Jamal Murray = Archie Goodwin 2.0

[kybassfan]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

More drain bramage among the fan base.

I ask you, have we NEVER seen a player in a shooting slump in our history? Did we just start watching basketball?

 

[Federal Cat]

No, not, just no

 

[.S&C.]

Please tell us what a "uniformed" post really is. If you decide to throw out such arbitrary statements don't demonstrate your limited mental capacity by using words that don't exist. What type of uniforms would this post be wearing? And for the record, I've been watching UK basketball for close to 50 years and have seen multiple players come and go so please impart your knowledge on why this post is "uniformed". For the record it's "misinformed" , so the next time you attack a poster please try to use the correct grammatical context.

Fail.

 

[Aike]

More drain bramage among the fan base.

I ask you, have we NEVER seen a player in a shooting slump in our history? Did we just start watching basketball?

Murray isn't even shooting THAT poorly. He's only been below 33% from three in 2 of 10 games.

 

[kybassfan]

Murray isn't even shooting THAT poorly. He's only been below 33% from three in 2 of 10 games.

Shush! Zaytoven will cry.

 

[Bratkartoffeln]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

I'm sorry fellow Cat fan, but with all due respect, just reading the first sentence, I instantly realized that you must be out of your freaking mind. I did not read further and this really merits no further response, but I'm going help you anyway. For credible postings, it helps to get all spelling and grammar use correct. Change "freshmen" to read "freshman." And yes, one thousand times, it (grammar and spelling) does make a difference. I knew just from that you were in way over your head on this. These things really do bring out the irascible old coot in me.

 

[Gangswa]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

Youre drunk.....sleep it off.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

Only someone totally blind or ignorant could compare Murrays game to Goodwins. That was really a terrible post Zaytoven.

 

[warrior-cat]

Typical early responses that we are seeing now. From Skal not being good to this. These are good players who are still learning to play at this level. Cal will have them right by seasons end. That and Tyler being the floor general he is will help this team live up to its potential. We are 9-1 this year, 47-2 in the last 2 years.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Ugh. I hate to pile on, but this is probably top 10 Cats Illustrated worst ever OP.

 

[Chuckinden]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

This post is overrated.

No way is Murray playing identical to Archie Goodwin. Murray doesn't play selfish, not a ball hog, drive down the lane, throw up a prayer and fall on his azz. Murray is just not playing well right now, but he isn't playing like Archie Goodwin.

 

[Bkocats]

I just had a crazy thought - is it possible that the OP confused Murray and Briscoe? Because, IMO - you can make more of a comparison with Briscoe and Goodwin than Murray and Goodwin.

Just a thought

 

[Chuckinden]

I just had a crazy thought - is it possible that the OP confused Murray and Briscoe? Because, IMO - you can make more of a comparison with Briscoe and Goodwin than Murray and Goodwin.

Just a thought

I can't help it, but there hasn't been anyone I know of that ever been here to compared to Goodwin.

 

[DaveUK4life]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

Nah, he's better than Goodwin. Yeah, he chucks the ball too much, but he is much smarter and a much better shooter than Archie. I'm ok with where he is at.

And I thought Brandon Knight's team was bound for the S16 at best. I could see this team going out early or deep. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[LexCatnOhio]

Murray and Ulis are the best players on our team. But way more creative and offensively inclined than Arch @ this stage. I liked Goodwin he was explosive @ times but was outta control others. You see how he's doing now though. So one could almost take the OPs thread as a compliment. Both are gonna be great ball players for a long time.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Agreed with everything. Murray is more talented than Archie no doubt.

My main point in the comparison was poor shooting plus a lot of turnovers from the SG/SF position.

I appreciate your reasonable post.

There are some similarities in their stats, but Murray is significantly better at 3% and assist/To ratio. Murray is way superior on ft's. But it's more than that. Just watching them play showed a glaring difference. One is super smooth with a ridiculous ceiling. The other was a decent player who was what he was. If Murray was on that '13 team, I'm pretty sure you'd see some gaudy numbers from him. The reason everyone is criticizing you so much on this is simply the eye test. Murray looks elite while Archie always looked limited. I think that will be abundantly clear by the end of the year.

