Thats it in a nutshell, well said, when we read the list of highly placed people who were UNC alums I knew that it was beating a dead horse to even comment on the topic, last we seen of Ole Roy and UNC they were slipping through the backyard fence...dadgummit is all I can say.
Unc ** was instrumental in help setting up the APR system. I guess that does not apply in an area if it is made up but anyone with real accredited classes are in trouble. GBBOriginally posted by Waterview Catfan:
"What happens if you cheat in a made up class?"
I can't remember, what exactly did they bust Penn State with, from a rules perspective? Or did they just accept the commissions findings?
Not saying it's not in their scope, just that the NCAA extremely limited (and I think rightfully so, as universities don't need some athletic institution overlord when it comes to their own academic house) in its ability to get out in front of a university's own inquiry in the area of academic fraud. But academic fraud is an NCAA violation, nonetheless.
So generally institution's investigate and fact find in these cases, issue reports, then NCAA comes in after and slaps the athletic program around as appropriate. And that's what's happening here.
UNC has made their move with the Wainstein/Cadlwalader report, which was pretty damning. Now it's the NCAA's turn. We'll see.
So why do we call them student athletes, Mark? Why does it matter what goes on in high school classrooms which are NOT under your jurisdiction but not in college classrooms which ARE under your jurisdiction? (Or in this case, what did NOT happen in college classrooms, since they didn't exist?)
So much dumbass in that statement. But that's what you get from a dumbass.
I'd like to see the breakdown of how much $$$ UNC made during this time frame on athletics. Say in 2005, how much money would they have made if say 3 or 4 of the players were academically ineligible and they were a little over .500 instead of NC? How much did they make in apparel sales thanks to winning records?
Sure it does. What we're looking at here though is a "Devoid of any Institutional Control" issue. Different game, different rules.
Well, he's right to some extent, even though it's an entirely chicken s answer. The NCAA isn't SACS. They have no desire, nor qualifications, nor any authority to dictate rigor. But holy hell, these kids were enrolled in fake classes designed solely to keep them eligible to play NCAA games. Pretty sure that falls under the NCAA's jurisdiction after the fact.
The NCAA needs to ditch him immediately, but everyone other than the NCAA already knows this.
The NCAA needs to ditch him immediately, but everyone other than the NCAA already knows this.
Remember the schools are the NCAA so they really can't bring a law suit against themselves. See how this catch 22 works...
UNC*** is a member but the group as a whole can't be held legally accountable for the UNC*** rogue based on Emmert's statement
Will the whole organization hold the rogue accountable for the rogue's sham? Did the whole organization condone the rogue's sham by turning a blind eye? I would love to see Congress or a court subpoena the NCAA's records and make them public. Their records should be public anyway. It is an organization funded by public institutions,
wildcatdonf posted on 4/2/2015...
They make up a new rule whenever punishment
does not fit their agenda. Nobody on this board is surprised by his
statement. Why even keep up with an athlete's grades
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Eric Bledsoe's high school in Birmingham, Alabama did just that and got away with it . Alabama laws require the High Schools to keep a students grades for 4 years.. An investigation headed by a former Federal Judge said over half of his grades were missing, most notable a night class.
Yes, I agree why even keep up with their grades if they are not protected.
They make up a new rule whenever punishment
does not fit their agenda. Nobody on this board is surprised by his
statement. Why even keep up with an athlete's grades
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Eric Bledsoe's high school in Birmingham, Alabama did just that and got away with it . Alabama laws require the High Schools to keep a students grades for 4 years.. An investigation headed by a former Federal Judge said over half of his grades were missing, most notable a night class.
Yes, I agree why even keep up with their grades if they are not protected.
Nothing will happen to UNC. Was never going to anyway, If I were schools like UK, I would work quietly with big name schools that were willing and very serious to form their own association forget this band of clowns.
UNC blatantly cheats for almost 20 years and this buffoon makes a comment like that as Head of the NCAA. If I were Cal, after this FF and if he wins a NC, I would stick it to them every chance I got. In every interview I was in I would mention how the schools he was at were forced to vacate FF's while UNC played ineligible players for almost two decades.
Keep bringing it up and keep bringing it up. I would constantly mention those FF's and great those memories were. Say they happened. don't care what the NCAA says, those games happened and they count and will always count.
