Five in Five - What Might That Look Like?

[Wrestleknownothing]

While we wait for the D1 Cabinet I thought I would take a shot

5 in 5 - What Might That Look Like? | Wrestling.Guru

Last week the Division I Board of Directors directed the Division I Cabinet to advance a concept that would allow athletes five years of eligibility. Curren ...

wrestling.guru

 

[Poke90]

While we wait for the D1 Cabinet I thought I would take a shot

5 in 5 - What Might That Look Like? | Wrestling.Guru

Last week the Division I Board of Directors directed the Division I Cabinet to advance a concept that would allow athletes five years of eligibility. Curren ...

wrestling.guru

On your chart it is labeled freshman All-Americans and it says 2026 3 true freshmen and one other (assuming redshirt freshman) AAs. Did you mean to say national champions? Because it seems like 133lbs had 4 AA’s or possibly more.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

On your chart it is labeled freshman All-Americans and it says 2026 3 true freshmen and one other (assuming redshirt freshman) AAs. Did you mean to say national champions? Because it seems like 133lbs had 4 AA’s or possibly more.

Good catch. Yes, that is champs. I was looking at AAs, but then flipped it and forgot to change the title. I will fix that.

And I used Other because there is a lot of things in that category (missions, covid years, injuries, regular redshirts, Oly redshirts, grey shirts, and a few others). There are also multiples.

 

[rcsone1]

...my understanding is that you have five years to complete FOUR years of participation........................not an increase to five years of participation...

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

...my understanding is that you have five years to complete FOUR years of participation........................not an increase to five years of participation...

The D1 Council was instructed to work on a new rule where it would be 5 years of eligibility in 5 years starting with the earlier of HS graduation or 19. No redshirts.

 

[chasepollard]

I like the research.

But this is a BS swing at control. It’s for revenue sports and will pass because of that.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Old Number Nine]

Someone mentioned that this change would be perfect for a team with 6 freshman starters but doesn't it also push back PSU's upperclassmen drop off which would help our reaching #34?

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Someone mentioned that this change would be perfect for a team with 6 freshman starters but doesn't it also push back PSU's upperclassmen drop off which would help our reaching #34?

I think there is a lot of path dependency to these decisions.

I have heard some say that existing athletes will have the option to stay on the old rules or shift to the new. But running parallel systems of eligibility for up to 7 years seems crazy. But let's say they do that.

If you are an existing athlete who has not used a redshirt it probably makes sense to switch to the new as you will get an extra year of eligibility. The downside is if you get injured twice, or want to prepare for the Olympics, or sit out for two seasons for any reason, you would have been better off staying on the old rules.

For anyone who has already used a redshirt, greyshirt, Olympic shirt, hardship waiver (or will), etc. it makes sense to stick to the old rules to maximize remaining years of eligibility.

Then it becomes an optimization problem for each team. And a title may come down to how well the optimization was handled.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

I think there is a lot of path dependency to these decisions.

I have heard some say that existing athletes will have the option to stay on the old rules or shift to the new. But running parallel systems of eligibility for up to 7 years seems crazy. But let's say they do that.

If you are an existing athlete who has not used a redshirt it probably makes sense to switch to the new as you will get an extra year of eligibility. The downside is if you get injured twice, or want to prepare for the Olympics, or sit out for two seasons for any reason, you would have been better off staying on the old rules.

For anyone who has already used a redshirt, greyshirt, Olympic shirt, hardship waiver (or will), etc. it makes sense to stick to the old rules to maximize remaining years of eligibility.

Then it becomes an optimization problem for each team. And a title may come down to how well the optimization was handled.

Good info right there my man.

 

[ionel]

Someone mentioned that this change would be perfect for a team with 6 freshman starters but doesn't it also push back PSU's upperclassmen drop off which would help our reaching #34?

34?

 

[chasepollard]

I think there is a lot of path dependency to these decisions.

I have heard some say that existing athletes will have the option to stay on the old rules or shift to the new. But running parallel systems of eligibility for up to 7 years seems crazy. But let's say they do that.

If you are an existing athlete who has not used a redshirt it probably makes sense to switch to the new as you will get an extra year of eligibility. The downside is if you get injured twice, or want to prepare for the Olympics, or sit out for two seasons for any reason, you would have been better off staying on the old rules.

For anyone who has already used a redshirt, greyshirt, Olympic shirt, hardship waiver (or will), etc. it makes sense to stick to the old rules to maximize remaining years of eligibility.

Then it becomes an optimization problem for each team. And a title may come down to how well the optimization was handled.

What is your actual opinion of this?

Here is mine:

This is for Football and Basketball. The non-rev sports will be hurt by this as more Wrestlers will be on the move each year. It makes it hard to "love" individuals in an individual sport, as they will likely not compete at the same school for the entirety, which in turn creates a more apathetic fanbase. That in turn, can diminish fundraising efforts.

I believe it will hurt the lower level divisions as programs will continue to go away, only with more frequency.

It also hurts one of two types of Wrestling. For guys that want Olympic Gold, it will hurt the school they chose. I believe many will want to run out eligibility and then focus on senior level, which will hurt how competitive our USA team is.

