Covid 6.0

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jlb321_rivals110621

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My mother-in-law has hallmark symptoms of Covid19: high fever, chest pain, difficulty breathing, and extreme fatigue. She lives in an area with many confirmed cases. She can't get tested, though, because they're out of tests. WTF, I thought anyone who wanted a test was supposed to be able to get one.

I do not have time to go into the why or get into a lengthy debate surrounding what is going to sound a bit off (there is a physiologic rationale) - but if you have it or suspect you might, spend some time intermittently during the day on your stomach with intermittent deep breaths and holds. This does not help cure or shorten the course but will/may prevent or lessen any associated hypoxemia.

best
 

jflores

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Quite honestly I don't get the red blue investment inthis thing. The overall argument of the left is that he does not understand and was slow to act.

The overall argument of the right is that this is a politically driven overblown crisis. Trump doesn't seem to think so as he's heard *his people* and is choosing to expend great resources on it. Apparently including another $2 trillion.

On the face of it left and right generally agree. He's either a dumb President or a weak President who let's Jim Acosta run the country from the cheap seats in the briefing room.

Neither is really a good look.
 

planored

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You could be right. It does however fit with the President’s transactional nature and instincts for self-preservation.
That is why they made it up about Fla. More support has been given to NY and Cali, neither states he will win. Why not let those folks fail?
 

jflores

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So that $2 trillion number isn't surprising. Lot of economic gurus were saying $2 trillion bailout wouldn't be enough and the real number was $4-5 trillion. Assuming that number holds combined with the first bailout that's $4.2 trillion.

Plus several trillion in quantitative easing. That number is rapidly going up. We may double the debt as some folks guessed.
 

RaisingArizona

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That is why they made it up about Fla. More support has been given to NY and Cali, neither states he will win. Why not let those folks fail?

relative to the case load i don’t think that’s true but I’m not well informed enough to say for sure
 

planored

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Quite honestly I don't get the red blue investment inthis thing. The overall argument of the left is that he does not understand and was slow to act.

The overall argument of the right is that this is a politically driven overblown crisis. Trump doesn't seem to think so as he's heard *his people* and is choosing to expend great resources on it. Apparently including another $2 trillion.

On the face of it left and right generally agree. He's either a dumb President or a weak President who let's Jim Acosta run the country from the cheap seats in the briefing room.

Neither is really a good look.
I think it has been handled pretty damn well. Bringing the private sector in to assist. Cutting off China, which the left called him Xenophobic. Is the ventilator crisis on him or Gov who bypassed purchasing these in state govt budgets. On and on, the whole why not sooner, where is the ripping of NYC Health stating in early to mid Feb, live your life go to parades. Pelosi saying the same in SF while telling people to go to Chinatown.
 

planored

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relative to the case load i don’t think that’s true but I’m not well informed enough to say for sure
Case loads are completely different, Cali is different than NYC at this point in terms of numbers. Both have been built new hospitals, provided naval hospitals. There are only so many ventilators in the country. NYC should not get them all.
 

Solana Beach Husker

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That is why they made it up about Fla. More support has been given to NY and Cali, neither states he will win. Why not let those folks fail?

President is a fairly insulated position. The decisions you generally make have no consequences for years to come. You are generally credited with the previous administrations successes and failures. Trump has done a good job of limiting foreign interactions which is one of the few areas a president can truly be judged during their tenure. The big exception would be a pandemic, which is effectively a foreign invader. Trump realized early on that he could use smoke and mirrors to give impressions of change but not actually instill change...ie... wall, trade deals with china, NAFTA, American Coal and Oil...the problem with a pandemic is his decisions really matter...his transactional nature could create real deaths and really expose his lack of knowledge. So he has listened to experts while still wanting his accustomed center stage...he wants to punish those critical but can't risk it leading to obvious calamity. This would be an impossible situation for any president...but Trump is stuck because he hasn't had to think about the consequences of most of his decisions until now. He is extremely fortunate because 2020 suddenly became a war year, and we have a war time president and presidents are never removed during war time.
 

RaisingArizona

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Case loads are completely different, Cali is different than NYC at this point in terms of numbers. Both have been built new hospitals, provided naval hospitals. There are only so many ventilators in the country. NYC should not get them all.

I agree with that.
 
May 2, 2005
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I think it has been handled pretty damn well. Bringing the private sector in to assist. Cutting off China, which the left called him Xenophobic. Is the ventilator crisis on him or Gov who bypassed purchasing these in state govt budgets. On and on, the whole why not sooner, where is the ripping of NYC Health stating in early to mid Feb, live your life go to parades. Pelosi saying the same in SF while telling people to go to Chinatown.
There are actually some people who believe that this guy could handle this crisis better.
 

jlb321_rivals110621

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Case loads are completely different, Cali is different than NYC at this point in terms of numbers. Both have been built new hospitals, provided naval hospitals. There are only so many ventilators in the country. NYC should not get them all.

number of ventilators isn’t the problem - the number of ventilators that currently exist far exceeds the number of people that can competently manage a complex respiratory disease such that those that get placed on a them have some chance of liberating from the ventilator. It is really easy to put someone on a ventilator - not having enough people to manage them only ensures a slow, uncomfortable death while on said ventilator.

