Expectations vs reality
- Thread starter Cawood86_rivals
- Start date
It seems Cal should redefine the nature of his coaching, not to mention
his relationship with the fans.
I never said you did anything wrong. You didn't. My post here was just coming from a personal point of view, not from a moderator's pov. Your post isn't breaking any rules. I don't moderate based on personal preferences. It's all good cawood.
We had a lot of luck in 2011 and 2014 to make the final four and we had some bad luck in 2017 and 2019 to miss the final four. If you replaced the outcomes in those years, these idiotic debates about Cal’s decline wouldn’t be happening. A lot of luck happens in the tournament and you just hope your coach can put you in a position to make a run. He’s done that every year except 1-2.
Now there are certain concerns I have with Cal’s brand, which is the same it’s been since he came in 2010. It’s hard to sustain the one and done, year over year turnover for perpetuity. This year’s roster construction shows he’s evolving. It looks like next year we are on the cusp of another super team, so perhaps we should relax on the ire until the results are in.
Now there are certain concerns I have with Cal’s brand, which is the same it’s been since he came in 2010. It’s hard to sustain the one and done, year over year turnover for perpetuity. This year’s roster construction shows he’s evolving. It looks like next year we are on the cusp of another super team, so perhaps we should relax on the ire until the results are in.
I guess I misunderstood. My mistake. ThanksI never said you did anything wrong. You didn't. My post here was just coming from a personal point of view, not from a moderator's pov. Your post isn't breaking any rules. I don't moderate based on personal preferences. It's all good cawood.
You are one of those that loved the Billy G days. You loved his recruiting 8th graders.
And one cant ignore the fact that the randomness of the NCAA tournament was not what it was when Rupp coached to what we see today. Honestly they all are very similar, minus Pitino.
Look at the drought for Championships between Rupp and Hall, 58-78
Hall to Pitino, 78-96
And Smith to Cal, 98-2012
Look I want UK to win every game, that's obviously the expectation, but the REALITY is its not going to happen that way, history shows it. And when expectations are not met, it doesn't have to turn into a blame game all the time, sometimes the other team is just better than you, which has been the case more often than not. I expect to be in the hunt and during Cals tenure I feel that is the case more often than not.
Been following the CATS for 60 years...no longer make expectations. Have yet this season to watch a game.
Good post. I'm not, and I don't think most are, that think UK should win it every year. That's just unrealistic.
I did expect another title by now. I don't think that is unrealistic considering the talent level Cal has had during his tenure. I do believe Cal is able if he can find that fire he had when he first arrived. That is my hope.
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Again, I think the level headed folks all realize that first 5 years was insane and no one could have expected to maintain THAT level of dominance. I think what has surprised many of us is the fact that it's been 7 years since we even got a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. That's really kind of hard to wrap your head around.
I think he has done mostly what I expected outside one more championship. I still think he has another couple final fours and a shot at a ship left in him.
I would feel so much better if things were spread out over his tenure . It’s the fact that the major success is so “ front end loaded” that makes me think something has changed and causes me to lose confidence in what future success he can have .
I just think to me it means things are more random then we would like to admit.
We could have easily missed final fours in 2011 and 2014 and we could have easily made final fours in 2017 and 2019. It's just the nature of the tournament and why the only thing that really matters ultimately in terms of Cal or whoever coaches at UK is to put us in the conversation as many years as possible. Naturally the more years we are considered a title contender, the more likely we will grab another 1 or 2 before Cal's tenure here is over.
In my opinion, the recent championship drought feel so bad because Cal failed to capitalize on having arguably the most talent of any other program during his tenure. Then on top of that, we had to watch Duke win it all in 2010 and 2015.
I would never want to go back to the Tubby or terrible BCG era, but those guys weren't bringing in top recruiting classes every season. So yeah... Expectations were down when it came to those teams but I expect better results now.
I would never want to go back to the Tubby or terrible BCG era, but those guys weren't bringing in top recruiting classes every season. So yeah... Expectations were down when it came to those teams but I expect better results now.
The fact that you have to point this out -- and the fact that it's still not enough for some people -- is why virtually everyone outside the state of Kentucky thinks UK basketball fans are a bunch of idiots.
I don't buy the Wisconsin thing. He looks worn out because he's been in job so long it's wearing on him.
Fans on here make a huge deal of that game, but I highly doubt Cal, either consciously or subconsciously, thinks about that game.
