Toggle sidebar

Hiring a Defensive Coordinator

N

nets on nets on nets

All-American
Jun 4, 2015
4,162
5,515
0
dukehokie said:
Is it though? Justise Winslow fully admitted to “playing for the draft” before he turned things around. And before anyone says he had a rib injury, you could clearly see him pulling punches before it. Other guys wouldn’t admit it, but they do too.

Bagley isn’t the issue here. But what about Tre, Gary and Grayson. They’re protecting themselves physically on defense. Not to mention, post players have it easier on defense typically than guards do. You exude more energy on the perimeter. And usually when you play that hard, your offense suffers. And if a guard looks bad on O, he looks bad on draft boards. So maybe it isn’t total draft protection, but they’re saving themselves for the other end at the very least.

I’m not saying these guys aren’t invested in Duke basketball, but I am saying there is a distraction, it’s pretty clear.

I will say, the one thing this team doesn’t have is a Matt Jones/Chris Duhon/Sean Dockery. That guy who can capably guard the other team’s most effective offensive weapon and not care one iota his offense in the other side. I wish Gary would take that mantle, because he is our most capable perimeter defender at this point.
Click to expand...
Fair points. While I still disagree that these guys are focused on their draft position, I can agree with the fact that some guys do seem concerned about protecting their bodies. Not counting the meaningless blowout games, I think we have taken 1 charge all season, the FSU game, Carter I believe it was. Yeah, that's a problem.

My theory...since last season, K and the staff have put a HUGE emphasis on keeping guys healthy. Ever noticed how every single player now wears a full on leg sleeve on both legs? We basically have our guys wrapped up in protective bubble-wrap. Again, just a theory, our practice habits have changed, I'm guessing our drills in practice don't have a lot of contact. I'm guessing we aren't rolling balls out to the middle of the floor and having 2 guys dive and fight/scrap for the ball, drills like that......Javin is supposed to be our Jones/Duhon/Dockery, Javin is supposed to be our energizer bunny and our "scrapper," but Javin's offense is putrid.

I'm as mad as anyone about the loss last night, but would we be even more mad if we won and one of our starters got injured? It's tough, but ultimately our #1 mission should be to be healthy in March, regardless of our seed.
 
Last edited:
D

Duke Bluu

All-Conference
Nov 7, 2017
3,596
2,471
113
Stevens is my top choice as well but that’s become a pipe dream at this point. Guys like him don’t grow on trees. Thank God I’m a Boston fan so I get to enjoy him. If I’m Capel, I take my arse up to Boston to learn every chance I get. I think the best thing you can learn from K is how to be CEO of a program. In terms of defensive techniques and concepts, and how to teach it, I have to imagine K isn’t keeping up with the ways on the court. I don’t have the answers and neither do most here but there are coaches like Stevens who DO HAVE the answers.
 
S

Showenuff

Heisman
Nov 21, 2006
21,624
14,224
0
Wow. Not being facetious, I never thought i'd see long time posters literally asking for K to be gone. It's amazing. We JUST won a National Championship in 2015. Now K is washed up? I'm not saying you can't have that opinion, that's fine. I'm just amazed that you have it. He's definitely not perfect, but 5 championships? And we give up on a team in early January? I hate the reactions of this board after a loss. Mainly because, at the beginning of almost EVERY season, we openly admit this team is new, it will have a few embarrassing losses and a tough learning curve. Then we lose a couple and it's over. The sky is falling. K sucks. He's washed up. Who's next? This is sports man, you gotta take the good with the bad if you're a real fan, we can't win'em all. I still believe in K. And I think unlike 95% of you, he's gonna get #6 before he's gone. But if he doesn't, what does he owe us? Not a GD thing. I have had the most amazing time of my life pulling for this team since the early 80's. I'm not gonna sit here and grind the fella that gave me all of that to dust. We can right this ship this season, it's happened before fellas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SwatX1, BlackKnightNut, dukiejay and 8 others
O

