Hopkins vs UCONN

G-PIP

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Mar 14, 2014
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If that were the case, then why is he perfectly happy to play PF now? He plays exclusively at the 4 for Providence and is totally kicking *** there. If he thinks as you suggest, then why would he transfer to a school where the coach intended to use him as Cooley does?

We went through a similar thing with Poythress. For years Cal kept trying to make him into a 3, where he thoroughly struggled. Then his final season, Cal finally let him stay at the 4 and he performed much better. Never got the impression that was Poy’s choice. think it’s mostly Cal’s issue, not theirs, he’s long been known for trying to wedge players into positions where they’re less comfortable in search of bigger longer lineups.
Of course, I don’t know whether or not Hopkins wanted to play SF or came to UK with the understanding that he would be allowed to play the 3 instead of the 4. I just know – because we’ve seen it forever – that traditionally (at least the last 40 years or so) almost every high ranked recruit wanted to play down a position because they thought it improved their desirability to the NBA. And I don’t see that what Hopkins is doing now at Providence proves it one way or the other. (But maybe he’s said something publicly that you’ve seen or read)

In the end , however, it really doesn’t matter does it? Because I agree with you it’s the coach’s responsibility to put a player in the spot he best helps the team win, regardless of what the player wants. So, whether Calipari pushes this unproductive and harmful (to the team) idea of playing down a position or it’s the player’s desire, the result is usually the same in my opinion – a team prone to offensive struggles and generally not as good as it could be.
 

G-PIP

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Mar 14, 2014
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There were people that hated to see Hopkins go. He showed last season what he could do against LSU. He’s the prototypical college power forward and was as a freshman. Dude’s built like a damn tank and has ball skills. He played PG in high school. Cal, of course, misused him, bigly.
CC, I'll gladly take a 6'6"-6'7" skilled brawny PF over an unskilled 6'9"-6'-10" skinny athlete PF in college any day - and where they were ranked coming out of high school is irrelevant.
 

ManitouDan_anon

Heisman
Dec 7, 2006
20,073
32,434
0
There are several statements in this post that I’ll take issue with.

First, I’m not sure it’s even accurate to say his competition was Brooks and Toppin last year, because Cal refused to play him at the 4 and instead stubbornly insisted on playing him out of position at the 3.

Second, I’m not sure why it should’ve been presumed that he would “never play over Brooks and Toppin”, considering he’s now clearly proving that he’s better than both of those guys.

Third, what is your basis for claiming “he did not want to work at UK?” I’m guessin you have none. Looked like he busted his *** when he came in to me.

And it’s hard to blame him for wanting to leave given the way he was jerked around and lied to here. Remember when he had that great performance that saved us against LSU? At the press conference afterward, Cal explicitly said that he would have to play Bryce a lot more now. Well, that turned out to be a total lie, as Cal instead seemed to completely forget about him after that game and never gave him meaningful minutes again.

Would you wanna keep playing for a coach who handled you like that?
Pretty much a knock out punch delivered to O-3
 

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,308
55,336
100
CC, I'll gladly take a 6'6"-6'7" skilled brawny PF over an unskilled 6'9"-6'-10" skinny athlete PF in college any day - and where they were ranked coming out of high school is irrelevant.
Exactly right, especially in the modern game. Cal is just enamored with the tall, long athletic freak of an athlete. Whether or not the kid can even maintain position in the post or not, or whether they can dribble/pass or not. Yet, he talks about positionless basketball, with a bunch of athletes that are absolutely pigeonholed to one position on the floor, due to limitations.

This is mainly due to defensive potential. Meanwhile, he won’t even put pressure on anyone defensively to actually parlay that defense into offense. He would rather play M2M switching defense, while not playing passing lanes and either keep guys in front or funnel them to a shot blocker. His philosophy flat out blows.
 

ManitouDan_anon

Heisman
Dec 7, 2006
20,073
32,434
0
Ah the great Cal cycle
1. Player looks like a superstar before Kentucky
2. Player is hyped up in pre-season
3. Gets to Kentucky
4. Suddenly forgets how to play
5. Cal cuts his minutes
6. Cal benches him
7. “I’m trying to find him a spot” -Cal
8. Cal continues to bench him
9. Player transfers
10. Player remembers how to play
REPEAT
While CJ wasnt a superstar , this is the exact treatment he's been getting , and gonna get .
 

