GAME 10 MICHIGAN STATE: ABOMINATION

[bethlehemfan]

Just skimmed the other posts in this thread and most were as expected. I stayed with the game until about 10 minutes left in the second half when the outcome was obvious. I like of few of Hawk's takes although I am not sure MSU has better athletes/players across the board. I will say that rumors of MSU's demise are premature or exaggerated. The only reason the game was close into the second half was MSU's turnovers in the first half. The picked it up on both ends in the second half and throttled us. Make the team watch the tape, learn from it and burn it.

Our known shortcomings were prominent when combined with our poor overall play. Three areas that we are going to have to live with to some extent are the lack of rebounding strength, certain guys being unable to play man to man defense against quick opponents and erratic foul shooting. As Hawk said we have been scouted and we need to make some adjustments. If the other team has a couple of bigs, then going inside to Myles will result in him being muscled and forcing him to make FT's if a foul is called. He is just a terrible FT shooter. We seem to want to praise him if he hits 50%. He also seems unable to catch, gather and go up strong consistently.

Not sure if we panicked or just lost all semblance of our floor balance but I could not believe the amount hero/iso ball plays guys were trying to make. It got worse as the game progressed as all of them got the disease. I think teams are not afraid of our drives to the basket (except for Young) thus can guard certain guys close when in the triple threat position and dare them to beat their opponent off the dribble. We need to try at times but need to be smarter and do it off a pick or a pass rather five seconds of dribble then drive.

We shot poorly overall and second chance opportunities were far and few between. I am not satisfied with our team effort on the boards. Too many guys either allowing their guy to get in position for a second rebound on the defensive end and not enough effort on the offensive end. Myles can grab all the rebounds himself particularly when we are asking to hedge far from the basket. Other will snap rebounds with authority if they are in position for a fortunate bounce but fixing this is going to require more emphasis. Having Cliff back will help but I don't see him and Myles playing a lot together and so others need to do more.

Finally minutes allocation will take a couple more games to get sorted out. I mentioned that it is nice that Caleb is back but finding his minutes requires some one else to sit. I can't imagine working Jaden Jones in at this point unless he is really special.

Last night was as ugly as it has been in awhile. We need to come out breathing fire on Saturday.

I think there may be a little bit of a lack of mental toughness on display. I am not saying our guys are soft but sometimes they seem to get punched and respond the wrong way by trying to do too much themselves instead of bearing down on the fundamentals that actually set this team apart at times. It’s an easy trap to fall into. I am not saying that’s what happened here but in my experience when someone takes it to you physically there can be a tendency to do the opposite of what is needed.

 

[RUDead]

That was a lazy and selfish display of basketball last night. Rebounding, effort, ball movement, and off ball movement were horrendous. And the worst offenders were the upperclassman. Make them watch that game one time and then burn the tape.

Need to get back to playing unselfish on offense.

 

[JonathanAlan]

Give Michigan State credit--they played with a toughness and physicality that I often associate with a Pikiell team. I agree with Scarlet Blind that the team relies too much on an offensive identity when it's defense and rebounding that is the hallmark of a Pikiell team... Witness tonight that when the shots weren't falling the guys got frustrated and down on themselves and couldn't fall back on their defense. Rutgers is not a great shooting team notwithstanding their recent success at 3pt shooting and it's given them a false sense of how good they are from outside. Mathis , Baker, and Harper are good shooters but better from intermediate range than 3pt range. Mulcahy is inconsistent from outside. Young had a tough night , especially finishing around the basket where he normally excels. Good shooting teams can make foul shots and this team can't. And it's not just the "wrong guys" ( ie. Myles) are getting fouled...... I've said in other posts and repeat it now --we miss Akwasi a lot. He was a solid rebounder , especially offensive rebounding, and consistent physically tough player who often got the big rebound or made outside shot to break an opposing team's run and momentum. This team misses Cliff's presence on defense and rebounding. We lack a second strong rebounder to crash the boards. Ever since the OSU game, Cliff's absence has made Myles much more tentative on defense and rebounds. We just aren't getting offensive rebounds as in the past ( recall last year we were a top offensive rebounding team) and not enough guys are crashing the boards on defense. If Myles is blocked out or out of position underneath , we lack that consistent second presence around the rim. Rutgers will bounce back because we have some very fine players who due to injuries etc just aren't playing at the level they have been and we expect to see. And because Pikiell is the head coach. In Steve I trust.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Here's the deal with Michigan State......

