Dan Kane: NCAA Rejects UNCheat Arguments in Enforcement Case

[BBUK_anon]

Now that I've read it, I think it is much more damning for the ENTIRE athletic department than you suggest. Yes, there are many specific references to the women's basketball program. That's because it is a response to UNC's effort to dump the whole thing on the women's program, so the NCAA addresses those points.

But look at pages 30-40. Heavily redacted. But what can be read refers to the entire "athletic supporter" program that aided football players and men's basketball players. This response specifically addresses the comments by a tutor Amy Kleissler about the efforts to get fake grades for players. Readers of Dan Kane know she was a tutor for men's players.

Fixed

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

This is what I call a distinction without a difference.

The problem with Bilas is that he's put his lawyer hat on and has tried to view the NCAA Manual as if it was a strict legal document, and then proceeds to try to parse and ignore the bits that doesn't square with his bidders desires.

In this case, the NCAA manual is quite clear that the organization's intent is to be built on foundation of honesty, academic integrity and sportsmanship. In other words each institution is basically held to a standard that they will act in a professional, honest and forthright manner. UNC clearly was not keeping their end of the bargain in any of those aspects.

Bilas' argument is that in his opinion there isn't a specific rule that one can cite that for example says that the school can't utilize classes that are clearly fraudulent to keep their athletes eligible, but he's ignoring the the whole basis and core principles of the organization in making this case.

Beyond that, there are specific rules which can still be applied, but he ignores. For example there's a stipulation that every year the school is required to certify to the NCAA that their athletes remain in good academic standing and are on course to graduate. Mary Willingham herself has admitted that she's submitted such paperwork knowing full well it was based on fraudulent classes!

That by itself should be enough for the NCAA to rule against UNC and their scheme to defraud athletes of an actual eduction, in favor of giving their sports teams an advantage by allowing otherwise ineligible players to play.

JP, always enjoy reading your perspective--especially on this issue. Likewise, I agree with you, and I disagree with Bilas' (overly simplistic) take on the issue. In fact, I think Bilas misses the forest for the trees. I would agree with Bilas that the NCAA does not need to be in the business of determining what a "class" is, and there likely is no rule or bylaw specifically applicable in the proverbial "rulebook".

However, I feel the aforementioned position is very short-sighted. I am completely perplexed by the often-repeated position there is no evidence the men's BB program was involved (are people really serious when the say or write that?---of course MBB benefitted from this scheme. In all likelihood it was created for them and used by them for years ). Regardless, the scheme or classes existed for the sole purpose of preserving/creating ACADEMIC and by extension ATHLETIC eligibility . How is that not an impermissible benefit? How is ATHLETIC eligibility not within the control of the NCAA?

BTW, where r the feds? What about all of the Pell grant fraud? The athletes have to b eligible to receive them. This was all a sham/scheme. Everyone at UNC benefitted---by design. If the NCAA stands/means anything, one would think only the harshest of penalties are reserved for this type of scam/scheme. Maybe I'm more hopeful than rational, but I just don't get Bilas or UNC's take on this.

 

[Katdavcared]

As the worm turns:

The UNC Fake Class may have finally turned the corner and it would appear as though the NCAA actually is making some common sense. I highly recommend the story in the Raleigh News Observer.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article110315307.html

The article reads as follows: This should wet your appetite ---

“That cooperative spirit wasn’t in evidence Tuesday, when newly released correspondence showed the NCAA no longer views the university as a partner in the investigation. It instead cited the university’s “willful violations” and “blatant disregard” for NCAA regulations.”

And ---

“The NCAA saw Wainstein’s investigation as a turning point, after seven prior probes or reviews did not conclude that athletic eligibility helped drive the scandal in the African and Afro-American Studies department.”

Finally ---

“The new information provided, for the first time, a complete picture of the athletics department’s preferential access to anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses and, in some cases, how it used those courses to retain NCAA academic eligibility for student-athletes,” the NCAA’s enforcement staff wrote. “This access provided student-athletes with advantages that other students simply did not have.”

 

[GLR5555]

[eyeroll]

 

[hotelblue]

“The new information provided, for the first time, a complete picture of the athletics department’s preferential access to anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses and, in some cases, how it used those courses to retain NCAA academic eligibility for student-athletes,” the NCAA’s enforcement staff wrote. “This access provided student-athletes with advantages that other students simply did not have.”

good lord they're admitting what actually happened as being an unfair advantage for the student athletes. lets never lose this quote.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

Man, how did the entire board miss out on this when it happened three days ago?

 

[hotelblue]

Man, how did the entire board miss out on this when it happened three days ago?

i didn't read it the other day. saw the thread might have made a general comment. but anyway all i take is they put themselves on record and that is great.

 

[wildcat1515]

But they will say it wasn't the mens basketball team. It will be the womens volleyball, golf, swimming teams and so on. But not the mens basketball team.

