Dean Smith’s Four Corners

[wcc31]

I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

 

[CatPhight_rivals65113]

 

[dlh331]

I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

It was awful watching the game. UNC jumped out of 10-12 point lead and we played catch up the whole game.

We would have been back to back champs in 77 and 78 had we won that game.

That final four group the next weekend was one of the weakest in history.

 

[YouKay]

Ugh. I almost got PTSD watching the clips of that game. I was there in the U.K. band. It was awful.

UNC didn’t actually go to the Four Corners until their hotshot PG Phil Ford fouled out in the second half. Then some putz named John Kuester came on and ran it. He made like 15 free throws in the second half. Paul Galvan was the head ref and he was the John Higgins of that era. UK had clawed all the way back with a few minutes left but Galvan sent Kuester to the line repeatedly and he made all of them.

Watching Higgins screw U.K. in 2017 brought back a lot of bad memories of that 1977 game.

At least UNC didn’t go on and win that championship. Marquette was kind of a team of destiny that year and everyone loved Al McGuire. Dean Smith had the monkey on his back until he finally won it in 1982 c

 

[rick64]

Digger Phelps pulled that crap vs UK at a game back in Louisville in 1981.

Kentucky vs. Notre Dame (December 29, 1981)

www.bigbluehistory.net

 

[Lempface]

There are the rules and then there is the spirit of the game. If you intentionally exploit the rules at the detriment of the spirit of the game then fck you!

I remember playing a version of Madden and the guy figured out on kick offs that if he put the fastest WR on the outside left and kicked the ball high and at a precise angle he could repeatedly catch the kick off and retain possession. The way that version worked it was almost impossible to get a player in the area to contest it based on the way the camera worked and rotated on a kick off.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. See: flopping, jumping into defenders, and headsnaps.

 

[John Henry]

I hate Mississippi State to this day because of "The Stall". They were like North Carolina and had it mastered. It is too bad you have to change a rule to make basketball teams play basketball but had that rule not changed, basketball would have died a slow death.

It was horrible basketball.

 

[katwest]

It was awful watching the game. UNC jumped out of 10-12 point lead and we played catch up the whole game.

We would have been back to back champs in 77 and 78 had we won that game.

That final four group the next weekend was one of the weakest in history.

I also remember Joe B Hall not playing them any more, Kentucky still kicked their butt though.

 

[serdi]

That was the game that he called Robey at Piece of **** and then after the game didn't even shake Joe B's hand.

 

[childe]

Digger Phelps pulled that crap vs UK at a game back in Louisville in 1981.

Kentucky vs. Notre Dame (December 29, 1981)

www.bigbluehistory.net

I was there. Our family drove from Corbin to go to that game. Fans loudly booed Digger the whole game because of his choice to go four corners. My uncle, a Catholic, went hoarse in the first half from yelling at Digger.

Decades later, every time I saw him on ESPN I remembered that game. I don't care how smart everyone in the media thought he was, he set basketball back in that game.

Tony Yates tried the same thing with Cincinnati vs UK in the 1983. Kentucky won 24-11.

 

[blubo]

I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

That game is why we haven’t played uc since, unless in the tourny, and one of the reasons for the shot clock.

 

[H00SIER-Cat]

I played on a city parks department league years ago and we were down about 20. the other team played four corners the whole 2nd half. it was awful.

 

[MNantz]

I hated Dean Smith even more than I did Bobby Knight after that if that was possible!

 

[bthaunert]

Ugh. I almost got PTSD watching the clips of that game. I was there in the U.K. band. It was awful.

UNC didn’t actually go to the Four Corners until their hotshot PG Phil Ford fouled out in the second half. Then some putz named John Kuester came on and ran it. He made like 15 free throws in the second half. Paul Galvan was the head ref and he was the John Higgins of that era. UK had clawed all the way back with a few minutes left but Galvan sent Kuester to the line repeatedly and he made all of them.

