Cliff

[zappaa]

Based on what you’ve seen from him with your eyes, not his stat line against the three opponents we’ve played.
Do you think he can spell Myles against Kofi and Garza and give us quality defensive minutes?
I don’t see any offensive contribution from him this year in the B1G.

 

[ouchmyknee]

He’s actually already a decent defender who doesn’t foul all the time. I think he’ll be fine.

 

[RUHouston]

Agreed. He will earn his minutes against Kofi and Garza but he’s shown excellent potential so far.

 

[BillyC80]

Based on what you’ve seen from him with your eyes, not his stat line against the three opponents we’ve played.
Do you think he can spell Myles against Kofi and Garza and give us quality defensive minutes?
I don’t see any offensive contribution from him this year in the B1G.

He’ll give us a solid defensive presence in the B1G and much needed strength against those guys you mentioned. He’ll score on put-backs and alley-oops and at the foul line. In these first three games I’ve also noticed he’s a pretty good passer out of the low post. And of course he can be a dominant rebounder, especially on the defensive glass.

 

[ScarletDog]

I think he’s going to struggle big time once we get into conference play. The pick and roll will expose him in the defensive end. And we saw him struggle to dunk against Hofstra tonight. I love the kid but don’t think he’s ready just yet.

 

[ouchmyknee]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s ready to compete against the best bigs. But if you think about him as a #2 big, he’s pretty good for what teams typically trot out there.

 

[Arizona Knight]

Kofi and Garza are a tough benchmark. There are not many centers in the country, if any, that can hold Garza under 20. Cliff will rebound like a mofo and gets lobs and put backs this year. I don’t thing anyone expected much more.

 

[BigEastPhil]

He’s a terrific defender. Knows how to rebound with his arms in the air to get the ball; doesn’t foul; etc

He’s a work in process. I’d like to see him offensively show some moves within several feet of the basket

 

[RU82]

Cliff is a freshman just three games into his college career. He has a lot to learn. But also has tons of natural ability. He’ll be better after 15 games than he is now.

 

[SirScarlet]

Based on what you’ve seen from him with your eyes, not his stat line against the three opponents we’ve played.
Do you think he can spell Myles against Kofi and Garza and give us quality defensive minutes?
I don’t see any offensive contribution from him this year in the B1G.

Totally fair to raise this point, BUT you need to factor in Pike and his staff's ability to development talent.

Go back to year 1, and every player improves materially over the course of a year.

So, that's a long way of saying that I think you will see the evolution of Cliff's offensive game happen while watching. It's happened with essentially all of his players (a couple of outliers but Cliff exhibits all the right signs of being coachable)

my $.015...

 

[zappaa]

Kofi and Garza are a tough benchmark. There are not many centers in the country, if any, that can hold Garza under 20. Cliff will rebound like a mofo and gets lobs and put backs this year. I don’t thing anyone expected much more.

I’m concerned about his defense and rebounding against all B1G competition.
Not just those two stars.

 

[Arizona Knight]

I’m concerned about his defense against all B1G competition.
Not just those two stars.

Thankfully we have Miles to show him what a legit B1G center looks like. Fair to be concerned until we see him play but I’m confident he will hold his own.

 

[goru7]

I think he’s going to struggle big time once we get into conference play. The pick and roll will expose him in the defensive end. And we saw him struggle to dunk against Hofstra tonight. I love the kid but don’t think he’s ready just yet.

Are you kidding with that struggle to dunk. ? You point to one time where he was too far underneath and the rim got him but he didn’t sulk, he chased the ball , caused a scrum and Jacob came out with the ball and guess what Cliff flushed it. How many other dunks did he have this weekend 10-15 , and you choose to focus on that one. LOL

 

[zappaa]

Thankfully we have Miles to show him what a legit B1G center looks like. Fair to be concerned until we see him play but I’m confident he will hold his own.

I was thinking he’d be close to the second level centers in the league last year, Watkins, Myles, Oturu....I don’t see it.
We shall see, rooting hard for him

 

[goru7]

I’m concerned about his defense and rebounding against all B1G competition.
Not just those two stars.

