True, but I like our chances.
Now is not the time to be thinking like the old times.. Winning is a mindset.
12-0 MFers!
And rub it in Iowas' not so pretty face.
Frost on the RBs
- Thread starter inWV
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Now is not the time to be thinking like the old times.. Winning is a mindset.
12-0 MFers!
And rub it in Iowas' not so pretty face.
Right, some have this outlook that since we were so horrific under Smilin Mike that we had zero talent. You are right we had top 25 classes most years. Talent was not the issue it was lack of conditioning and development. Not saying we will go out and win a NC with the current talent. We damn sure have enough to win the West and get to 8 or 9 wins pretty easily.
Its all that and attitude,countenance,confidence.
We rolled over going back a long time ago.
No more paper tigers
We rolled over going back a long time ago.
No more paper tigers
You came WAAAY late to this conversation... salts mistakenly said our talent was equal to all the teams in the B1G, when he meant to say B1G West. If he said West from the start like he intended, this thread would be a page shorter. Not blaming salts, just explaining the misunderstanding.
My take on the whole talent debate is that the board routinely goes overboard with the "woe is me" victim schtick when we we realize we don't get the same kind of talent a Michigan or OSU does. Then it spirals down into we don't get the same kind of talent that Wisky or Iowa does, or even a Purdue or Indiana. Its ridiculous.
Nebraska has consistently recruited at a level that is in the 2nd tier of teams in the B1G, whether we were a 9 win team, or a 4 win team. We've lost plenty of games for plenty of reasons, but we've been behind in development most consistently. When Pelini was winning 9 games, he wasn't recruiting well enough to beat the top teams sure, but he also wasn't developing enough depth to be a team that could outwork/out effort the top teams either. And we'd get glaring holes at spots where we couldn't afford to have any. Riley and other coaches speak for themselves at the development game.
That's why its been embarrasing to lose to teams like Wisky and Iowa routinely, we generally out recruit them, but can't get out of our own way in terms of beating them on the field. They come in with 2 deeps of less heralded players that put in the time, work the system, and walk out with a win. Assuming development were equal, we should be winning a 2-1 clip against them.
Nebraska has consistently recruited at a level that is in the 2nd tier of teams in the B1G, whether we were a 9 win team, or a 4 win team. We've lost plenty of games for plenty of reasons, but we've been behind in development most consistently. When Pelini was winning 9 games, he wasn't recruiting well enough to beat the top teams sure, but he also wasn't developing enough depth to be a team that could outwork/out effort the top teams either. And we'd get glaring holes at spots where we couldn't afford to have any. Riley and other coaches speak for themselves at the development game.
That's why its been embarrasing to lose to teams like Wisky and Iowa routinely, we generally out recruit them, but can't get out of our own way in terms of beating them on the field. They come in with 2 deeps of less heralded players that put in the time, work the system, and walk out with a win. Assuming development were equal, we should be winning a 2-1 clip against them.
This. Since 2014, NU's Rivals rankings have been (overall/teams that are in the West)
2019 - 3/1, 2018 - 3/1, 2017 - 5/1, 2016 - 5/1, 2015 - 4/1,2014 - 5/1
Prior to that, NU's overall ranking was 3, 3, and 2 in the conference. That is consistent strong talent that should be more than enough to compete for division titles. Based upon the quality of recruiting, NU should have been a yearly contender to appear in the B1G title game, not posting 3 losing seasons out of the last 4 and getting boat raced by Iowa.
We may not have the most talent on offense, but Frost knows how to get the most out of that talent. We'll have an offense that is at or near the top of the conference.
If we could do the same on defense, we could have a very good defense as well. We've recruited at about the same level on both sides of the ball so you can't tell me it's talent that's causing our offense to make a ton of improvements while the defense continues to get run over by teams like Iowa.
If we could do the same on defense, we could have a very good defense as well. We've recruited at about the same level on both sides of the ball so you can't tell me it's talent that's causing our offense to make a ton of improvements while the defense continues to get run over by teams like Iowa.
Yorts post on % of blue chips hits a chord. Then look at his follow up on how long they stayed or how well they did. So if it isnt lack of recruiting it is lack of development or lack or S&C. It's really all three.
When I watch games and I do watch for detail, I don't just follow the ball, that comes from watching HS film until your eyes pop out, it is clear to see the lack of overall athletes. The post season awards and NFL draft seem to confirm that. How bad has it become where we are down to having a second teamer or honorable mention.
We have to recruit better, keep them and develop them.
When I watch games and I do watch for detail, I don't just follow the ball, that comes from watching HS film until your eyes pop out, it is clear to see the lack of overall athletes. The post season awards and NFL draft seem to confirm that. How bad has it become where we are down to having a second teamer or honorable mention.
