GAME 5 Lafayette: Swift Acceptance
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
Just because that player is faster or a better handler than Mag, Mulcahy or McConnell on the perimeter.....you don't have to be a 4 or 5* player to dribble and create space.....every program in the country from Gonzaga to team 340 has 2 guards who can dribble, pass and shoot from 3......Joey Downes and Jake Dadika are better perimeter options at the top of the offense vs a zone, because they're actually guards, not forwards without guard skills or abilities to create their own shot,, masquerading as guards.
The lineup should be Baker. Jones. Hyatt, Harper and Cliff......the backup to play lead or other guard for Baker should be Miller.....only a fool would watch anything else and watch the 1st 5 games of the guards playing and believe another 25 games of playing the same kids in the same spots, out of position, will change that.....
I agree with you that the personnel is not being used properly. I just don't think putting Miller on the court helps all that much. But sure, at least put him out there and see what happens. As long as he's not Souf Mensah he literally cannot be worse than McConnell offensively. And if he is Souf Mensah it's probably good to establish that now.
With all respect why should a defense first program hand minutes to players who are awful defensively because of their recruiting rankings.
we have a coach who inherited an awful program and turned it around with defense. We are now asking him 5 games in to the season to change the identity of the program.
we have a coach who inherited an awful program and turned it around with defense. We are now asking him 5 games in to the season to change the identity of the program.
Because all of his current players were trash on both ends as freshmen and now we have an offensively talented guy not allowed to play through mistakes and one not allowed to play at all
Ive disagreed with Hawk alot lately but man his posts in this thread are a bucket of ice cold water on this program. Clarity on the charade we are seeing with the lineup
No one goes to practice. other than recruiting rankings what are we going on.
FHJ failed as coach not because of recruiting and not because of X and Os. He failed because he ran the program like NJH and most message board fans are asking.
FHJ failed as coach not because of recruiting and not because of X and Os. He failed because he ran the program like NJH and most message board fans are asking.
There appear to be diminishing returns on his all in on defense strategy.
I wanted Jacob Young to stay and Geo to go after last season.
We got that one wrong.
We got that one wrong.
Exactly! It’s been a running theme. Same with NJiT.
They got the horses, hopefully this shocks the system and they wake up. No energy out there. Expecting games to be handed over
Mulcahy was the player during time outs that was exhorting his teammates to play better.
Cliff and Paul should have Cs on their uniforms. They will (hopefully) next year. It is my theory why next year will be different
What does that have to do with actually playing basketball?? When Mulcahy gets the ball at the top of the arc, what does he do with the ball......he stares at the defense, he doesn't lead or direct the offense or players, he is not able to start towards the defense to drive and create an angle for a teammate.....then when he passes the ball, you are actually supposed to cut and another guard should replace that player to move the defense......
Standing there, catching a pass and then the other players don't move.....that has nothing to do with playing harder.....how about cutting and moving.....if you are charged with being a point guard and you are not actually able to be a PG, what are your teammates supposed to do???
This is the elephant in the room.....if you are a guard, either a point guard or combo guard, you have to be good in 2 out of 3 areas....
A guard has to be able to
A) dribble in half court offense
B) have some sort of quickness or size to use that impacts the defense by shooting over your opponent
C) if you are NOT a capable shooter, you can be a defense 1st, tough defender.....
We have Mulcahy, Caleb, Mag all playing at the top of the offense.....none of the 3 are able to generate their own shot off the dribble.....none are athletic enough to stop someone one on one on defense and none possess the shooting range to stretch the defense.
Thats 3 players playing in a role, that they're not capable of playing.
At least if you have Baker, if he actually tried to make an offensive move, you have to give him a backcourt mate who can either shoot, drive and create their own shot, over the top of a defense......the only proven player who can do that is Harper Jr.....
If you remove Harper Jr from the forward role, you'll wear him out on both ends and take away his more effective place, which is on the wings to then drive and score going towards the basket.
