Dean Smith’s Four Corners

wcc31

Heisman
Mar 18, 2002
27,068
88,876
98
I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.
 
Nov 15, 2008
38,645
57,515
0
 

dlh331

Heisman
Jan 4, 2003
28,790
22,916
113
I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

It was awful watching the game. UNC jumped out of 10-12 point lead and we played catch up the whole game.

We would have been back to back champs in 77 and 78 had we won that game.

That final four group the next weekend was one of the weakest in history.
 

YouKay

Heisman
May 15, 2002
35,671
31,767
113
Ugh. I almost got PTSD watching the clips of that game. I was there in the U.K. band. It was awful.

UNC didn’t actually go to the Four Corners until their hotshot PG Phil Ford fouled out in the second half. Then some putz named John Kuester came on and ran it. He made like 15 free throws in the second half. Paul Galvan was the head ref and he was the John Higgins of that era. UK had clawed all the way back with a few minutes left but Galvan sent Kuester to the line repeatedly and he made all of them.

Watching Higgins screw U.K. in 2017 brought back a lot of bad memories of that 1977 game.

At least UNC didn’t go on and win that championship. Marquette was kind of a team of destiny that year and everyone loved Al McGuire. Dean Smith had the monkey on his back until he finally won it in 1982 c
 

Lempface

Heisman
Feb 16, 2009
12,159
20,638
98
There are the rules and then there is the spirit of the game. If you intentionally exploit the rules at the detriment of the spirit of the game then fck you!

I remember playing a version of Madden and the guy figured out on kick offs that if he put the fastest WR on the outside left and kicked the ball high and at a precise angle he could repeatedly catch the kick off and retain possession. The way that version worked it was almost impossible to get a player in the area to contest it based on the way the camera worked and rotated on a kick off.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. See: flopping, jumping into defenders, and headsnaps.
 

John Henry

Hall of Famer
Aug 18, 2007
35,574
172,795
113
I hate Mississippi State to this day because of "The Stall". They were like North Carolina and had it mastered. It is too bad you have to change a rule to make basketball teams play basketball but had that rule not changed, basketball would have died a slow death.

It was horrible basketball.
 

katwest

Heisman
Feb 16, 2003
40,149
14,349
113
It was awful watching the game. UNC jumped out of 10-12 point lead and we played catch up the whole game.

We would have been back to back champs in 77 and 78 had we won that game.

That final four group the next weekend was one of the weakest in history.
I also remember Joe B Hall not playing them any more, Kentucky still kicked their butt though.
 

childe

All-Conference
Feb 1, 2006
1,406
1,277
0
Digger Phelps pulled that crap vs UK at a game back in Louisville in 1981.

I was there. Our family drove from Corbin to go to that game. Fans loudly booed Digger the whole game because of his choice to go four corners. My uncle, a Catholic, went hoarse in the first half from yelling at Digger.

Decades later, every time I saw him on ESPN I remembered that game. I don't care how smart everyone in the media thought he was, he set basketball back in that game.

Tony Yates tried the same thing with Cincinnati vs UK in the 1983. Kentucky won 24-11.
 

blubo

Heisman
Oct 14, 2014
22,273
85,181
78
I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.
That game is why we haven’t played uc since, unless in the tourny, and one of the reasons for the shot clock.
 

H00SIER-Cat

All-Conference
Dec 6, 2016
2,074
4,880
0
I played on a city parks department league years ago and we were down about 20. the other team played four corners the whole 2nd half. it was awful.
 

bthaunert

Heisman
Apr 4, 2007
29,518
21,619
0
Ugh. I almost got PTSD watching the clips of that game. I was there in the U.K. band. It was awful.

UNC didn’t actually go to the Four Corners until their hotshot PG Phil Ford fouled out in the second half. Then some putz named John Kuester came on and ran it. He made like 15 free throws in the second half. Paul Galvan was the head ref and he was the John Higgins of that era. UK had clawed all the way back with a few minutes left but Galvan sent Kuester to the line repeatedly and he made all of them.