Izzo changes the lineup (sorry Rocket Watts) and rotation against Northwestern. He is playing guys who will defend and get 50/50s and essentially play like Rutgers Basketball over the past 3 years. Last night we faced a team that is still evolving offensively, but has bought in completely on the defensive end.

Think about who we have played so far.....Syracuse, Maryland, Purdue, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan State.

Syracuse....zone
Maryland...man, but not stifling
Purdue....man, but not stifling...went offense over defense playing small sophomore PG
Ohio State.....have bodies and some length, but not in your face
Iowa...zone
Michigan State....most engaged defensive unit we have seen

I think things weren't as easy as we have been accustomed to. We stopped trusting each other and did things individually. Guy were definitely frustrated because guards didn't get them the ball as they have all season.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The concerns/takeaways from last night
1. Geo Baker has been awful defensively this year
2. Ron Harper not dialed in defensively yet either
3. Jacob Young was dialed in defensively in half 1, for the 1st time I can recall he was not in the 2nd half. fatigue?
4. I don't know if we want Jacob Young as the primary point guard. We do when the offense is humming, but last night in the 2nd half he wasnt seeing open guys in their normal spot. Missed Montez twice in his 3 spot. Had Myles multiple times on penetration for easy buckets.

Let me add....
Myles and Jacob Young double handedly kept us in the basketball game in the 1st half. They both were off the charts from an energy and defensive execution standpoint. The rest of the team........ Half 2 a different story

 

[JonathanAlan]

Here's the deal with Michigan State......

Izzo changes the lineup (sorry Rocket Watts) and rotation against Northwestern. He is playing guys who will defend and get 50/50s and essentially play like Rutgers Basketball over the past 3 years. Last night we faced a team that is still evolving offensively, but has bought in completely on the defensive end.

Think about who we have played so far.....Syracuse, Maryland, Purdue, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan State.

Syracuse....zone
Maryland...man, but not stifling
Purdue....man, but not stifling...went offense over defense playing small sophomore PG
Ohio State.....have bodies and some length, but not in your face
Iowa...zone
Michigan State....most engaged defensive unit we have seen

I think things weren't as easy as we have been accustomed to. We stopped trusting each other and did things individually. Guy were definitely frustrated because guards didn't get them the ball as they have all season.

When I saw Michigan State play earlier this season I commented that they lacked a really solid point guard --they still do. And they don't have the physical presence at center like they had last year. This is a good MSU team but far from great and will be lucky to win more than half their Big Ten games.

 

[ancienthooper]

I want to laugh at the lengthy list of bad posts here, without any mention of what the stark reality is.....Michigan State has better players AND RU and it's entire staff decided to run it's offense into a team with better athletes in half court.

Bac....your recap is overwhelming bad, irrational and frankly, you and a bunch of fans saw Michigan State get beat in transition, miss a bunch of shots at Northwestern and Minnesota and immediately decided that those 2 games was the new normal of Michigan State.

You can only be so wrong. I don't have the time and energy to explain that Tom Izzo and Michigan State have done this to elite, good and a lot of teams in between on their own court. And yes, while Cassius Winston and Xavier Tillman moved on to the next level, many fans were fooled by the Northwestern and Minnesota games, thinking MSU would be somehow a sub .500 team.

They have 4* players or higher at almost every position and if it's not a 4* player, it a player specifically designed for the role in their system on either offense or defense. It's not a great MSU team that just overwhelmed teams with shooting and sheer power at the basket. But it's terrifying to see everyone saying this is a bunch of reasons all that are RUs fault....suddenly Caleb, a player we clearly need for the next 2 months, is the problem....or whatever else others mentioned here about minutes being distributed.....??

Here is the game summary for you and everyone else. RU does not have player for player the ability or athletic ability to decide to put their head down, take off with the ball and try to beat a Tom Izzo led defense, when they are already set on defense in the half court.

Steve Pikiell and the staff have now been scouted....and scouted again....and scouted some more as a ranked opponent....teams now know exactly what you run on offense and when teams are prepared, desperate and have success stopping what you want to run, it is up to the staff not the players to place new items, new plays run and RU for the 1st time, was forced to run it's half court offense for 40 minutes. And when the defense was there to take away the 1st or 2nd shot that was usually there against Cuse, Illinois, Ohio State or Iowa, the team needed to continue to run it's offense.