UNC blatantly cheats for almost 20 years and this buffoon makes a comment like that as Head of the NCAA. If I were Cal, after this FF and if he wins a NC, I would stick it to them every chance I got. In every interview I was in I would mention how the schools he was at were forced to vacate FF's while UNC played ineligible players for almost two decades.
Keep bringing it up and keep bringing it up. I would constantly mention those FF's and great those memories were. Say they happened. don't care what the NCAA says, those games happened and they count and will always count.
That is not what he is saying. The NCAA is not a school teacher, they do not as an organization educate student athletes.Originally posted by Bkocats:
So...what Emmert saying is that NCAA looking into Bledsoe's transcripts, allowing ETS to invalidate Rose (after clearing him twice), the academics at UConn and Syracuse are NOT under their umbrella?
The ncaa is being sued for not being a kids SCHOOL TEACHER, something they have never been. Emmert is 100% correct in saying they do not teach classes. That is all he is saying.
This has zero to do with whether or not UNC will get punished for cheating, it's only about a lawsuit claiming the ncaa didn't educate some students.
To me this is pure BS for scholarship athletes because part of their "contract" is that they get the education paid for by the athletic department in exchange for performing on the court, which is something I've heard no one mention as a possible direction to take this thing, given it's clear that the NCAA is walking down the path of letting UNC off the hook.
That's not what Emmert's been saying, though.Originally posted by JohnBlue_:
That is not what he is saying. The NCAA is not a school teacher, they do not as an organization educate student athletes.Originally posted by Bkocats:
So...what Emmert saying is that NCAA looking into Bledsoe's transcripts, allowing ETS to invalidate Rose (after clearing him twice), the academics at UConn and Syracuse are NOT under their umbrella?
The ncaa is being sued for not being a kids SCHOOL TEACHER, something they have never been. Emmert is 100% correct in saying they do not teach classes. That is all he is saying.
This has zero to do with whether or not UNC will get punished for cheating, it's only about a lawsuit claiming the ncaa didn't educate some students.
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/emmert-urges-values-based-approach-speech
"As I said to you last year, there are those who would raise the white flag on the regulatory side and focus on the side that cares only about the competition," Emmert said. "But I also don't know of any university or college president who wants that.
"Instead, let's make sure our bylaws are designed to foster competition, promote values and advance the collegiate model," Emmert said.
"Let's make sure that our athletics programs are conducted where students choose to be athletes as part of their educational experience. Let's make sure our programs promote the highest ideals - not just of sport but of higher education. Let's ensure that we are operating within the context of higher education."
Emmert urged shared responsibility in compliance matters, too, calling on all member institutions to monitor their behavior and cooperate with the Association's enforcement efforts.
Student-athlete well-being also is a priority, as are high academic standards.
"Intercollegiate athletics programs have to be conducted in a way that enhances the wellness of our students. That just has to be the case," Emmert said. "And we need to have standards designed to ensure proper emphasis on educational objectives as well as athletics success."
Emmert also stressed the importance of diversity and inclusion.
"Those values improve the learning environment for all our student-athletes, enhance excellence within our membership, and recognize the need that all of America has for open and fair participation and all of the things that intercollegiate athletics provide," he said.
With those values as benchmarks, Emmert said, the NCAA will be able to manage both sides of the coin - the shiny championships side and the not-so-shiny regulatory side - as complementary rather than opposing components.
"As we make policy decisions in the future, let's turn back to the guiding principles to ensure the commitment to the collegiate model," he said. "If we're going to keep balancing this two-sided coin, then we can't just worry about the shiny side but also the regulatory side, because that's the hard work of this whole enterprise."
i predict he steps down soon. what a near sighted and smug response that is. you can't have a more sports centered scandal. how did this all happen? not surprised by his bs. eventually it will be out of his control. he wants no part of it and that was evident three years ago.
This post was edited on 4/2 9:50 PM by hotelblue
This post was edited on 4/2 9:50 PM by hotelblue
That is yet to be seen...the NCAA seems to be acting as if they need this to go away and IMHO that suggests that they feel some degree of exposure.
I've been following a local securities fraud case and the way prosecutors have connected the dots and taken the people involved down one by one. In the beginning, the "co-conspirators" all had a dog in the fight and made every attempt to make the overall case disappear. As it rolled on...as the players fell one by one, more info and more charges came out.