High stress jobs will do that to you.
UK basketball coaching job is THE Gold Standard for high stress jobs.
At some point for Cal, the money will no longer be worth the stress of trying to stay on top of your profession.
Cal looks like he has reached his zenith. If this team loses the number of games I think they are subject to losing, this season might be the one that breaks him.
Yeah, I mean even Cal had mentioned it several times. I'm sure he's surprised he's lasted this long.
Look at Cal at his presser in 2010. Then look at him now. It's definitely taken it's toll lol.
Look at Cal at his presser in 2010. Then look at him now. It's definitely taken it's toll lol.
Just objectively, the first five years were unrealistic to keep up, as some have pointed out.
My standards for a strong decade for UK are set at essentially the realistic upper limit for a fan of a UK/UNC level program - being a legit final four caliber team (essentially making elite 8) about half the time, sweet 16 is a given every year with rare exception, final four 2-3 times a decade, and you are very happy to win it all once a decade - twice would be extremely lucky and unusual.
So in other words, those couple low years have been too low since 2016. Nothing catastrophic, but it is frustrating.
On the flip side, expecting much more than the above (a number of posters) is the domain of people who can't put anything in context - some people think about sports in the way that a middle school girl imagines her wedding - they can only end up disappointed because the outcomes they expect comport with neither history nor logic. I've heard people talk about how (insert inferior school) has gotten 2 titles in a decade before, therefore that should be an expectation here, which is essentially to spit on the graves of all the great logicians of the past.
My standards for a strong decade for UK are set at essentially the realistic upper limit for a fan of a UK/UNC level program - being a legit final four caliber team (essentially making elite 8) about half the time, sweet 16 is a given every year with rare exception, final four 2-3 times a decade, and you are very happy to win it all once a decade - twice would be extremely lucky and unusual.
So in other words, those couple low years have been too low since 2016. Nothing catastrophic, but it is frustrating.
On the flip side, expecting much more than the above (a number of posters) is the domain of people who can't put anything in context - some people think about sports in the way that a middle school girl imagines her wedding - they can only end up disappointed because the outcomes they expect comport with neither history nor logic. I've heard people talk about how (insert inferior school) has gotten 2 titles in a decade before, therefore that should be an expectation here, which is essentially to spit on the graves of all the great logicians of the past.
Yeah I mean that's basically what the gripe is. 2017 and 2019 were good seasons. We were title contenders those seasons. 2020 was COVID shortened and who knows what would have happened.
It's essentially 2016, 2018 and last season. Especially 18 when the bracket even fell in our favor.
But 3 in the last 6 have been disappointing. And that is on Cal and unacceptable at a place like UK.
So you have the first half of Cal's tenure as overperforming and the last half as underperforming. So basically putting it all together you get as expected IMO.
It's essentially 2016, 2018 and last season. Especially 18 when the bracket even fell in our favor.
But 3 in the last 6 have been disappointing. And that is on Cal and unacceptable at a place like UK.
So you have the first half of Cal's tenure as overperforming and the last half as underperforming. So basically putting it all together you get as expected IMO.
I think this and the “he’s lost his fire’ criticism is overplayed.
He was still relatively young when he got here, but now he’s 62. That physical transition from 50 to 62 is not a good look for anyone. He looks fine for his age.
The same applies to his demeanor. Nobody has the same drive at 62 than they had at 50, and even if it’s close, there is a personality change associated with the maturation. My guess is calipari wants to win as much or more now as he ever has as he knows he’s only got a limited number of years left to establish his legacy.
College is cyclical, he still recruits at a high rate. We will get there again.
The OAD approach is all wrong when used in wholesale fashion. A blended approach makes more sense. Two OADs per year with veteran 3 and 4 year players. This would require coaching/work so that alone may disqualify Cal being that he is so over-paid and incapable. Wholesale OAD annually is a disaster and cannot be sustained to produce quality teams that can perform at a high levels. Low attendance at Rupp is a symptom of failure never seen in modern UK basketball and Cal cannot explain it away honestly. The state of this program is the direct result of this wholesale OAD approach. Has Cal ever left a job/program in an amiable way or rather left in turmoil? Is he still attacking the fans when he hears their protest and sees Rupp at half its capacity? Just asking.
Oh yeah I agree. I still think he has the same fire he had back then. I didn't mean that as he's wearing down or anything like that. Just that you notice a big difference. Much more than the normal aging IMO.
