Dan Kane: NCAA Rejects UNCheat Arguments in Enforcement Case

[akaukswoosh]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article110315307.html

 

[akaukswoosh]

Btw this is ACC-slurper Vitale's tweet on this. Nuff said.

Dick Vitale ‏@DickieV 3m3 minutes ago


This soap opera just keeps dragging on /a nightmare to lovers of @GoHeels @NCAA

 

[LeonThe Camel]

It all boils down to whether the NCAA can determine if a class is a class. That is what UNC is arguing.
Someone define is.

 

[Poetax]

Btw this is ACC-slurper Vitale's tweet on this. Nuff said.

Dick Vitale ‏@DickieV 3m3 minutes ago


This soap opera just keeps dragging on /a nightmare to lovers of @GoHeels @NCAA

And the same guy said that we ran Tubby out of town.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

It all boils down to whether the NCAA can determine if a class is a class. That is what UNC is arguing.
Someone define is.

"A class is what you don't attend at University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, as part of making the Dean's List and staying eligible to play basketball and football." How hard is that?

 

[gossie21_rivals69805]

And the same guy said that we ran Tubby out of town.

And actively campaigned against Donovan taking the job.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

This renews my hope, and to some extent my belief, that the minimum penalty for UNC coming out of this will be a ban from post season play of a year, and possibly two, for ALL programs in which athletes benefited from fake classes.

That, of course, would be a weak tap on the wrist -- not even a slap -- compared to the size of the crime. But at least it'd be a real punishment.

 

[Poetax]

I have to admit that the NCAA seem to now have a burr up their butt with the attitude change by unc. If unc would have been smart and stayed humbled and accepted the mild slap on the wrist, they might have gotten out of this free and clear.

 

[Crankdatmustard_rivals66299]

This is pretty significant.

 

[Macys Socks]

boo ****ing hoo. They were cheating for 30+ ****ing years. Who gives a **** how long it drags on?

I agree with Dickie V, it has been drawn out way too long.

They should have been punished LONG ago :victory:

 

[Blueisbest]

Vitale doesn't want to admit that one of his two favorite schools has been cheating for decades. His idol Dean Smith was a crooked SOB and it has been continuing all the way up to Dadgum Roy.

Now it is up to the NCAA to determine the punishment. The correct punishment is vacating hundreds of wins and 2 or 3 championships. We all know the NCAA will not do that. I look for the cheating Tarholes to get little or no penalties for years of cheating.

 

[akaukswoosh]

boo ****ing hoo. They were cheating for 30+ ****ing years. Who gives a **** how long it drags on?

:clap:

 

[westerncat]

I believe UNC*** will be punished when I see it. They should have been punished already.

 

[GLR5555]

They should currently be in the rebuilding phase. However, the fire hasn't even started.

 

[Crankdatmustard_rivals66299]

actually I just read the entire response from the NCAA to UNC. There isn't one mention of Men's basketball in the 80 page report. Only Women's Basketball :joy:

 

[topps coach]

I would love to see them get hammered but I have said that they probably wouldn't.Imo the best you could hope for was no quick resolution so their recruiting would continue to suck.They should be ok this year but their talent level for next year is bad enough that they will be lucky not to lose fifteen to twenty games

 

[jarms24]

actually I just read the entire response from the NCAA to UNC. There isn't one mention of Men's basketball in the 80 page report. Only Women's Basketball :joy:

They cite the percentage of mbb players who took the classes on page 6 in the footnote. Who knows with the corrupt NCAA. It could go either way, but smart money is that they get nothing. Too much $$$

 

[revcort]

It's an argument in semantics at this point. If UNC can figure out some way, ANY way, for the NCAA to call this entire affair by some other name and be able to justify it, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

But if justice is served, the greatest academic/eligibility scandal in NCAA history has taken place. And yes, even hookers for recruits isn't as bad as this, though both UNC and UL should be hammered. But I digress... if the NCAA has even a SHRED of integrity regarding what it SAYS it's all about, which is STUDENT-athletes, they should give UNC the death penalty. That won't happen, but that would be justice for 30 years of academic fraud, conspiracy to commit academic fraud, and also the damage done to the lives of these student athletes. Now, I know Rashad McCants didn't care about education when he was at Chapel Hill, but he managed to get through (made the Dean's list- ha!) without receiving any education, other than being taught how to lie, cheat, and conspire, from the school. Others got the same. As I say, if the NCAA has a shred of integrity, UNC can't just get away with this. It would be a travesty and, in my mind, the NCAA would lose all credibility and cease to hold any authority in my mind and, I would wager, in the minds of ADs and coaches everywhere.

 

[gossie21_rivals69805]

This could be a matter of self preservation for the NCAA. For years they have argued against paying athletes because they receive free education in exchange for athletic participation. If the NCAA doesn't punish this as harshly as possible it undercuts their legal arguments in the class action cases they are fighting.

 

[Xception]

This could be a matter of self preservation for the NCAA. For years they have argued against paying athletes because they receive free education in exchange for athletic participation. If the NCAA doesn't punish this as harshly as possible it undercuts their legal arguments in the class action cases they are fighting.

It doesn't get freer than no classes

 

[MdWIldcat55]

actually I just read the entire response from the NCAA to UNC. There isn't one mention of Men's basketball in the 80 page report. Only Women's Basketball :joy:

The NCAA response was redacted, according to the Dan Kane article. If so, you are reading what UNC's lawyers want you to read.

And this statement seems to indicate that the NCAA is pushing to use all the info in the Wainstein report, which clearly documents that the cheating system was set up specifically to benefit the MEN's basketball program -- as it certainly did: “The new information provided, for the first time, a complete picture of the athletics department’s preferential access to anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses and, in some cases, how it used those courses to retain NCAA academic eligibility for student-athletes,” the NCAA’s enforcement staff said. “This access provided student-athletes with advantages that other students simply did not have.”

The women's basketball program may have ultimately cheated more. But who believes the Af-Am Scam was set up to keep women basketball players eligible? What a joke.

 

[gossie21_rivals69805]

It doesn't get freer than no classes

Sure. But that's like paying with counterfeit money.

 

[Crankdatmustard_rivals66299]

The NCAA response was redacted, according to the Dan Kane article. If so, you are reading what UNC's lawyers want you to read.

And this statement seems to indicate that the NCAA is pushing to use all the info in the Wainstein report, which clearly documents that the cheating system was set up specifically to benefit the MEN's basketball program -- as it certainly did: “The new information provided, for the first time, a complete picture of the athletics department’s preferential access to anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses and, in some cases, how it used those courses to retain NCAA academic eligibility for student-athletes,” the NCAA’s enforcement staff said. “This access provided student-athletes with advantages that other students simply did not have.”

The women's basketball program may have ultimately cheated more. But who believes the Af-Am Scam was set up to keep women basketball players eligible? What a joke.

If you go to the bottom of the article there is a PDF of the NCAA response to UNC. No where in the 80 pages does it mention Men's basketball.

 

[caneintally]

This renews my hope, and to some extent my belief, that the minimum penalty for UNC coming out of this will be a ban from post season play of a year, and possibly two, for ALL programs in which athletes benefited from fake classes.

That, of course, would be a weak tap on the wrist -- not even a slap -- compared to the size of the crime. But at least it'd be a real punishment.

I think that is along the lines what will happen but as you said for the crime that is like a serial killer getting 3 years in jail when he should be getting the chair .

 

[TheDude1]

That is a fairly brutal response; the NCAA basically said that all of UNC's arguments about it being purely an academic issue were baloney, and that they have specific evidence that this is an athletic issue and have jurisdiction over that.

This is not a great outcome for UNC, the way I read it.

 

[JC for 3]

....maybe the NCAA isn't going to look the other way on this after all.

 

[TheDude1]

....maybe the NCAA isn't going to look the other way on this after all.

I refuse to let my hopes get up. Refuse, I tell you!

Meanwhile, all the UNC douches on the national board are all like "People just have to let this go! It's all over!" Uh... not really?

 

[Blueaz]

....maybe the NCAA isn't going to look the other way on this after all.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

actually I just read the entire response from the NCAA to UNC. There isn't one mention of Men's basketball in the 80 page report. Only Women's Basketball :joy:

Now that I've read it, I think it is much more damning for the ENTIRE athletic department than you suggest. Yes, there are many specific references to the women's basketball program. That's because it is a response to UNC's effort to dump the whole thing on the women's program, so the NCAA addresses those points.

But look at pages 30-40. Heavily redacted. But what can be read refers to the entire "athletic support" program that aided football players and men's basketball players. This response specifically addresses the comments by a tutor Amy Kleissler about the efforts to get fake grades for players. Readers of Dan Kane know she was a tutor for men's players.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

If you think Vitale is a source of news or honesty, you will be disappointed. He has never been able to separate himself from friendships and tell the truth.
Dean Smith was dirty and so is his friend saint K.

 

[GLR5555]

That is a fairly brutal response; the NCAA basically said that all of UNC's arguments about it being purely an academic issue were baloney, and that they have specific evidence that this is an athletic issue and have jurisdiction over that.

This is not a great outcome for UNC, the way I read it.

Some UNC honk on the main board is trying to say Kane got all of his information from some message board dude. I believe Kane knows as much of this mess as most UNC administrators.

 

[jarms24]

Some UNC honk on the main board is trying to say Kane got all of his information from some message board dude. I believe Kane knows as much of this mess as most UNC administrators.

He is an idiot. Pay him no mind. Kane didn't get his info from Count. Manalishi got catfished by that dude. Not Kane. Kane tried to vet the information, but couldn't, so he didn't run with it. Kane is a good writer.

 

[Guess Who]

"NCAA contends in its roughly 80-page response that a pattern of “willful violations” and a “blatant disregard” for NCAA regulations allow it to pursue a case beyond a four-year statute of limitations"

This says a lot by NCAA. I'd be concerned if I was them but of course I'm not thank God.

 

[Ghettobird]

actually I just read the entire response from the NCAA to UNC. There isn't one mention of Men's basketball in the 80 page report. Only Women's Basketball :joy:

The most amazing thing about that, it was Rashad MCcants that brought this to everyone's attention. Amazing.

 

[Montana81]

I refuse to let my hopes get up. Refuse, I tell you!

Meanwhile, all the UNC douches on the national board are all like "People just have to let this go! It's all over!" Uh... not really?

I wouldn't call them douches. Cory, numbers and space are the regulars and theyre all good posters. If this was happening at UK I would probably react the same way they have.

 

[mebeblue2]

That is a fairly brutal response; the NCAA basically said that all of UNC's arguments about it being purely an academic issue were baloney, and that they have specific evidence that this is an athletic issue and have jurisdiction over that.

This is not a great outcome for UNC, the way I read it.

no doubt the NCAA was much more harsh in this response
UNC finally pissed the NCAA off, only took them 5 years to do so

 

[akaukswoosh]

I refuse to let my hopes get up. Refuse, I tell you!

Meanwhile, all the UNC douches on the national board are all like "People just have to let this go! It's all over!" Uh... not really?

UNC douches plus some ESPN douches.

 

[akaukswoosh]

I have to admit that the NCAA seem to now have a burr up their butt with the attitude change by unc. If unc would have been smart and stayed humbled and accepted the mild slap on the wrist, they might have gotten out of this free and clear.

Ditto

 

[jarms24]

I wouldn't call them douches. Cory, numbers and space are the regulars and theyre all good posters. If this was happening at UK I would probably react the same way they have.

Numbers and Space are good. Cory and AWillie are dbags. I have screenshots of all the nasty comments they made about me during my hiatus. If this thing blows up on UNC, I am going to dedicate a special thread to those losers. It will be a glorious thing to behold.

@Mark Gastineau @TheDude1

Also, you're a way more objective poster than those clowns. You would not stoop as low as they have. They've all said some pretty vile things about Mary Willingham, Jay Smith, and Rashad McCants.

 

[Jkwo_rivals113955]

It all boils down to whether the NCAA can determine if a class is a class. That is what UNC is arguing.
Someone define is.

I accept the general premise of Bilas's "outside their jurisdiction" argument, but if they don't even have the authority to rule on a bunch of classes that
a. never meet
b. have an advisor "grade" a single assignment due the whole semester
c. adjust the grade at their leisure for eligibility purposes, even if the assignment was plagiarized

...then the NCAA has literally no purpose. That's the basic baseline that should define a "student athlete".. some type of education, even a modest one.

They're sitting there patting themselves on the back that they don't let snacks get too deluxe on a recruiting trip.
Or like the OSU kid who signed a jersey in exchange for a tattoo. He's taking a tiny chunk of the millions of dollars that he's worth to the university... They came down on him for that, but far be it from them to look at the eligibility of kids who aren't learning a damn thing in either English or Swahili.