OldasdirtDevil

Heisman
Nov 16, 2009
19,469
15,753
0
Showenuff said:
Wow. Not being facetious, I never thought i'd see long time posters literally asking for K to be gone. It's amazing. We JUST won a National Championship in 2015. Now K is washed up? I'm not saying you can't have that opinion, that's fine. I'm just amazed that you have it. He's definitely not perfect, but 5 championships? And we give up on a team in early January? I hate the reactions of this board after a loss. Mainly because, at the beginning of almost EVERY season, we openly admit this team is new, it will have a few embarrassing losses and a tough learning curve. Then we lose a couple and it's over. The sky is falling. K sucks. He's washed up. Who's next? This is sports man, you gotta take the good with the bad if you're a real fan, we can't win'em all. I still believe in K. And I think unlike 95% of you, he's gonna get #6 before he's gone. But if he doesn't, what does he owe us? Not a GD thing. I have had the most amazing time of my life pulling for this team since the early 80's. I'm not gonna sit here and grind the fella that gave me all of that to dust. We can right this ship this season, it's happened before fellas.
Click to expand...

I don't understand it at all, Show. Sure, fans are frustrated, but throwing the baby out with the bath water? Crazy! There are going to be a lot of fans that will want to drag K's *** out of retirement after they get their wish and he finally steps down. Be careful what you ask for. And like Arnold, Duke will be back this season.
Oh, and you can be my wingman anytime, Show!

OFC
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skeelow22, SwatX1, Dukeman and 3 others
pisgah101

pisgah101

Heisman
Dec 26, 2005
15,624
13,488
113
Okay okay now chill some of all like @Showenuff has clearly missed what I said. If you could trade K for Stevens right now why wouldn't you take it? K will be here what 5 years max? Stevens has what 20-30 maybe? Yes I'll take a great coach for that long over a great coach for 5 years. Now if we had both for the same length then no I'd keep K
 
  • Like
Reactions: hart2chesson
O

OldasdirtDevil

Heisman
Nov 16, 2009
19,469
15,753
0
pisgah101 said:
Okay okay now chill some of all like @Showenuff has clearly missed what I said. If you could trade K for Stevens right now why wouldn't you take it? K will be here what 5 years max? Stevens has what 20-30 maybe? Yes I'll take a great coach for that long over a great coach for 5 years
Click to expand...

I can understand the cold hard facts of that statement, Pisgah, but doesn't a legend like K deserve a little loyalty?

OFC
 
  • Like
Reactions: skysdad, dukesince91 and Showenuff
D

dukehokie

All-American
Jun 27, 2005
19,624
6,220
113
jwill133 said:
Fair points. While I still disagree that these guys are focused on their draft position, I can agree with the fact that some guys do seem concerned about protecting their bodies. Not counting the meaningless blowout games, I think we have taken 1 charge all season, the FSU game, Carter I believe it was. Yeah, that's a problem.

My theory...since last season, K and the staff have put a HUGE emphasis on keeping guys healthy. Ever noticed how every single player now wears a full on leg sleeve on both legs? We basically have our guys wrapped up in protective bubble-wrap. Again, just a theory, our practice habits have changed, I'm guessing our drills in practice don't have a lot of contact. I'm guessing we aren't rolling balls out to the middle of the floor and having 2 guys dive and fight/scrap for the ball, drills like that......Javin is supposed to be our Jones/Duhon/Dockery, Javin is supposed to be our energizer bunny and our "scrapper," but Javin's offense is putrid.

I'm as mad as anyone about the loss last night, but would we be even more mad if we won and one of our starters got injured? It's tough, but ultimately our #1 mission should be to be healthy in March, regardless of our seed.
Click to expand...

I’m with you. I agree about Javin, but at 6’10, he’s not going to guard perimeter players well. He can affect shots, but drives, he has been ineffective. And like you said, offensively, he’s just not good.

But you bring up the age old question. What’s more important, health or cohesiveness? And if health is so important, why can’t the bench get just a sliver of time? But you’re right. They only have 15-18 full contact practices each season. It’s seriously like 1 per week (some of that is NCAA rule). And you’re right, body protection is so important. These kids are more savvy about their futures and with them not getting paid, a lot of these guys just don’t play as hard as they can. Not saying our guys are doing that, but that’s an NCAA-wide occurrence.

Either way your question is an important one. And this team has time to answer it. Can they stay healthy AND can they be a good solid unit? They have 2 months to figure it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nets on nets on nets and Showenuff
S

skysdad

Heisman
Mar 3, 2006
42,753
22,653
0
We probably have the best defensive coach ever leading this team. Even he can't make it work unless the players want to become good defensive players. OFC
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldasdirtDevil
pisgah101

pisgah101

Heisman
Dec 26, 2005
15,624
13,488
113
OldasdirtDevil said:
Thanks for your answer, I received it loud and clear.

