Game 26 Michigan State: Learning the lessons

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
251,801
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Was out working so was not able to watch the first half but listened to it on the radio, was able to see most of the 2nd half. Obviously being up 11 early in the 2nd half 36-25 and then getting outscored 37-10 to go down 62-46 is not a good thing and it cannot be excused. RU played one of their best halves of the year and had Sparty on their heels that entire first half, dictating pace and being the aggressor and playing with so much confidence. Coming off the crushing loss to Iowa everyone was wondering how this team would respond. Major credit to them, RU came to play, the staff did a great job preparing and all was going good. But Michigan State and Izzo are an elite team and coach. You knew that the 2nd half that they would be coming after RU much like they did in the OSU game where they put the clamps on the Buckeyes holding them to 13 points. I know everyone is disappointed on what could have been but reality is that Michigan State is several notches better than RU and it is not knocking RU. This game didnt surprise me, MSU is capable of turning on the jets and playing at another level.

I was posting in another thread about learning to win/playing at another level and in the past couple of game threads I talked about RU having to learn to play with leads. That was a huge issue tonight. How to value possessions and how to not blink and let the other team take control. A key time in this game was RU up 40-33, Caleb taking an ill advised 3 very early in the shot clock. Later at 40-37 with 13:23 to go, there was a 50 second stretch that simply decided the game. Michigan State was able to hit a 3 on their 5th chance, 4 rebounds, 3 of them by Aaron Henry. All hustle plays, all at a key time with a questionable lineup in the game. From there they were off to the races. That was it, the game was over. Sparty stuck a fork in Rutgers. There was going to be no recovery. RU had their blinking moment and the coaching staff like at Iowa was too cute in trying to save the best players. Lineup not good at critical juncture. We have been saying all year there is little margin of error for this team and tonight screamed that. Despite MSU being the better team and being better coached, RU had positioned themselves to win this game. RU played outstanding for about 25 minutes but when you are playing a team as talented as MSU that can knock you in the teeth and then smother you, you cannot give them an opening. Its like popping a whole in a water balloon. RU was left a soggy deflated mess with no answers for the last ten minutes.

How many learning lessons does this team have to have....well duh, unfortunately this is part of the process. Learning lessons come in many ways, the loss to Fordham was a learning lesson, the beatdown by Maryland was a learning lesson, the Northwestern loss a learning lesson, the Minnesota rout a learning lesson, the Illinois loss a learning lesson, the Iowa loss a learning lesson. Each loss taught this team something new and different that they had to go through. I am including coaches in on this as well. Tonight another part of growing up, playing with the lead, making sure you play at a high level throughout, understanding how outplaying a team is only one part of the game. Rutgers is not ready to win at Michigan State. That is okay, we should all feel good about what we saw in that first half and the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half. We continue to get closer, continue to fight. Its not a complete team with all the parts. RU can be tough and resilient against a Penn State or a Northwestern or an Illinois or Iowa but what it really takes to compete at the top of league RU learned tonight. For RU it was ugly as it can get for that 8-10 minute stretch, our worst basketball of the year perhaps. Honestly its what this team needed to go through. This team still has fight and still has hunger, we have seen it all year, we even saw it in the last 5 minutes of this game where RU decided to pick themselves off the floor, wipe their face and start working on their game again.

Going forward there is a 4 game stretch to close the year where RU can win any of them. And its true they can lose any of them. The truth will lay somewhere in between. This team has its limitations, I know some people are forcing the issue and the think the team is better than it is. RU is good, but good doesnt always show up in a rebuilding year. Lets relax on the expectations and enjoy what is going on with this rebuild. I am more than confident after seeing this past 4 game stretch that RU is closing the gap with the rest of the Big 10 and learning those needed lessons it will take with them in the offseason on what it will take to knock off a Michigan State and start moving to the top half of the standings.

Sunday cannot come fast enough for another opportunity for this program to show the fans that their hard work is starting to pay off.
 

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
I also don't understand why we didn't push more into the paint. Omoruyi had his man one on one several times in the first half, then passed it out behind the arc instead of going to the rim. We didn't get it into our bigs at all - Doorson had 0 attempts, and Johnson had just 5.

