Does Jawing at the Ref Help?

[Conn53victor]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

 

[whynot?]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

Good comment, what do you experts think?

 

[Hawkfan_08*]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

Effectively- Izzo and it's annoying.
Ineffective- Fran

It took me a few years but I realized yelling does nothing most of the time. Sometimes I can tell my players play a little harder because they feel like I have their back. I never go over the top, even when really mad. What's been the most effective is trying to have calm conversations between breaks. That's now what we are expected to do with a threat of a T. That rule didn't get followed well this year...

I've only had 1 T in 18 years of coaching and that was as a varsity assistant for asking about a 3 second call down about 20 with 3 minutes gone in the second quarter.

 

[Anon1750875978]

You "jaw" at the refs not to get a call changed, but rather to get the next close call or a "makeup" call later in the game.

Hell, I did it when I coached my girls in their youth sports 35 years ago.

It usually works if you can refrain from swearing.

 

[Nvhwk]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

It worked for bob knight

 

[Skydog0784a!]

I referee up to and including HS basketball and it’s a function of how the coach presents the argument (at least how I referee).

if it’s presented logically, calmly (which most do), and valid then I respect that and will be on the lookout. If it’s yelling, constant complaining, etc., then I assure you every 50/50 (maybe more) call goes against them - just to make a point until they’re respectful. Same with the players.

I wouldn’t say I do a makeup call as much as I have heightened awareness of what the input from the coach is.

I can’t speak to the college level.

 

[Burghawk87]

I referee up to HS basketball and it’s a function of how the coach presents the argument (at least how I referee).

if it’s presented logically, calmly (which most do), and valid then I respect that and will be on the lookout. If it’s yelling, constant complaining, etc., then I assure you every 50/50 (maybe more) call goes against them - just to make a point until they’re respectful. Same with the players.

I wouldn’t say I do a makeup call as much as I have heightened awareness of what the input from the coach is.

I can’t speak to the college level.

Along those lines, are you innately more inclined to swallow your whistle when a kid yells "and 1"? Because I hate that so much.

 

[SCHawkFan]

There is a fine line between complaining and pointing out inconsistent calls. Telling a ref they missed a call or got one wrong can influence how they see the game. How often do you hear the announcers use the phrase "make-up call"?

 

[Skydog0784a!]

Along those lines, are you innately more inclined to swallow your whistle when a kid yells "and 1"? Because I hate that so much.

Yes, I do. I swallow the whistle (unless blatantly obvious) in that circumstance as well as scenarios in my initial post. The “and 1” is so overused that it’s become nearly meaningless. I know one ref who warned the kids and coaches he’d tee any kid up that did that. Just what he told me, I don’t know if he actually did.

 

[Burghawk87]

Yes, I do. I swallow the whistle (unless blatantly obvious) in that circumstance as well as scenarios in my initial post. The “and 1” is so overused that it’s become nearly meaningless. I know one ref who warned the kids and coaches he’d tee any kid up that did that. Just what he told me, I don’t know if he actually did.

I used to ref high school soccer and if kids would realize that whining about every call actively hurts their case... I'm not going to listen to your complaint even if you have a legitimate gripe because how am I supposed to tell which wolf is real. I just ignored them all if that was their approach. (Edit, same applies to coaches and doubly as the players likely feed off that same energy)

 

[Mister_Man]

Effectively- Izzo and it's annoying.
Ineffective- Fran

First thing that came to my mind. Fran was just inviting them to F his team over.

 

[DukeSlater]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

Ask Tom Izzo if you want an expert opinion.

 

[bobchawk]

It worked for bob knight

What's funny about Knight and izzo. During warmups before games you see them both out holding court talking with all 3 referees.
Just chatting them up like nothing else.
I would say this works pretty well

 

[bobchawk]

Calipari, Hurley, Self, ISU guy. Look at a lot of the top coaches and they all seem to have the it factor.
They can chew on refs and seem to get calls afterwards.
When Fran would chew it went the other way.
McCollum is respectful so far but the results are mixed. The Indiana game was about the best officiated games I can recall
Others not so much.

 

[Tom Paris]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

Last night our head coach rightly pointed out our girl got hammered. 10 seconds later the ref called the lightest touch foul of the night. Head coach laughed. I said, “That’s a f you foul.”

 

[Tom Paris]

There is a fine line between complaining and pointing out inconsistent calls. Telling a ref they missed a call or got one wrong can influence how they see the game. How often do you hear the announcers use the phrase "make-up call"?

Make up calls are a real thing.

 

[whynot?]

Make up calls are a real thing.

No doubt about it !

 

[whynot?]

Last night our head coach rightly pointed out our girl got hammered. 10 seconds later the ref called the lightest touch foul of the night. Head coach laughed. I said, “That’s a f you foul.”

Tom, serious question here, my daughter played college hoops 20 years ago, at that time officials quit calling carrying the ball. You still couldn’t move on screens or take 3-4 steps while you high dribble. Then now we have this Eurostep , which is a walk. Back then, in order to pick up a charge, you had to be set for 5 minutes smoking a cigarette before they would even consider anything but a block.

So the question is when did this all change, why did this change and who changed it!

thanks

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

Usually no, unless you're a successful older coach who is also a colossal prick or a massive b**** (in the case of the ladies i.e. Mulkey).

The refs seem to have that "oh you....stop" playful thought process behind listening to these "almighty" venerable veteran coaches bark at them. Either that or they're genuinely scared, if they're younger, because they know what kind of pull these older coaches can have with the jobs these refs get (and don't get).

Otherwise, no.........the vast majority of the time, it's in one ear and out the other, much like when trying to teach students or coach players who act like they have a "listening" disability.


And then you wonder why so many people get frustrated...........

And yes, there's very much the other side of the argument with immature coaches who make it their "character" to go after officials for every perceived slight.



..........and then you wonder why so many people get frustrated.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

depends on how much you've earned it as a coach. Sometimes it's the years you've put in sometimes it's what you've accomplished.

 

[Rifler]

I think a coach needs to remind officials that they are present and have an opinion,.. Without some level of interaction you will be left to the official's abilities, and the influence of the opposing coaching staff, and crowd.

 

[TrojanHawkeye]

Calipari, Hurley, Self, ISU guy. Look at a lot of the top coaches and they all seem to have the it factor.
They can chew on refs and seem to get calls afterwards.
When Fran would chew it went the other way.
McCollum is respectful so far but the results are mixed. The Indiana game was about the best officiated games I can recall
Others not so much.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Generally, I don't see much benefit for a coach to complain to the ref about an individual call or calls in general. In fact, if I were a ref (I would never do that), it might tick me off enough to subconsciously bias me against a team that complains too much. So educate me about the effectiveness of working refs. In particular, who are the coaches who effectively and ineffectively lobby coaches? I assume that opinions here will particularly vary depending on voices from coaches, refs, and fans.

DISCLAIMER: I often don't know what I am talking about. I feel right at home on this forum.

Depends on who the coach is....

If the last name is Izzo, yes.