OFC
Click to expand...

Ok? Don't act like I said some philosophical thing that denounces my fanhood, my "answer" was exactly what I said. We'd win a heck of a lot more games with Stevens for 20 years then K for 5. Our opinions don't matter though right? that's at least what some on here say so loyalty on a message board is a made up mess. I want to win all games and the best way to do so for a long time if it was offered would be exactly what I said. If K had 30 more years I'd want him though. Don't act upset over it. I could just as easily say if you wouldn't take it you aren't loyal to Duke basketball
 
D

diehardDUKIEnKY

Sophomore
Aug 26, 2008
408
187
0
My loyalty to K runs deep, i literally cried when he flirted with the Lakers, I’d take him over ANY other coach in any sport, period. You don’t throw the captain overboard just because a ship has sprung a leak, you take the advice of your captain and have your deck hands plug that leak to ride out the storm. Sometimes those deck hands may only be able to plug the leak for so long. K can only work with what he has (on PAPER we have a buttload of talent), and if these deck hands can’t keep the leak plugged long enough to deliver number 6 well then I trust that K did whatever he could with what he had and I trust him to guide our ship back into port to let some deck hands off and allow some new ones on. Then it’s back out to the rough seas of college basketball with the only coach I’d ever want as our captain guiding us for as long as he is able.
 
O

OldasdirtDevil

Heisman
Nov 16, 2009
19,469
15,753
0
pisgah101 said:
Ok? Don't act like I said some philosophical thing that denounces my fanhood, my "answer" was exactly what I said. We'd win a heck of a lot more games with Stevens for 20 years then K for 5. Our opinions don't matter though right? that's at least what some on here say so loyalty on a message board is a made up mess. I want to win all games and the best way to do so for a long time if it was offered would be exactly what I said. If K had 30 more years I'd want him though. Don't act upset over it. I could just as easily say if you wouldn't take it you aren't loyal to Duke basketball
Click to expand...

I'm not the one that is upset, Pisgha, and you're welcome to your opinion. I understood and acknowledged that having Stevens for 20 or 30 years compared to having K for 5 years may be the smart move, but I asked if loyalty to a man that has brought Duke to the pinnacle of college basketball wasn't deserving of consideration. You then answered in a condescending way, and I answered back in the fashion I received.


OFC
 
  • Like
Reactions: skysdad and diehardDUKIEnKY
pisgah101

pisgah101

Heisman
Dec 26, 2005
15,624
13,488
113
OldasdirtDevil said:
I'm not the one that is upset, Pisgha, and you're welcome to your opinion. I understood and acknowledged that having Stevens for 20 or 30 years compared to having K for 5 years may be the smart move, but I asked if loyalty to a man that has brought Duke to the pinnacle of college basketball wasn't deserving of consideration. You then answered in a condescending way, and I answered back in the fashion I received.


OFC
Click to expand...

My fault I didn't mean to be condescending I just meant long term that would be the smart move. I don't want K to go anywhere and in the real world absolutely he deserves loyalty. I was looking at it too hypocritical not realistic my apologies
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldasdirtDevil
O

OldasdirtDevil

Heisman
Nov 16, 2009
19,469
15,753
0
pisgah101 said:
My fault I didn't mean to be condescending I just meant long term that would be the smart move. I don't want K to go anywhere and in the real world absolutely he deserves loyalty. I was looking at it too hypocritical not realistic my apologies
Click to expand...

No problem, Pisgah. I know you're a loyal Duke fan (and K fan). We're all a little on the edge, including me.

OFC
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: skysdad and pisgah101
D

Dukeman

Senior
Dec 21, 2001
872
934
0
pisgah101 said:
Ok? Don't act like I said some philosophical thing that denounces my fanhood, my "answer" was exactly what I said. We'd win a heck of a lot more games with Stevens for 20 years then K for 5. Our opinions don't matter though right? that's at least what some on here say so loyalty on a message board is a made up mess. I want to win all games and the best way to do so for a long time if it was offered would be exactly what I said. If K had 30 more years I'd want him though. Don't act upset over it. I could just as easily say if you wouldn't take it you aren't loyal to Duke basketball
Click to expand...


