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Expectations vs reality

K_TIME

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,373
25,648
113
MdWIldcat55 said:
This often-repeated claim that Kentucky has been in steep decline in recent years is absolute nonsense. Let's look at the facts:

2017 - A last second shot from the Final Four. Many would argue that game was for the Championship, and Kentucky played it with a horrible and biased official actively working against them.

2018 - A bad game at a bad time ended the year after the Cats made the Sweet 16 (some programs celebrate those, but I agree Kentucky shouldn't.)

2019 - An overtime loss away from the Final Four. A frustrating game against a team that happened to get red hot at the right time, crushing Kansas and UNC-Cheats before the Kentucky game. One chance for a free throw away. It happens in college basketball.

2020 - A team that won the SEC outright by three full games and was ranked 8th in both polls didn't get to make a tourney run because of COVID.

2021 - A disastrous year in one of the most unique and atypical years in NCAA history.

So, that's Kentucky's recent past: Two teams that came a bounce of the ball from the Final Four, another conference champion that didn't get a chance to make a patented Calipari run in five years. That's not a program that has fallen off the cliff.
Click to expand...
1. You left off 2016 which was a second round exit with only 2 great guards and zilch inside
2. 2017....last great Cal team with Monk/Fox and Bam....but again, we put ourselves to being seeded at #2 in UNC bracket by losing too many games earlier.
3. 2018 was a pretty bad year. And we had a lucky bracket that was busted to pieces...and we proceeded to choke vs. a "meh" Kansas St team
4. 2019....You call Auburn loss in elite 8 as red hot...but fail to mention their best player got ACL tear in game before...so it was basically 2 Auburn guards with no interior presence...and we chocked it away
5. 2020...we'll never know but that was not an elite team. We lost at home to Tenn and got a miracle comeback vs. FLorida along with Hagans falling apart personally down the stretch. I never felt like that team was going to do a final 4
6. 2021 worst year in UK history...you can't argue that as the stats back that up all the way.

Again as has been mentioned...no final fours and no 1 seeds. That is clearly trending the wrong direction.
 
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MdWIldcat55

MdWIldcat55

Heisman
Dec 9, 2007
21,288
84,939
113
K_TIME said:
1. You left off 2016 which was a second round exit with only 2 great guards and zilch inside
2. 2017....last great Cal team with Monk/Fox and Bam....but again, we put ourselves to being seeded at #2 in UNC bracket by losing too many games earlier.
3. 2018 was a pretty bad year. And we had a lucky bracket that was busted to pieces...and we proceeded to choke vs. a "meh" Kansas St team
4. 2019....You call Auburn loss in elite 8 as red hot...but fail to mention their best player got ACL tear in game before...so it was basically 2 Auburn guards with no interior presence...and we chocked it away
5. 2020...we'll never know but that was not an elite team. We lost at home to Tenn and got a miracle comeback vs. FLorida along with Hagans falling apart personally down the stretch. I never felt like that team was going to do a final 4
6. 2021 worst year in UK history...you can't argue that as the stats back that up all the way.

Again as has been mentioned...no final fours and no 1 seeds. That is clearly trending the wrong direction.
Click to expand...
If I left off 2016 then you left off 2015 - (38-1) and 2014 - (Final Game).

Looking at the last five years, as I did, is an objective take. People generally look at things in five-year increments.

Choosing to start at an odd number like 6 is simply trying to reinforce a biased point of view. Either look at the whole story back to 2010, or if trying (and failing) to make the point that the recent past has been bad, go back five years, as I did.
 
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C

ClickCat40

Redshirt
Mar 25, 2021
26
38
0
STL_Cat said:
1993-2005 was a pretty great 12 year run. Unless you mean by just the one coach.
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Agreed was looking at 1 coach, but the program had No Final 4s after 98 until 2012

Career final 4s

Rupp = 6 (41 years)
Hall = 3 (13 years)
Pitino = 3 (8 years)
Smith = 1 (10 years)
Cal = 4 (12 years)

Cals years are as close to Pitinos 8 that I have seen, granted I am only 51 and wasn't around for Rupps 41 years. Very similar in my humble opinion
 
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K

know1

Heisman
Dec 8, 2002
12,855
14,925
0
From a results perspective, the first 5 years were everything anyone could have hoped.