Watching Higgins screw U.K. in 2017 brought back a lot of bad memories of that 1977 game.

At least UNC didn’t go on and win that championship. Marquette was kind of a team of destiny that year and everyone loved Al McGuire. Dean Smith had the monkey on his back until he finally won it in 1982 c
I was too young at the time to even watch the game, but I was just reading up on it and watching the 2nd half. Looks like Ford drew his 4th foul and was injured in the process and out for the remainder of the game. That was less than a minute into the 2nd half (side note, it was a terrible call - 5:22 of the video). But watching this video pisses me off, so I can only imagine what you all thought watching the game.

 

TheOtherGreatOne

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2003
3,005
3,365
0
I hated Dean Smith even more than I did Bobby Knight after that if that was possible!
Not me. Smith was bad and I could not stand him, but nobody was as bad as knight. He was the sorriest piece of **** that has ever been associated with basketball in my lifetime. I remember the indiana announcer chuck marlowe who worshiped the ground that knight walked on and every time marlowe interviewed him knight tried his best to make marlowe look like a dumb ***. Knight is just a miserable human being and indiana people still worship him. That is something that I just can't understand.
 

uk78_rivals88018

All-American
Feb 6, 2003
12,401
8,783
0
All of this is not unlike judging the past based upon today's knowledge and understanding. It was a strategy utilized since there was no shot clock. However, there were rules in place that you could employ a defense to try and turn the ball over, and in some ways it made basketball more of a thinking man's game as to when to stall or not. Saying Dean Smith was a bad guy for using an allowed strategy is like saying Pitino was bad for having players only take 3 pointers.

I would not describe it at the time as boring but rather more as frustrating. It also could make the playing field a bit more equal as some programs at the time were likely to have most of the talent so if you just ran fast offense being one of those programs you almost assuredly would lose. The over-use probably brought about the college shot clock but I think it is disingenuous to criticize Dean Smith for it or call him a coward. His job was to win games as it is any coach today. There are other things we can point fingers at regarding Smith.

I am glad they got rid of it although many here including me will suggest that Cal's version of stall ball cost us against Wisconsin and some other games perhaps even Miss State more recently.
 
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Lempface

Heisman
Feb 16, 2009
12,159
20,638
98
All of this is not unlike judging the past based upon today's knowledge and understanding. It was a strategy utilized since there was no shot clock. However, there were rules in place that you could employ a defense to try and turn the ball over, and in some ways it made basketball more of a thinking man's game as to when to stall or not. Saying Dean Smith was a bad guy for using an allowed strategy is like saying Pitino was bad for having players only take 3 pointers.

I would not describe it at the time as boring but rather more as frustrating. It also could make the playing field a bit more equal as some programs at the time were likely to have most of the talent so if you just ran fast offense being one of those programs you almost assuredly would lose. The over-use probably brought about the college shot clock but I think it is disingenuous to criticize Dean Smith for it or call him a coward. His job was to win games as it is any coach today. There are other things we can point fingers at regarding Smith.

I am glad they got rid of it although many here including me will suggest that Cal's version of stall ball cost us against Wisconsin and some other games perhaps even Miss State more recently.
Because ole' peach baskets himself designed the game to throw a ball in a hoop not play keep away. Why do you think the rules were altered, because it was awful.
 

TortElvisII

Heisman
May 7, 2010
51,700
96,942
66
I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.

Should be beside chicken **** in the dictionary.

I was 11. Ready for title. I hate Carolina more than Duke. At least K would run with you.
 

TeoJ

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
24,736
21,117
65
Robey took someone out on a lay up late in game and Smith was talking to the ref,I made a comment I hope he's out of the game.The bartender said you don't mean
 

TortElvisII

Heisman
May 7, 2010
51,700
96,942
66
UNC shot about 80 free throws between UK and Notre Dame. Made about 75. Notre Dame was good but KY was better. I learned to hate refs that day.
 