I see a very similar process happening in the UNC scandal. The NCAA, after decades of bragging about being a "student-athlete association, is now trying to divorce themselves from it almost completely. That in itself seems suspicious.
My gut tells me there is possibly something buried in truckloads of discovery doc's that ties them directly to having knowledge of the paper classes. UNC was probably viewed as "too big to fail" at the highest levels of the NCAA and they decided to ignore knowledge of it. They probably have had their "if this gets out" defense strategy planned for a while. It won't shock me if some email that was supposed to have been scrubbed pops up and we see NCAA employees indited.
The NCAA is a multi-million dollar business...whenever that much money is at stake, the odds of every employee being 100% clean and honest is very slim.
One more thing...winning a lawsuit does not mean you are innocent, it just means you had better lawyers.
Re: Emmert comments on UNC academic scandal[/URL]
JasonS. posted on 4/2/2015...
This isn't exactly a revelatory statement.
The NCAA wears a lot of hats (probably too many), but it doesn't have
command and control over academics.
And that's a good thing.
Re: Emmert comments on UNC academic scandal[/URL]
JasonS. posted on 4/2/2015...
This isn't exactly a revelatory statement.
The NCAA wears a lot of hats (probably too many), but it doesn't have
command and control over academics.
And that's a good thing.
That's why UNC had to act here first with the Wainstein Report, then the (ongoing) NCAA review picks up from there.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
JasonS is right on. Thank goodness someone has reading comprehension .
JasonS. posted on 4/2/2015...
This isn't exactly a revelatory statement.
The NCAA wears a lot of hats (probably too many), but it doesn't have
command and control over academics.
And that's a good thing.
Re: Emmert comments on UNC academic scandal[/URL]
JasonS. posted on 4/2/2015...
This isn't exactly a revelatory statement.
The NCAA wears a lot of hats (probably too many), but it doesn't have
command and control over academics.
And that's a good thing.
That's why UNC had to act here first with the Wainstein Report, then the (ongoing) NCAA review picks up from there.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
JasonS is right on. Thank goodness someone has reading comprehension .
Re: Emmert comments on UNC academic scandal[/URL]
TNCatfanforever posted on 4/2/2015...
Are we surprised here? So basically Emmert
says you can recruit kids and give them grades to stay eligible and the
NCAA does not care. I wonder how the people at Georgia feel about that
when they got busted for having some weak "fake" type classes.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________-
You need to read it again. Emmert did not say that.. Your reading comprehension needs work.
I would think any fan or supporter would hope thier team was not involved in anything like that. However it seems "winning, whatever its takes " is the rule of thumb any more..
TNCatfanforever posted on 4/2/2015...
Are we surprised here? So basically Emmert
says you can recruit kids and give them grades to stay eligible and the
NCAA does not care. I wonder how the people at Georgia feel about that
when they got busted for having some weak "fake" type classes.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________-
You need to read it again. Emmert did not say that.. Your reading comprehension needs work.
I would think any fan or supporter would hope thier team was not involved in anything like that. However it seems "winning, whatever its takes " is the rule of thumb any more..
The new NCAA motto - "Authority without Responsibility"
The reality is UNC cheated for many years, and will get away with it.
So now the challenge going forward for member institutions is to confront the NCAA forevermore that the NCAA does not have any responsibility for the school's actions and therefore should not expect to be able to sanction anyone ever again.
The reality is UNC cheated for many years, and will get away with it.
So now the challenge going forward for member institutions is to confront the NCAA forevermore that the NCAA does not have any responsibility for the school's actions and therefore should not expect to be able to sanction anyone ever again.
Crime does pay at UNC but this is also criminal. Cheating in academics will get you put in prison. Check the news and see what happen to black teachers and administrators in Atlanta, GA who engaged in this criminal activity. They were not as corrupt as the University of North Carolina and they were hauled out of the court room in handcuffs and taken straight to jail.
It happens in the real world.
It happens in the real world.
Only if some of these academics types go to prison. This is criminal activity and should be punished with hard time in the State Pen. That will stop it or nothing will. I want to see UNC faculty taken out of the court room in handcuffs, kicking and screaming just like the ones who were convicted in Atlanta this week.
If the University of North Carolina engaged in fraud, corruption or abused tax payer money, those may be criminal acts and should be treated as such with a jury trial open to all to see.
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