Game 26 Michigan State: Learning the lessons

[RUJMM78]

I am happy Pikiell is our coach. He is a great coach.

I have seen trends though of coming out slow in the 2nd half, and ill subbing patterns.

I thought they both costed up the game yesterday. I believe both things are changeable, luckily. In the second half at 9-11 minutes to go, every fan saw the lineup that was on the court was REALLY struggling. The worst lineup I have seen thus far. That is when MSU started their streak. It was bad.

There was a similar substitution pattern in the second half of the Iowa game that caused a Rutgers lead to disappear.The problem with substitutions is that Rutgers has so few consistent scoring threats on the court even with the starters.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The main issue with the substitution patterns is we don't have a backup point guard. We can point to the other 4 in the game, but the majority of time the issue is the back up point guard.

 

[RUChoppin]

I know that a lot has been made of who was in the game for that 4-offensive-board stretch, but we did have three starters on the floor at that point. McConnell-Mathis-Kiss-Omoruyi-Doorson. In conference play, McConnell and Mathis are our best rebounding guards on a per 40 basis - though we couldn't manage to grab a board during that key sequence.

Rbs/40 min for guards in conference games:
6.7 - McConnell
5.4 - Mathis
5.4 - Harper
5.3 - Thiam
4.5 - Kiss
3.5 - Baker

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I know that a lot has been made of who was in the game for that 4-offensive-board stretch, but we did have three starters on the floor at that point. McConnell-Mathis-Kiss-Omoruyi-Doorson. In conference play, McConnell and Mathis are our best rebounding guards on a per 40 basis - though we couldn't manage to grab a board during that key sequence.

Rbs/40 min for guards in conference games:
6.7 - McConnell
5.4 - Mathis
5.4 - Harper
5.3 - Thiam
4.5 - Kiss
3.5 - Baker

Mathis was guarding to Henry, until after the 4th rebound he got switched to McQuaid.

 

[bac2therac]

I think playing MacConnell and Kiss together is bad news especially with another so so ball handler like Mathis

unfortunately that is where we are at right now, its an incomplete team because some players are too young and we are short two contributors

 

[RUChoppin]

Okay, just went back to rewatch that sequence.

In the game at that point was:
McConnell (6-6) on Winston (6-1)
Kiss (6-5) on McQuaid (6-5)
Mathis (6-4) on Henry (6-6)
Omoruyi (6-7) on Goins (6-7)
Doorson (7-0) on Kithier (6-8)

So, we didn't have much of a height advantage other than at the 1 and the 5.

1st shot - Winston attempts a step back 3 pointer

As Winston made his move, Mathis stepped up near the foul line to defend against dribble penetration, which allowed Henry to cut behind him to the basket and get position. Mathis was then behind him when the rebound came off the rim. Doorson's position was too far under the basket, and he and Kithier were under the backboard and out of the play. Henry gets rebound.

May have gotten the board if: Doorson could have set up further from the basket, especially on a three pointer. Mathis could have stayed with his man instead of stepping away from him to try to prevent penetration.

2nd shot - Henry tries a short jumper in the lane

Henry puts up his shot and Doorson jumps to try to block. Shot misses and rebounds off the rim back toward Henry. Doorson jumps to try to get it in front of Henry and Mathis from behind, but Henry tips it up and away from the basket. Now Henry jumps for it between Mathis and Kiss, who was standing outside the paint. It's possible that Kiss could have gotten there first if he was a little more aggressive - and he was playing without a man at that point, as McQuaid had turned upcourt on defense. Henry gets another rebound and passes it out.

May have gotten the board if: Kiss could have been more aggressive.

3rd shot - Goins attempts a 3 pointer over Omoruyi

We had pretty good position under the basket, but rebound came out long to the foul line. As the shot went off, Omoruyi turned upcourt instead of staying with Goins, who followed his shot and got the rebound. With Omoruyi now out of the play at halfcourt trying to get back, Mathis switched onto Goins from Winston. Goins passes to Winston, which pulls Kiss off of McQuaid. Winston passes to the open McQuaid, and Doorson is pulled out to the corner on a close out, leaving no center under the basket.

May have gotten the board if: Omoruyi could have looked for the rebound after the shot and blocked out Goins instead of turning up court on an expected made three.