From the few games so far, rebounding in the conference will not be an issue. Defense or at least lack of shot blocking so far, must be improved. I expected more around the rim defensively kinda like what Myles did tonight

 

[bac2therac]

unfortunately this year, Pike will not have the luxury of 10-11 non conference games to work on everyones game before conference play. Cliff is going to be thrown into the fire real quick. I like what I see from him so far. Its Palmquist and Reiber that may be far behind

 

[RU848789]

I was thinking he’d be close to the second level centers in the league last year, Watkins, Myles, Oturu....I don’t see it.
We shall see, rooting hard for him

He'll absolutely give us good minutes much of the time, although he'll also likely struggle at times, also, which is not unexpected for a freshman. I see him playing pretty good defense and rebounding reasonably well, with a few shot blocks and some baskets around the rim, along with some fast break dunks, as he runs the floor better than most big men and our defense creates fast break opportunities. He's also a better FT shooter than Myles (even though they're both 50% right now), so we might see him on the floor at the end of close games more than you might expect.

 

[Arizona Knight]

I was thinking he’d be close to the second level centers in the league last year, Watkins, Myles, Oturu....I don’t see it.
We shall see, rooting hard for him

A freshman coming in at an Oturo or Watkins level is probably a Top 15 player in HS. Cliff is going to be really good, might just take a year to get to Otoro level.

 

[zappaa]

A freshman coming in at an Oturo or Watkins level is probably a Top 15 player in HS. Cliff is going to be really good, might just take a year to get to Otoro level.

Myles hangs right with those guys

 

[Arizona Knight]

Myles hangs right with those guys

I agree. Miles is a stud. But Miles Improved a great deal from his freshman to
Sophomore year and hopefully from
Sophmore to Jr year. Cliff is a pup.

 

[80RU]

Based on what I read, I did expect him to be a little more of a rim protector. (Only one blocked shot through three games – – Myles has 10 – – and not as many altered shots as I thought I would see against this competition). However, overall I am quite happy; he gets to the rim on offense and is quick on defense, especially on getting back to the post after he has hedged out.

 

[RU05]

He’ll give us a solid defensive presence in the B1G and much needed strength against those guys you mentioned. He’ll score on put-backs and alley-oops and at the foul line. In these first three games I’ve also noticed he’s a pretty good passer out of the low post. And of course he can be a dominant rebounder, especially on the defensive glass.

Ya, and that to me is an indication that he is a basketball player and not just an amazing athlete.

He's 3 games into his college career, I imagine we will see him show a lot of growth this season.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Agreed. He will earn his minutes against Kofi and Garza but he’s shown excellent potential so far.

Myles get more blocks.. but he also leaves his man to do so.. and when he doesn't get the block you often see easy putbacks.. possibly combined with a foul by him trying to get back.

I think Cliff might stick with his duty on D and the boards a bit more. And he seems to be more cautious of staying vertical..

So.. yeah.. I think he will contribute in stopping Big Ten Bigs.

 

[RUDead]

Everyone will struggle against Garza, that's a high bar. Kofi is tough too, but likes to stay home so if he can be physical enough he will do OK.

Big drop off after those two. His physical gifts will help him against most of the rest of the league but will have a few nights where he looks like a freshman. I don't expect him to score a ton of points but his rebounding alone will keep him on the floor. Myles is obviously the better offensive player right now so Pike will do what he always does, use them as he needs them.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

we should have a whole thread on what we might be able to do with Garza... I think maybe turn Mag into a charge-collecting machine.. because Garza likes his offensive fouls.. if they are called.. but Illinois looks very talented too...

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

Based on what you’ve seen from him with your eyes, not his stat line against the three opponents we’ve played.
Do you think he can spell Myles against Kofi and Garza and give us quality defensive minutes?
I don’t see any offensive contribution from him this year in the B1G.