 

[topps coach]

With this new information coming out Cleveland State is in real trouble now

 

[ulismyman]

I will politely say this before DR Roget comes on here and is condescending about it OP....its actually whet your appetite not wet

 

[Goingfor9]

With this new information coming out Cleveland State is in real trouble now

That's old

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

But they will say it wasn't the mens basketball team. It will be the womens volleyball, golf, swimming teams and so on. But not the mens basketball team.

I think this is exactly what everyone believes will happen. Sure UNCheat plays football, baseball, golf, etc. But, you had better believe ALL of the fake classes, fake grades and special benefits were intended to prop up the basketball program first and foremost.
Of course, the basketball program will also be punished the least as a result.

 

[Stu_Padaso_rivals383274]

Interesting turn of events indeed. Now will the NCAA actually go back and include Men's Basketball & the football team into the equation? We all know that NCAA is more about the money then the integrity of the game and/or the well being and education of it's athletes, but I hope they shock us all and start stripping banners in Chapel Hill and in Louisville.

 

[kybassfan]

I still have trouble seeing this as more than NC being charged with not assisting the NCAA in covering up the decades of academic fraud. The NCAA is furious at having to consider taking scholarships away from the NC basket weaving team.

The NC sports program is deserving of complete banishment. I doubt they'll be subject to more than the loud roar of a toothless lion.

 

[Big John Stud]

I think Bilas may have simply been talking about the classes themselves. He is right, the NCAA has no direct jurisdiction over classes. However, the NCAA isn't really talking about the classes, they are talking about the intent behind the classes and the effect the classes had, a scheme to maintain eligibility. That does fall under their jurisdiction.

Fake classes that dont exist and grades were given for to keep athletes eligible is in their jurisdiction, so is tutors writing papers for athletes, and unauthorized grade changes to keep athletes eligible. This is not about easy classes, thats kust Bilas' straw man arguement.

 

[wentzel25]

Nothing's gonna happen.
Anyone can see
That nothing's gonna happen
Nothing's gonna happen ... To them
Anyway the wind blows (gong)

 

[TheDude1]

I would do anything for that Willi guy from the national board to post here, since I cannot post there anymore... stupid "free" post limit

 

[GLR5555]

I would do anything for that Willi guy from the national board to post here, since I cannot post there anymore... stupid "free" post limit

WTF is a free post limit?

 

[jarms24]

I would do anything for that Willi guy from the national board to post here, since I cannot post there anymore... stupid "free" post limit

He sucks.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Fake classes that dont exist and grades were given for to keep athletes eligible is in their jurisdiction, so is tutors writing papers for athletes, and unauthorized grade changes to keep athletes eligible. This is not about easy classes, thats kust Bilas' straw man arguement.

I know what Bilas said and what the NCAA said in the document referenced in this thread. They are pulling in the classes indirectly through intent.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

The problem with attacking UNC for the fake class scandal is the NCAA in my mind has lost all credibility to regulate classes, grades, academics. When they chose to use the APR and then change it and remove it at their whim, it reduces the NCAAs importance on the matter of academics.

 

[TheDude1]

WTF is a free post limit?

Because the national board was getting hit with so much spam, I believe, they limited how many posts you can post if you are just a "free" member, as opposed to a subscriber. It sucks; I can only post on the national board like five times a day.

 

[TheDude1]

He sucks.

Holy **** he does. Just so ridiculously arrogant and sure of himself and the outcome, despite A) there hasn't been an outcome at all, and B) he seems, judging by his writing style and the like, to be a bit below-average in terms of brains. When he starts raving on about UNC mens basketball already being in the clear... it is just mind-blowing.

 

[jarms24]

The problem with attacking UNC for the fake class scandal is the NCAA in my mind has lost all credibility to regulate classes, grades, academics. When they chose to use the APR and then change it and remove it at their whim, it reduces the NCAAs importance on the matter of academics.

Funny that you mention the APR. Guess who invented that? Jack Evans. Guess who Jack Evans is? Yep, 3 time dean at UNC. Not only were they cheating for themselves, but they were gaming the system against others.

 

[trav55_rivals214556]

Have any of you tried to argue with a really stupid person before? You know what I mean. So stupid that you give a very simple and obviously correct point and they can't grasp it. Meanwhile, your mind is completely blown that someone could be that far off that you can't even really think about your next convincing thought because you're still having trouble comprehending that someone could be so mentally inept? Then you start to go back and forth wondering very seriously, "is this person just screwing with me" because surely they don't truly believe what they are saying. Well, that's this conversation with anyone, including Bilas, defending UNC. It's either because they want attention, need a talking point or are just playing devils advocate.

I constantly keep telling myself, these people are just trying to keep us all talking. There's no way they're being serious. I have to keep believing that. If I convince myself that they TRULY think that the NCAA does NOT have a say in this situation, I think I'll lose all hope in college sports, which are just hanging by a hopleless naive hair just to prolong the inevitable.

