Gleeson is a good OC. You guys are insufferable.
Gleeson
- Thread starter RUchip
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Then go find Paul Johnson and watch him every week! Nobody needs your constant winny *** complaining every thread. You were a pain in the *** on the other board and since coming here have not changed.
Anyone who doesn't think offensive lineman don't make a difference shouldn't even be allowed to post. I don't know where you went to school but I sure as hell know it wasn't RU. We don't take people that dumb. Go root for your team and let the real RU fans alone.
True.
Definately bring back OC Kill and OC McNulty.
I mean why are we messing with a Spread then the good ole' offenses of the past have worked so well here.
But sure, tell us again how 1 season is enough time to implement a totally new offensive system and evaluate.
Bigger question is - what happened to all the instant upgrades in talent Schiano was supposed to bring according to everyone around here?
Some of you are nuts. We got lucky last year with very minimal injuries to the OL. So we overachieved. Have you not heard our coach speak about the lack of depth there since pre season? Look at where we are focusing recruiting efforts.
The OL is a train wreck without Sutton and O’Neal. The guys we have to fill in for them are either too green and make critical mistakes that cost us globs of penalty yards, or they are just plain not good enough to match up. We got by against Michigan when it was just Sutton out. You can’t blame Gleeson for not being able to scheme around missing O’Neal too. Trick plays don’t work in years with real pre-seasons.
The OL is a train wreck without Sutton and O’Neal. The guys we have to fill in for them are either too green and make critical mistakes that cost us globs of penalty yards, or they are just plain not good enough to match up. We got by against Michigan when it was just Sutton out. You can’t blame Gleeson for not being able to scheme around missing O’Neal too. Trick plays don’t work in years with real pre-seasons.
Last time I checked, the WR ran the route not the OC . The WR was probably supposed to run 5 yards and out, not 3 and out. Offensive coordinator can only call the play, the players have to execute it properly.
Last time I checked, the wr is coached to do this. Given the preponderance of occurrences this year, coaching appears to be the issue
IDGAF if he was supposed to run a 20 yard pattern; he ran 2 yards. If it happens once, that's on the player. If it happens over and over for multiple games, that's the coach's fault.
When you coach freshman high school football, you teach receivers to run their patterns past the 1st down marker on 3rd (and 4th) down. Everyone knows this. If freshman high school kids do it wrong more than once, you play someone else until they figure it out.
This is major college football (supposedly); having it happen more than once is inexcusable. It demonstrates the coach doesn't know what he's doing. At this point, Schiano needs to take blame for not stepping in and correcting it.
Not true. The D is taught to play the marker. The thought or probability is that it’s harder or lower percentage to complete a pass past the marker than underneath and higher probability to gain the yards needed after the catch.
I know the philosophy behind it. What I'm saying is (a) it doesn't work, (b) it hasn't worked, and (c) we keep doing it after we have demonstrated it doesn't work. That's why even high school coaches know not to do it ... it doesn't work.
Greg told me he's adding you to the staff tomorrow
Terrific. We still won't score any points (because there's no talent), but we might actually convert a 3rd down play.
EDIT: Just kidding. If I was the OC, there wouldn't be any 3rd down pass plays because I'd be running the wishbone with this personnel.
Because we don't have a QB that can throw the ball.
Fullback? *shrugs shoulders* Vedral?
The spread will work. Most of these players were recruited into a prostyle offense. We are bringing in athletes that fit the spread and bigger better OL. It cannot be understated how hard it is to play with 2 converted DL, a freshman and walkon on the OL.
No need to hit the panic button. It certainly is frustrating but we have very good WR’s, RBs, and OL coming in. Wimsatt with a year in the program is a huge deal.
We are right where many prior to the season expected the team to be!
No need to hit the panic button. It certainly is frustrating but we have very good WR’s, RBs, and OL coming in. Wimsatt with a year in the program is a huge deal.
We are right where many prior to the season expected the team to be!
You know after Illinois I was actually pretty impressed with his play calling. Now this. We're nowhere near competitive with the decent teams. We can beat the cellar dwellers. Well it's only year two of the rebuild. Losing to NW really pissed me off. Wisconsin? Meh. We're nowhere near their level yet. Now if we crap the bed against Indiana and Maryland I'm going to be calling for his head. If Penn State hangs 40 on us? Not unexpected.