Wow as long as you are hallucinating maybe you can suggest that God take over the team. That would be a bigger upgrade than Brad Stevens.

Where is all this "I want Brad Stevens and I want him now"'crap come from. When K steps down is it etched in stone he will come?

If guys like you would have had your way after K's 2nd year at Duke he would have been fired and Duke's basketball history would probably have been less than stellar since then.

Man I hate a "what have you done lately for me fan" about as much as I do that cheating crowd 8 miles down the road. We know how they were able to achieve success and K would never stoop to that level.

The season still has a lot of games left. Last night was a bad loss. Still it was only one loss. Past teams have had bad losses and still won championships. I'm excited for the next game.
 
H

hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
skysdad said:
We probably have the best defensive coach ever leading this team. Even he can't make it work unless the players want to become good defensive players. OFC
Click to expand...

I think we have ONE of the best defensive coaches ever in an era, but no longer. I dont see the EMPHASIS on D that was a trademark of past Duke teams. I am not in a position to know if that's all on the players or a change in philosophy somewhat w/today's TYPICAL OAD player.

In other words, is there really only time to take a fairly new group of individuals every year and make them as cohesive as possible offensively? Or is the mindset of the OAD just so focused on his offensive game, it doesnt matter what K does about D: they really just don't buy in???? OFC
 
Last edited:
B

bullcity gamer

All-Conference
Oct 14, 2017
2,744
4,902
0
Food for thought: Duke’s last two national championships had strong rotations of 8 players. I hope Coach K learns to trust O’Connell, Javin, and Bolden/Goldwire like he trusted MP1, MP2, Dawkins in 2010 and MP3, Jefferson, and Allen in 2015. Imo, this team’s defense is worse by a wide margin compared to last season’s team and it was very bad last year (I know we had Jefferson and Jones last year).
 
  • Like
Reactions: hart2chesson
M

Mpm277

All-Conference
Nov 23, 2010
7,445
2,669
0
Some of these posts are embarrassing. It's so strange that some of ya'll want K replaced when you're only fans of the program based on the merits of what he did there in the first place.

I feel like I'm on Rupp Rafters.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OldasdirtDevil, dukiejay, HuffyJB and 3 others
K

K-oach Q

All-Conference
Nov 18, 2009
5,517
1,831
0
skysdad said:
We probably have the best defensive coach ever leading this team. Even he can't make it work unless the players want to become good defensive players. OFC
Click to expand...

You have to go way way back to find any significant defensive measure that would suggest Coach K is anywhere close to being one of the best defensive coaches ever....maybe he was at one time....but the game has evolved significantly in terms of the way it’s played on the court and the addition of OAD talent....his system...clearly has not held up to that evolution over time....pretty much ever statistical measure shows that for over a decade plus....but you don’t even need it....it can clearly be seen with the eyeball test....

On a personal note...my boss was inducted into the international coaching hall of fame this summer in August....I was honored to be asked to make his introduction...a great great man that has achieved a lot and done so so much for kids and people...I hold him in the highest of regard and owe him everything professionally....he is 70 years old now....I have been with him for fourteen years...he gets so much credit for all the things he has done....is respected by everyone I can imagine....and I can say honestly on a message board that he doesn’t coach 1/100th as good as he did when I started with him fourteen years ago...and that’s not to say he doesn’t coach well now because I think he does....but it’s very different.....and he is very set in his ways with things...and has a very hard time thinking differently than he did even twenty years ago....and making any sort of changes in thinking with today’s techniques...coaching...advancements in technology...etc....I very much imagine it’s the same with Coach K....there are a lot of things that I think could be better done today... it his way is his way....not to say it’s bad, because it’s not.....but I also don’t think it’s near as good as it could be...comparatively to what or how it was....
 
  • Like
Reactions: hart2chesson
S

Showenuff

Heisman
Nov 21, 2006
21,624
14,224
0
Didn't we lose our first 2 or 3 ACC games last year then win the ACC Championship?
 
N

nets on nets on nets

All-American
Jun 4, 2015
4,162
5,515
0
Showenuff said:
Didn't we lose our first 2 or 3 ACC games last year then win the ACC Championship?
Click to expand...
We havent won the regular season ACC title since 2010, right? But yes, we won the tournament title.
I for one, think the regular season should mean more, but were Duke, it's not like we need that tourney win for the automatic bid.
 