Watching Higgins screw U.K. in 2017 brought back a lot of bad memories of that 1977 game.

At least UNC didn’t go on and win that championship. Marquette was kind of a team of destiny that year and everyone loved Al McGuire. Dean Smith had the monkey on his back until he finally won it in 1982 c

I was too young at the time to even watch the game, but I was just reading up on it and watching the 2nd half. Looks like Ford drew his 4th foul and was injured in the process and out for the remainder of the game. That was less than a minute into the 2nd half (side note, it was a terrible call - 5:22 of the video). But watching this video pisses me off, so I can only imagine what you all thought watching the game.

 

[akaukswoosh]

The shot clock was implemented by the NBA in the 1950s. It took thirty years for college basketball to start using it. smh

 

[legalbeagle123]

Dean Smith cheated for years and played chicken basketball. Total fraud.

 

[musrat59]

The four corners was boring as hell unless you were a Tarhole fan.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

I hated Dean Smith even more than I did Bobby Knight after that if that was possible!

Not me. Smith was bad and I could not stand him, but nobody was as bad as knight. He was the sorriest piece of **** that has ever been associated with basketball in my lifetime. I remember the indiana announcer chuck marlowe who worshiped the ground that knight walked on and every time marlowe interviewed him knight tried his best to make marlowe look like a dumb ***. Knight is just a miserable human being and indiana people still worship him. That is something that I just can't understand.

 

[TeoJ]

Agree with this

 

[uk78_rivals88018]

All of this is not unlike judging the past based upon today's knowledge and understanding. It was a strategy utilized since there was no shot clock. However, there were rules in place that you could employ a defense to try and turn the ball over, and in some ways it made basketball more of a thinking man's game as to when to stall or not. Saying Dean Smith was a bad guy for using an allowed strategy is like saying Pitino was bad for having players only take 3 pointers.

I would not describe it at the time as boring but rather more as frustrating. It also could make the playing field a bit more equal as some programs at the time were likely to have most of the talent so if you just ran fast offense being one of those programs you almost assuredly would lose. The over-use probably brought about the college shot clock but I think it is disingenuous to criticize Dean Smith for it or call him a coward. His job was to win games as it is any coach today. There are other things we can point fingers at regarding Smith.

I am glad they got rid of it although many here including me will suggest that Cal's version of stall ball cost us against Wisconsin and some other games perhaps even Miss State more recently.

 

[Lempface]

All of this is not unlike judging the past based upon today's knowledge and understanding. It was a strategy utilized since there was no shot clock. However, there were rules in place that you could employ a defense to try and turn the ball over, and in some ways it made basketball more of a thinking man's game as to when to stall or not. Saying Dean Smith was a bad guy for using an allowed strategy is like saying Pitino was bad for having players only take 3 pointers.

I would not describe it at the time as boring but rather more as frustrating. It also could make the playing field a bit more equal as some programs at the time were likely to have most of the talent so if you just ran fast offense being one of those programs you almost assuredly would lose. The over-use probably brought about the college shot clock but I think it is disingenuous to criticize Dean Smith for it or call him a coward. His job was to win games as it is any coach today. There are other things we can point fingers at regarding Smith.

I am glad they got rid of it although many here including me will suggest that Cal's version of stall ball cost us against Wisconsin and some other games perhaps even Miss State more recently.

Because ole' peach baskets himself designed the game to throw a ball in a hoop not play keep away. Why do you think the rules were altered, because it was awful.

 

[westerncat]

Some of us older fans lived through this 4 corners scrap and that was not the way basketball was supposed to be played. Thank God they came out with the shot clock and put an end to that.

 

[TortElvisII]

I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

Should be beside chicken **** in the dictionary.

I was 11. Ready for title. I hate Carolina more than Duke. At least K would run with you.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

Calipari uses stall ball with the opposite success.