We have to recruit better, keep them and develop them.
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People talk about development, and rightfully so. But don’t forget our previous 3 coaches were woefully lacking in gameplanning, creativity, making necessary adjustments and just were overall completely in over their heads when facing actual football coaches on game day.
The x’s and o’s matter as much or more than the Jimmy’s and Joe’s.
You must be skimming over most of the posts. It was pointing out I was talking about talent in the West. Not the entire BIG 10...although there are 14 teams in the BIG 10 and only 3 of them are clearly better in talent. Every team outside OSU, Michigan and PSU we are equal to or on par with...at LEAST. But no, i was meaning in the west my man...GBR
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And that’s my main point. If we had better coaching, better player development and better S&C we would have been a completely different team over the past 4-5 years. We have recruited top 15-25 the past almost decade. We do have some talent...we just didn’t have the coaching to develop the players, PERIOD. And I fully believe Frost, Walters and Chin are great in player development. Duvall is one of the best in the business at S&C and so on... things are about to change in a hurry.
So what was the difference between 1973-1992 (195-46-3 80% win %) Tom Osborne and 1993-1997 (60-3 95% win pct) Tom Osborne?
I’ll give you a clue it was the Jimmys and the Joes. The teams the last 5 years were just simply more athletic. Osborne didn’t change, the strength and conditioning coach was a constant, the offense was tweaked a bit too but the athletic defense was the difference.
I know people like to remember Nebraska being the 1993-1997 teams that steam rolled most opponents. But the fact is that for most of the years between 1973 and 1992 (16 of 18) we were an 9 or 10 win team, that didn’t win a lot of the games we played when the opponent was more athletic and not intimidated by Nebraska. The difference between Nebraska 1973-1992 and Nebraska 2008-2014 was the likability of the coach and a better winning % against teams ranked 10-25.
Don’t get it twisted, Osborne is a legend and a great coach and Pelini is a clown but win production wise, they were similar for most of their careers.
You're clearly not taking into account that Nebraska in that era played less games per season than Bo did, and didn't play 1aa teams nor as many cream puffs. 9-10 wins in an 11 game season is much more impressive than 8-9-10 in a 12 game season with a last second win against mcneese state.
This was one of my biggest pet peeves with bo “9 wins like tom” people. The schedules weren't similar.
And while 1993-1997 were clearly years of elite dominance, anyone who thinks Bos teams measured up to the Oz teams of previous years is trying wayyyy to hard or didn't actually watch.
As for the talent point, you are correct, but Id add the defensive switch in scheme which enabled more speed and athleticism on the field. You cant just ignore that.
But yes to win a NC Nebraska needs more talent than we have had.
I was about to reply with something similar to the bold part. Chicken and egg situation with respect to X's and O's and Jimmy's and Joe's to a large degree, but changing the defensive scheme was the turning point that allowed us to recruit the players to match up with and beat the elite teams.
The offense everyone remembers Osborne for running was only tweaked a bit, the plays that Turner Gill ran and Tommie Frazier ran were very very similar.
We need to recruit better players, not just better talent. The saying hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard is all about our past.
Now, when talent is working hard, and each guy is, wins come, with wins comes better talent in guys that are better players.
SF recruits guys who play several sports, he knows guys who're playing that much sports loves sports activities, so, mindset, or, better player right there.
It's easier to coach winners,another trait SF looks at. No wasting time getting his team going, like he said, he really likes this years team, watching them this summer playing war daddy in the weight room.
Finally,toughness.
They started showing it late last year, forget everything else, we have a game to win.
Hearing 'we just ran out of time' speaks to this, all gas, no brakes.
Instead of just having your starters working, while the others play games on the sidelines, everyones involved,having several stations to work in, just like under TO, and really hasnt been seen since TO's days until this staff.
SF wants those walkons, he knows they surprise every now and then, he has work for them to do,they too are a major part of the team.
Now, when talent is working hard, and each guy is, wins come, with wins comes better talent in guys that are better players.
SF recruits guys who play several sports, he knows guys who're playing that much sports loves sports activities, so, mindset, or, better player right there.
It's easier to coach winners,another trait SF looks at. No wasting time getting his team going, like he said, he really likes this years team, watching them this summer playing war daddy in the weight room.
Finally,toughness.
They started showing it late last year, forget everything else, we have a game to win.
Hearing 'we just ran out of time' speaks to this, all gas, no brakes.
Instead of just having your starters working, while the others play games on the sidelines, everyones involved,having several stations to work in, just like under TO, and really hasnt been seen since TO's days until this staff.
SF wants those walkons, he knows they surprise every now and then, he has work for them to do,they too are a major part of the team.