What you saw was a bunch of screens that were prepared for. And Pike needs to go back into the film room, into the breakdowns and convince this team that it has to actually run it's offense for all 25 or 20 seconds once they get across half court.

So when the team didn't see any success running their offense because Sparty was VERY prepared, the players knew it and decided to pressure the defense and had a LOT of success....RU forced so many turnovers but then panicked because they weren't having half court success and tried to make crazy down court passes to get a quick layup and got a couple, but either then went 1 on 2 or had others going faster to try and beat the defense....

When you have played a game like this, it happens......But it wasn't at Nebraska or at some other team that doesn't play tough defense. MSU smothered everything in half court and it is up to the staff, to break down the film, correct the mistakes and to change their sets or run their offense throughout whatever new sets they didn't run.

Sparty and Izzo were completely dialed in on defense. Pike will have to fix the offensive sets or go beyond whatever has been running and working.

Move onto Ohio State and correct the mistakes. Ohio State lost by 17 to Minnesota last week....is that what you expect them to do on Saturday at the RAC....their game at Penn State on Wednesday was postponed for covid19 either with them or Penn State. I assume they're going to play Saturday but don't overreact to this insanity that MSU was suddenly a bad team based on 2 games. Maybe RU came in overconfident watching those two games on tape...in any event, lesson learned and RU is still a Top 20 program....and despite many basketball fans trying to tell me MSU was done or wasn't a NCAA tournament team, nothing could be more wrong. RU played bad, but there’s no panic on my part, just strange and irrational fans believing Sparty was done based on 2 bad losses. RU now has 2 bad looking losses too....so I guess having 2 to 4 bad losses is the new panic button for fanbases.....

Welcome to the B1G folks, when you play a good or elite coaching staff almost every night and where the players on the other end of the court, are all able to beat you, if you don't play well.

NJ Hawk has it absolutely right. What a massive, misguided over-reaction. If things aren’t going 100% according to plan, the negativity on this board is suffocating. It’s a LONG season, this happens to EVERY team. Don't know or care whether that means top 10, top 25, whatever....we are a very good team, a tournament team, and the turnaround has been remarkable. I’m enjoying it, and life is too short to dwell on this negativity.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

When I saw Michigan State play earlier this season I commented that they lacked a really solid point guard --they still do. And they don't have the physical presence at center like they had last year. This is a good MSU team but far from great and will be lucky to win more than half their Big Ten games.

The difference the last 2 guys......Henry and a commitment to defend (brought on my lineup/rotation changes).

Still see a 9-11 B1G team

 

[bac2therac]

I want to laugh at the lengthy list of bad posts here, without any mention of what the stark reality is.....Michigan State has better players AND RU and it's entire staff decided to run it's offense into a team with better athletes in half court.

Bac....your recap is overwhelming bad, irrational and frankly, you and a bunch of fans saw Michigan State get beat in transition, miss a bunch of shots at Northwestern and Minnesota and immediately decided that those 2 games was the new normal of Michigan State.

You can only be so wrong. I don't have the time and energy to explain that Tom Izzo and Michigan State have done this to elite, good and a lot of teams in between on their own court. And yes, while Cassius Winston and Xavier Tillman moved on to the next level, many fans were fooled by the Northwestern and Minnesota games, thinking MSU would be somehow a sub .500 team.

They have 4* players or higher at almost every position and if it's not a 4* player, it a player specifically designed for the role in their system on either offense or defense. It's not a great MSU team that just overwhelmed teams with shooting and sheer power at the basket. But it's terrifying to see everyone saying this is a bunch of reasons all that are RUs fault....suddenly Caleb, a player we clearly need for the next 2 months, is the problem....or whatever else others mentioned here about minutes being distributed.....??

Here is the game summary for you and everyone else. RU does not have player for player the ability or athletic ability to decide to put their head down, take off with the ball and try to beat a Tom Izzo led defense, when they are already set on defense in the half court.

Steve Pikiell and the staff have now been scouted....and scouted again....and scouted some more as a ranked opponent....teams now know exactly what you run on offense and when teams are prepared, desperate and have success stopping what you want to run, it is up to the staff not the players to place new items, new plays run and RU for the 1st time, was forced to run it's half court offense for 40 minutes. And when the defense was there to take away the 1st or 2nd shot that was usually there against Cuse, Illinois, Ohio State or Iowa, the team needed to continue to run it's offense.

