Duke game thread 8/15/18

TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
140
132
0
I can begin by pointing out that Duke’s starting lineup has 3 top 10 picks and uk’s doesn’t even have one player in the lottery. Of course both of those statements are based on current projections and subject to serious change but it puts a massive hole in your starting talent claim. The guys who get paid to evaluate and acquire talent feel very differently.
FYI, History also points out that Duke players generally drop draft spots after playing at Duke. So I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

Also, you may want to go back and read the comments from some NBA people post Bahamas mentioning KJ could jump any of those three if he continues to play at that level all year.
 
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LadyCaytIL

Heisman
Oct 28, 2012
33,002
34,610
113
Richards certainly wasn’t the 5th option in the Bahamas was he?

#3 scorer in only 18 minutes a game while shooting 80% against legit big men.

Only because Travis was struggling hitting bunnies and Hagans hasnt gotten used to college ball yet. when those two come into their own... they'll be #3 and #4.... leaving Richards to #5 at best.

Its also cute you thought his pts came against legit big men.... his big scoring game came against the bahamas..... unless you mean legit as in size and weight rather than skill
 

TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
140
132
0
Only because Travis was struggling hitting bunnies and Hagans hasnt gotten used to college ball yet. when those two come into their own... they'll be #3 and #4.... leaving Richards to #5 at best.

Its also cute you thought his pts came against legit big men.... his big scoring game came against the bahamas..... unless you mean legit as in size and weight rather than skill
You do know scoring isn't exactly Hagans game, right? He's more of a facilitator and defender. He tends to score off drives and in the open court. I highly doubt he's one of the leading scorers. Richards has a higher likelihood of scoring more than him. We tried to get him going last year and be a featured part of the offense, he just wasn't able to adjust to the college level. So far, looks like he's adjusted this year. Same thing could happen this year to some of the other guys.

Also, some of the big men played against in the Bahamas were former D-1 players and a couple were on NBA radars or had played professionally elsewhere. They are far from world beaters, but quite a bit better than you may have knowledge of.

NBA guys left pretty impressed with him, as did the coaches, opposing players and most fans who know much about the game.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,336
72,182
113
So you agree with me on Reddish. Great. Makes you wonder why even dispute the point to start.
Duke is better this year because they have a true pg, their wings can get their shot whenever they want as opposed to being fed, and this team can guard and actually play m2m while switching everything like K likes.
Now does that mean they’ll win it all? Nah. But they have as good a shot as anyone.
Wait, how do you know this team can guard? I bet they can't. I bet they end up going zone just like last years team did.
Also, you think those 3 forwards can get their shots anytime they want? What, do you think they're simply too good for elite college defenses?
You're going to learn a few things this year my friend.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,336
72,182
113
I can begin by pointing out that Duke’s starting lineup has 3 top 10 picks and uk’s doesn’t even have one player in the lottery. Of course both of those statements are based on current projections and subject to serious change but it puts a massive hole in your starting talent claim. The guys who get paid to evaluate and acquire talent feel very differently.
LOL, wasn't Bagley supposed to be the overall #1 pick last year? Yeah, how'd that work out?
I bet UK ends up with at least 1 lottery pick, but ut could be as many as 3 when all is said and done. Cal has consistently coached individual players to much higher picks than what they were projected to be. Shai Alexander is the biggest example of that.
keldon Johnson will be a lottery pick, that's for damn sure.
 
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BlueBlood66_rivals34314

All-Conference
Aug 2, 2012
3,469
1,233
0
LOL, wasn't Bagley supposed to be the overall #1 pick last year? Yeah, how'd that work out?
I bet UK ends up with at least 1 lottery pick, but ut could be as many as 3 when all is said and done. Cal has consistently coached individual players to much higher picks than what they were projected to be. Shai Alexander is the biggest example of that.
keldon Johnson will be a lottery pick, that's for damn sure.

Most mock drafts had Bagley in the 2-4 range before the season and he went #2.
 

LadyCaytIL

Heisman
Oct 28, 2012
33,002
34,610
113
You do know scoring isn't exactly Hagans game, right? He's more of a facilitator and defender. He tends to score off drives and in the open court. I highly doubt he's one of the leading scorers. Richards has a higher likelihood of scoring more than him. We tried to get him going last year and be a featured part of the offense, he just wasn't able to adjust to the college level. So far, looks like he's adjusted this year. Same thing could happen this year to some of the other guys.