When we finally started getting the ball inside in the last 3 minutes, they started fouling us - but by that point, it was too late for foul trouble to be an issue. Needed to do that earlier - there was a stretch of like 10 minutes where I don't know if we had one shot attempt by someone over 6-7.
 

sct1111

All-American
Nov 30, 2014
6,145
8,462
113
I also don't understand why we didn't push more into the paint. Omoruyi had his man one on one several times in the first half, then passed it out behind the arc instead of going to the rim. We didn't get it into our bigs at all - Doorson had 0 attempts, and Johnson had just 5.

When we finally started getting the ball inside in the last 3 minutes, they started fouling us - but by that point, it was too late for foul trouble to be an issue. Needed to do that earlier - there was a stretch of like 10 minutes where I don't know if we had one shot attempt by someone over 6-7.
They adjusted their defense and denied the pass to the low block.
 
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Night Man

All-Conference
Jan 8, 2006
29,783
3,710
113
When we were up 40-33 I thought this was going to be the one, we've been nipping at MSU for about 4-5 straight games now.

Omoruyi getting himself uncontested layups and then missing them early in the 2nd half... ouch
The 4 threes possession... ouch
Defense on Winston... ouch
Missing wide open 3s... ouch

Hey it's not like in past years where they would play a top team tight and then lose the next two by 25 each, this team is competing, but at the end of the day only wins will propel a program... gotta find them. Gotta take them when we set the table.
 

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
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They adjusted their defense and denied the pass to the low block.

Then we needed to adjust our offense to get more opportunities inside. A 6-8 and a 6-7 forward managed to deny a 7-0 and 6-10 center from touching the ball for almost the entire game. We needed to get Johnson going early down low and force their forwards to defend (and foul) - and we just never managed to do that.
 
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JQRU91

All-Conference
Apr 6, 2013
1,855
1,386
0
This is a game where the consistency issue really showed itself with the freshman. They only combined for 21 points tonight. Mathis had a stretch where he stepped up, but has since been quiet. Then McConnell had a few good games and came down with the flu. Harper played big last game and was good tonight, but more in an auxiliary cog in the machine kind of a way. We needed someone to come up big, but the freshmen are still having to learn how to deliver the goods with consistency.
 
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G- RUnit

All-American
Sep 13, 2004
14,399
8,001
113
Hard to learn how to win on road when refs are so blatantly biased. Story of game. Despite all RU faults refs killed us.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
251,801
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well Eugene missed two easy bunnies early in the 2nd half. I think RU was going there for a time in the 2nd half and then turnovers and bad shot selection...Caleb 3, Mathis 3 where I think he got yanked, Baker 3 all ill advised, RU panicked. I thought Pike had the wrong lineup in at what proved to be a critical time.
 
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NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,849
39,882
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Eugene missed like 3 layups.

This was essentially the difference in keeping the lead for a longer period of time and not. I texted one of my friends and those chippies that were missed, weren't missed by some of the Indiana bigs and certainly not be Georgi of Illinois when MSU lost there.

MSU had 16 1st half turnovers at Illinois and another 8 or so vs RU in 1st half.

I think to a certain extent when you want to spring an upset like this, there has to be an out of usual play by the opponent or something crazy like Nick Ward going 1 for 9 from the FT vs Indiana.

My take away was involving Caleb not delivering when having open looks and Eugene probably wants a couple of those easy ones back. Otherwise I felt RU played well in spurts.

Minnesota has Michigan tomorrow night, an OT game for them, wouldn't be the worse thing in the world for RU.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
251,801
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This was essentially the difference in keeping the lead for a longer period of time and not. I texted one of my friends and those chippies that were missed, weren't missed by some of the Indiana bigs and certainly not be Georgi of Illinois when MSU lost there.

MSU had 16 1st half turnovers at Illinois and another 8 or so vs RU in 1st half.

I think to a certain extent when you want to spring an upset like this, there has to be an out of usual play by the opponent or something crazy like Nick Ward going 1 for 9 from the FT vs Indiana.



My take away was involving Caleb not delivering when having open looks and Eugene probably wants a couple of those easy ones back. Otherwise I felt RU played well in spurts.