What you saw was a bunch of screens that were prepared for. And Pike needs to go back into the film room, into the breakdowns and convince this team that it has to actually run it's offense for all 25 or 20 seconds once they get across half court.

So when the team didn't see any success running their offense because Sparty was VERY prepared, the players knew it and decided to pressure the defense and had a LOT of success....RU forced so many turnovers but then panicked because they weren't having half court success and tried to make crazy down court passes to get a quick layup and got a couple, but either then went 1 on 2 or had others going faster to try and beat the defense....

When you have played a game like this, it happens......But it wasn't at Nebraska or at some other team that doesn't play tough defense. MSU smothered everything in half court and it is up to the staff, to break down the film, correct the mistakes and to change their sets or run their offense throughout whatever new sets they didn't run.

Sparty and Izzo were completely dialed in on defense. Pike will have to fix the offensive sets or go beyond whatever has been running and working.

Move onto Ohio State and correct the mistakes. Ohio State lost by 17 to Minnesota last week....is that what you expect them to do on Saturday at the RAC....their game at Penn State on Wednesday was postponed for covid19 either with them or Penn State. I assume they're going to play Saturday but don't overreact to this insanity that MSU was suddenly a bad team based on 2 games. Maybe RU came in overconfident watching those two games on tape...in any event, lesson learned and RU is still a Top 20 program....and despite many basketball fans trying to tell me MSU was done or wasn't a NCAA tournament team, nothing could be more wrong. RU played bad, but there’s no panic on my part, just strange and irrational fans believing Sparty was done based on 2 bad losses. RU now has 2 bad looking losses too....so I guess having 2 to 4 bad losses is the new panic button for fanbases.....

Welcome to the B1G folks, when you play a good or elite coaching staff almost every night and where the players on the other end of the court, are all able to beat you, if you don't play well.

Hawk

Its not an overreaction, last night happened and it was ugly and the way the team quit and hung their heads was extremely disappointing. Look these games happen and teams bounce back, your examples prove that. However now I think this game...and more notably the last 4 games which consist of 3 losses now bring up more questions than answers about the team. I gave them a pass for Ohio State at the time because of the circumstances, I loved the bounce back vs Purdue with grittiness despite injury. The Iowa loss was not disappointing and could have gone either way. Last night an opportunity for another bounceback brought about the worst program performance n 3 years. Now it makes the OSU collapse a bit less forgiving. Two of those in 4 games I start to get concerned. The reality is the pressure is now on to win games. Ohio State is a must win. Penn State is a must win. The league isnt forgiving and you know very well that losses can easily be strung together if you do not shake off games like last night.

The bounceback opportunity is there. Beat OSU and PSU and the program will have staved off adversity and a major swoon and put them back in position for a good finish in league. So my thread was not writing off this team at all. I know they can play better and I do believe they are better than Michigan State. It seems like you are getting in awe of the script Sparty. I think its an okay Izzo team that will likely make the NCAA tourney but its not the type that should be beating an evolved and experienced RU team by 20 plus points.

From the absolute tip this had disaster written all over it and it never got better. Players got selfish and did not work as a team. When you starting center cannot even make a point blank shot and hits underneath the rim on a gimme and then goes 0-7 on free throw shooting, that is an abomination. That performance was repeated by every single player who saw significant minutes.

 

[richthedentist]

the last Mulcahy miss came AFTER the 11 minute timeout which makes me think Pike WAS all for Mulcahy and those shots...just terrible coaching IMO

Pike needs to define Caleb's roll and he is failing, its not just plugging in for Geo or Tez because Caleb has no shot right now and brings nothing on offense

What he should concentrate on is defense and passing where he can help the team

For some reason and the same thing last year he just loves Mulcahy and keeps him in the game way too much he doesn't bring a whole lot on the offensive side and forget defense he is too slow;
As for Caleb not sure why he has gotten so many minutes so soon he has not made a basket yet

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

One lesson from this game is that RU has to learn to play as well with the target on their back as they do with the chip on their shoulder. RU isn't going to sneak up on teams anymore. They're going to get that little extra effort from each opponent. If they're not ready to play, they will get beaten.

Another lesson echoes what an earlier poster said. RU is being thoroughly scouted. Things that came easy early in the season are going to be harder to do now. This will make execution, consistency, and fundamentals even more important.

 

[pawildcat_rivals209725]

I want to laugh at the lengthy list of bad posts here, without any mention of what the stark reality is.....Michigan State has better players AND RU and it's entire staff decided to run it's offense into a team with better athletes in half court.