 

[whhs22]

Goodwin was uncoachable. Reason is he never bought into Cal and his plan. It was clear at some point that year Goodwin had given up on Ky and was only interested in show casing himself and gettin a draft spot.

Do not see that in Murray. He is fine. A very young man in a grown mans body. Murray is bigger then most think. He is way to smart and has played on teams with mature men that have helped him. Seriously cant see him completely ignoring Cal and turn his back on his teammates to get his. Thats what goodwin did.

 

[brianpoe]

Goodwin was uncoachable. Reason is he never bought into Cal and his plan. It was clear at some point that year Goodwin had given up on Ky and was only interested in show casing himself and gettin a draft spot.

Do not see that in Murray. He is fine. A very young man in a grown mans body. Murray is bigger then most think. He is way to smart and has played on teams with mature men that have helped him. Seriously cant see him completely ignoring Cal and turn his back on his teammates to get his. Thats what goodwin did.

There was no plan that could have worked with that team.

PG disappeared.
Un-athletic 5th year transfer shot too much with poor results.
Kyle was only effective when wide open.
Noel didnt have much offense before he was hurt.
WCS had no offense.
Poy disappeared off and on.


Archie was mindnumbing at times I have lessened my critique of him over time as he did play extremely hard on both ends. Not sure what Cal could have done different, if he really hated the way Archie played he could always have gone to Hood or Beckham..... [winking]

 

[EliteBlue]

Goodwin and Briscoe have very similar games. Goodwin might have been the better shooter between the 2. You put Archie on this team and Briscoe on the '13 team and we would have had the same results. People would have bashed Briscoe and Goodwin would be playing well within this offense since there are 2 other guards that can create

 

[katntonic]

You are so far off base it isn't even funny, Goodwin in his time here relentlessly attacked the basket and was out of control the whole time. Murray is much more deliberate in his actions and has many more weapons at his disposal when he gets there. Goodwin would have been well served with the pull up or the even the floater that Murray has at his. Very different players.

 

[brianpoe]

Little bit of Archie love...

 

[ThunderCat98]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

 

[Poetax]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

Yeah it's amazing how we all see games differently.

 

[Bkocats]

I can't help it, but there hasn't been anyone I know of that ever been here to compared to Goodwin.

oh I don't think they compare, really - just saying that would make more sense than the Murray/Goodwin one

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Much like another fellow freshmen and this team in general, Murray is very overrated. Outside of an exhibition game and 1-2 regular games he's shot like crap and he's turned into a turnover waiting to happen. At this point he's playing identical to how Goodwin played here.

Where's are those posters from earlier this year who said it was too early to worry about anything and that everything would be fine?

At this point I'm more looking forward to 2017 than April 2016 because we are a S16 team at best right now.

I watched Murray for 2 years in HS.. right now he is playing like he did as a soph in HS. Erractic play with flashes of what he could become. As a junior he turned the corner and become the unstoppable player we saw last season as a Junior in HS.

Now this season he is looking like his soph year in HS but what is their to say that he doesn't become his Junior season self later this year or maybe next season.
I think you would see a different player out their with a lot more asists if others were knocking down shots and being a factor in post play. Ulis is playing the same as Murray but not as loose with the ball but Ulis is also a soph.

 

[whhs22]

cal like he had done the year before that new he had to coach the team up and have everyone buy in or they would be dead in the water. luckily the year before Cal had coachable players in Knight,Jorts,Lamb, Miller and Jones so by the end of the year they we're playing great team ball with a purpose. that's nothing more then your players trusting the coach and fallowing a game plan.

Archie was selfish. as much as you want to believe his hard play was to better his team it's not true. Archie played for Archie. once he thought anything would affect his draft status he went to his own play book. with only the results bettering him. in no way was Archie going to summit to a team concept. reason being is Archie was gone and he new it. so in turn every play became him trying to show case him not the team. to me that's selfish.

 

[ThunderCat98]

cal like he had done the year before that new he had to coach the team up and have everyone buy in or they would be dead in the water. luckily the year before Cal had coachable players in Knight,Jorts,Lamb, Miller and Jones so by the end of the year they we're playing great team ball with a purpose. that's nothing more then your players trusting the coach and fallowing a game plan.