May 31, 2018
15,280
30,690
98
Are there any other coaches with more talent and less titles than Dean Smith, Cal and Lute Olson? The only other ones I could think of would be maybe Self or Sean Miller.
 
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WildcatFan1982

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
21,376
17,683
81
I'm too young to remember the 4 corners. Pretty sure it was done when I was born. But in 8th grade my coach at the Boys Club had us run it. I hated it.
 

UKRuppster

All-Conference
Apr 14, 2018
2,111
2,090
0
How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

Apparently being the ringleader of a fake class scandal that I think he began because he felt threatened by Coach K and Duke, and barely being able to win one of his national titles with a guy many consider to be the G.O.A.T. in Michael Jordan, another Hall of Famer in James Worthy and another NBA player who had a long, productive career in Sam Perkins is what makes you 'great' nowadays. That and generally doing way less than you'd expect with all the NBA level talent that he accumulated.

Eh. I'll concede that Dean Smith is one of the great frauds in sports history. I can give him that much, but not a whole lot else.
 

GGCAT

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2003
3,240
2,198
113
The 77 game was the earliest one that I can tell you exactly where I was watching it.

Bashford Manor Mall (Louisville) used to have these sunken areas in the middle of the mall where you could walk down into and watch television.

So while Mom shopped, young GGCAT watched the game and got angrier and angrier the longer the stall played out. Probably spewed out more curse words than a 12 yr old shouldve.

Was in near tears when Mom came to get me, she thought I had been bullied or something......(she didn't get sports)

All that came rushing back last night watching clips of the free throw parade the Heels conducted in the 2nd half.
 

UKRuppster

All-Conference
Apr 14, 2018
2,111
2,090
0
The best thing about Dean Smith is a running joke about him that he was the only one who could manage to stop Michael Jordan 😆
 

WildcatFan1982

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
21,376
17,683
81
Apparently being the ringleader of a fake class scandal that I think he began because he felt threatened by Coach K and Duke, and barely being able to win one of his national titles with a guy many consider to be the G.O.A.T. in Michael Jordan, another Hall of Famer in James Worthy and another NBA player who had a long, productive career in Sam Perkins is what makes you 'great' nowadays. That and generally doing way less than you'd expect with all the NBA level talent that he accumulated.

his two titles came from a bad pass and Chris Webber calling time out
 

TheOtherGreatOne

All-Conference
Feb 5, 2003
3,005
3,365
0
The best thing about Dean Smith is a running joke about him that he was the only one who could manage to stop Michael Jordan 😆
That was not true. Dan Dakich shut jordan's *** down the last half of the last game that jordan played in college, yes that Dan Dakich. I was hoping both teams would loose that game, because I couldn't stand smith, and totally hate knight.
 

Trinity45

All-American
Oct 26, 2005
3,403
5,299
113
I of course know about four corners but am too young to have witnessed it. Watching last night’s documentary and the ‘77 game against Carolina made my blood boil. What a cowardly BS way to play basketball. I can’t imagine experiencing that crap in real time.

My dad is still bitter about UC playing stall ball in ‘82 but at least they were a crap program. How can Dean Smith be considered one of the greats with THAT as his signature style?

It actually makes Coach K popularizing flopping and ruining the charge call palatable.
I remember that game and several others when Dean played that god awful four corners. He changed basketball because of it, shot clock etc.
 

UK4number9

All-Conference
Jun 25, 2020
3,653
2,349
0
The 4 corner offense and Dean Smith are the reason I hate UNC way worse than Duke. That 1977 Regional Final game was one of the most frustrating losses in my lifetime. Playing that way was a coward’s way which epitomized UNC and Dean Smith.
And he is treated like a god. No one did less with more than smith. 2 titles were handed to him by the opponent.
 
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