But, there were some warning signs in the direction of the program and how he was running it. Clearly, the focus really hasn't been on doing everything possible to win games and championships. It's been on recruiting the best talent and getting them drafted and to be successful in the NBA. That manifested itself in no preparation for opponents, no offensive scheme, so adjustments, no in-bound plays, etc.

In my opinion, he should have likely been more successful in terms of wins and tournament success if he'd just been focused on the program and not the players.

In the last 5 years or so, I've really just lost interest and have been extremely worried about the state of the program. I think we've lost the prestige and aura that we have had literally forever. We're not feared, we've lost fans (or many have lost a lot of interest), a lot of the games are boring and not well attended.

We are not the program we were when he took over. Sure, we had some down years in terms of basketball success right before he got here and he restored that, but as of now, the intangible things about the tradition and history of the UK basketball program have dropped by a lot due to his leadership of it.
 
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ClickCat40

Redshirt
Mar 25, 2021
26
38
0
MdWIldcat55 said:
This often-repeated claim that Kentucky has been in steep decline in recent years is absolute nonsense. Let's look at the facts:

2017 - A last second shot from the Final Four. Many would argue that game was for the Championship, and Kentucky played it with a horrible and biased official actively working against them.

2018 - A bad game at a bad time ended the year after the Cats made the Sweet 16 (some programs celebrate those, but I agree Kentucky shouldn't.)

2019 - An overtime loss away from the Final Four. A frustrating game against a team that happened to get red hot at the right time, crushing Kansas and UNC-Cheats before the Kentucky game. One chance for a free throw away. It happens in college basketball.

2020 - A team that won the SEC outright by three full games and was ranked 8th in both polls didn't get to make a tourney run because of COVID.

2021 - A disastrous year in one of the most unique and atypical years in NCAA history.

So, that's Kentucky's recent past: Two teams that came a bounce of the ball from the Final Four, another conference champion that didn't get a chance to make a patented Calipari run in five years. That's not a program that has fallen off the cliff.
Click to expand...
This sums it up well...in the hunt the majority of the time. Ball didnt bounce our way as often as it did in the earlier years. Winning is HARD, winning in the NCAA tournament is even harder. 100 plus years of hoops and 17 final 4s, and 8 championships.....and I know you dont want to hear it, but really only 4 in the more modern area of basketball.

look at these droughts:
58 to 78
78 to 96/98
98 to 2012
 
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S

STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
64,884
57,638
98
ClickCat40 said:
This sums it up well...in the hunt the majority of the time. Ball didnt bounce our way as often as it did in the earlier years. Winning is HARD, winning in the NCAA tournament is even harder. 100 plus years of hoops and 17 final 4s, and 8 championships.....and I know you dont want to hear it, but really only 4 in the more modern area of basketball.

look at these droughts:
58 to 78
78 to 96/98
98 to 2012
Click to expand...
2 of the 4 times the "ball bounced our way" under Cal we were 1 seeds and quite clearly the best team headed into the tourney. It's not like we've been 1 seeds still, only losing now.
 
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D

deep3

All-Conference
May 15, 2002
1,640
2,301
0
CB3UK said:
The first 5 years were better than I expected honestly. The last 5 or whatever it is now we've all outlined outlined graphed, they've been on par with Tubbys last 5. This year and next year are going to determine where this thing is headed.

Tubby obviously didn't want to fool with the recruiting UK demands. He didn't want to throw his assistants under the bus to save his own butt because I'm sure in his heart at that point he was ready for something different.

Cals made several staff shakeup and changes which says to me he's not done. He's obviously got some great recruits coming. But the results are going to have to be there.