Funny thing is I mentioned the Flexbone offense before. He actually has a lot of the same option concepts as the Flexbone. If we can get some kind of passing attack going this could be a great offense. It's just that we have had to watch this crap for so long now.
Funny thing is I mentioned the Flexbone offense before. He actually has a lot of the same option concepts as the Flexbone. If we can get some kind of passing attack going this could be a great offense. It's just that we have had to watch this crap for so long now.
Most of you have the false notion that our pass routes short of the sticks are evidence of failed coaching and execution. No this is flawless execution of 2.0s strategy to punt and pin opponents deep, where hopefully we can get turnovers and a much shorter field to navigate.
He knows we can’t sustain drives so why try ? Why risk sacks, penalties and turnovers by trying to advance the ball when we aren’t good enough to ?
He’s always preferred the defense be on the field.
He knows we can’t sustain drives so why try ? Why risk sacks, penalties and turnovers by trying to advance the ball when we aren’t good enough to ?
He’s always preferred the defense be on the field.
tell us why you think so because I can give seemingly endless examples of how he has sucked and it's not just multiple receivers in the same space, empty pitch sets, players not knowing to go beyond the first down marker on 3rd down plays, mind boggling play selections or personnel options for varying sets so shoot ..... please
But was the OC also the HC and Gleeson just a puppet?
Remember, we just went thru a HC that was "good DC from National Champion Ohio State.. recommended by a legend from Wisconsin... when now it certainly looks like Cinci HC Luke Fickel was really the DC at OSU.
You don't get it... the problem is the lack of a passing threat. OL is just a part of that.. but defenses can run-blitz every down (that will turn into a pass blitz) because our play calls and execution does not punish them for blitzing.
I think it begins with Vedrals weaknesses. I think he MIS-reads defenses pre-snap if he does it at all.. and post-snap.. he just executes one of the options he has already chosen.. he doesn't actually see if the DE is crashing before handing inside or running outside or vice-versa... and his bubble screens... s l o w.. its a miracle the WRs gain any yards on them.
Lastly.. consider the screen pass... the one play where the OL is supposed to let their guys penetrate and a pass short enough for any QB to complete. A play that punishes blitzes.. where is it? Where is anything similar to it?
Something is messed up badly.. and you can think it is the OL... maybe perfect protection for 6 seconds will give the WRs time for separation or time for Vedral to see em.. but even then he'd likely throw late and short...
if you have a bad OL or are facing an elite pass rush you game plan for that and put a stopwatch on the QB and tell him he has 3 seconds to get the ball away. Every pass play would be a throw in 3 seconds.. either to a target.. to an open space where a target is supposed to reach in 4 seconds.. and that can be 30 yards downfield or so.. or the throw is to the bench.. a throw-away.
you say we have a bad OL that cannot protect the QB.. if that's the case why haven't we seen those 3-second plays other than the bubble screens?
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1. He was a OC for one of the most innovative offensive minds in CFB (Mike Gundy)
2. His team averaged nearly 30ppg last season with a fully healthy OL (we have only started the same OL in 2 games this year)
3. He wouldn't be paid what he is paid if he wasn't good.
4. Greg Schiano has earned our trust and support after being begged back here so we need to give him time.
5. Go look at scores from Steve Pikiell second year at Rutgers and then come back to me. There were 30-40pt beatings in league play. Loss to Hartford and Stony Brook.
Patience my friends. Rome wasn't built in a day. Wisconsin may have the best defense in the country. New week this week and another opportunity to go 1-0.
couldn't the same have been said of Drew Mehringer? He wasn't the OC at Houston but in both cases the head coaches were the offensive Gurus at the former place of employment.
I was very happy we hired Gleeson. Now it is his turn to validate that feeling. And I think he might do that.. once we field a QB that can run his offense and make on-field decisions that he wants him to make. I think we need a couple skill players to go along with that.. slippery RBs that can pass block and WRs that can block in space AND are fast as hell and can win one on ones regularly. Honestly.. OL is important.. but if you cannot force the D to respect the skill players. they have a much harder time protecting and opening holes.
who coaches the WRs? Who oversees the offensive position coaches? Who decides who plays? Who recruits the players?