Nah, I read it all. I'm just giving you crap since I missed out on it before.
What? If you have a point, articulate it. I don't have the energy to deal with your passive aggressive attempt to make a point.
I get that people didn't like certain calls or offensive approaches or whatever, Langsdorf isn't creative enough in the run game or what not....but in the end, there were a lot of seasons where development was really a defining reason we couldn't do much of anything.
How do you creative your way out of not having a Center? I mean really? We had glaring holes across position groups for a long long time that weren't easily fixable by making 2nd half adjustments or just having a wiley coach scheme his way out of it.
How do you creative your way out of not having a Center? I mean really? We had glaring holes across position groups for a long long time that weren't easily fixable by making 2nd half adjustments or just having a wiley coach scheme his way out of it.
Coaching, it turns out, is more involved than just recruiting. Tweaking an offense to fit your players is the key to winning games. X’s and O’s > jimmys and Joe’s. Teams repeatedly in the top 20 in recruiting are not repeatedly in the top 20 at the end of the year (USC, FSU, etc).
Sorry to force you to expell more brain power than you’re used to. I know it must be very hard for you considering you’ve convinced yourself Pelini and Osborne belong in the same stratosphere from a coaching and results perspective.
First of all I said the years I mentioned for Osborne are very similar to every Pelini year. They lost 2 or 3 games, usually against a more talented team. That is it.
Secondly, what you are attempting to disprove was not nor has it ever been argued by me.
The conclusion of the Bluechip theory is not that every team that recruits well will win a national title. It says that in order to win a national title, you have to recruit well.
Of course coaching factors into the equation. But coaching alone hasn't won titles in the past 20 to 25 years. But there is at least one instance Auburn under Chizek, where a below average coach won a title because he had great players.
Not everyone that buys a lottery ticket wins the lottery. But you can’t win the lottery unless you buy a ticket. See how that works?
Completely agree! I remember looking this up a couple of years ago. In the last 25 years there hasn't been a team that has won the national championship without at least one top ten recruiting class in the previous 5 years. Coaching is vitally important but you are simply not winning a national championship without the jimmy's and the joe's.
Having said all of that I firmly believe that under this coaching staff Nebraska will get there. They will have to follow the Dabo Swinney model and that is win games and the recruits will follow.
Recruiting rankings and S&C don’t mean much when you lead the conference in attrition by an enormous margin.
Attrition: 2013-2018 Recruiting Classes
Tre'vell Dixon
Dwayne Johnson
Dimarya Nixon
Drake Martinez
Boaz Joseph
Matt Finnin
Earnest Suttles
Zach Hannon
Earnest Suttles
Kevin Gladney
Greg Hart
Courtney Love
AJ Bush
Deandre Wills
Glen Irons
Jariah Tolbert
Joe Keel
Jaevon Walton
Lorenzo Stewart
Monte Harrison
Zach Darlington
Trey Mosley
JOradan Stevenson
Adrianne Talon
Lavon Alston
Jalin Barnett
Matt Snyder
Michael Decker
David Englehaupt
Trey Bryant
Derrion Grim
Greg Simmons
Quayshon Alexander
Patrick O'Brien
Brian Brokop
Tyjon Lindsey
Andrew Ward
Elijah Blades
Deionte Watts
Guy Thomas
Ben Miles
Avery Roberts
Tristan Gebbia
Willie Hampton
Keyshawn Johnson
Willy Canty
Cam Jones
Domonic Watt
Greg Bell
Will Jackson
Breon Dixon
Justin McGriff
C.J. Smith
Now compare that to the attrition at Northwestern, Wisconsin and Iowa.
When your 2017 senior class consists entirely of: Josh Kalu, Chris Jones (hurt), Marcus Newby, DPE, and David Knevel, and your competing against teams that have 12-14 contributing seniors, your at a serious disadvantage.
Almost 40% (53 out of 136) of the 2013-18 recruiting classes didn't stay, and that number could still go higher. Thats unheard of.
And that attrition will have an impact on this season, at some point.
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Two coaches in for years (plus lazy recruiting by the prior coach), with substantial roster turnover by the latter will do that. I suspect Frost feels much better about the roster today than he did a year ago. He will win more games with the players he now has. And in the next couple of years, he’ll get more players like those presently on the team.
All good points, and IMO the Big 8/12, especially Big 8, usually only boasted one or two other good teams. Recruiting, coaching, culture and S&C really do count. We are improving in all areas, but recruiting needs to pick up, I know we were 4-8 but Frost is getting all kinds of love from the media, so let's land some quality guys!
Yep, our defense has a long, long ways to go. But if our DLine can make a substantial upgrade.......that would help a lot!