Now that sounds doom and gloom but that's not how I'm saying it. I'm just saying it as a statement of fact. Losing in the Rd of 32 to Indiana or crap like K State, just not sure how kuch longer it could go on. But I think we've got a solid team right now and we have a lot of basketball in front of us. We don't know what we have yet. Ready for Saturday to find out. Notre Dame is meh this year. We should ne able to run the off the court.
Click to expand...
Nailed it
 
K

KYExtemper

All-Conference
Mar 6, 2013
4,471
4,618
0
Calipari interjected an immediate dose of energy into the program when he was hired. I thought we'd have multiple titles by now, so that's disappointing that we just have one, especially since we came so close with the 2011, 2014, and 2015 teams.

I still insist, as do many here, that Calipari has never been the same since 38-0 vs. Wisconsin. Sometimes bad beats just stay with coaches/programs for a really long time and that has hung over ours for what seems like an eternity. Just looking at Calipari on the bench these he seems tired and worn out. The same swag just isn't there anymore.
 
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B

Backer cutter

Heisman
Jul 8, 2019
7,707
20,355
0
know1 said:
From a results perspective, the first 5 years were everything anyone could have hoped.

But, there were some warning signs in the direction of the program and how he was running it. Clearly, the focus really hasn't been on doing everything possible to win games and championships. It's been on recruiting the best talent and getting them drafted and to be successful in the NBA. That manifested itself in no preparation for opponents, no offensive scheme, so adjustments, no in-bound plays, etc.

In my opinion, he should have likely been more successful in terms of wins and tournament success if he'd just been focused on the program and not the players.

In the last 5 years or so, I've really just lost interest and have been extremely worried about the state of the program. I think we've lost the prestige and aura that we have had literally forever. We're not feared, we've lost fans (or many have lost a lot of interest), a lot of the games are boring and not well attended.

We are not the program we were when he took over. Sure, we had some down years in terms of basketball success right before he got here and he restored that, but as of now, the intangible things about the tradition and history of the UK basketball program have dropped by a lot due to his leadership of it.
Click to expand...
Yep, every word.
 
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G

Gromcat_rivals

Heisman
Jun 28, 2021
10,292
27,496
0
MdWIldcat55 said:
This often-repeated claim that Kentucky has been in steep decline in recent years is absolute nonsense. Let's look at the facts:

2017 - A last second shot from the Final Four. Many would argue that game was for the Championship, and Kentucky played it with a horrible and biased official actively working against them.

2018 - A bad game at a bad time ended the year after the Cats made the Sweet 16 (some programs celebrate those, but I agree Kentucky shouldn't.)

2019 - An overtime loss away from the Final Four. A frustrating game against a team that happened to get red hot at the right time, crushing Kansas and UNC-Cheats before the Kentucky game. One chance for a free throw away. It happens in college basketball.

2020 - A team that won the SEC outright by three full games and was ranked 8th in both polls didn't get to make a tourney run because of COVID.

2021 - A disastrous year in one of the most unique and atypical years in NCAA history.

So, that's Kentucky's recent past: Two teams that came a bounce of the ball from the Final Four, another conference champion that didn't get a chance to make a patented Calipari run in five years. That's not a program that has fallen off the cliff.
Click to expand...

Let’s look at the facts: = Read these excuses.

I really think at this point mD55 should just be thrown in the trash as a poster. It’s sad seeing a once great poster be reduced to this. There is nothing Cal could do that would make this guy fire him. Cal is the ultimate salesman, and md just can’t handle it. “By the balls”

Calipari has got two years to get back to the final four. If he fails, and has mediocre season, you’ll be the last one left.
 
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RunninRichie

RunninRichie

Heisman
Sep 5, 2019
28,583
68,235
113
MdWIldcat55 said:
This often-repeated claim that Kentucky has been in steep decline in recent years is absolute nonsense. Let's look at the facts:

2017 - A last second shot from the Final Four. Many would argue that game was for the Championship, and Kentucky played it with a horrible and biased official actively working against them.