Minnesota has Michigan tomorrow night, an OT game for them, wouldn't be the worse thing in the world for RU.


RU need to be up 15-16 on this team. When MSU is turning the ball over you have to make them pay, when they foul , you have to hit the foul shots....Doorson missing two free throws in the first half with a chance to build the lead, Kiss putting up a dumb 3 with just seconds run off the shot clock toward the end of the half. Like I said RU has to act like its been there. they need to work on what got them the lead and they need to finish and make free throws, they failed on all 3 in key junctures....Caleb scored 24 vs Illinois and people were annointing him a starter, we see everyone needs to relax on expectations we put on the younger players.

how about just getting housed on the boards tonight
 
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JonathanAlan

Heisman
Jan 14, 2002
6,674
10,728
113
It was a tale of two halves. Rutgers played with a "swagger" in the first half ( as noted by the BTN analyst). It was noticeably missing the second half. It was as if the two teams exchanged uniforms for the second half. In the second half their shooting was off , MSU rebounded well and limited Rutgers offensive rebounding, MSU defended even better and Rutgers defense wasn't nearly as aggressive and effective . No one really stood out for Rutgers on offense although Kiss played scored some points as Mathis took bad forced shots and saw limited minutes in the second half.
 
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nukem

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2003
2,156
4,722
113
This game was not about another learning experience to me. This was a missed opportunity. EO missed 3 layups and Johnson 1 missed layup when we were up and could've maintained that lead early 2nd half. The game totally changed at that point. Add the missed free throws and missed open looks and there you have it. It's a shame, but to me, it's a lesson that's already been taught. At some point, this team has to grab a game by the balls and squeeze. Having a talented scorer would sure help.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
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Then we needed to adjust our offense to get more opportunities inside. A 6-8 and a 6-7 forward managed to deny a 7-0 and 6-10 center from touching the ball for almost the entire game. We needed to get Johnson going early down low and force their forwards to defend (and foul) - and we just never managed to do that.

Defensively we had trouble with high screens. They used their not big bigs to screen so since we were big we couldn’t switch (although we rarely switch). Needed to make them pay on the offensive end at least.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
19,433
12,575
82
We got beat at our own game. Give credit to MSU. They were undersized but killed us on the boards in the 2nd half.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
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Again we got hurt with Baker sitting out. In 2 minutes he sat in 2nd half MSU beat us 5-0 and our offense looked terrible.
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
251,801
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Again we got hurt with Baker sitting out. In 2 minutes he sat in 2nd half MSU beat us 5-0 and our offense looked terrible.


this and this is where youth plays a factor and why I say slow the roll on projecting people out of the lineup next year...we actually had one genius saying that Baker would not start next year...wtf...facepalm. Baker is hardly mistake free but there is a reason why he needs to be out there as much as possible because he is better suited for us when we are treading water in a bad stretch. Pike has to not fall into the trap again with that kind of lineup..two games in a row in crucial situations with the game very tight. Izzo rode Cassius for all he had, sometimes you have to roll with what got you there Pike
 

rutger80

All-Conference
Oct 14, 2013
2,477
1,762
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Two words: Cassius Winston.

In addition, during that stretch where MSU took control, the refs sure swallowed their whistles.
We had multiple shots down low.....and no fouls?
 
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RW90

All-American
Feb 2, 2002
8,394
7,667
113
Again we got hurt with Baker sitting out. In 2 minutes he sat in 2nd half MSU beat us 5-0 and our offense looked terrible.
Its hard to believe it was only 2 minutes. It seemed more like an eternity with as bad the offense looked.
 

RU-ROCS

All-American
Feb 5, 2003
12,487
7,730
113
This game was not about another learning experience to me. This was a missed opportunity. EO missed 3 layups and Johnson 1 missed layup when we were up and could've maintained that lead early 2nd half. The game totally changed at that point. Add the missed free throws and missed open looks and there you have it. It's a shame, but to me, it's a lesson that's already been taught. At some point, this team has to grab a game by the balls and squeeze. Having a talented scorer would sure help.

Agreed. Too many missed bunnies right at the hoop and a total inability to hit foul shots were big keys to this loss. Bad FT shooting is an edpidemic on this team. In needs to improve dramatically for RU to pull off road upsets.
 

