dook Preview and Game Thread

[Carolina151]

The NET rankings took notice of the game result, if not the ridiculous FT disparity. dook dropped one spot to 10 and we moved up one to 18, since we easily covered the spread.

Ole Miss also got blown out which helped us switch. Big Q1 game Thursday at VT. We need it

 

[Hvaheel]

UNC played 9 deep. At the 3-5 positions we chose Toomey, Harris, Nivar, Queiroz , Brooks, Thomas and Hull over Henderson. we went 2 deep across every position except guard (because Kelly was out)

no team in p4 plays deeper than that in close games. So it is either/or. Someone above will sit to bring Henderson in.

I have been a big fan of Henderson all season; she is the only player I have felt worthy of more, and I have said it here more than once.

Banghart was asked about Henderson post-game and she addressed it directly. She said that Dook uses complicated offensive actions that take Dook players years to learn, and it takes our players a good bit to learn how to defend. She contrasted that with SMU (taking strays, lol) that as a team is not as technical yet (new roster) and their players do not have the talent to punish any mistakes. So Henderson played vs SMU extensively, but not ready for Dook.

and she stressed that Queiroz has been here an extra semester and has learned more.

so the basic answer here is that while Henderson is easily top 8 on this team in individual talent, she is not top ten in team defense execution.

some of this a paraphrase. A lot us me reading between the lines.

Whether we agree with CB or not is certainly worthy of debate, Henderson passes every eye test to me. her hustle is top notch. And her offensive efficiency is at the top for this team. But I do remind myself that the coaches are working with much more information than we have.

also worth noting that Toomey did not play at Dook last year. She had a learning curve too (in coaches’ eyes at least.) henderson is part of a trend, not an outlier.

Yeah, I listened to the press conference response regarding Henderson but it still left me wondering. If you have a talented player that contributes positively and is by all accounts smart, when do you trust them to learn? Via film or actual game action? IMO, ‘players’ play and adapt to the game. Henderson defends really well and her athleticism is valued even more versus a team like Duke with high caliber athletes throughout their lineup. Since she didn’t play her in this game to gain experience, I guess that means she won’t play her in the last game either?

Interesting though that Nyla B played without benefit of an extra semester.

 

[3397char]

Yeah, I listened to the press conference response regarding Henderson but it still left me wondering. If you have a talented player that contributes positively and is by all accounts smart, when do you trust them to learn? Via film or actual game action? IMO, ‘players’ play and adapt to the game. Henderson defends really well and her athleticism is valued even more versus a team like Duke with high caliber athletes throughout their lineup. Since she didn’t play her in this game to gain experience, I guess that means she won’t play her in the last game either?

Interesting though that Nyla B played without benefit of an extra semester.

Who Do you sit?

henderson played more often when hull was out injured.


we have people posting here at times saying Hull needs more minutes, Brooks needs more minutes, why was Harris out at the end of the game?

PT is a finite resource.

 

[Hvaheel]

Who Do you sit?

henderson played more often when hull was out injured.


we have people posting here at times saying Hull needs more minutes, Brooks needs more minutes, why was Harris out at the end of the game?

PT is a finite resource.

Perhaps better balance in the minutes allocated to the 3 and 4 positions. Fortunately we have a deep roster but it is of little value if CB doesn’t use it now in prep for the ACC and NCAA tourneys when it’s absolutely necessary. I can understand limited minutes based upon game to game scenarios but to not play her at all seems extreme.

 

[Lumbee63]

Who Do you sit?

henderson played more often when hull was out injured.


we have people posting here at times saying Hull needs more minutes, Brooks needs more minutes, why was Harris out at the end of the game?

PT is a finite resource.

IMHO, it’s not necessary the players minutes but the 3 out 2 system with both Toomer and Harris on the court at the same time. A 4 out 1 in system with Toomer and Harris rotating would solve a lot of issue as can be seen with many of our runs this year.

 

[tarboy]

I would have gotten Taliyah on the court at dook in the first half for 1 or 2 minutes just to reward her for her
hustle and good play. TH is going to be a great player and I want it to be at UNC.

 

[Jriv23]

The lack of FT's because the referees called it one sided IMO was the difference in the game. I hope NC State can beat Duke on Thursday. It is going to be tough because they have to play them at Duke. Let us see if they are able to shot any free throws at this game because the referees surely did not want us to shot any with the lack of calls they were making.