4th shot - McQuaid attempts a 3 pointer from the corner over Doorson

McConnell had position on Henry, but was a bit too close to the basket. High rebound came off the rim long and over McC's head to Henry. Henry passes back out. If McConnell had cleared out Henry a bit more expecting a longer carom off the corner three, he probably could have gotten this rebound.

May have gotten the board if: McConnell could have tried to clear Henry back further away from the basket.

5th shot - McQuaid made 3 pointer

Kiss ended up on Winston here, and Mathis helped off of McQuaid when Winston attempted to dribble penetrate. Winston laid it off for the open McQuaid, who hit the three.

 

[higgins3]

There was a similar substitution pattern in the second half of the Iowa game that caused a Rutgers lead to disappear.The problem with substitutions is that Rutgers has so few consistent scoring threats on the court even with the starters.

I hear you. McConnell has improved and I am happy for him. Still, he works best when he is with Baker. The team did not have one reliable scorer on that lineup, and it was very obvious. At that point, the game started to drift in a major way.

Baker gets a slight break of the responsibilities with McConnell on the floor. It is enough for him and that should keep Baker on the floor. MSU game was winnable, but that line up helped kill it.

 

[higgins3]

The main issue with the substitution patterns is we don't have a backup point guard. We can point to the other 4 in the game, but the majority of time the issue is the back up point guard.

McConnell can play back up point fine. He does do a lot better when Baker is still out there at the two.

Baker can still get his breather at some point in the game. Against a #10 MSU, you have to give him the run the team needs for them to win.

 

[RUChoppin]

Looking at the lineups during the 29-6 MSU run:

15:09 - 40-33 (right after Carter layup, just before the run began)
Baker - McConnell - Kiss - Omoruyi - Carter

14:19 - 40-35
13:42 - 40-37

13:49 - RU turnover. Substitution of Doorson for Carter and Mathis for Baker.
McConnell - Mathis - Kiss - Omoruyi - Doorson

12:36 - 40-40 (after long MSU possession with 4 OReb)
12:35 - Timeout RU, no substitutions.

Baker goes to scorer's table for next break in play.

12:03 - 40-42

Harper goes to scorer's table for next break in play.

11:20 - Foul on Kiss. Substitution of Baker/Harper/Carter for Mathis/Kiss/Omoruyi.
11:20 - 40-44 (after 2 made FTs).

Baker - McConnell - Harper - Carter - Doorson

Johnson goes to scorer's table for next break in play.

11:00 - 43-44

10:40 - Foul on Doorson. Substitution of Johnson for Doorson
10:40 - 43-46 (after 2 made FTs)

Baker - McConnell - Harper - Carter - Johnson

10:22 - 43-48
10:14 - RU timeout. No substitution.
10:06 - Carter turnover on entry to Johnson. Substitution of Omoruyi for Carter

Baker - McConnell - Harper - Omoruyi - Johnson

9:28 - Harper turnover on tap back to Omoruyi
8:55 - 43-51 (Winston corner three at end of shot clock)
8:09 - 43-53
7:39 - 44-53
6:44 - 44-56
6:15 - 45-56
5:52 - 45-58
5:34 - 46-58
4:59 - Baker turnover. Substitution of Doorson for Johnson

Baker - McConnell - Harper - Omoruyi - Doorson

4:41 - 46-60
3:36 - 46-62
3:36 - Foul on Harper, who makes both to end the run.
3:36 - 48-62

So, over a run that lasted 11:33, the minute distribution was:
11:33 - McConnell
10:19 - Omoruyi
9:04 - Baker
7:44 - Harper
5:59 - Johnson
4:32 - Doorson
3:49 - Mathis
3:49 - Kiss
1:54 - Carter

 

[bac2therac]

shocked that McConnell got all the most minutes considering he was a total non factor at best in this game but thats what happens when Mathis has to be taught lesson.