If you give Jaden Jones the ball, he has guard skills.....yes he is probably better off playing a wing in the corner to shoot 3s, but he has enough skills to shoot over a defense up top, instead of Caleb, Mag or Mulcahy.....so because you don't have Miller playing, you cannot properly slot Jones to just shoot 3s......you need to put Mulcahy back in that role, where he was last year and ask Jaden Jones to be Part Mathis/part Jacob Young....give him the freedom to create his own offense and live with the shot attempts and errors.
OR, you play Miller, because even if he is not a capable shooter yet, he at least for 18 minutes a game, can be Mike Williams.....let him pester an opponent....let him foul someone trying to deny someone the ball.....let him get the ball and play.
One of 2 things will happen if you play Miller.
A) He looks terrible and you let him make mistakes and learn and you find out if he is just not good enough....or he can be your 4th guard long term or maybe your 3rd guard long term.
B) he plays and has a role that he understands what he is there for.....maybe he is never a starter here, but if he works hard and is a defense 1st guard, at least I understand what he can do and you at least get defense from him, when he plays.
Right now, you are not getting good on the ball defense from Mulcahy and Caleb is not quick enough to defend actual guards for extended minutes....you have to be physically strong and quick enough to extend energy on defense AND be asked to have the legs or shooting stroke to knock down shots.
When you remove Jacob Young and Mathis from the equation, you got the athletic ability to at least defend or stay in front of players, even if they were not good on offense.
It is also very very tough to play full time half court basketball, if your guards cannot dribble, pass, defend or and able to shoot....right now, Mulcahy, Caleb and Mag are playing minutes in that spot....half court basketball requires creativity in short spaces and ability to generate your own shot over a defense or creative offense to get around someone to shoot and score. Mulcahy, Caleb and Mag are not capable of playing that role at this level on the perimeter.
We have
Forwards-8
Oskar Palmquist 6'8 220
Mawot Mag 6'7 216
Paul Mulcahy 6'6 213
Aundre Hyatt 6'6 227
Dean Reiber 6'10' 225
Caleb McConnell 6'6 200
Ron Harper 6'6 245
Jaden Jones 6'8 220
Each have some "Guard skills", but all have Guard flaws in their game to not be playing fulltime guard. That is on Pike for recruiting so many tweeners 2/3s and 3/4s and not enough actual guards. We have 2 guards, Geo 6'4 185, and one hasn't played this year, Jalen Miller 6'2 200. I thought we were better off than we are but 5 games in such an imbalance in our roster has blown up in our face. Pike has to just bite the bullet, Geo/Miller PG, pick his 2 best "guard skilled" forwards for the other guard spot even if its Ron, piece together a front court with the rest, and figure out the best system going forward.
Forwards-8
Oskar Palmquist 6'8 220
Mawot Mag 6'7 216
Paul Mulcahy 6'6 213
Aundre Hyatt 6'6 227
Dean Reiber 6'10' 225
Caleb McConnell 6'6 200
Ron Harper 6'6 245
Jaden Jones 6'8 220
Each have some "Guard skills", but all have Guard flaws in their game to not be playing fulltime guard. That is on Pike for recruiting so many tweeners 2/3s and 3/4s and not enough actual guards. We have 2 guards, Geo 6'4 185, and one hasn't played this year, Jalen Miller 6'2 200. I thought we were better off than we are but 5 games in such an imbalance in our roster has blown up in our face. Pike has to just bite the bullet, Geo/Miller PG, pick his 2 best "guard skilled" forwards for the other guard spot even if its Ron, piece together a front court with the rest, and figure out the best system going forward.
NJH,
The team has practices, many of them. This team desperately needs what we thought Jalen Miller could be. He isn't playing for a good reason. He has the opportunity to show what he can do in practice. Every day. Every single day! Why should a player get an opportunity to do something in a game if he can't even do it in practice.
He would be playing if he was the player you thought he was. Pikiell doesn't have the under on Rutgers wins. He doesnt have an incentive to lose games.
Do you go to practices? Do you see what happens in sprints? Do you see how dedicated the players are learning plays and concepts and open to teaching?
All you are going on is their recruited rankings and your perceived thought of what they are as players.
The team has practices, many of them. This team desperately needs what we thought Jalen Miller could be. He isn't playing for a good reason. He has the opportunity to show what he can do in practice. Every day. Every single day! Why should a player get an opportunity to do something in a game if he can't even do it in practice.