RUonBrain

All-American
Apr 29, 2002
8,103
7,543
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At his size, he'll be our Magic Johnson! Seriously like how he runs the floor with the ball in transition, not sure about it in the half court. He's got so much potential.

He drives the lane in transition like he is still in High School. Fearless!
And it usually goes in!
 
A

anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy

Guest
I am in amsterdam so I went right to bed when the game ended at 2:30am local time but my thoughts are as follows.

1) we really had a chance to win this one but that one possession where they got 5 offensive boards and finally drilled a 3 completely turned the tide in this one. It was a deflating moment. Peter kiss had an opportunity to grab the 2nd board that possession but seemingly didnt even try to grab it. Next year that will be jacob young or caleb or ron there and we snag that board and we calm down. I actually thought kiss played one of his best games all season but he’s just not a plus player. He doesnt do the little things. Especially later in the game we saw his extreme lack of lateral quickness when winston completely put him in the spin cycle. When that happens, the other team gains so much confidence that they all think, these guys cant even stay with us. It’s a deflating thing to have happen.

2) we are BRUTAL at defending high screens and pick and rolls, BRUTAL. Jay young has to do something to teach our guys how to defend these better. Winston just went on a tear of what seemed like possession after possession at one point of just simply running the pick and roll. This has been a problem all year. Id suggest a hard hedge off the screeners top hip personally but theres gotta be a reason for why we dont do this.

3) ron harpers stroke is still looking smooth. Racked up some fouls but ******** this kid is gonna be so damn good. Hes now hitting shots regularly on catch and shoots with a defender closing out. He’s the 3 that can shoot that weve been desperate for. He does sooo much well.
 

rufeelinit

All-Conference
May 16, 2010
12,647
4,351
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As well as we played in the first half we played worse in the second half. Didn't even like the effort after about 5 minutes, which cannot be an issue. The offense becomes stagnant and I wonder if we will ever be a Belien/Wright type of team that moves the ball around to create an open look or get some one on a cut to the basket. Our passes into the post were low percentage tosses that reflected laziness. As usual the ball gets stuck in certain guys hands and we need to hit a higher percentage of shots around the rim. Shooting percentage had to be awful in the second half. Particularly the first 15 minutes.

We looked gassed which I don't understand if true. Geo was an easy take for Winston and getting over ball screens was an issue. One time Carter actually screened another of our guys on defense.

What can easily get lost in this is how good we looked in the first half. Geo was hot and the rest of the team made enough shots to avoid a scoring drought. MSU helped with some unenforced turnovers. In retrospect we should have been up more however given that we scored the first 4 of the second half I don't think that was the determining factor either. I felt confident we could win this game and were catching MSU at the right time. Then the wheels came flying off. Ugh!
 

newwavedave1

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2006
3,982
3,522
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Agreed. Too many missed bunnies right at the hoop and a total inability to hit foul shots were big keys to this loss. Bad FT shooting is an edpidemic on this team. In needs to improve dramatically for RU to pull off road upsets.
Agree 100%. We also have to eliminate the offense looking "lost" for long periods. Probably due to inexperience.
 

kcg88

Heisman
Aug 11, 2017
10,862
17,230
0
Michigan State puts everyone in the grinder in the second half. They held OSU to 13 points, they were dead against Purdue and rallied back to tie it, etc.
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,849
39,882
113
There's enough B1G games of evidence to consider the projections forward for 2019-20.

While Mulcahy could be a better option to free Baker up off the ball, Dan Dakich and other announcers explained why Geo Baker, Cassius Winston, Carsen Edwards, Romeo Langford etc are given the ball at the top of the key.

When your best scorer has the ball at the top of the key, it prevents a team from double teaming. It also gives the player the floor space. If you take Geo off the ball, the only other "get your own shot off" player off the dribble as of now, is Jacob Young.

While Mulcahy will hopefully take some workload away from Geo on the ball, if Geo is catching passes on the wing, he's easier to shade and bracket or double and if the player doubling Baker is supposed to be sticking with Mulcahy, Mulcahy has to be capable of a catch and shoot option, if he's your PG or the thoughts he's the PG.