Also, some of the big men played against in the Bahamas were former D-1 players and a couple were on NBA radars or had played professionally elsewhere. They are far from world beaters, but quite a bit better than you may have knowledge of.

NBA guys left pretty impressed with him, as did the coaches, opposing players and most fans who know much about the game.

According to the final stats over at aseaofblue... richards wasnt the 3rd leading scorer.. he was the 4th... and less than 2pt ahead of Travis... who like I said was having some struggles early missing bunnies.

Also Hagans... who was the #1 pg if he had stayed in the 2019 class.... isnt a scorer? sure... ... He's not a shooter but he's a scorer
 
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Bluesnky

All-American
Jan 24, 2013
6,363
9,715
0
I like the idea that a team full of guys who can’t shoot is going to be saved because all the players can create their own shot. It’s like the old economist’s joke about losing money on each unit but making it up on volume.
 
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TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
140
132
0
According to the final stats over at aseaofblue... richards wasnt the 3rd leading scorer.. he was the 4th... and less than 2pt ahead of Travis... who like I said was having some struggles early missing bunnies.

Also Hagans... who was the #1 pg if he had stayed in the 2019 class.... isnt a scorer? sure... ... He's not a shooter but he's a scorer
Travis could continue to struggle offensively. You're basing your assumptions on what ifs. I'm not saying Nick will or wont be a top 5 scorer. I think he has a legitimate shot based off how Cal didn't give up on him last year and tried to feature him more, matched with the improvement shown in Bahamas and what some have seen in practices. He is the only true center on the roster and one of the more athletic players. Reid is more of a below the rim type player, which aren't exactly the type Cal has a lot of experience or success with. Jorts would be an exception and it took a couple seasons. And that was more as a last result, fluke type situation. I hope travis is successful and becomes a major stud, but to ignore history and precedent with Cal players is a little goofy.

Hagans really isn't a shooter or primary scorer. Ask any expert. He's far more of a setup man who looks to score secondary. Again, he has speed to attack the basket. Probably the best of anyone we have. He also can be great in transition. Hopefully his defense results in some easy scoring opportunities as well. Green, quickly, herro will all likely be higher volume scorers than Hagans. Anyone who knows much about basketball can see that. It's not a knock on Hagans at all. It's actually more of a compliment because that type of player is rare and vital.
 

Rush2112 UK

All-Conference
Dec 3, 2006
4,743
2,344
0
If there’s any fanbase that understands the difference between reality and potential, it’s us. Williamson. Barrett and Reddish may all be better pros some day than anyone on our roster. On Nov. 6th, they'll be freshmen playing their first game against a team with 4 returnees who'll also be in the NBA one day, with 15,000 UK fans going absolutely crazy (yeah, a lot of us are a little too obsessed with beating you). Duke will improve a lot as the season unfolds. On Nov. 6th, they get their asses kicked.
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
It's going to be a great game when we play Duke. We should not expect to roll them.

I think the difference will be PG play and interior defense. We have three guys that should be a notch above Jones. Bolden has been a major disappointment inside. DeLaurier is better at this point, but he is not great.

Their wings should score, but can they get a basket from anyone besides their big 3? That's the main question.
 

Snackbar11

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2010
726
1,127
73
So you agree with me on Reddish. Great. Makes you wonder why even dispute the point to start.
Duke is better this year because they have a true pg, their wings can get their shot whenever they want as opposed to being fed, and this team can guard and actually play m2m while switching everything like K likes.
Now does that mean they’ll win it all? Nah. But they have as good a shot as anyone.

If Duke plays man to man this year, the opposing teams center will have monster games. You have no one at that spot...
 

DevilFan1989

Freshman
Oct 24, 2016
352
90
0
It's going to be a great game when we play Duke. We should not expect to roll them.

I think the difference will be PG play and interior defense. We have three guys that should be a notch above Jones. Bolden has been a major disappointment inside. DeLaurier is better at this point, but he is not great.

Their wings should score, but can they get a basket from anyone besides their big 3? That's the main question.
Wait what??? You think Quickley, Hagans and Quade are better than Tre Jones???

Apparently the Rupp Rafters community knows more about basketball than those who scout high school basketball players for a living.

Here's what they say:

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final
13. Tre Jones
14. Ashton Hagans
23. Immanuel Quickley

Tre and Ashton are similar prospects but Quickley is a notch below. Depth doesn't matter because K isn't going to go more than 8 deep anyways.
 