He would be playing if he was the player you thought he was. Pikiell doesn't have the under on Rutgers wins. He doesnt have an incentive to lose games.
Do you go to practices? Do you see what happens in sprints? Do you see how dedicated the players are learning plays and concepts and open to teaching?
All you are going on is their recruited rankings and your perceived thought of what they are as players.
He jogs down the floor to a spot. he isn't sprinting trying to fill a lane.
Cliff appears like the only player that wants to get down the floor and make hard cuts to the basket in hopes of getting a pass. Everyone else is making their way to a spot beyond the 3 point line.
Only because he MIGHT have a handle kcg
Div-3 teams have PG’s with a handle.
That attribute alone would make us better.
In the post game press conference Pikell said we have to get more guys in there who is he talking about and where the hell is Miller every team plays freshman if Miller is not that good than this is just another piss poor job of recruiting by Pikell
If Mag plays 15 minutes per game we have a problem. He was often in game with Caleb, playing 3 vs 5 on offense.
I agree with your basketball assessment but totally disagree with your football assessment (i.e. Wimsatt). There are a whole lot more issues with the offensive personnel on the football team that preclude putting Wimsatt in a low probability of success. I won't go into details since this is a basketball thread on the basketball board.
Pike does not run a great half court offense and our best 2 fast break threats (JY and Mathis) are gone. Miller and Jones should definitely be getting more play time.
Mag was out there busting his a$$ doing everything he could to try and get this team to win. We need more Mags. Certain players need a complete reset and reprogramming of what effort is required to succeed on both offense and defense.
I refuse to watch more of what I saw from our most skilled basketball players last night. Forget the defensive end...there is effort required on the offensive end to get good shots. The ball finds people that make hard cuts and run the floor. It is also obvious that due to conditioning some players cant handle 32+ minutes of court time.
I do agree with the premise that Mag playing more than 15 is a symptom of a problem......at least right now until Mag improves skill wise.
R U changing ur name to Luke warm Greene Rice Fig?
mo
Ps I do agree with u … to keep up with the Jones it’s Miller time
Through 5 games, We have played 0-4 Lehigh, Ken Pom D 272nd, 3-3 Merrimack, KP D 99th, 1-2 NJIT, KP D 212th, 4-0 Depaul, KP D 126th, 1-4 Lafayette, KP D 313th.
Last years team FG 45% 3pt FG 31%
5625 minutes, 1939 points -- .0.344
We are shooting FG (114/305) 37.4% 3pt (24/99) 24.2%
317 points scored/1025 -- 0.309 per minute
2 highest % shooters, our 2 highest recruited players
Cliff 23/37 62.2% Jaden Jones 9/18 50%, despite a 1/6,0/4 last nite
192 minutes/1025, 82 points -- 0.427 per minute
FG 32/55 58.2%, 3pt 2-7 28.6%
Without those 2, FG 82/250 32.8%
Geo 20/50 40%, RHJ 26/66 39.3, Hyatt 15/43 34.9%
451 minutes/1025, 173 points -- 0.384
FG 61/159 38.4%, 3pt 20-67 29.9%
Paul 12/42 28.6, Caleb 5/30 16.6, Mag 1/7, Reiber 1/3, Agee 2/8, Palm 0/1
Paul and Caleb are 276 minutes and 49 points -- 0.178
382 minutes/1025, 62 points! SIX-TY TWO! -- 0.162
FG 21/91 23.1% 3pt 2-25 8%
EDIT **For context, every 200 minutes of a game they are playing 76 minutes total and shooting 4/18** scoring 12 points of a game. Taking one shot for every 4 minutes, hitting one shot every 19 minutes played.
Cliff and Jaden have scored 20 points more in half the minutes than 6 players combined. I get Paul 25reb, 10stls, McConnell 20reb,10stls, and play more than adequate defense. At times, they are playing 4 on 5, 3 on 5, 2 on 5 on offense, which probably makes those shots impossible to make.