Archie was selfish. as much as you want to believe his hard play was to better his team it's not true. Archie played for Archie. once he thought anything would affect his draft status he went to his own play book. with only the results bettering him. in no way was Archie going to summit to a team concept. reason being is Archie was gone and he new it. so in turn every play became him trying to show case him not the team. to me that's selfish.

Serious questions - (1) who else on that team even tried to score? (2) who else did you want taking those shots?

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

I just had a crazy thought - is it possible that the OP confused Murray and Briscoe? Because, IMO - you can make more of a comparison with Briscoe and Goodwin than Murray and Goodwin.

Just a thought

Briscoe is like Goodwin, except not as athletic, somehow even more unreliable as a shooter, way more reliable at finishing around the basket (best layup shooting freshman in UK history?), and is an All-conference level defender.

All-in-all, the differences are certainly a net positive.

But I'll also agree that people shouldn't dump on Archie - he gave effort and by non-Cal standards, was really, really impressive for a freshman.

 

[Bkocats]

Briscoe is like Goodwin, except somehow even more unreliable as a shooter, way more reliable at finishing around the basket (best layup shooting freshman in UK history?), and an All-conference level defender.

As I told (I think it was Chuck) - I really don't think they compare - but it's a better comparison than Murray/Goodwin - if that makes sense?

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

As I told (I think it was Chuck) - I really don't think they compare - but it's a better comparison than Murray/Goodwin - if that makes sense?

Yeah, no I agree. They both fall under the (rather broad) category of "muscular slashing guards who are spotty shooters", a category that often is ranked high out of HS (more physically developed than their peers) and then really often peters out in the NBA, because they can't bully people any more when everyone else is very strong, or very athletic, or both. It's a really broad category, but I'm talking about Briscoe, Goodwin, the Harrison Twins, Joe Crawford, etc (and many not at UK) -

look at the McDonalds AA game every year, and you can put money down that the kids who will have the hardest time cracking lineups in the NBA are the early developing slashing guards - the NBA bigs are going to keep your fg% too low to be useful unless you learn how to pull up for a long J and/or drain 3s.

Briscoe has really started to take pride in his defense, which might keep him in an NBA rotation moreso than the others.

 

[JayCatz44]

@ZaytovenCat is by far the least intelligent poster on here. He should go cheer for Newman at MSU.

 

[Anon1636989421]

OP I do not agree with your comparison at all. Murray had more assists than Archie in one game than Archie had all year. (maybe?) Archie's focus was on scoring and Jamal seems to have a better feel for the game in total. I think that by year end he will be our Jeff Shepherd not Archie Goodwin. Our go to guy. Just my thoughts but yours are well taken.

 

[kyups01]

I would take Jamal Murray over any guard Calipari has had here.

 

[UK2005_24]

I would take Jamal Murray over any guard Calipari has had here.

Me too... Hes hasn't even scratched the surface. ....

 

[kyboss360]

OP just still mad we didn't get Newman. He thinks Newman is better than Murray and briscoe

He loves the flashy players. Big time scorers and the media hyped players. l doubt he will ever get over Wiggins.

 

[CharlieT71059]

not
Archie, For sure

 

[akaukswoosh]

CoachCal.com ‏@CoachCalDotCom 5m5 minutes ago

Jamal Murray avg'd 16.5 pts, 5.0 rebs and 4.5 assts/game last week, and the SEC named him the Freshman of the Week: http://www.coachcal.com/36817/2015/12/murray-tabbed-sec-freshman-of-the-week/…

 

[JayCatz44]

CoachCal.com ‏@CoachCalDotCom 5m5 minutes ago

Jamal Murray avg'd 16.5 pts, 5.0 rebs and 4.5 assts/game last week, and the SEC named him the Freshman of the Week: http://www.coachcal.com/36817/2015/12/murray-tabbed-sec-freshman-of-the-week/…

But Malik Newman was amazing in high school. How can this be?

 

[wcc31]

@ZaytovenCat is by far the least intelligent poster on here. He should go cheer for Newman at MSU.

He's in the conversation, for sure. It's funny- it's the same idiots all the time.

 

[.S&C.]

I would take Jamal Murray over any guard Calipari has had here.

This can't be serious.