UKAlum84

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Aug 4, 2022
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There's way too many variables to consider at UK.

I think hopkins could've been a star here but he was not given enough playing time to bloom.
 
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cal=8

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Nov 3, 2009
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I was listening to the Sunday call in show on Wlap a while back and they were talking about Hopkins. They said he'd made up his mind to transfer Dec. of last year. Cal played him and Allen quite a bit early on. Neither earned a spot and we don't see what happens in practice. I do question why he didn't play him more later in the season after he had that big game. Especially with the injuries. There's probably more to the story than meets the eye.
 
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Jont0805

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Mar 25, 2019
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Let's also remember, that when you rely heavily on the 1AD model, there's going to be transfers, and you're not always going to bat 1.000 on picking the right guys.

No one here was sad to see Hopkins go, as I recall.. as we figured "Well we have Toppin, and Collins is looking great!".. turns out, maybe Hopkins was better than both. Usually, the right guy transfers and both parties are better for it. In this scenario, it looks like a miss on Cal's part. But it's not like everyone who transfers goes on to be substantially better.
I disagree. No one was upset to see brooks go, hindsight maybe we should have been. Hopkins was one of those guys everyone knew would be successful wherever he went and could have really helped this team.

Also at no point in his almost two years now have i ever heard a fan say “collins is looking great.” He has a play or two every once in a while, but is still very far away from being excited about.
 
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LineSkiCat14

Heisman
Aug 5, 2015
39,528
62,279
113
I disagree. No one was upset to see brooks go, hindsight maybe we should have been. Hopkins wa some of those guys everyone knew would be successful wherever he went and could have really helped this team.

Also at no point in his almost two years now have i ever heard a fan say “collins is looking great.” He has a play or two every once in a while, but is still very far away from being excited about.

I don't think anyone WANTS to see players transfers.. but plenty of posters figured "meh, we got a lot of PFs anyways", and you can see it in that very thread. I think everyone here is well aware, now, that Hopkins turned out to be a miss. And maybe some posters saw that coming.

But there's also "some" posters here always say we lost out on a guy when they decide to transfer, and almost enjoy it. But plenty of them should have transfered because they just weren't that great. Broken clock, so to speak, I guess.

People and pundits were very much talking up Collins in the off season, Bahamas and leading into the start of the season. I was cautious, but optimistic. But the articles about him, and the buzz, were certainly there.
 
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Jont0805

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I don't think anyone WANTS to see players transfers.. but plenty of posters figured "meh, we got a lot of PFs anyways", and you can see it in that very thread. I think everyone here is well aware, now, that Hopkins turned out to be a miss. And maybe some posters saw that coming.

But there's also "some" posters here always say we lost out on a guy when they decide to transfer, and almost enjoy it. But plenty of them should have transfered because they just weren't that great. Broken clock, so to speak, I guess.

People and pundits were very much talking up Collins in the off season, Bahamas and leading into the start of the season. I was cautious, but optimistic. But the articles about him, and the buzz, were certainly there.
Correct, just like there is buzz every year, but on court results speak an entirely different story.

Only reason I watched the music city bowl with excitement was because of all the buzz with wade. That was a waste lol. If toppin plays hard and smart like last two games that would be great, otherwise the hype he has had the last two years is all noise as well.

I would say it’s about 50/50 on transfers, with most recently being players who could really have contributed given a career at Kentucky.

But Cal doesn’t recruit players to have a career at Kentucky and that hurts a lot when building a program. How many programs would tyty have left to play 1 minute all season in the nba?

When you have a guy or two go to the d league every year, it’s probably a good idea to keep the others from transferring. Maybe the money will keep the ones here this year, who knows.
 
Jan 10, 2015
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Well, it would’ve helped if Cal would’ve allowed him to play his natural position here instead of trying to force him into the wrong spot.

How many 4s in the country are having a better season than Hopkins? Kid is averaging a near double double. Becoming a legit star.
Like the same thing he does to Livingston!
 
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LineSkiCat14

Heisman
Aug 5, 2015
39,528
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Correct, just like there is buzz every year, but on court results speak an entirely different story.