I make the analogy to juggling. Say someone can juggle 5 balls really well. What is going to happen if all of a sudden they try to juggle 10 or 15. All the balls are going to get dropped.
 
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NorthwoodHusker

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Jun 20, 2019
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Did you read his Twitter thread? He’s accusing the NYT of spending more time covering the gossip part of state vs. Federal government as opposed to asking the real tough questions like “what is the hang up with testing capacity? How do we get it fixed ASAP?”

and he’s right
He is saying theres names and others responsible.
Has he ever built anything? Why isnt he after the fda? Seems a vaccine would make more sense,right?
I'm sure he's much more informed about who's who at the fda.

Testing wouldn't mean squat if we had a vaccine. But, you see, he knows about that, knows nothing about creating and making test kits.
Yet, he goes on about something he doesn't know about, and ignores the better solution, but, he's attacking his infrastructure, much like aoc did with cuomo.

The center is lost.
 

NorthwoodHusker

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Jun 20, 2019
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I do not have time to go into the why or get into a lengthy debate surrounding what is going to sound a bit off (there is a physiologic rationale) - but if you have it or suspect you might, spend some time intermittently during the day on your stomach with intermittent deep breaths and holds. This does not help cure or shorten the course but will/may prevent or lessen any associated hypoxemia.

best
Great advice.
 

jlb321_rivals110621

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Aug 8, 2014
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number of ventilators isn’t the problem - the number of ventilators that currently exist far exceeds the number of people that can competently manage a complex respiratory disease such that those that get placed on a them have some chance of liberating from the ventilator. It is really easy to put someone on a ventilator - not having enough people to manage them only ensures a slow, uncomfortable death while on said ventilator.

I make the analogy to juggling. Say someone can juggle 5 balls really well. What is going to happen if they all of a sudden try to juggle 10 or 15. All the balls are going to get dropped.

it sucks .. and maybe the alternative is just too terrible, but A LOT more people are going to die because we are going to try to indiscriminately save everyone.
 

MOHUSKER

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He is saying theres names and others responsible.
Has he ever built anything? Why isnt he after the fda? Seems a vaccine would make more sense,right?
I'm sure he's much more informed about who's who at the fda.

Testing wouldn't mean squat if we had a vaccine. But, you see, he knows about that, knows nothing about creating and making test kits.
Yet, he goes on about something he doesn't know about, and ignores the better solution, but, he's attacking his infrastructure, much like aoc did with cuomo.

The center is lost.

I hope we do get a vaccine, there wasn't one for SARS or MERS. This is new territory, we don't know how long immunity will last when the vaccine arrives, we don't know if it will slow down mutations. For all of our sake I hope we do find one that lasts and people actually get it.
 

Solana Beach Husker

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I think it has been handled pretty damn well. Bringing the private sector in to assist. Cutting off China, which the left called him Xenophobic. Is the ventilator crisis on him or Gov who bypassed purchasing these in state govt budgets. On and on, the whole why not sooner, where is the ripping of NYC Health stating in early to mid Feb, live your life go to parades. Pelosi saying the same in SF while telling people to go to Chinatown.
Some were critical for the wrong reasons but the CDC itself immediately said they do not agree with closing borders as it limits contact tracing. If a waver was applied to any of the 50000 chinese workers then they wouldn't be traced. It would have been much smarter to instill 14 day quarantine, testing, and contact tracing. Most of the current outbreak came from Iran and Italy, although the west coast stuff is certainly from China. The main issue with Trump was his pandering to his base...a large percentage who have comorbidities and are at risk from this virus. Calling it a hoax, calling it overblown, calling for us to go back to work has had an effect that will be felt. What are people going to do when Cali and New York are going back to work but it hasn't burnt through Missouri, Kentucky, Georgia, Florida, or Texas yet. Are they really going to shelter in place while some states are back to work?
 
May 2, 2005
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Ok. Anything that starts out with "someone in the white house" or "sources say" has little or no stock with me. That's not good journalism. Journalism died years ago
Just like the reporter that tried to accuse someone in the WH of calling the CV the Kung Flu and wouldn’t name names when called on it. I believe it ended up being debunked.
 

NorthwoodHusker

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Jun 20, 2019
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Look, as more manufacturing went to china, we had a president say, whats he going to do, wave a magic wand?
The eighties called, they want their cold war back, laughing that russia is a great enemy etc.
Used up our stocks on PPEs.
Who cares
This is what we have now, and every day going forwards. We can worry another president has shut down our heavy metals leaving china without a competitor, or that weve sold our uranium rights etc, but who cares.