With many of you guys the buck stops at the OL... or Schiano. Nothing in-between.
People may not like the offense but those short passes actually are the design of the offense. Forget just college — it’s now common in the NFL. The idea is to get the ball out fast and put your playmaker on the move against at most one defender. Catch it, turn up field, and potentially make one move if necessary to pick up the first down. It’s is possible the WR depth is wrong or it may be that the defenders are squatting near the first down mark, and the concept calls for the WR to cross the defender’s face rather than working behind him (which would allow the defender to undercut the route and intercept it).
All of that said since it’s not working for us I agree there is fair criticism as to why we keep running it.
All of that said since it’s not working for us I agree there is fair criticism as to why we keep running it.
I liked the hire but everyone looks like an offense genius in the Big12. No defense makes things pretty easy.
Can't say about 2 years ago but B12 isn't only offense these days. Ok. State/ISU Ds are up there this year. I want to say top 10ish. Baylor, KSU, WVU might be middle of the packish.
Took a quick look and Ok State/ISU are 3 and 4 for in total and in the top 15 scoring D. The others mentioned about middle pack or better in those categories.
Please show your work. 3rd down conversion rates with passes over the LOS vs under. It’s human psychology. When a third down pass goes incomplete, people will chalk it up to good coverage or pass rush getting home. people are willing to accept that failure over a short completion and not making the required yardage. I don’t have all the stats but the guys who call the plays do and that’s why they call it. The probability is just higher on those conversions. It is very common to call on 3rd and 6+. Obviously, not advisable on 3rd and less than 3.
I don't like the 2.0 hire because almost anyone else is just as likely to reach Schiano's .500 conference ceiling for half the price and fewer years. We're not ND or Texas. We can't go all in because we'd risk being stuck with him or any other possible bust for almost a decade.
But this in-game offensive fiasco isn't on him or Gleeson except as it relates to recruiting, and in particular recruiting a serviceable QB.
As critical as I am, it's ridiculous to criticize Gleeson for playcalling. There's nothing he can do to overcome an overmatched, outclassed QB.
He can only scheme and call according to the talent he has to work with, and that includes poor pass protection, slow, small receivers, and a QB who wouldn't ever see the field in any other FBS program (which is why he transferred twice).
The other teams in our league have better players, simple as that. Are the coaches to blame for that ? Yes, so far. We'll see if the roster talent rises (not commits but kids who actually come here.) But since there's little talent to begin with you can't blame them for the playcalling too.
Correction.....I checked and he did get backup minutes at UCF and Nebraska....
But this in-game offensive fiasco isn't on him or Gleeson except as it relates to recruiting, and in particular recruiting a serviceable QB.
As critical as I am, it's ridiculous to criticize Gleeson for playcalling. There's nothing he can do to overcome an overmatched, outclassed QB.
He can only scheme and call according to the talent he has to work with, and that includes poor pass protection, slow, small receivers, and a QB who wouldn't ever see the field in any other FBS program (which is why he transferred twice).
The other teams in our league have better players, simple as that. Are the coaches to blame for that ? Yes, so far. We'll see if the roster talent rises (not commits but kids who actually come here.) But since there's little talent to begin with you can't blame them for the playcalling too.
Correction.....I checked and he did get backup minutes at UCF and Nebraska....
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He could have kept and played Sitkowski who at least has an arm. But he wants a running QB so he stuck with Vedral. He could have played Snyder or Simon and invested in them. I'd imagine Langan is at TE because he, too, lacks the arm in some way. He could have invested in improving someone other than Vedral who just doesn't have the arm he needs. While what we have seen from the others does not inspire confidence, we have no idea what could have been done had someone else been invested in BECAUSE we saw how the lack of an arm affects the offense.
It could be a case of bad or worse or worse or bad... but, as fans, we have not seen the other options.. other than maybe to have seen what Sitkowski did when he got a chance last year.
Likewise, assuming Wimsatt is exactly the kind of QB Gleeson needs, we have not seen what Gleeson's investment in his system.. in everyone EXCEPT for the QB.. would yield if he did have a QB that could run it.
That angle could be very similar to what GS 1.0 did with the defense when he arrived.. he had them in training for years and did not seem to care about the outcome at all... but eventually.. with his recruits and years of training.. his system worked. Same might be true for Gleeson.