Only reason I watched the music city bowl with excitement was because of all the buzz with wade. That was a waste lol. If toppin plays hard and smart like last two games that would be great, otherwise the hype he has had the last two years is all noise as well.

I would say it’s about 50/50 on transfers, with most recently being players who could really have contributed given a career at Kentucky.

But Cal doesn’t recruit players to have a career at Kentucky and that hurts a lot when building a program. How many programs would tyty have left to play 1 minute all season in the nba?

When you have a guy or two go to the d league every year, it’s probably a good idea to keep the others from transferring. Maybe the money will keep the ones here this year, who knows.

It does seem the recent ones have actually been the ones who got away, as opposed to the transfers in the early 2010s.

It's only gonna get worse with the transfer portal. I don't know how these coaches are gonna be able to recruit kids (and transfers) when they have no idea who will be on the team next year at all.
 

saxonburgcat

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Aug 22, 2012
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Harrow actually did very well after he left. He averaged 18 points per game and led Georgia State to two of its best seasons in that program’s entire history …including a huge NCAA tournament upset victory over Baylor.

He had a very nice final act at GSU.

What about Allen? Cal was bashed over and over for not playing him more and he is now averaging 5 points a game for WKU! I haven't seen a single poster admit they were wrong about this one.
 

cal=8

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Nov 3, 2009
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I don't think anyone WANTS to see players transfers.. but plenty of posters figured "meh, we got a lot of PFs anyways", and you can see it in that very thread. I think everyone here is well aware, now, that Hopkins turned out to be a miss. And maybe some posters saw that coming.

But there's also "some" posters here always say we lost out on a guy when they decide to transfer, and almost enjoy it. But plenty of them should have transfered because they just weren't that great. Broken clock, so to speak, I guess.

People and pundits were very much talking up Collins in the off season, Bahamas and leading into the start of the season. I was cautious, but optimistic. But the articles about him, and the buzz, were certainly there.
I'm one of those that expected Collins to be better but look at what the guy went through. I will bet that by March he'll be an integral part of this team. If he is it'll be a great story.
 

Jont0805

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Mar 25, 2019
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It does seem the recent ones have actually been the ones who got away, as opposed to the transfers in the early 2010s.

It's only gonna get worse with the transfer portal. I don't know how these coaches are gonna be able to recruit kids (and transfers) when they have no idea who will be on the team next year at all.
Football a nice strategy is get some quality transfer freshman I would say. Because they are stuck in your program until they graduate.

Basketball much harder for a program like Kentucky who relies on elite talent. Easier for programs who develop 4 year guys as they expect to develop in college.

I agree, the free agency every season is going to make it much more difficult for everyone, except the top dogs.
 

STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
65,264
58,544
98
What about Allen? Cal was bashed over and over for not playing him more and he is now averaging 5 points a game for WKU! I haven't seen a single poster admit they were wrong about this one.
I thought Allen would make more of an immediate impact at WKU. He still could, it's not over for him there yet.

There you go. Now that you've seen a single poster admit that you can move on.

I was much more disappointed in the Hopkins transfer, and I said so at the time. The guy is a tank.
 
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K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,420
25,759
113
Exactly right, especially in the modern game. Cal is just enamored with the tall, long athletic freak of an athlete. Whether or not the kid can even maintain position in the post or not, or whether they can dribble/pass or not. Yet, he talks about positionless basketball, with a bunch of athletes that are absolutely pigeonholed to one position on the floor, due to limitations.

This is mainly due to defensive potential. Meanwhile, he won’t even put pressure on anyone defensively to actually parlay that defense into offense. He would rather play M2M switching defense, while not playing passing lanes and either keep guys in front or funnel them to a shot blocker. His philosophy flat out blows.
This is a good point....his fascination with length/athleticism but wont' pressure the ball to save his life is backwards thinking
 
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*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
47,122
86,210
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Well, it would’ve helped if Cal would’ve allowed him to play his natural position here instead of trying to force him into the wrong spot.

How many 4s in the country are having a better season than Hopkins? Kid is averaging a near double double. Becoming a legit star.
We all saw it, it was plain as day. Play the kid, give him minutes Cal! Dear god please, but he hid him under the bench.
 