2018 - A bad game at a bad time ended the year after the Cats made the Sweet 16 (some programs celebrate those, but I agree Kentucky shouldn't.)

2019 - An overtime loss away from the Final Four. A frustrating game against a team that happened to get red hot at the right time, crushing Kansas and UNC-Cheats before the Kentucky game. One chance for a free throw away. It happens in college basketball.

2020 - A team that won the SEC outright by three full games and was ranked 8th in both polls didn't get to make a tourney run because of COVID.

2021 - A disastrous year in one of the most unique and atypical years in NCAA history.

So, that's Kentucky's recent past: Two teams that came a bounce of the ball from the Final Four, another conference champion that didn't get a chance to make a patented Calipari run in five years. That's not a program that has fallen off the cliff.
Click to expand...
The facts
2017-lost
2018-lost
2019-lost
2020-40-0 but covid
2021-9-16 LOL
 
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HagginHall1999

HagginHall1999

Heisman
Oct 19, 2018
16,009
28,482
113
Some of these takes are hilarious.

People who think the program was in a better spot before Cal got here than it is now....high as a kite or have severe memory issues.

Near a quarter of our program final fours have been achieved since 2009-2010. Truly that is all that needs to be said....but if this helps:

We have as many FF in the past 12 years than we had between 1959-1984. That's 25 years people...

Let that sink in for a second.

It has been a frustrating year and a half. There have been some infuriating losses in the tournament, but this run has been a good one and can continue to be.

I'm looking forward to this year and the next couple at least. That will probably be the end of the road regardless for Cal.
 
B

Backer cutter

Heisman
Jul 8, 2019
7,707
20,355
0
Oh there’s a couple more that will lick the ooze off the decaying flesh left behind, but yeah, it’s kinda sad. I have said it more than I should, because no one ever takes it seriously, but. One more time. Go back and listen to Cal’s acceptance speech. We( well not me anymore) are watching EXACTLY what he said was coming, and have been all along. Problem is, it worked for a few years, and hasn’t for a few more. But he told us all, some can’t see the ugly duckling for the pretty flock, it’s disguised and hidden, but in plain sight.
 
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T

The_Answer1313_rivals

Heisman
May 27, 2007
31,899
24,996
113
When Cal was hired my initial thought was 1 title and then depending on how long he stayed maybe more.

Just the random nature of the tournament and whatnot. So based on that I will say he's pretty much been right on target with what I expected.

Given the first five years was it a bit of a disappointment to not get a 2nd one at least? Yeah probably.

But if I'm thinking about when he first started I would say he's been level with what I expected.
 
T

The_Answer1313_rivals

Heisman
May 27, 2007
31,899
24,996
113
fatguy87 said:
Kentucky's Kenpom rankings in the last 5 completed seasons:

2021 - 49
2020 - 29
2019 - 8
2018 - 17
2017 - 4

Kentucky's Kenpom rankings in the last 5 seasons under Tubby:

2007 - 13
2006 - 24
2005 - 9
2004 - 10
2003 - 1
Click to expand...

I'm going to say something that people will not agree with but whatever lol.

To me those numbers speak more about Tubby and less about Cal. Tubby wasn't nearly as bad as people made him out to be.
 
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HagginHall1999

HagginHall1999

Heisman
Oct 19, 2018
16,009
28,482
113
The_Answer1313 said:
I'm going to say something that people will not agree with but whatever lol.

To me those numbers speak more about Tubby and less about Cal. Tubby wasn't nearly as bad as people made him out to be.
Click to expand...

Or it speaks to KenPom rankings lol. How the hell were we 49th last year?

In all seriousness, Tubby was a good coach he just lacked some institutional control and kind of quit trying to recruit hi level.
 
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D

dlh331

Heisman
Jan 4, 2003
28,583
22,057
113
I read a post on Rafters that at UK Cal has had amazing success AND underachieved. The 12 years are either the 3rd or 4th best such era at UK in our history.