Does there need to be "fixes?" Yes, but eligibility is at the bottom of the list IMO. Is there a better fix for this? Yes! Make requirements for OS and MS situations. Example, if you don't compete at qualifiers, you don't get an OS. For a MS, the NCAA could spend less money by an approval process for Doctors that are required to be the examining physician and guys don't get a MS unless the treatment protocol erases more than 6 weeks of Wrestling.

So my opinion of this, its BS and not good for our sport in any way that I can see. Its a damn good thing Brandon Weeden didn't have to abide by this rule.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

What is your actual opinion of this?

Here is mine:

This is for Football and Basketball. The non-rev sports will be hurt by this as more Wrestlers will be on the move each year. It makes it hard to "love" individuals in an individual sport, as they will likely not compete at the same school for the entirety, which in turn creates a more apathetic fanbase. That in turn, can diminish fundraising efforts.

I believe it will hurt the lower level divisions as programs will continue to go away, only with more frequency.

It also hurts one of two types of Wrestling. For guys that want Olympic Gold, it will hurt the school they chose. I believe many will want to run out eligibility and then focus on senior level, which will hurt how competitive our USA team is.

Does there need to be "fixes?" Yes, but eligibility is at the bottom of the list IMO. Is there a better fix for this? Yes! Make requirements for OS and MS situations. Example, if you don't compete at qualifiers, you don't get an OS. For a MS, the NCAA could spend less money by an approval process for Doctors that are required to be the examining physician and guys don't get a MS unless the treatment protocol erases more than 6 weeks of Wrestling.

So my opinion of this, its BS and not good for our sport in any way that I can see. Its a damn good thing Brandon Weeden didn't have to abide by this rule.

I agree this is driven by the football/basketball, and it is a one size fits all approach. That much is clear if they leave out the Olympic redshirt. I disagree that it will decrease fundraising. Free transfers, and the ineffectiveness of the CSC/NILGo make spending money more effective than ever. Just ask Indiana football. Fundraising will become even more emphasized than ever. And with the right pitch, it will become more effective. Of course, with the wrong pitch....

I disagree about hurting lower level teams. I think this has the potential to help them as logjams at top level teams cannot be resolved with various shirts. Instead of sitting a year, or two, at their top pick, a wrestler may expand their search and go somewhere else. There will still be teams saying if you sit a year you are not losing anything relative to prior to the rule change. But what you lose is optionality. If you volunteer to sit a year then get injured, you forfeit two years. And in a sport where every single person gets injured, that option has a lot of value. No sense giving it away for free.

I agree this has the potential to damage the Olympic program. There are not a lot of Kyle Snyders out there who can do both at the same time, and nail it. Depending on the timing, some may take a year off of folk, like happens now, and choose to only wrestle four collegiate seasons, or do what you said and end their college career early. Others will just delay their international aspirations.

I am a big fan of fixing the Olympic shirt rules. The AJ Ferrari version of the Olympic shirt violates the spirit of the rule, so it should also be made to violate the letter of the rule. Not sure what to do about hardship waivers.

 

[chasepollard]

I agree this is driven by the football/basketball, and it is a one size fits all approach. That much is clear if they leave out the Olympic redshirt. I disagree that it will decrease fundraising. Free transfers, and the ineffectiveness of the CSC/NILGo make spending money more effective than ever. Just ask Indiana football. Fundraising will become even more emphasized than ever. And with the right pitch, it will become more effective. Of course, with the wrong pitch....

I disagree about hurting lower level teams. I think this has the potential to help them as logjams at top level teams cannot be resolved with various shirts. Instead of sitting a year, or two, at their top pick, a wrestler may expand their search and go somewhere else. There will still be teams saying if you sit a year you are not losing anything relative to prior to the rule change. But what you lose is optionality. If you volunteer to sit a year then get injured, you forfeit two years. And in a sport where every single person gets injured, that option has a lot of value. No sense giving it away for free.

I agree this has the potential to damage the Olympic program. There are not a lot of Kyle Snyders out there who can do both at the same time, and nail it. Depending on the timing, some may take a year off of folk, like happens now, and choose to only wrestle four collegiate seasons, or do what you said and end their college career early. Others will just delay their international aspirations.

I am a big fan of fixing the Olympic shirt rules. The AJ Ferrari version of the Olympic shirt violates the spirit of the rule, so it should also be made to violate the letter of the rule. Not sure what to do about hardship waivers.

Good rebuttal for discussion. I hadn't thought about it actually bolstering rosters at lower levels, that is a very good point and I can get with that change.

I don't agree on the fundraising. Indiana football is a decent example, but I don't think it will help total fundraising efforts. It might be effective on guys that can afford to give up to and more than six figures, but it is going to damage the guys giving twenty and under. Programs that are made up of donations that jump into the seven figures from those "little" donors will see some crunch, maybe not? Also, AD's are going to further pirate the non-rev budgets to replicate Indiana/Texas Tech football.

Simply put, it's going to happen, but I really hope there is an army of legal beagles that get after this and get it fixed. If a situation is more damaging than helpful, you don't do it...IMO, it's more damaging for Wrestling than helpful.

 

[Old Number Nine]

34?

OK, 35... it was a rough night before