 

[GLR5555]

Have any of you tried to argue with a really stupid person before? You know what I mean. So stupid that you give a very simple and obviously correct point and they can't grasp it. Meanwhile, your mind is completely blown that someone could be that far off that you can't even really think about your next convincing thought because you're still having trouble comprehending that someone could be so mentally inept? Then you start to go back and forth wondering very seriously, "is this person just screwing with me" because surely they don't truly believe what they are saying. Well, that's this conversation with anyone, including Bilas, defending UNC. It's either because they want attention, need a talking point or are just playing devils advocate.

I constantly keep telling myself, these people are just trying to keep us all talking. There's no way they're being serious. I have to keep believing that. If I convince myself that they TRULY think that the NCAA does NOT have a say in this situation, I think I'll lose all hope in college sports, which are just hanging by a hopleless naive hair just to prolong the inevitable.

Zipp immediately comes to mind.

 

[trav55_rivals214556]

Zipp immediately comes to mind.

I wanted to like this post 275 times. But I can't. [thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2][thumb2]

Zip is the perfect example of an inexplicable moron.

 

[Ugoff]

Nothing's gonna happen.
Anyone can see
That nothing's gonna happen
Nothing's gonna happen ... To them
Anyway the wind blows (gong)

I'm just waitin' for the hammer to fall.

 

[maysvilleky]

Probably a way for the NCAA to enforce a fine and make themselves look like they are doing something.

 

[Katdavcared]

I think it would be exceptionally hypocritical for the NCAA to say what they did in this report and then to do nothing. This has to be a signal that something significant is coming the way of the Tar Heels

 

[LostinIndiana]

You don't take this public of a stance against someone and not mean business. Evidently UNC is not exactly thrilled about this because Kane said that it took him almost a month to get the paper work from the NCAA released. Just taking the old when there is smoke there is fire axiom here and questioning why you would spend millions of dollars on a defense before an organization (not the government) and there not be any credence to the whole thing.
No matter what comes out of this no UNC fan can crow about the Carolina Way any longer because it means something completely difference now.

 

[OldRed]

You don't take this public of a stance against someone and not mean business. Evidently UNC is not exactly thrilled about this because Kane said that it took him almost a month to get the paper work from the NCAA released. Just taking the old when there is smoke there is fire axiom here and questioning why you would spend millions of dollars on a defense before an organization (not the government) and there not be any credence to the whole thing.
No matter what comes out of this no UNC fan can crow about the Carolina Way any longer because it means something completely difference now.

I don't trust the corrupt NCAA to do the right thing.

 

[LostinIndiana]

They are only corrupt when it serves them. It appears as though they are beginning to understand that as long as a school cow tows to them then everything is fine. UNC is no longer doing that so they must flex nuts and put them in their place.

 

[bigbluelou]

I will politely say this before DR Roget comes on here and is condescending about it OP....its actually whet your appetite not wet

"it's"

 

[RacerX.ksr]

"it's"

Lou, good to see you back.

 

[Mikey Likes It]

No matter what comes out of this no UNC fan can crow about the Carolina Way any longer because it means something completely difference now.

no they still will by simply denying any of it ever happened even in the face of insurmountable evidence.

 

[bigbluelou]

Lou, good to see you back.

I lurk but haven't posted a lot. Now that bball season is starting you'll be blessed/cursed with my inane drivel more regularly.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

This has been a long off season.

 

[Xception]

The NCAA is trying to find that sweet spot punishment that will satiate certain lawmakers and other member schools without properly punishing UNC . They've already tried to blow it over previously and it has repeatedly backfired in their face . I can't wait to see how far they push the punishment meter this round . I think the amended noa was a response to the feedback from the original noa . The NCAA should go down with UNC for their major role in this debacle .

 

[JPScott]

The NCAA is trying to find that sweet spot punishment that will satiate certain lawmakers and other member schools without properly punishing UNC . They've already tried to blow it over previously and it has repeatedly backfired in their face . I can't wait to see how far they push the punishment meter this round . I think the amended noa was a response to the feedback from the original noa . The NCAA should go down with UNC for their major role in this debacle .

I think based on the way UNC acted during the process, especially late in the game once they felt that Men's Basketball and football would be spared, that the amended NOA was simply the result of literally months of negotiation to go along with a lot of lobbying and money spent by UNC to preserve their crown jewels.

The whole reporting of new violations was a last minute tactic to avoid answering the charges against MBB until they could renegotiate a dropping of those charges altogether.

If they had truly been interested in bringing this whole fiasco to a close quickly, as they claimed to the media, they could have reported their new violations but gone ahead and responded to the existing charges in the original NOA. But of course that was not their intent. Instead they wanted to delay until they got what they wanted, which was a dropping of those MBB and football-specific charges altogether.

The only thing surprising to me is that it took the NCAA this long to finally recognize that UNC was never acting as a trustworthy co-investigator in this issue.