It is also true that 3 programs have won more titles than us in those 12 years. I realize the talent is only here 1 season but Cal’s first 2 teams had as many or more 1st rounders than Rupp, Hall, Pitino or Tubby did…..for their careers.
 
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B

Blue Wildcat

Heisman
Oct 10, 2008
5,728
10,144
0
Outside of scores, records, etc..I expected Cal to keep us relevant, fresh, in the news. The program has lost its luster, we aren’t the “It”school any longer. He hasn’t been the visionary I expected and has failed to stay ahead of the curve as the landscape shifted. We are outdated in my opinion.
 
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C

cathouse_rivals216755

Heisman
Dec 30, 2002
10,641
20,618
0
KYExtemper said:
Calipari interjected an immediate dose of energy into the program when he was hired. I thought we'd have multiple titles by now, so that's disappointing that we just have one, especially since we came so close with the 2011, 2014, and 2015 teams.

I still insist, as do many here, that Calipari has never been the same since 38-0 vs. Wisconsin. Sometimes bad beats just stay with coaches/programs for a really long time and that has hung over ours for what seems like an eternity. Just looking at Calipari on the bench these he seems tired and worn out. The same swag just isn't there anymore.
Click to expand...
This^^^^.

Cal is burnt-out and it is pretty obvious.

It is NOT from coaching basketball. Cal is limited to how much time he actually spends coaching his teams.

Cal has burned himself out trying to be "Swaggy Cal" and the most important man in the college basketball world.

Cal considers himself to be the "rock star" that has to be seen at every major AAU tournament and every high profile HS basketball game in order to successfully recruit these top 5 players that he is consistently missing on now since his ugly divorce with Nike, WWW, Drake, and all that elitist crowd who control today's young stars.

No way he has the energy at 60 to keep this pace up. And it's showing on Cal, on his recruiting, and on his team's performance.

The trend is going down.
 
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RunninRichie

RunninRichie

Heisman
Sep 5, 2019
28,583
68,235
113
cathouse said:
This^^^^.

Cal is burnt-out and it is pretty obvious.

It is NOT from coaching basketball. Csl is limited to how much time he actually spends coaching his teams.

Cal has burned himself out trying to be "Swaggy Cal" and the mist important man in the college basketball world.

Cal considers himself to be the "rock star" that has to be seen at every major AAU tournament and every high profile HS basketball game in order to successfully recruit these top 5 players that he is consistently missing on now since his ugly divorce with Nike, WWW, Drake, and all that elitist crowd who control today's young stars.

No way he has the energy at 60 to keep this pace up. And it's showing on Cal, on his recruiting, and on his team's performance.

The trend is going down.
Click to expand...
drake still likes UK. I seen a video of him last month saying "man...to be honest im a wildcat fan."
 
revcort

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
Oh, this topic again... hmmm... what a relief! It's been like 2 or 3 days since we talked about it and everyone's opinions have all changed, so we need to talk about it again. And these conversations always change someone's mind. Let's do it.
 
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RunninRichie

RunninRichie

Heisman
Sep 5, 2019
28,583
68,235
113
IL Wildcat said:
Oh, this topic again... hmmm... what a relief! It's been like 2 or 3 days since we talked about it and everyone's opinions have all changed, so we need to talk about it again. And these conversations always change someone's mind. Let's do it.
Click to expand...
just passing time until 5pm.
 
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TortElvisII

TortElvisII

Heisman
May 7, 2010
51,700
96,942
66
Gromcat said:
I’m still trying to figure out when we started using basketballs that won’t act right? I know they were regular acting balls in the 90’s because the Bulls and Wildcats. Didn’t hurt the Spurs either.

I’m guessing it had to be 2010.
Click to expand...
The younger people on here that keep talking about how they couldn't shoot back in the '50s and '60s... Need to go play with those big old balls they used with no seams. Get back to us on how good a shooting you did.
 
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