Bac....your recap is overwhelming bad, irrational and frankly, you and a bunch of fans saw Michigan State get beat in transition, miss a bunch of shots at Northwestern and Minnesota and immediately decided that those 2 games was the new normal of Michigan State.

You can only be so wrong. I don't have the time and energy to explain that Tom Izzo and Michigan State have done this to elite, good and a lot of teams in between on their own court. And yes, while Cassius Winston and Xavier Tillman moved on to the next level, many fans were fooled by the Northwestern and Minnesota games, thinking MSU would be somehow a sub .500 team.

They have 4* players or higher at almost every position and if it's not a 4* player, it a player specifically designed for the role in their system on either offense or defense. It's not a great MSU team that just overwhelmed teams with shooting and sheer power at the basket. But it's terrifying to see everyone saying this is a bunch of reasons all that are RUs fault....suddenly Caleb, a player we clearly need for the next 2 months, is the problem....or whatever else others mentioned here about minutes being distributed.....??

Here is the game summary for you and everyone else. RU does not have player for player the ability or athletic ability to decide to put their head down, take off with the ball and try to beat a Tom Izzo led defense, when they are already set on defense in the half court.

Steve Pikiell and the staff have now been scouted....and scouted again....and scouted some more as a ranked opponent....teams now know exactly what you run on offense and when teams are prepared, desperate and have success stopping what you want to run, it is up to the staff not the players to place new items, new plays run and RU for the 1st time, was forced to run it's half court offense for 40 minutes. And when the defense was there to take away the 1st or 2nd shot that was usually there against Cuse, Illinois, Ohio State or Iowa, the team needed to continue to run it's offense.

What you saw was a bunch of screens that were prepared for. And Pike needs to go back into the film room, into the breakdowns and convince this team that it has to actually run it's offense for all 25 or 20 seconds once they get across half court.

So when the team didn't see any success running their offense because Sparty was VERY prepared, the players knew it and decided to pressure the defense and had a LOT of success....RU forced so many turnovers but then panicked because they weren't having half court success and tried to make crazy down court passes to get a quick layup and got a couple, but either then went 1 on 2 or had others going faster to try and beat the defense....

When you have played a game like this, it happens......But it wasn't at Nebraska or at some other team that doesn't play tough defense. MSU smothered everything in half court and it is up to the staff, to break down the film, correct the mistakes and to change their sets or run their offense throughout whatever new sets they didn't run.

Sparty and Izzo were completely dialed in on defense. Pike will have to fix the offensive sets or go beyond whatever has been running and working.

Move onto Ohio State and correct the mistakes. Ohio State lost by 17 to Minnesota last week....is that what you expect them to do on Saturday at the RAC....their game at Penn State on Wednesday was postponed for covid19 either with them or Penn State. I assume they're going to play Saturday but don't overreact to this insanity that MSU was suddenly a bad team based on 2 games. Maybe RU came in overconfident watching those two games on tape...in any event, lesson learned and RU is still a Top 20 program....and despite many basketball fans trying to tell me MSU was done or wasn't a NCAA tournament team, nothing could be more wrong. RU played bad, but there’s no panic on my part, just strange and irrational fans believing Sparty was done based on 2 bad losses. RU now has 2 bad looking losses too....so I guess having 2 to 4 bad losses is the new panic button for fanbases.....

Welcome to the B1G folks, when you play a good or elite coaching staff almost every night and where the players on the other end of the court, are all able to beat you, if you don't play well.

Good post. This has always been a great coaches' league, going back decades. When the B1G was going well in the '70s and '80s, they were led by some great coaches such as Knight at Indiana and Gene Keady at Purdue (what a rivalry that was). Dr. Tom Davis at Iowa couldn't get his team to the Final Four, but his run-and-press style produced good teams and was fun to watch. Jud Heathcote at MSU had the Magic Johnson team. Lou Henson at Illinois wasn't a great game coach, but he could recruit and had some fun, athletic teams such as the '89 "Flyin' Illini." Michigan contended often and won the national title in '89.