 

[Jriv23]

I agree with what CB stated in the video. This team has grown up since November. The freshmen are coming and you can see the improvement of the whole entire team. Go Heels!

 

[3397char]

Worth noting that Henderson gets 11.2 MPG and has played in 25 of 27 games. It is not like she is out of the rotation. just the dook game and the KState games that she missed.

There are 10 players who average 11+ minutes per game at UNC, all playing in at least 75% of UNC games (only Queiroz of that 10 has been benched more than 3 games when available.)

No other ACC team has 10 women earning double digit minutes and have played in a majority of games.

• 10 players: UNC
• 9 players: BC, FSU, GT, ville, Stan, cuse, UVA, VT
• 8 players: Cal, Clem, dook (Wikstrom only 14 games), Miami, NCSU, Pitt, SMU, WF
• 7 Players: ND

Conversely. Only UNC, BC and Louisville do not have a woman averaging at least 30 MPG. Grant leads UNC at 28.9, Carmody leads BC at 28.7, Roberts leads ville at 28.5

 

[Jriv23]

3397Char, I think you misunderstood what we are trying to say. I will say it like this. TH is good defender on the perimeter. She is tall, quick, and has length. IMO, when IN gets tire, I would put her in just to give IN a breather. TH would have been good to put on Jackson some. She is taller than IN. Her length and quickness would have given Jackson some problems, remember the Louisville game. Her rebounding on both ends and her shooting and driving ability would have helped out on the offensive end. This goes back to knowing your personnel and their strengths. When our team has to defend bigger guards on the perimeter she would be perfect to put in the game just to relieve IN for a few minutes. I thought that the game plan for Duke with perfect by CB and Staff. The only think they could not factor in was the FT disparity by the referees for this game. It is said that it came down to this. For a team to not get not one FT for the entire game is unheard of.

 

[3397char]

3397Char, I think you misunderstood what we are trying to say. I will say it like this. TH is good defender on the perimeter. She is tall, quick, and has length. IMO, when IN gets tire, I would put her in just to give IN a breather. TH would have been good to put on Jackson some. She is taller than IN. Her length and quickness would have given Jackson some problems, remember the Louisville game. Her rebounding on both ends and her shooting and driving ability would have helped out on the offensive end. This goes back to knowing your personnel and their strengths. When our team has to defend bigger guards on the perimeter she would be perfect to put in the game just to relieve IN for a few minutes. I thought that the game plan for Duke with perfect by CB and Staff. The only think they could not factor in was the FT disparity by the referees for this game. It is said that it came down to this. For a team to not get not one FT for the entire game is unheard of.

Dook does not do iso offense, allowing 1v1 defense to be successful alone. They use a ton of screen action with highly varied motions by both screener and ball handler after the screen. Which sets up options, and additional screens. Think of it as an ever branching tree of possible outcomes. dook has bigger trees with more branches than most teams.

you need to be able to fight through screens on and off ball, know when to help, how to help, when to switch, when to hedge etc... Banghart is telling us that Henderson is not yet managing that well, or at least not as well as others. Is that accurate? I have no ability to gauge that, both in my amateur ability to break down tape, and the fact that we often do not know what the play call is.

But I can tell you that when Henderson plays we play zone more often, which is not our preferred defense. And Henderson specifically tends to stay out of screen actions when she is the screener's defender. We switch or the ball handler's defender has to fight through it on their own. That is by design for Henderson's skills, but also not ideal. it is more conservative to avoid errors, but it gives the offense a free pass to use the screen as they see fit. .

UNC traditionally does MUCH better squelching dook's offense than just about any other team. So I am not going to question CB's defensive gameplan. But we fail at offense vs dook (they are perennially a top 10 defense in recent years) , though yesterday was our best showing in a while. Henderson is a very efficient offensive player. But so are Brooks, Hull and Queiroz; there is not much separation there. So CB's personnel decision in this game (and usually) seems to be a defensive one. And that is indeed what she said post game.