I think its only for a short time but in the Iowa game and in the MSU just a couple plays during a shaky lineup can have enormous effect on the momentum

yet momentum shift aside its still a 1 point game with 11 minutes left....RU has to weather that storm, instead it was a complete collapse, the air let out of the balloon. They lost all confidence and swagger and it wasnt coming back...i mean its only 48-43 with 9 minutes to go....come on guys you were in the game but you totally acted like he couldnt fight back

 

[RUChoppin]

i mean its only 48-43 with 9 minutes to go....come on guys you were in the game but you totally acted like he couldnt fight back

I really felt at that moment we were "still in it".... and we were fighting hard on defense, trying to get a stop. Then Winston worked his way into the corner late in the clock, did a sort of sidestep/stepback and drilled a three from the corner to make it 51-43, to roars from the crowd.... which was followed by Omoruyi attempting a 3 with 15 seconds left on the shot clock. That's when I really felt the game start to slip away.

Just rewatched that corner three, and it looks like Baker guarding Winston and Omoruyi came up to double... and for whatever reason, Omoruyi stepped in as the primary defender and Baker dropped off to look for Omoruyi's man. Not saying that Baker could have defended that three any better, but was a strange switch at that moment.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

McConnell can play back up point fine. He does do a lot better when Baker is still out there at the two.

Baker can still get his breather at some point in the game. Against a #10 MSU, you have to give him the run the team needs for them to win.

With the exception of the Illinois game the team has been a disaster the entire year with Baker out of the game.

I know people say stars on other teams can play 35+ minutes. The reality is Geo has diminshing returns over a certain amount of minutes.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It may be time to dust off Issa and see what he can do again.

 

[higgins3]

With the exception of the Illinois game the team has been a disaster the entire year with Baker out of the game.

I know people say stars on other teams can play 35+ minutes. The reality is Geo has diminshing returns over a certain amount of minutes.

That is a great point about the diminishing returns. Still, when you shift McConnell to main ball handling responsibilities, Baker has less cognitive load, and has the potential to play better. Both will still see time for a breather when Mathis/Kiss can be subbed for Baker.

When you have a chance to make a statement against a top ten team, Baker has to be in to be a threat.

I agree I would like to see a little Issa at one point. If he doesn't play do well offensively at least he gives effort going up for rebounds,etc.

 

[bac2therac]

It may be time to dust off Issa and see what he can do again.

a mystery novel if I ever read one

 

[Degaz-RU]

There should not be a single second when BOTH Baker and Omoruyi are on the bench. At least one of them needs to be in the game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

a mystery novel if I ever read one

unfortunately it really hasnt been a mystery, just a bad book.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That is a great point about the diminishing returns. Still, when you shift McConnell to main ball handling responsibilities, Baker has less cognitive load, and has the potential to play better. Both will still see time for a breather when Mathis/Kiss can be subbed for Baker.

When you have a chance to make a statement against a top ten team, Baker has to be in to be a threat.

I agree I would like to see a little Issa at one point. If he doesn't play do well offensively at least he gives effort going up for rebounds,etc.

theoretically yes with baker...a minute off the ball isn't quite the same as a minute on the ball. he does need rest though and when he comes out of games opponents have or will smell blood. McCaffrey gave Bohannon a rest at the 14 minutes mark I'd think designed to rest him thru the media timeout. When McConnell went in for Baker McCaffrey rushed Bohannon in to the game.

https://scarletknights.com/boxscore.aspx?id=7462&path=mbball

 

[higgins3]

theoretically yes with baker...a minute off the ball isn't quite the same as a minute on the ball. he does need rest though and when he comes out of games opponents have or will smell blood. McCaffrey gave Bohannon a rest at the 14 minutes mark I'd think designed to rest him thru the media timeout. When McConnell went in for Baker McCaffrey rushed Bohannon in to the game.

https://scarletknights.com/boxscore.aspx?id=7462&path=mbball

We both agree he should never play a full 40. In games like MSU though, I think he should get a rest for the 14 minute mark in the second half. To win that game, he should be playing 37 minutes. They get halftime to rest. He does get sloppy, but the team plays better with him in.

 

[BillyC80]

It may be time to dust off Issa and see what he can do again.

I would be in favor of this.

Not saying Pike hasn’t tried or I know better than him, but Thiam needs to be told in no uncertain terms to look for any opening to get his shot off and to take it. If he passes up any opportunity he’s getting yanked.

On defense he has to be told to guard his man tightly at the arc and not let his guy get even one 3-point shot attempt — force him inside the arc.

In other words Issa needs to loosen up on offense and tighten up on defense (especially at the arc).