule or a hook and hold play, the officials may review the play and adjudicate all penalties by removing fouls, assessing fouls against any player or concluding that no foul(s) occurred.

Thanks, didn't know this one.

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

Great. Please let me know all the times you've seen that called. Please show me all the times when we've elbowed opponents that the recipient of the elbow gets called for the foul.

Never once has that call gone in our favor

btw that was not the first time an RU has been hit in the face or head and got called for the foul. That’s happened like 3 or 4 times this year

 

[Erial_Lion_rivals140457]

Thanks, didn't know this one.

It was certainly a borderline call...however, it is something that they are supposed to review and potentially change. I've been surprised at many of the cylinder calls that I've seen in the past few years, as they really seem to give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt.

 

[SJScarlet]

Lets start with some ground rules before all of the literal ignorance that will be rampant in this thread.

The defender has to give the offense space to operate.
Ron was literally on top of him and got hit by Keegan's bicep/elbow (see the picture in the game thread) and had his hand on Keegan's hip. You can't be on top of the guy.
It's literally the same as a reach-in on swinging the ball through from left to right.

Doesn't matter if Ron is moving or not and who initiated the contact.
It's a foul on the defender.
Same as stepping under a guy who is landing on a shot. You have to give him space.

If you are going up for a shot and elbow the defender on the way up - it's a foul on the defender for being so close.
Of if you are going up for a shot and hit the defenders arm - it's a foul on the defender for being in your space.

That's why defenders stand straight up and keep hands straight up because that is their space. If they lean/move hands forward then they are in the offensive players space.

https://247sports.com/college/north...oks-NCAA-Tournament-March-Madness--130546375/

Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1c. The space that a player may legally occupy is defined by an imaginary cylinder surrounding the player and which extends from the floor to as far above the player as he can jump or extend his arms and body. The diameter of the cylinder shall not extend beyond the hands/arms on the front (the arms bent at the elbow), the buttocks on the back and the legs on the sides. These dimensions may vary according to the height and size of the player.

Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1k. The offensive player must be allowed enough space to make a normal basketball play. The defense may not invade the vertical space of the offense and make illegal contact when the offensive player is attempting a normal basketball play. A normal basketball play in this context includes shooting, passing, dribbling or pivoting.


Hyland wrote: “If the defender has invaded the space of the offensive player and the offensive player attempts a “normal basketball play” (defined as attempting to shoot, pass, dribble, or pivot) by moving his elbows from side to side either above the shoulders or below the waist with the forearms more vertical than horizontal, any resulting contact (other than incidental contact) to a defensive player caused by the swinging of the elbow shall result in a foul on the defense.”

You should read Hyland’s interpretation of the rule that you posted more closely, as it does not permit of the offensive player leaning forward in a low stance and swinging their elbows left to right at chest level, which is precisely what Murray did. That Bo decided to not only review but change the call on the floor was a (predictable) travesty.

 

[Leonard23]

Lets start with some ground rules before all of the literal ignorance that will be rampant in this thread.

The defender has to give the offense space to operate.
Ron was literally on top of him and got hit by Keegan's bicep/elbow (see the picture in the game thread) and had his hand on Keegan's hip. You can't be on top of the guy.
It's literally the same as a reach-in on swinging the ball through from left to right.

Doesn't matter if Ron is moving or not and who initiated the contact.
It's a foul on the defender.
Same as stepping under a guy who is landing on a shot. You have to give him space.

If you are going up for a shot and elbow the defender on the way up - it's a foul on the defender for being so close.
Of if you are going up for a shot and hit the defenders arm - it's a foul on the defender for being in your space.

That's why defenders stand straight up and keep hands straight up because that is their space. If they lean/move hands forward then they are in the offensive players space.

https://247sports.com/college/north...oks-NCAA-Tournament-March-Madness--130546375/

Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1c. The space that a player may legally occupy is defined by an imaginary cylinder surrounding the player and which extends from the floor to as far above the player as he can jump or extend his arms and body. The diameter of the cylinder shall not extend beyond the hands/arms on the front (the arms bent at the elbow), the buttocks on the back and the legs on the sides. These dimensions may vary according to the height and size of the player.

Rule 4, Section 39, Article 1k. The offensive player must be allowed enough space to make a normal basketball play. The defense may not invade the vertical space of the offense and make illegal contact when the offensive player is attempting a normal basketball play. A normal basketball play in this context includes shooting, passing, dribbling or pivoting.