 

[TeoJ]

Robey took someone out on a lay up late in game and Smith was talking to the ref,I made a comment I hope he's out of the game.The bartender said you don't mean

 

[TortElvisII]

UNC shot about 80 free throws between UK and Notre Dame. Made about 75. Notre Dame was good but KY was better. I learned to hate refs that day.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Are there any other coaches with more talent and less titles than Dean Smith, Cal and Lute Olson? The only other ones I could think of would be maybe Self or Sean Miller.

 

[catzfanjim]

Dean Smith invented the 4 corners and fake classes at UNC.

 

[richbrookstomato]

The 4 corner offense and Dean Smith are the reason I hate UNC way worse than Duke. That 1977 Regional Final game was one of the most frustrating losses in my lifetime. Playing that way was a coward’s way which epitomized UNC and Dean Smith.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

I'm too young to remember the 4 corners. Pretty sure it was done when I was born. But in 8th grade my coach at the Boys Club had us run it. I hated it.

 

[UKRuppster]

How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

Apparently being the ringleader of a fake class scandal that I think he began because he felt threatened by Coach K and Duke, and barely being able to win one of his national titles with a guy many consider to be the G.O.A.T. in Michael Jordan, another Hall of Famer in James Worthy and another NBA player who had a long, productive career in Sam Perkins is what makes you 'great' nowadays. That and generally doing way less than you'd expect with all the NBA level talent that he accumulated.

Eh. I'll concede that Dean Smith is one of the great frauds in sports history. I can give him that much, but not a whole lot else.

 

[GGCAT]

The 77 game was the earliest one that I can tell you exactly where I was watching it.

Bashford Manor Mall (Louisville) used to have these sunken areas in the middle of the mall where you could walk down into and watch television.

So while Mom shopped, young GGCAT watched the game and got angrier and angrier the longer the stall played out. Probably spewed out more curse words than a 12 yr old shouldve.

Was in near tears when Mom came to get me, she thought I had been bullied or something......(she didn't get sports)

All that came rushing back last night watching clips of the free throw parade the Heels conducted in the 2nd half.

 

[UKRuppster]

The best thing about Dean Smith is a running joke about him that he was the only one who could manage to stop Michael Jordan

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Apparently being the ringleader of a fake class scandal that I think he began because he felt threatened by Coach K and Duke, and barely being able to win one of his national titles with a guy many consider to be the G.O.A.T. in Michael Jordan, another Hall of Famer in James Worthy and another NBA player who had a long, productive career in Sam Perkins is what makes you 'great' nowadays. That and generally doing way less than you'd expect with all the NBA level talent that he accumulated.

his two titles came from a bad pass and Chris Webber calling time out

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

The best thing about Dean Smith is a running joke about him that he was the only one who could manage to stop Michael Jordan

That was not true. Dan Dakich shut jordan's *** down the last half of the last game that jordan played in college, yes that Dan Dakich. I was hoping both teams would loose that game, because I couldn't stand smith, and totally hate knight.

 

[Trinity45]

I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

I remember that game and several others when Dean played that god awful four corners. He changed basketball because of it, shot clock etc.

 

[CatPhight_rivals65113]

The shot clock was implemented by the NBA in the 1950s. It took thirty years for college basketball to start using it. smh

Meanwhile dunking, even in warmups was a technical foul.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

I'm too young to remember the 4 corners. Pretty sure it was done when I was born. But in 8th grade my coach at the Boys Club had us run it. I hated it.

Then your coach sucked, that crap ruined the game until they finally put in the shot clock.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Then your coach sucked, that crap ruined the game until they finally put in the shot clock.

Oh he was awful. His son was on the team and our entire game plan for 2 years was "Give my kid the ball"

 

[UK4number9]

The 4 corner offense and Dean Smith are the reason I hate UNC way worse than Duke. That 1977 Regional Final game was one of the most frustrating losses in my lifetime. Playing that way was a coward’s way which epitomized UNC and Dean Smith.

And he is treated like a god. No one did less with more than smith. 2 titles were handed to him by the opponent.