Last years team FG 45% 3pt FG 31%
5625 minutes, 1939 points -- .0.344
We are shooting FG (114/305) 37.4% 3pt (24/99) 24.2%
317 points scored/1025 -- 0.309 per minute
2 highest % shooters, our 2 highest recruited players
Cliff 23/37 62.2% Jaden Jones 9/18 50%, despite a 1/6,0/4 last nite
192 minutes/1025, 82 points -- 0.427 per minute
FG 32/55 58.2%, 3pt 2-7 28.6%
Without those 2, FG 82/250 32.8%
Geo 20/50 40%, RHJ 26/66 39.3, Hyatt 15/43 34.9%
451 minutes/1025, 173 points -- 0.384
FG 61/159 38.4%, 3pt 20-67 29.9%
Paul 12/42 28.6, Caleb 5/30 16.6, Mag 1/7, Reiber 1/3, Agee 2/8, Palm 0/1
Paul and Caleb are 276 minutes and 49 points -- 0.178
382 minutes/1025, 62 points! SIX-TY TWO! -- 0.162
FG 21/91 23.1% 3pt 2-25 8%
EDIT **For context, every 200 minutes of a game they are playing 76 minutes total and shooting 4/18** scoring 12 points of a game. Taking one shot for every 4 minutes, hitting one shot every 19 minutes played.
Cliff and Jaden have scored 20 points more in half the minutes than 6 players combined. I get Paul 25reb, 10stls, McConnell 20reb,10stls, and play more than adequate defense. At times, they are playing 4 on 5, 3 on 5, 2 on 5 on offense, which probably makes those shots impossible to make.
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I'm really shocked (in a positive way) you so aggressively called out the coaches. The one thing I think a bit different is Paul should get more than 10 mins down lower. His rebounding value and hands are worth it. And his IQ and effort counts.
Pike has him totally out of position. And I don't think it's Paul's demand.
Great posts.
This was an embarrassing loss and not a great start to the year, but the people calling for Pike’s job are certified nuts.
He’s built a ton of equity in taking this program from the absolute worst in power 5 to two consecutive years of being very relevant team in the Big Ten via his methods. People want to lionize how good and talented we were in 2019, but there was little to no fanfare around that group to start the season. Hindsight is 20/20.
The team has played solid D to usual Pike team standard, but the lack of energy and execution on offense is startling.
Ron was obviously not himself last night, and he really hasn’t been the same player since our killer start to last season. I know most people on this board love to dislike Geo for petty/tired reasons, but this team plays better when he takes control and plays with energy and passion. He needs to run the point full time and run the show. I haven’t seen that in the majority of games thus far and it’s disappointing to see the two leaders of this team not playing well in these games.
Bottom line, unless these two step it up, we aren’t doing much this year.
He’s built a ton of equity in taking this program from the absolute worst in power 5 to two consecutive years of being very relevant team in the Big Ten via his methods. People want to lionize how good and talented we were in 2019, but there was little to no fanfare around that group to start the season. Hindsight is 20/20.
The team has played solid D to usual Pike team standard, but the lack of energy and execution on offense is startling.
Ron was obviously not himself last night, and he really hasn’t been the same player since our killer start to last season. I know most people on this board love to dislike Geo for petty/tired reasons, but this team plays better when he takes control and plays with energy and passion. He needs to run the point full time and run the show. I haven’t seen that in the majority of games thus far and it’s disappointing to see the two leaders of this team not playing well in these games.
Bottom line, unless these two step it up, we aren’t doing much this year.
So almost 24 hrs later I've calmed down mostly... my (hopefully) clearer thoughts are: 1) we most likely pull out another uggggly win if Geo and RHJ were playing 100% healthy down the stretch, but 2) we should've been up by like 15-20 pts before Geo went out injured.
To add...not only is Paul out of position but.
-Geo is NOT a shooting guard. He is a good scoring point guard. And he was moved from the point guard to the shooting ....and playing him out of position is part of the lack of cohesion in offense
-Ron is NOT a four. He is rebounding better but He is a theee that is best bullying himself to the basket. Taller forwards are going to make things difficult for him
-Jaden is not a small forward. He is a shooting guard now playing the three
We have so many guys playing out of position that it’s going to be incohesive
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