Hyland wrote: “If the defender has invaded the space of the offensive player and the offensive player attempts a “normal basketball play” (defined as attempting to shoot, pass, dribble, or pivot) by moving his elbows from side to side either above the shoulders or below the waist with the forearms more vertical than horizontal, any resulting contact (other than incidental contact) to a defensive player caused by the swinging of the elbow shall result in a foul on the defense.”

The ref explained it but I couldn't hear on the broadcast.
He was talking to the sideline guys and the camera was right there.

It would be reviewed because of blah blah
It could be reversed because of blah blah.
They never said it over the air though.

I'll rewatch later and see if I can hear it better.

Please show me the rule that allows a ref to use replay to overturn a common foul called on 1 player and assess it on another.

 

[Erial_Lion_rivals140457]

Please show me the rule that allows a ref to use replay to overturn a common foul called on 1 player and assess it on another.

Rule 11.2.1.d.1.b

 

[RU 77]

The fix was in. That tool Bardo must have had money on it.

 

[cohawk_rivals155870]

No. Murray initialed all the contact and swung a high elbow. That’s not a cylinder rule.

Apparently it was. Stop whining. You lost.

 

[sct1111]

Which "basketball move" is when you swing your elbows at your defenders head? I forget?

 

[PatrickRU92]

Apparently it was. Stop whining. You lost.

go shove it you poor winner. I don't see anyone here dissing Iowa's team we've all been pretty complimentary

doesn't change the fact that that call was beyond ridiculous , and if it happened to Iowa and not us you would be bitching about it too.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

I hate when players thrust their heads into opposing players elbows. Basically, we have to learn from this that if there ever is a foul involving contact to the head…we are always at fault…probably even if we are not playing.

 

[G- RUnit]

instant replay cannot reverse a foul call how the eff do they do that. Not only was that a foul but by the NCAA rules that was a clear Flagrant 1. That play alone was a 6 point swing because they gave the ball back to Iowa also with no call
Just a perfect example of the BS reffing that went on all game

All game?
All year!
All history of B1G!!!!

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

Apparently it was. Stop whining. You lost.

Lol. Your board hasn’t stopped whining about the last Iowa-RU game and you have the nerve to come over here and say this. Gtfo.

 

[kupuna133]

Lol. Your board hasn’t stopped whining about the last Iowa-RU game and you have the nerve to come over here and say this. Gtfo.

There were 2 fanbases that I expected to be most civil and knowledgeable. Wisconsin and Iowa. Both have let me down considerably.Iowa whines like nothing I have ever seen and Wisconsin fans are some of the least knowledgeable I have encountered outside of UConn and Syracuse.

 

[cohawk_rivals155870]

Lol. Your board hasn’t stopped whining about the last Iowa-RU game and you have the nerve to come over here and say this. Gtfo.

That was Jan 19th. They stopped whining long ago. You were rolled be a better team.

 

[hawkimatt]

Get off our board I’m not wrong. Go celebrate on your board for ****s sake

Oh we will. Just sayin hi.

 

[theiacowtipper]

There were 2 fanbases that I expected to be most civil and knowledgeable. Wisconsin and Iowa. Both have let me down considerably.Iowa whines like nothing I have ever seen and Wisconsin fans are some of the least knowledgeable I have encountered outside of UConn and Syracuse.

Iowa boards are intolerable after a loss, usually whining about the referees. However, you can’t call this board anything but whiny after the game.

Fact is that Rutgers didn’t get more calls because they were passive and didn’t attack the Iowa zone. They didn’t do a good job against the zone at alol. Good luck the rest of the year and I look forward to watching Iowa Rutgers next year.

 

[Scarlet83]

I hate when players thrust their heads into opposing players elbows. Basically, we have to learn from this that if there ever is a foul involving contact to head…we are always at fault…probably even if we are not playing.

Magoo, you may not have seen the chin drills that Pike teaches on D. We have the most aggressive chins in the conference. We will absolutely mess up the oppositions elbows with our chins.

 

[rob kight]

Never once has that call gone in our favor

btw that was not the first time an RU has been hit in the face or head and got called for the foul. That’s happened like 3 or 4 times this year

Only gets call against RU. I can’t remember a call for this against opponent.

 

[Scarlet83]

Only gets call against RU. I can’t remember a call for this against opponent.

And Rutgers made more baskets than Iowa. I wonder how we lost?