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
47,122
86,210
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But Kahlil Whitney didn’t transfer anywhere. He came here as a mega-hyped 5 star recruit, was an awful disappointment here …and then basically just disappeared. I don’t see how he’s relevant to that guy’s point.
Whitney was too good for college he went pro baby!
 
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*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
47,122
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And Cal once again chose to listen to the WRONG player’s people. He should have told the Sharpe crew to hit the road and done WAAAAAAYYYY MORE to keep Bryce Hopkins!!

This is one of now many times that Cal has BOWED DOWN to the wrong kid! Watching Hopkins play this year just PROVES Cal has lost it!! That kid is going to end up being a 1st team All-American!!!
Hopkins had one too few stars next to his name and not a high enough number to be listened too.
 
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*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
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Guy was terrible in college and thought his solution would be to immediately go try to play against the best players in the world. Who in the world is advising some of these guys ...
I know right, he went out and got the suit and everything for the draft. Like nobody wants you kid. You got exposed badly. I’m shocked how guys like him and Askew get ranked so high.
 

saxonburgcat

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
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I thought Allen would make more of an immediate impact at WKU. He still could, it's not over for him there yet.

There you go. Now that you've seen a single poster admit that you can move on.

I was much more disappointed in the Hopkins transfer, and I said so at the time. The guy is a tank.

Ha! Ha! I can move on....Seriously, this issue was brought up by Cal's critics over and over and over. Now, we get threads on Hopkins. At least in this case, the kid is performing very well. But, let's move on from any discussion that bashed Cal for not playing a player who ends up transferring and doing very little. LOL

But, i do commend you for admitting you were wrong about him, at least so far. I still hope he has a decent career at WKU. I am also happy for Hopkins.
 

fatguy87

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Oct 8, 2004
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What about Allen? Cal was bashed over and over for not playing him more and he is now averaging 5 points a game for WKU! I haven't seen a single poster admit they were wrong about this one.
It puts into perspective how bad Devin Askew was.
 

saxonburgcat

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Aug 22, 2012
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It puts into perspective how bad Devin Askew was.

I honestly had to look up Askew just to remember which team he was on. When I saw the year he played at UK, I was shocked it was that recent. It seems like a long time ago. I think I just want to forget that entire season.
 
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megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
16,339
16,907
113
I was listening to the Sunday call in show on Wlap a while back and they were talking about Hopkins. They said he'd made up his mind to transfer Dec. of last year. Cal played him and Allen quite a bit early on. Neither earned a spot and we don't see what happens in practice. I do question why he didn't play him more later in the season after he had that big game. Especially with the injuries. There's probably more to the story than meets the eye.
I heard the same thing.
 
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Soupbean

All-American
Jan 19, 2007
5,945
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Hopkins scored 27 points and got 5 rebounds vs the 4th ranked team in the nation, but he wasn’t good enough for Cal.
It is baffling. And some will say well he didnt look that great in the times he got in . . . and why is that? Why does a guy come hear and seem to lose all confidence then leave and get it back instantly? Cal would say its just the KY effect but . . .
 

Soupbean

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Jan 19, 2007
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Was never left in the game long enough to play comfortably. Very short leash with CCC which is typical. Cal plays his favorites and runs others off. Was very sad to see Bryce go.
This is a big part of it I think. Guys do come to KY with a little bit of wow this is big time and may take a little whileto adust, but Cal's style of substituting on every negative play hinders those guys finding their rhythm a lot of times. You never know what you've got in a talent until that talent gets to play free and loose and thats hard to do with Cal sometimes.
 

WestWorld

Heisman
Apr 1, 2008
23,781
31,339
107
I’d be willing to bet Cal was one of the first people to contact him and congratulate him on a great night…
 

megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
16,339
16,907
113
It is baffling. And some will say well he didnt look that great in the times he got in . . . and why is that? Why does a guy come hear and seem to lose all confidence then leave and get it back instantly? Cal would say its just the KY effect but . . .
Keep in mind that Toppin was #8 man for Rhode Island before coming here. It works both ways. Players seek best fit situations.
 
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G-PIP

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Mar 14, 2014
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Hopkins is listed at 220lbs at Providence. I think he may have been listed at that weight last year also, but he looks lighter and in better condition to me than he did last year. Anyone know if this might be the case, or is it just misperception on my part from seeing him moving around so well.
 
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