20102015

Redshirt
Jul 9, 2018
79
23
0
If Duke plays man to man this year, the opposing teams center will have monster games. You have no one at that spot...

Maybe.
Maybe they switch well enough and pressure the entry passer well enough to deny the post.
Maybe they just use Javin and Zion to run the opposing center. Maybe they create switches and pull the opposing center out to guard in space and use the whistles to deal with him.
Lots of things can happen.
I do agree that just laying behind a true post player and accepting the entry pass and allowing two bigs to go one on one in the post is probably a bad idea.
 

kybassfan

Heisman
Jul 1, 2005
20,032
16,368
113
This discussion is rather silly, but I’ve come to expect from the Pukie fanboi’s. Both teams have plenty of talent to win. This will not be the deciding factor. In Puke’s favor, Krychitski can mature an offense more quickly than most. Calipari will focus on defense early. Puke hasn’t played serious defense in 15 - 20 years. We know Puke will be content to jack 3’s. They will be unable to generate offense in the paint. If Ratface’s girlie boys can shoot better than 50% from three, they win. Less than 30%, they lose. In between is a close game.

The thing that should worry the Pukie’s is lack of improvement. They will be little better in March and their conditioning will suck. History is a *****.
 

Montana81

Heisman
Aug 12, 2004
82,726
29,410
113
Only because Travis was struggling hitting bunnies and Hagans hasnt gotten used to college ball yet. when those two come into their own... they'll be #3 and #4.... leaving Richards to #5 at best.

Its also cute you thought his pts came against legit big men.... his big scoring game came against the bahamas..... unless you mean legit as in size and weight rather than skill

Okay so say Cameron Reddish goes for 15, 5 and 3 on 45/35/75 shooting in like 30 minutes and Richards goes for 12/5/2(blocks) on 60/80(ft) shooting in like 20 minutes a game. Who has the bigger impact? Who had the better season in your opinion.

I realize I’m going out on a limb according to what national analysts think but I don’t think it’s THAT much of stretch that a former 5* player himself with a year of experience at a position of need for his team could have a better season than a freshman that hasn’t played a minute against college competition yet. While also having a bit of a redundant skill set on HIS team(Barrett and Zion are going to have the ball a lot).

And I agree that it’s doubtful Richards will score more than Reddish. I don’t think anyone on our team is going to put up gaudy numbers because we have balance. But Jahlil okafor ourscored karl Towns by a bunch yet not many would argue okafor had the better season and he certainly wasn’t the better player.

There’s something to be said for efficiency.
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
Wait what??? You think Quickley, Hagans and Quade are better than Tre Jones???

Apparently the Rupp Rafters community knows more about basketball than those who scout high school basketball players for a living.

Here's what they say:

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final
13. Tre Jones
14. Ashton Hagans
23. Immanuel Quickley

Tre and Ashton are similar prospects but Quickley is a notch below. Depth doesn't matter because K isn't going to go more than 8 deep anyways.

Not sure why depth doesn't matter?

Duke has one PG. He's a Freshman.

UK has three PGs. One is a Sophomore.

The two Freshmen are, as you pointed out, ranked pretty close to the same as Jones.

And keep in mind, all three of our PGs played on their summer trip, while Jones missed his with an injury.

We'll see how he handles the pressure of leading a team against a team that should pressure the ball, especially considering he has basically no upperclassmen to lean on for help.

So, we will see if depth doesn't matter at PG.
 

Montana81

Heisman
Aug 12, 2004
82,726
29,410
113
I just don’t think tre Jones is gonna matter much. Barrett, Zion and Reddish are going to have the ball 90% of the time.

Jones will be resigned to the role of spot up shooter waiting for kick outs from the other three.
 

Snackbar11

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2010
726
1,127
73
Maybe.
Maybe they switch well enough and pressure the entry passer well enough to deny the post.
Maybe they just use Javin and Zion to run the opposing center. Maybe they create switches and pull the opposing center out to guard in space and use the whistles to deal with him.
Lots of things can happen.
I do agree that just laying behind a true post player and accepting the entry pass and allowing two bigs to go one on one in the post is probably a bad idea.

If the team i saw for 4 games in the Bahamas share the ball as well as they did there, you better not zone this team unless you are crazy fast..and other than zion on dukes team i dont see it happening..
 
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bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
I just don’t think tre Jones is gonna matter much. Barrett, Zion and Reddish are going to have the ball 90% of the time.