But then a lot of those coaches got old, left or were replaced, and the league went into a funk in the '90s. Unfortunately, that coincided with the rise for several years of the Big East, the advent of Coach K at Duke, and an explosion in televised games by ESPN. As Coach K and some of the other ACC teams gutted the B1G in the '90s and into the 21st century, the myth of the invincible ACC was born. The narrative was boosted by ACC-friendly announcers such as Billy Packer and "Duke" Vitale, and the hype and prime TV spots built the ACC, which had always been a good BB league, into what was a truly formidable league. Meanwhile West Coast basketball, televised at 10 or 11 p.m. in the East, faded into oblivion. That guy at Gonzaga amazes me with the talent he attracts up there.

But finally the B1G got its act back together as coaches such as Izzo, Bo Ryan, Matt Painter, and John Beilein got their leagues under them and started producing continuous winners. Ryan, in particular, did an amazing job at Wisky, and Greg Gard has proven to be a decent replacement. Although the league hasn't been able to break through with a national championship in recent years, it's back to being a tough coaches league with great fan support (leading the nation in attendance for multiple years now). The last couple of years have probably been the best since the '70s-'80s era. And the uptick in the Rutgers program is helping with the renaissance.

 

[nukem]

This team was beat before they even stepped off the bus. You could tell, like BAC said, in the first 2 minutes of the game that this team didn't have the right mindset to compete in this game. I don't agree with BAC that this was about awe of MSU though. This was a team that wasn't mentally or physically ready to compete at the level necessary to win at the B1G level. I don't believe it had anything to do with the name on the jersey. That was a team that flew to Michigan with no desire to win that game. And it's been a long time where there was no fight in this Rutgers team. We've been bad before, but we've fought. That's on both the coaches and players.

I'm not quite sure what's going on with this team right now. But what I know is that the identity of Pikiell's teams have started on the defensive end and extended to being hard nosed on the boards. We are worse in these 2 areas this year compared to last year. We are also somehow worse at FT shooting this year, which is unbelievable. How can Ron Harper shoot FT's at a 58%??

This team is at a crossroads. We are at best, right now, a middle of the pack B1G team. We are 3-3 in conference. We really have 1 win over a supposed top echelon team in conference. This team has to decide whether they are going to go back and play like a Pikiell led team. Go back to fighting and clawing for every single possession in the game. Or are they going to go missing for minutes and stretches of games which ultimately prove to be the demise of each game.

The mindset of this team is off. Can the coaches and players straighten things out? That to me is the most important thing moving forward.

 

[anon_xekqhstck0ygt]

not that I'm an expert, but I'm with you....

and in response to Hawk, I'm one who mentioned Caleb by name, he's getting 20+ minutes his second game back. I LOVE CM, but I just think he needs to be slowly worked in. Don't think that's off base or critical of the player.

Hawk

Its not an overreaction, last night happened and it was ugly and the way the team quit and hung their heads was extremely disappointing. Look these games happen and teams bounce back, your examples prove that. However now I think this game...and more notably the last 4 games which consist of 3 losses now bring up more questions than answers about the team. I gave them a pass for Ohio State at the time because of the circumstances, I loved the bounce back vs Purdue with grittiness despite injury. The Iowa loss was not disappointing and could have gone either way. Last night an opportunity for another bounceback brought about the worst program performance n 3 years. Now it makes the OSU collapse a bit less forgiving. Two of those in 4 games I start to get concerned. The reality is the pressure is now on to win games. Ohio State is a must win. Penn State is a must win. The league isnt forgiving and you know very well that losses can easily be strung together if you do not shake off games like last night.

The bounceback opportunity is there. Beat OSU and PSU and the program will have staved off adversity and a major swoon and put them back in position for a good finish in league. So my thread was not writing off this team at all. I know they can play better and I do believe they are better than Michigan State. It seems like you are getting in awe of the script Sparty. I think its an okay Izzo team that will likely make the NCAA tourney but its not the type that should be beating an evolved and experienced RU team by 20 plus points.

From the absolute tip this had disaster written all over it and it never got better. Players got selfish and did not work as a team. When you starting center cannot even make a point blank shot and hits underneath the rim on a gimme and then goes 0-7 on free throw shooting, that is an abomination. That performance was repeated by every single player who saw significant minutes.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Some of you guys are just nuts. The bar wasn’t that high, but Caleb was easily one of the best 5 players yesterday when the game mattered. That is why he played 22 minutes which was still less than any of the starters.

if you truly believe he hurt us on offense in a game where we managed only 45 points including 5 points in garbage time, you really need to look at the play by play. He only attempted 2 shots during non-garbage time. Check out those attempts - one was a missed 3 that resulted in a rare MJ put back. That shot did not hurt us. The other was a blocked lay up on a possession following his own steal. Michigan State secured the rebound but we ended up taking it back before they set up their offense for an RHJ basket.