I really believe Mulcahy is going to help off the ball, where he can catch, drive towards the paint to score, pull up or find others on the move. On some of these opportunities. Caleb has scored and gotten a few of those chances.

I probably counted 6 or 7 empty possessions where the ball went around the perimeter and the only "off the dribble option was Ron Harper. The one 3 by Harper was Geo at the top and drawing enough attention for Harper catch and shoot. Young will score at the top of the key OR can be off the ball as the catch and shoot,drive player.

A truly best case scenario is Mulcahy becomes a better shooter or more confident and aggressive shooter against an elite defense like MSU, that perhaps gives some driving lanes and drive and kick and we have more scoring opportunities.

And there has to be that hybrid wing and low post athletic combo forward that can take a 3 and get the low post opportunities that Eugene gets.....and converts more of those options in the half court.

I feel like our offense has been improved, just needs an uptick in athletic ability and scoring inside....and we need another SG/SF who plays passing lanes and in the right position defensively. I believe Mulcahy can be a solid positional player in the passing lanes and can rebound some of those misses and get RU more transition buckets
.....RU got some layups from Mathis and Harper in transition but need more against a team like MSU.
 
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Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
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Bohannon and Edwards are pretty tough when 2 bigs are setting low post screens and they are running around for 5-10 seconds just trying to get their man screened.

and yes we desperately need to upgrade the SG/SF position with someone getting in passing lanes and quite frankly with a "nose for the ball"
 

TDIrish27

All-Conference
Aug 2, 2001
4,438
2,666
0
Sparty has shut down teams for a long time when they turn up their defense.

RU got their attention---played hard----just didn't finish well at the rim.

Three point shooting was poor and I thought Mathis had a rough game.
 

RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,302
12,577
113
When we were up 40-33 I thought this was going to be the one, we've been nipping at MSU for about 4-5 straight games now.

Omoruyi getting himself uncontested layups and then missing them early in the 2nd half... ouch
The 4 threes possession... ouch
Defense on Winston... ouch
Missing wide open 3s... ouch

Hey it's not like in past years where they would play a top team tight and then lose the next two by 25 each, this team is competing, but at the end of the day only wins will propel a program... gotta find them. Gotta take them when we set the table.
Wins are the best measure of actual progress as seen with 5 league wins and 2 on the road.At the same time reality needs to set in as to the future.There must be significant improvement in every players offensive game so that missed layups and foul shots are minimized.The three point shot must be incorporated into the offense as a means of opening the driving lanes to the basket for players like Mathis.The half court offense needs players that have the skill set to create and make shots off the dribble.Lots of work for the off season .
 

kcg88

Heisman
Aug 11, 2017
10,862
17,230
0
Michigan State has shot worse than 33% from 3-point four times in Big Ten play.

Rutgers has done it ten times.
 

higgins3

All-Conference
Dec 15, 2012
7,319
2,434
113
I am happy Pikiell is our coach. He is a great coach.

I have seen trends though of coming out slow in the 2nd half, and ill subbing patterns.

I thought they both costed up the game yesterday. I believe both things are changeable, luckily. In the second half at 9-11 minutes to go, every fan saw the lineup that was on the court was REALLY struggling. The worst lineup I have seen thus far. That is when MSU started their streak. It was bad.
 

Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,378
16,272
73
This was essentially the difference in keeping the lead for a longer period of time and not. I texted one of my friends and those chippies that were missed, weren't missed by some of the Indiana bigs and certainly not be Georgi of Illinois when MSU lost there.

MSU had 16 1st half turnovers at Illinois and another 8 or so vs RU in 1st half.

I think to a certain extent when you want to spring an upset like this, there has to be an out of usual play by the opponent or something crazy like Nick Ward going 1 for 9 from the FT vs Indiana.

My take away was involving Caleb not delivering when having open looks and Eugene probably wants a couple of those easy ones back. Otherwise I felt RU played well in spurts.

Minnesota has Michigan tomorrow night, an OT game for them, wouldn't be the worse thing in the world for RU.

Those missed layups in the second half were huge ...we kept the window
Open for them when it could have been a 13 to 15 point lead ....
 
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