Jones will be resigned to the role of spot up shooter waiting for kick outs from the other three.

Not really Jones' game.

If they run the offense through Barrett, Reddish, and Williamson then they are probably better off with O'Connell as their fifth starter. He's the spot up shooter, I believe. I think they will go that route from time to time and if it works it might become their main lineup: Reddish, O'Connell, Barrett, Williamson, and DeLaurier or Bolden.
 
Oct 26, 2016
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Not really Jones' game.

If they run the offense through Barrett, Reddish, and Williamson then they are probably better off with O'Connell as their fifth starter. He's the spot up shooter, I believe. I think they will go that route from time to time and if it works it might become their main lineup: Reddish, O'Connell, Barrett, Williamson, and DeLaurier or Bolden.
You could be right about Tre, especially since Cam is supposedly the most skilled of the big 3. Jack White is another shooter, good rebounder, decent defender - he could play the 4 and Zion the 5 in some lineups.
 

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,283
55,260
100
And no NBA team would want you evaluating talent if you don’t look at Zion and drool. I don’t care who he’s playing. The things he was doing can not be done by just anyone. He is a physical freak with that size and athleticism. If he shoots well as he did, he will be by far the best player in college basketball and Duke will be in the running for the national title. That being said, hitting shots in one game against poor does not mean he hit jump shots against quality competition. If he does he will have an Anthony Davis like impact but that’s a big if.
Anthony Davis type impact?! o_O



No way. [laughing]
 

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,283
55,260
100
It's going to be a great game when we play Duke. We should not expect to roll them.

I think the difference will be PG play and interior defense. We have three guys that should be a notch above Jones. Bolden has been a major disappointment inside. DeLaurier is better at this point, but he is not great.

Their wings should score, but can they get a basket from anyone besides their big 3? That's the main question.
I fully expect to roll them. I think Duke is gonna run straight into a buzz saw on November 6th. JMO.
 

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,794
85,502
113
Travis could continue to struggle offensively. You're basing your assumptions on what ifs. I'm not saying Nick will or wont be a top 5 scorer. I think he has a legitimate shot based off how Cal didn't give up on him last year and tried to feature him more, matched with the improvement shown in Bahamas and what some have seen in practices. He is the only true center on the roster and one of the more athletic players. Reid is more of a below the rim type player, which aren't exactly the type Cal has a lot of experience or success with. Jorts would be an exception and it took a couple seasons. And that was more as a last result, fluke type situation. I hope travis is successful and becomes a major stud, but to ignore history and precedent with Cal players is a little goofy.

Hagans really isn't a shooter or primary scorer. Ask any expert. He's far more of a setup man who looks to score secondary. Again, he has speed to attack the basket. Probably the best of anyone we have. He also can be great in transition. Hopefully his defense results in some easy scoring opportunities as well. Green, quickly, herro will all likely be higher volume scorers than Hagans. Anyone who knows much about basketball can see that. It's not a knock on Hagans at all. It's actually more of a compliment because that type of player is rare and vital.

Travis will only need a few weeks to learn his role and the system and he will be a force. He will average a double double by the end of the year. He is the least likely issue we will have all year.
 

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,794
85,502
113
I fully expect to roll them. I think Duke is gonna run straight into a buzz saw on November 6th. JMO.

If they have any foul trouble from the big three or one of them is really off we will win going away. I predict we will own the glass , out rebound them by double digits, and kill the offensive boards.
 
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*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,794
85,502
113
I just don’t think tre Jones is gonna matter much. Barrett, Zion and Reddish are going to have the ball 90% of the time.

Jones will be resigned to the role of spot up shooter waiting for kick outs from the other three.

Three on five with three guys who a.) need the ball and b.) need to get to the rim is not a great success in college ball. It will work and lead them to a bunch of wins but in the big time games it will lead to problems. We have had this issue a few times here and are all familiar with the problems.
 

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,794
85,502
113
Wait what??? You think Quickley, Hagans and Quade are better than Tre Jones???

Apparently the Rupp Rafters community knows more about basketball than those who scout high school basketball players for a living.

Here's what they say:

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final
13. Tre Jones
14. Ashton Hagans
23. Immanuel Quickley

Tre and Ashton are similar prospects but Quickley is a notch below. Depth doesn't matter because K isn't going to go more than 8 deep anyways.

I will take Quickley 10 out of 10 and you will see why the first game of the season.