I think both are true tho. Cal is a machine when it comes to recruiting and I don't think that's stopped for decades now going back to Umass and Memphis. At some point tho, i'd imagine it does take a toll.
I agree with this.
A lot of people get upset when we lose guys to the NBA year in and year out but it could also be a benefit the year after we go 9-16 to completely start over. I mean I hate to say it's addition by subtraction but if we are being honest with ourselves, sometimes it is.
The idiots that bash Cal and want him gone....tell me who we could get that would be better. ......careful what you wish for, we could be Indiana
With fair officiating in 2015 and 2017, Cal could/should have 3 titles and 1 runners-up in his 12 years. I am certainly no "the refs beat us" fan but the missed shot clock violation versus Wisconsin changed the game. It was egregious enough the rule was changed the next season.
2017 versus UNC was a travesty.
2017 versus UNC was a travesty.
Lets do it this way:
If you look at today's college basketball, meaning, this era, do you see UK as the top program?
Again, not historically, I'm talking about this era.
For me, the answer is simple… NO. In fact, I don't even know if UK is top 5. Villanova, duke, uNC, KU, Gonzaga and maybe even Baylor are ahead of us. If they weren't before 9-17, they are now.
It’s not just about titles and final fours, it's about the programs that have been consistently in the top 5 or 10. UK has not been. We’re always too young and we always have a new roster, so we end up taking more losses than a top program should.
As far as people bringing up gaps in titles and final fours, just stop it, nothing is equal. Cal gets paid a lot more, he has a private jet, he has had a thousand times the talent and he gets the benefit of using UK as a brand that those other coaches helped build.
Cal is also in an era where he has Nike and AAU that are huge advantages in recruiting and the quality of player that comes through the door. I'm not sure these facts have come up in the past, did Tubby and RP have AAU ball to go to for recruiting? Nike?
We can argue all day about how many FF's and titles Cal has, but even the biggest Cal fan (MD) has to admit that he should have more titles and final fours. They also have to admit that his in-game coaching has cost us a title or two.
If you look at today's college basketball, meaning, this era, do you see UK as the top program?
Again, not historically, I'm talking about this era.
For me, the answer is simple… NO. In fact, I don't even know if UK is top 5. Villanova, duke, uNC, KU, Gonzaga and maybe even Baylor are ahead of us. If they weren't before 9-17, they are now.
It’s not just about titles and final fours, it's about the programs that have been consistently in the top 5 or 10. UK has not been. We’re always too young and we always have a new roster, so we end up taking more losses than a top program should.
As far as people bringing up gaps in titles and final fours, just stop it, nothing is equal. Cal gets paid a lot more, he has a private jet, he has had a thousand times the talent and he gets the benefit of using UK as a brand that those other coaches helped build.
Cal is also in an era where he has Nike and AAU that are huge advantages in recruiting and the quality of player that comes through the door. I'm not sure these facts have come up in the past, did Tubby and RP have AAU ball to go to for recruiting? Nike?
We can argue all day about how many FF's and titles Cal has, but even the biggest Cal fan (MD) has to admit that he should have more titles and final fours. They also have to admit that his in-game coaching has cost us a title or two.
I think the game has passed him by . But we’ll see .
He should have more? Why? Playing with children? Maybe 19 yr olds kick you *** every day, bug normally a grown man has an advantage over kids. Experience, strength, endurance. Just another example of your utterly clueless perspective on this. I guess the kids went off all over you in church league.
Is it? Gonzaga (and WSU before them) basically grabs one of the 1-seeds specifically because they march through their conference. That leaves 3 remaining, where you essentially need to have only 4-5 losses OR be in a conference that's deemed the best, which the SEC has never been (until this year?).
1-seeds shouldn't be the expectation, because we're basically trying to be one of the 3 best teams come March and that's just not realistic.. BUT, maybe being a top3 seed line is? Kentucky has had a few years where we missed that mark of being top10.. 2016, 2018, and obviously last year... But we also had 2-seeds in 2017 and 2019, and what appears to be a 3-seed in 2020.
Also, it's only been 6 years, but 7 if we count this year.. and I imagine we're not getting a 1-seed.
He promised to catch UCLA. Turns out that was all snake oil. He won once and let go of the reigns. And before you Cal fans criticize me for having too high of expectations, it was Cal who put the goal posts there.
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