K

K-oach Q

All-Conference
Nov 18, 2009
5,517
1,831
0
Dattier said:
2015: Kenpom adjusted D 11th
2011: Kenpom adjusted D 9th
2010: Kenpom adjusted D 5th
Click to expand...

2010 didn’t have OAD talent and K totally changed his philosophy on playing a more packed in system ala UVA....not the system he’s imploring all the other years...can’t understand why he’s never taught this way since....

2011 we got bounced by Arizona with our amazing second half defensive outing of 55pts given up...that’s truly terrible but in line with almost all our other bounces from the tourney....

2015 Stats where totally offset by strong finish...poor almost the entire year...I can accept that however...all games count into a season....but that year with OAD is clearly an anomaly...based on all our other years of very poorly played defensive systems...the tourney second half pts given up...most to nobody’s is the real indicator and of ones ability to adjust and truly be a great defensive coach...no adjustments made...lots of evidence to support that...just look at the scores...
 
  • Like
Reactions: hart2chesson
K

K-oach Q

All-Conference
Nov 18, 2009
5,517
1,831
0
I would add I’m not real big on Kenpom...

This year is a great example...we are number one offensively as of now...we are hardly an offensive juggernaut...our offense is quite poor actually...but our ability to get so many offensive rebounds and put backs by Bagley and Carter has truly masked how poorly we are running offense...mostly due to no shooters except Allen....and it’s easy to shut down one shooter...much harder when there are 2-3 on the floor at a time...

It’s why Allen has struggled a bit...teams can lock him down...don’t have to worry about Anyone else...Allen would have a ton more freedom...our bigs too if say Kennard was still on the other side...but alas...we have what we have...so Allen is a focal point for every team defensively....

Not a coincidence we have lost the two games we haven’t rebounded the ball well offensively...it’s pretty much our offensive system outside of giving it to Bagley....rebound well and this Duke team has significant problems generating scoreing opportunities...and we certainly can’t stop anybody....so we better score every time we have the ball...
 
D

Dattier

All-American
Sep 1, 2003
9,374
5,634
0
K-oach Q said:
2010 didn’t have OAD talent and K totally changed his philosophy on playing a more packed in system ala UVA....not the system he’s imploring all the other years...can’t understand why he’s never taught this way since....

2011 we got bounced by Arizona with our amazing second half defensive outing of 55pts given up...that’s truly terrible but in line with almost all our other bounces from the tourney....

2015 Stats where totally offset by strong finish...poor almost the entire year...I can accept that however...all games count into a season....but that year with OAD is clearly an anomaly...based on all our other years of very poorly played defensive systems...the tourney second half pts given up...most to nobody’s is the real indicator and of ones ability to adjust and truly be a great defensive coach...no adjustments made...lots of evidence to support that...just look at the scores...
Click to expand...
Your original statement was that you had to go way way back to find any significant defensive measure that would suggest Coach K is anywhere close to being one of the best defensive coaches ever.
 
K

K-oach Q

All-Conference
Nov 18, 2009
5,517
1,831
0
Dattier said:
It's undoubtedly one measure. You said there wasn't any such measure.
Click to expand...

I can accept that...but was also layered with reasons why...

When I think of a great defensive coach...and look at our tourney scores...I hardly consider K a defensive guru...but that’s my take...
 
H

hart2chesson

Heisman
Oct 13, 2012
14,303
16,574
0
K-oach Q said:
I can accept that...but was also layered with reasons why...

When I think of a great defensive coach...and look at our tourney scores...I hardly consider K a defensive guru...but that’s my take...
Click to expand...

How about Tony Bennett? Its something State nearly doubled the output UNC had against the Cavs yesterday. Not a good reflection on us....OFC
 
K

K-oach Q

All-Conference
Nov 18, 2009
5,517
1,831
0
hart2chesson said:
How about Tony Bennett? Its something State nearly doubled the output UNC had against the Cavs yesterday. Not a good reflection on us....OFC
Click to expand...
He’s a great defensive coach....probably the best in college basketball...

The problem with his teams are they are totally enept offensively....at some point in the tourney you have to be able to score....you are not going to hold everyone under 50-60pts for six games...
 
  • Like
Reactions: hart2chesson
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom