Breonna Taylor settlement - $12m
- Thread starter Irondawg
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make it go away settlement - at least the money can be used for the kid's college and a very productive life
I’ve read quite a bit on it.
I don’t think the police were being sinister in the case. I don’t think they were even being neglectful. I think it was a crazy instance and a very tragic accident.
They had reason to believe she was involved with a drug dealer. She was in that it was her ex but didn’t seem to have any involvement in the drugs.
The cops got a legal warrant and exercised it. The boyfriend had a legal gun and fired Bc he didn’t know it was the cops.
She was killed.
Terrible tragic accident and they do happen. $12 million won’t bring her back to life, but it is something.
I’m not sure what I think should happen to the cops. Accidents do happen.
I don’t think the police were being sinister in the case. I don’t think they were even being neglectful. I think it was a crazy instance and a very tragic accident.
They had reason to believe she was involved with a drug dealer. She was in that it was her ex but didn’t seem to have any involvement in the drugs.
The cops got a legal warrant and exercised it. The boyfriend had a legal gun and fired Bc he didn’t know it was the cops.
She was killed.
Terrible tragic accident and they do happen. $12 million won’t bring her back to life, but it is something.
I’m not sure what I think should happen to the cops. Accidents do happen.
And the only punishment appears to be to the tax payer.
I can't help but wonder if the rumors that the shot officer was actually hit by friendly fire were true, and is the reason the city decided to go with the settlement.
I can't help but wonder if the rumors that the shot officer was actually hit by friendly fire were true, and is the reason the city decided to go with the settlement.
Here’s a pretty good article on rumors and fact checks regarding them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/5326938002
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/5326938002
Accidents do happen. But thats a hell of an accident. Now imagine its your wife, your mom, your daughter and it happens in what you think is the safety and comfort of your house. Shot and killed while in the bed. I dont have any good answers as to what should happen to the cops. I respect LEOs and realize thats an incredibly difficult job, but there are some jobs and situations that occur on jobs that you dont just get an "oops, I'll do better next time"... and this is one of them. Im not an expert on law but I think this would be manslaughter or something like that.
End Qualified Immunity. End Civil Asset Forfeiture. End the War on Drugs.
Too many lives have been ruined and unnecessary blood shed (not even going to mention South of the border).
If prohibition worked, alcohol would still be illegal. It creates a black market, ripe for illegal enterprise which leads the escalating violence to control the market share.
Too many lives have been ruined and unnecessary blood shed (not even going to mention South of the border).
If prohibition worked, alcohol would still be illegal. It creates a black market, ripe for illegal enterprise which leads the escalating violence to control the market share.
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I have imagined that. As stated very clearly, it sucks. If that wasn’t clear.....IT SUCKS.
But this is being portrayed as the police being racist and targeting black people on purpose. That’s not the case.
But this is being portrayed as the police being racist and targeting black people on purpose. That’s not the case.
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Not saying the cops were racist or being sinister, but I’m not sure how they were not neglectful.
I believe one of the cops was fired because he blindly fired 10 shots in the apartment. There were bullet holes in the units above and beside her apartment. The cops certainly weren’t aiming at a target. To me, just blindly firing and not having a target in sight fits the bill of negligent.
I stated in another thread that I thought the cops just lost control of the situation because bullets started flying at them as soon as they kicked the door in. I don’t believe it’s racist by any stretch of the imagination but it is an example of cops not trained to handle the situation.
In my opinion they were simply doing their job. Its a no knock warrant. If it was my house I probly would have fired at anyone busting my door down and I would expect return fire. Its a tragic outcome. No knock warrants should be done away with in my opinion. It the past they have gone to the totally wrong address and shot people. Its too risky. Ban no knock warrants
For those of you who say that it was a tragic mistake and they were just doing their job, answer this:
Why did they lie on the paperwork after the fact? Why did they not have their body cameras on?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/louisville-police-breonna-taylor-death-incident-report/
Why did the cops try to get her ex boyfriend to agree to a plea deal that required him to name her as a member of a criminal syndicate?
https://www.fox23.com/news/trending...xt=LOUISVILLE, Ky.,for the Taylor family said.
Could it have been a mistake? Sure. No knock raids should be illegal and this is a great example as to why. Regardless of the outcome, the moment they started the cover up they might as well have admitted to a level of guilt and should all be tossed in prison.
Why did they lie on the paperwork after the fact? Why did they not have their body cameras on?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/louisville-police-breonna-taylor-death-incident-report/
Why did the cops try to get her ex boyfriend to agree to a plea deal that required him to name her as a member of a criminal syndicate?
https://www.fox23.com/news/trending...xt=LOUISVILLE, Ky.,for the Taylor family said.
Could it have been a mistake? Sure. No knock raids should be illegal and this is a great example as to why. Regardless of the outcome, the moment they started the cover up they might as well have admitted to a level of guilt and should all be tossed in prison.
Let me rephrase that.
The guy who blindly shot 10 times into apartment was negligent. He deserves to not be a police officer again probably ever.
Now I’m basing that on the fact that I’m envisioning he was outside firing inside without a target and while officers were inside. I could be wrong.
I’ve seen a video of 2 state troopers firing “blindly” toward a car while the suspect was firing at them. They were firing to kill him and protect themselves and innocent people.
Based on limited info, I think the 1 officer was acting differently than those 2 troopers.
The guy who blindly shot 10 times into apartment was negligent. He deserves to not be a police officer again probably ever.
Now I’m basing that on the fact that I’m envisioning he was outside firing inside without a target and while officers were inside. I could be wrong.