We have this to deal with, no matter how much monies were invested in solar panels vs ventilators, it doesnt matter.

I can point fingers, just did, but it doesn't matter.
 

NorthwoodHusker

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Jun 20, 2019
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Some were critical for the wrong reasons but the CDC itself immediately said they do not agree with closing borders as it limits contact tracing. If a waver was applied to any of the 50000 chinese workers then they wouldn't be traced. It would have been much smarter to instill 14 day quarantine, testing, and contact tracing. Most of the current outbreak came from Iran and Italy, although the west coast stuff is certainly from China. The main issue with Trump was his pandering to his base...a large percentage who have comorbidities and are at risk from this virus. Calling it a hoax, calling it overblown, calling for us to go back to work has had an effect that will be felt. What are people going to do when Cali and New York are going back to work but it hasn't burnt through Missouri, Kentucky, Georgia, Florida, or Texas yet. Are they really going to shelter in place while some states are back to work?
And the cdc wasn't allowed in china, and wasn't around the last pandemic. It's not all about them.
 

SoFL Husker

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There are actually some people who believe that this guy could handle this crisis better.

Biden should hire Boyd Epley and get some serious mid-80s training going on right now, in order to survive the election, let alone win it.
 

RedMyMind

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Aug 22, 2017
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Some were critical for the wrong reasons but the CDC itself immediately said they do not agree with closing borders as it limits contact tracing. If a waver was applied to any of the 50000 chinese workers then they wouldn't be traced. It would have been much smarter to instill 14 day quarantine, testing, and contact tracing. Most of the current outbreak came from Iran and Italy, although the west coast stuff is certainly from China. The main issue with Trump was his pandering to his base...a large percentage who have comorbidities and are at risk from this virus. Calling it a hoax, calling it overblown, calling for us to go back to work has had an effect that will be felt. What are people going to do when Cali and New York are going back to work but it hasn't burnt through Missouri, Kentucky, Georgia, Florida, or Texas yet. Are they really going to shelter in place while some states are back to work?
seems it needs to be a state by state, region by region approach. Why stop certain areas from starting work until everyone is well? It may take many months for the whole country to calm down, all while people aren't making money or providing for their families.
I would say 85-95% of Americans have co-mobidities. Military isn't absolved. They fat too.
 

NorthwoodHusker

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Jun 20, 2019
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seems it needs to be a state by state, region by region approach. Why stop certain areas from starting work until everyone is well? It may take many months for the whole country to calm down, all while people aren't making money or providing for their families.
I would say 85-95% of Americans have co-mobidities.
Thats why we need therapeutic and prophylactic drugs, it would allow best of both worlds, some herd effect, and those getting infected likely no getting intubated.
 

RedMyMind

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Thats why we need therapeutic and prophylactic drugs, it would allow best of both worlds, some herd effect, and those getting infected likely no getting intubated.
need those serology treatments with antibodies from recovered people. Save that blood for extreme cases or at risk persons.
 

oldjar07

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Look, as more manufacturing went to china, we had a president say, whats he going to do, wave a magic wand?
The eighties called, they want their cold war back, laughing that russia is a great enemy etc.
Used up our stocks on PPEs.
Who cares
This is what we have now, and every day going forwards. We can worry another president has shut down our heavy metals leaving china without a competitor, or that weve sold our uranium rights etc, but who cares.

We have this to deal with, no matter how much monies were invested in solar panels vs ventilators, it doesnt matter.

I can point fingers, just did, but it doesn't matter.
Except it does matter. And maybe this event will make the U.S. rethink its policy of shipping off manufacturing to China. And we're learning that not just war related heavy industries are vital for national security, but medical supplies is another area where we are way too reliant on another country. You're right solar panels vs. ventilators doesn't make a difference because they should both be produced in the U.S.
 
Oct 13, 2001
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Yeah, it was south of us but very weird to experience. I'm used to tornadoes and blizzards, but not earthquakes!
UPDATE: The U.S. Geological Survey reporting a 6.5 magnitude earthquake 45 miles west of Challis, Idaho.

Citizens reporting effects felt as far out as Missoula, Spokane, and Salt Lake City.

***Original Copy***

BREAKING: An earthquake with a reported preliminary estimated magnitude of 6.4 felt on the Idaho Palouse moments ago.

We will update this story as more information becomes available.
 

NorthwoodHusker

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Jun 20, 2019
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Except it does matter. And maybe this event will make the U.S. rethink its policy of shipping off manufacturing to China. And we're learning that not just war related heavy industries are vital for national security, but medical supplies is another area where we are way too reliant on another country. You're right solar panels vs. ventilators doesn't make a difference because they should both be produced in the U.S.
And one is for our safety,a major government thing, the other, possibly both market and future health for all.
But the market doesn't support them, and ratcheting up costs by eliminating cheap energy isn't resposible to the poor.
But, this is a pandemic, not a theory, if only it was, just a theory
 
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