Henderson is an excellent replacement for Nivar to keep her minutes down below 30. (Nivar plays 27.7 per game, but can creep above 30 in closely contested games.) 30-ish is ideal for a top starter. So I have no argument there. But my point is that Hull and Brooks are also excellent back-ups. Queiroz too if we are playing a little bigger as needed.

So who do you sit to give TH more minutes in this game. Nivar had 31; was that too much? Queiroz played 22 min shooting 4 of 5 and leading the team in rebounds. was that a bad call? Hull got just 3 min, should Henderson have logged those 3 instead? Harris played on 22 as a starter and leading the team in scoring first half, 10 points . Should it have been even less? Brooks had 10 points in just 18 minutes. Should she have sat more?

In this game at least, Henderson was odd woman out among 5 great choices. I believe that UNC has 11 players who would start or play 6th woman on over 1/2 of ACC teams. But it is REALLY hard to play 11 women consistently in a rotation and maintain team cohesion on the floor. Especially when so many are similar type.

Henderson and Brooks have a higher ceiling than anyone else on this team. I get it. They have a high potential to be future stars. We need them to stay an grow. I feel that too. But the coaches do not get to play for next year. We do not want them to play for next year. At least not when team goals for this year are still achievable.

I definitely agree on the FT disparity. Never seen anything like it.

 

[tarboy]

Taliyah should have been put in the game for 2 minutes or so in the first half just to not be left out
of getting on the court. I would bet she would have made a play.

 

[uman1]

I thought the coaching and substitution patterns were on point.

Dook does not do iso offense, allowing 1v1 defense to be successful alone. They use a ton of screen action with highly varied motions by both screener and ball handler after the screen. Which sets up options, and additional screens. Think of it as an ever branching tree of possible outcomes. dook has bigger trees with more branches than most teams.

you need to be able to fight through screens on and off ball, know when to help, how to help, when to switch, when to hedge etc... Banghart is telling us that Henderson is not yet managing that well, or at least not as well as others. Is that accurate? I have no ability to gauge that, both in my amateur ability to break down tape, and the fact that we often do not know what the play call is.

But I can tell you that when Henderson plays we play zone more often, which is not our preferred defense. And Henderson specifically tends to stay out of screen actions when she is the screener's defender. We switch or the ball handler's defender has to fight through it on their own. That is by design for Henderson's skills, but also not ideal. it is more conservative to avoid errors, but it gives the offense a free pass to use the screen as they see fit. .

UNC traditionally does MUCH better squelching dook's offense than just about any other team. So I am not going to question CB's defensive gameplan. But we fail at offense vs dook (they are perennially a top 10 defense in recent years) , though yesterday was our best showing in a while. Henderson is a very efficient offensive player. But so are Brooks, Hull and Queiroz; there is not much separation there. So CB's personnel decision in this game (and usually) seems to be a defensive one. And that is indeed what she said post game.

Henderson is an excellent replacement for Nivar to keep her minutes down below 30. (Nivar plays 27.7 per game, but can creep above 30 in closely contested games.) 30-ish is ideal for a top starter. So I have no argument there. But my point is that Hull and Brooks are also excellent back-ups. Queiroz too if we are playing a little bigger as needed.

So who do you sit to give TH more minutes in this game. Nivar had 31; was that too much? Queiroz played 22 min shooting 4 of 5 and leading the team in rebounds. was that a bad call? Hull got just 3 min, should Henderson have logged those 3 instead? Harris played on 22 as a starter and leading the team in scoring first half, 10 points . Should it have been even less? Brooks had 10 points in just 18 minutes. Should she have sat more?

In this game at least, Henderson was odd woman out among 5 great choices. I believe that UNC has 11 players who would start or play 6th woman on over 1/2 of ACC teams. But it is REALLY hard to play 11 women consistently in a rotation and maintain team cohesion on the floor. Especially when so many are similar type.

Henderson and Brooks have a higher ceiling than anyone else on this team. I get it. They have a high potential to be future stars. We need them to stay an grow. I feel that too. But the coaches do not get to play for next year. We do not want them to play for next year. At least not when team goals for this year are still achievable.

I definitely agree on the FT disparity. Never seen anything like it.

Excellent post.

 

[Jriv23]

Thanks 3397Char. Excellent points. I would have gotten her in there for at least 2 to 5 minutes. I totally agree that this is a good problem to have right now.