I’ve seen him play several times in HS and he’s exceeded my expectations so far. Everyone should have know his offensive limitations right now and he still has a lot to learn on D, but he’s already an upgrade over Shaq Carter.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think he will hold his own. A few more games will help me better assess.

 

[Scangg]

Not concerned with Cliff holding his own defensively and rebounding. He's clearly an upgrade over Carter when Myles isn't in the game

 

[zappaa]

Not concerned with Cliff holding his own defensively and rebounding. He's clearly an upgrade over Carter when Myles isn't in the game

I disagree

 

[RUBOB72]

i think we are expecting him to be this double / double guy in the first half of his frosh year. I have said let him get 11-12 games in before we say well , ” he’s now not that good”. Really people? Cliff will be fine . We need him to defend the rim , help in the passing lanes, rebound and alter some shots . I ‘ll take his garbage points on put backs and dunks. I don’t think Pike thinks otherwise that he expected more. Without Geo and Caleb is hurting us. And certainly Yeboah was a. steady guy but make no mistake Cliff is too athletically gifted not to improve before we reach February.

 

[satnom]

I think Cliff is just starting to tap into his potential and will be swatting, rebounding, out jumping and dunking on plenty of BIG bigs this season. You can see it even against lower level teams. With his length, athleticism and leaping ability he is going to give players like Garza and Kofi fits. Not saying he’s going to completely stop them as a true freshmen but he’s going to announce himself to the BIG world that he is the real deal. His development over the season will be key on how far RU goes in the post season.

Will be fun to watch.

GO RU

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

The things I like:
He doesn't try to do too much. He knows his roll. He understands the game. Love how he moves and reads the game. Obvious athleticism.
My concerns:
Little slow to react under the boards and in traffic. The game is moving a bit fast for him in those spots. Overly concerned about fouling. Needs to be more aggressive defensively. Needs to get stronger.
He's going to have his ups and downs in conference play this year, but long term, we have an absolute stud.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Not concerned with Cliff holding his own defensively and rebounding. He's clearly an upgrade over Carter when Myles isn't in the game

Disagree. Carter had a more polished offensive game and was much stronger.

 

[RUBOB72]

Disagree. Carter had a more polished offensive game and was much stronger.

Carter was a very strong guy.... but totally different potential in young

 

[connor]

There is very few , if any bigs in the country that can guard those guys , if cliff gives 10 -15 good minutes against them thats great. Going to have to beat those teams by shutting down other guys , especially Iowa. Like others have said, he will be much better by the time those games come around too

 

[Scangg]

Disagree. Carter had a more polished offensive game and was much stronger.

OP is talking about defense. Cliff is a much better defender, shot blocker, and rebounder than Carter. Carter was not a strong defender, didn't block shots, and is a worse rebounder.

Yes, Carter had a more polished offensive game around the rim... which was rarely if ever used. Cliff's strong finishing around the rim on lobs and put backs will bring more offensively than Carter's never used decent offensive post game

You really think the team would be better if Carter replaced Cliff? That's a wild take

 

[Westcoast]

He’s a terrific defender. Knows how to rebound with his arms in the air to get the ball; doesn’t foul; etc

He’s a work in process. I’d like to see him offensively show some moves within several feet of the basket

Its hard in a packed in zone to get much back-to-the-basket work. We may go to some clear outs in man-to-man to see if he can back his man down.

 

[MadRU]

Garza and Cockburn are different levels, especially Garza. An interesting test for Cliff will be the Michigan freshman big. Kid has size and some skills inside.

 

[RUtrumpet92_rivals498139]

That's a tall order to ask a freshman to guard Garza, who right now is projected as either the #1 or #2 player on the conference depending on how you feel about Ayo. Let's see how Cliff looks after January. I think we will all be thrilled.

 

[zappaa]

That's a tall order to ask a freshman to guard Garza, who right now is projected as either the #1 or #2 player on the conference depending on how you feel about Ayo. Let's see how Cliff looks after January. I think we will all be thrilled.

He’s got to do it for a minimum of 15 minutes, tall order of not.