 

[Szohn]

Yes. Fran and Iowa are constantly receiving the love of the refs. Always. I like your team a lot, just not their day.

How did the last game End VS Iowa?
2 seconds to go one of the worst calls ever
Thought Rutgers said Iowa fans always beech about the refs. GEEZ !

 

[kupuna133]

Iowa boards are intolerable after a loss, usually whining about the referees. However, you can’t call this board anything but whiny after the game.

Fact is that Rutgers didn’t get more calls because they were passive and didn’t attack the Iowa zone. They didn’t do a good job against the zone at alol. Good luck the rest of the year and I look forward to watching Iowa Rutgers next year.

All fanbases can be a little whiny after losses. My opinion is based off of how these particular fanbases behave in wins and losses and less to do with message boards(I don’t go to other schools fan boards) and more to do with in person behavior. Iowa was more tolerable than Wisconsin but didn’t carry themselves with any humility. Wisconsin has been classless and intolerable.

 

[[email protected]]

instant replay cannot reverse a foul call how the eff do they do that. Not only was that a foul but by the NCAA rules that was a clear Flagrant 1. That play alone was a 6 point swing because they gave the ball back to Iowa also with no call
Just a perfect example of the BS reffing that went on all game

Obviously, Harper used his face as a weapon~

MO

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

That was Jan 19th. They stopped whining long ago. You were rolled be a better team.

They were still talking about it when I checked the Iowa board yesterday. Better team won that night and the better team won today. Both can be true. Iowa fans just can’t accept that. Get lost.

 

[the24fan]

instant replay cannot reverse a foul call how the eff do they do that. Not only was that a foul but by the NCAA rules that was a clear Flagrant 1. That play alone was a 6 point swing because they gave the ball back to Iowa also with no call
Just a perfect example of the BS reffing that went on all game

You want to talk B.S calls how bout Courtney Green bailing out you guys on that phantom foul late in the game a few weeks back? RH barely got breathed on and the whistle came out! That was a flat out embarrassing call and you guys know it . Karma is a b!tch! Take the L and sit down….You weren’t beating Iowa on this day even if you got that call. Oh and it WAS the right call . Harper was in the cylinder…

 

[Scarlet Blind_rivals]

20 conference games
Rutgers 327 PFs 16.4 FTs 200-279
Opponents 277 PFs 13.9 FTs 221-301

Iowa 345 PFs 17.3, FTs 266-378
Opponents 348 PFs 17.4, FTs 253-355

Today, Rutgers 24 Iowa 14

 

[Ru-baby]

Bo special Momentum swing

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

Apparently it was. Stop whining. You lost.

You lost because you’ve lived in Iowa.

 

[Scangg]

Iowa fans showing zero class. We didn't go to their board in droves and rub in our win.

 

[JerseyShoreKnight]

They were still talking about it when I checked the Iowa board yesterday. Better team won that night and the better team won today. Both can be true. Iowa fans just can’t accept that. Get lost.

You want to talk B.S calls how bout Courtney Green bailing out you guys on that phantom foul late in the game a few weeks back? RH barely got breathed on and the whistle came out! That was a flat out embarrassing call and you guys know it . Karma is a b!tch! Take the L and sit down….You weren’t beating Iowa on this day even if you got that call. Oh and it WAS the right call . Harper was in the cylinder…

Wow. This is perfect. Lmao.

 

[Scangg]

Iowa boards are intolerable after a loss, usually whining about the referees. However, you can’t call this board anything but whiny after the game.

Fact is that Rutgers didn’t get more calls because they were passive and didn’t attack the Iowa zone. They didn’t do a good job against the zone at alol. Good luck the rest of the year and I look forward to watching Iowa Rutgers next year.

This isn't true. Geo Ron Cliff etc all lot of contact taking it inside no calls. Ron face and nothing contacts fouls. A bunch of other nothing soft calls. You shot a billion FTs. Acknowledge you got the whistle all night at least or go away

 

[PatrickRU92]

You want to talk B.S calls how bout Courtney Green bailing out you guys on that phantom foul late in the game a few weeks back? RH barely got breathed on and the whistle came out! That was a flat out embarrassing call and you guys know it . Karma is a b!tch! Take the L and sit down….You weren’t beating Iowa on this day even if you got that call. Oh and it WAS the right call . Harper was in the cylinder…

go jam something up your cornhole (ha). you guys are the worst coming here rubbing our noses in it. Classless corn bitches. You suck. Go back to your flyover ********.