He also had 2 other steals that resulted in missed transition lay ups by Montez and Young. Shots they normally make. Why is that Caleb’s fault? He had a nice assist to Geo for a 3 and made the 2 FT attempts.

His one turnover did not even result in points the other way - in fact he hustled back and secured the rebound on the miss.
Finally - he had as many or more rebounds than everyone on the team except MJ despite playing less minutes.

I’m not saying he was great. Far from it but I don’t see who you could say should’ve been in there instead of him. He played the best out of Pike’s options to warrant the 22 minutes he was given.

 

[Scarlet Blind_rivals]

Here's a good stat to sum things up.
MSU has NINE consensus top 100 players on their roster.
Hauser So, Watts So, Brown Jr, Langford Sr., Hall So., Loyer Jr, Haggard Fr, Bingham Jr., and Sissoko Fr.
Their leading scorer is Aaron Henry, Jr. is a top150.

We have 1, and he is out with a knee sprain.
Michigan State is bad how?
You saw how bad Golden St was without Curry and Thompson or any team losing their top 2 scorers, there is an adjustment period to figure roles out on a team no matter how talented you are.

 

[JonathanAlan]

Hawk

Its not an overreaction, last night happened and it was ugly and the way the team quit and hung their heads was extremely disappointing. Look these games happen and teams bounce back, your examples prove that. However now I think this game...and more notably the last 4 games which consist of 3 losses now bring up more questions than answers about the team. I gave them a pass for Ohio State at the time because of the circumstances, I loved the bounce back vs Purdue with grittiness despite injury. The Iowa loss was not disappointing and could have gone either way. Last night an opportunity for another bounceback brought about the worst program performance n 3 years. Now it makes the OSU collapse a bit less forgiving. Two of those in 4 games I start to get concerned. The reality is the pressure is now on to win games. Ohio State is a must win. Penn State is a must win. The league isnt forgiving and you know very well that losses can easily be strung together if you do not shake off games like last night.

The bounceback opportunity is there. Beat OSU and PSU and the program will have staved off adversity and a major swoon and put them back in position for a good finish in league. So my thread was not writing off this team at all. I know they can play better and I do believe they are better than Michigan State. It seems like you are getting in awe of the script Sparty. I think its an okay Izzo team that will likely make the NCAA tourney but its not the type that should be beating an evolved and experienced RU team by 20 plus points.

From the absolute tip this had disaster written all over it and it never got better. Players got selfish and did not work as a team. When you starting center cannot even make a point blank shot and hits underneath the rim on a gimme and then goes 0-7 on free throw shooting, that is an abomination. That performance was repeated by every single player who saw significant minutes.

I agree with much of your analysis. But for some reason I dreaded this game from the get-go because MSU was 0-3 in the conference , at home , and with Izzo as head coach and there was no way they wouldn't be up for this game. Their defensive effort was monumentally better than previous games. That's not an excuse for the Rutgers performance because they must have anticipated this . Nevertheless it's a fact.

 

[bac2therac]

This team was beat before they even stepped off the bus. You could tell, like BAC said, in the first 2 minutes of the game that this team didn't have the right mindset to compete in this game. I don't agree with BAC that this was about awe of MSU though. This was a team that wasn't mentally or physically ready to compete at the level necessary to win at the B1G level. I don't believe it had anything to do with the name on the jersey. That was a team that flew to Michigan with no desire to win that game. And it's been a long time where there was no fight in this Rutgers team. We've been bad before, but we've fought. That's on both the coaches and players.

I'm not quite sure what's going on with this team right now. But what I know is that the identity of Pikiell's teams have started on the defensive end and extended to being hard nosed on the boards. We are worse in these 2 areas this year compared to last year. We are also somehow worse at FT shooting this year, which is unbelievable. How can Ron Harper shoot FT's at a 58%??

This team is at a crossroads. We are at best, right now, a middle of the pack B1G team. We are 3-3 in conference. We really have 1 win over a supposed top echelon team in conference. This team has to decide whether they are going to go back and play like a Pikiell led team. Go back to fighting and clawing for every single possession in the game. Or are they going to go missing for minutes and stretches of games which ultimately prove to be the demise of each game.

The mindset of this team is off. Can the coaches and players straighten things out? That to me is the most important thing moving forward.

good post