I’ve seen a video of 2 state troopers firing “blindly” toward a car while the suspect was firing at them. They were firing to kill him and protect themselves and innocent people.
Based on limited info, I think the 1 officer was acting differently than those 2 troopers.
I’m pretty sure I agree with the first two.
I can’t see where legalizing meth, cocaine, crack, etc is beneficial to anyone in society.
I can’t see where legalizing meth, cocaine, crack, etc is beneficial to anyone in society.
I’m not disagreeing with you on no knock.
At a minimum, a no knock should be way harder to get. Multiple judges must sign or something along those lines.
At a minimum, a no knock should be way harder to get. Multiple judges must sign or something along those lines.
The ones shooting outside blindly was the negligence. He was just as likely at the point to hit his fellow officers.
The shots inside were clearly thought to be in self defense as the boyfriend shot first.
Granted his account says he didn’t realize it was the police and thought it was a break in. If true it’s hard to blame him for firing either which is what makes it just a sad situation.
Plus there is dispute on how the police announced themselves and that footage will probably never see the light of day.
The warrant had to be based on some pretty good evidence that she was somehow involved in the drug issue so I do wonder if that was legit or if they had it wrong.
Tons of bad outcomes in the case and a lot departments can learn from it. The knee jerk reaction is to eliminate no knock warrants but I assume they exist for some reason so I’d have to learn more about the pros and cons of doing away with them before I form an opinion.
The shots inside were clearly thought to be in self defense as the boyfriend shot first.
Granted his account says he didn’t realize it was the police and thought it was a break in. If true it’s hard to blame him for firing either which is what makes it just a sad situation.
Plus there is dispute on how the police announced themselves and that footage will probably never see the light of day.
The warrant had to be based on some pretty good evidence that she was somehow involved in the drug issue so I do wonder if that was legit or if they had it wrong.
Tons of bad outcomes in the case and a lot departments can learn from it. The knee jerk reaction is to eliminate no knock warrants but I assume they exist for some reason so I’d have to learn more about the pros and cons of doing away with them before I form an opinion.
you end qualified immunity and law enforcement will be the least of your worries.
Let’s see, an average of 50 Police are killed by criminals in the line of duty every year... an average of 10-15 unarmed black people are killed by Police every year(the average number of unarmed white people killed by Police is 25)The odds of an unarmed black person being killed by Police is roughly the same as being struck by lightning and 10 times less than drowning.
The answer to plea deal is an easy one - if he implicates her they don’t pay a huge civil settlement.
Maybe that’s a cover up and maybe it’s not but if I’m part of the city govt I’d take a bit of time off his sentence to save a ton of money and get a PR win too.
Later in the article is also makes mention of times he seemed to implicate her on phone calls but the next few sentences will make it unsubstantiated.
Seems difficult to connect all the dots on this easily which usually means there are a lot of screw ups everywhere and all parties are partially guilty.
Maybe that’s a cover up and maybe it’s not but if I’m part of the city govt I’d take a bit of time off his sentence to save a ton of money and get a PR win too.
Later in the article is also makes mention of times he seemed to implicate her on phone calls but the next few sentences will make it unsubstantiated.
Seems difficult to connect all the dots on this easily which usually means there are a lot of screw ups everywhere and all parties are partially guilty.
Doing away with qualified immunity and no knock warrants is a terrible idea. Defund the police...because that would help with training...yeah right.
Most of what everyone is complaining about could be very easily corrected but no one wants to offer ACTUAL solutions...they want to ***** and put a band-aid on it.
The solution is this: MANDATORY standardization and accreditation of ALL law enforcement agencies. Direct federal oversight of all law enforcement agencies with a more aggressive influence from the FBI and US-AG's office.
This includes mandatory standards in training, fitness, mental health, certifications, etc. Without meeting those standards THEN your agency loses qualified immunity.
You want to see funding get directed to the right place and things change? Do that.
I've got almost 20 years experience in law enforcement and I've been arguing for this for years. The problem is that law enforcement unions actively lobby against this because it would impact their influence and money. But you can't bar law enforcement from unionizing so....
I was hoping there would be someone to explain the downside (hopefully without using an hyperbole or extreme examples).
Please advise
Please advise
The defund the police thing is mind boggling. When a school district is failing, the dems answer is to always throw more funding at it. So, the thought process that things will improve with less money is odd. And the liberal mayors going along with this are digging their own political grave.
I'm definitely on board with extra standardized training. Going through such a certification process would command higher salaries, and in the process create competition for those positions. No more hiring GEDs, dishonorable discharges, sociopathic bullys, or guys who were bullied and need a badge to get back at everyone. How this already isn't the way its done is ******* baffling.
Thr boyfriend is still locked up and they offered him a plea deal to implicate her in a drug operation. 17 that. No knock warrants are incredibly dangerous for for exactly what happened in this case. If he such a dangerous sob you have to surprise him to bring him in, surveillance and do it in broad day light. At absolute best these cops are criminally negligent.
if i'm a career criminal dealing drugs then it's my damn fault that the women i'm banging tonight might get shot
The real negligence in this case occurred before the warrant was granted. The police did not know enough about the apartment, the people who lived there, or the chances of finding useful evidence.
The warrant probably should not have been requested or granted. After that, mistakes were made but the major negligence had already occurred.
As I posted in another thread, Im not sure if the no-knock nature of the warrant is really the issue here because the police elected to knock and announce. Maybe if they did a poor job of announcing, then their defense is that it was a no-knock warrant, anyway? I dont know very much about criminal procedure; is the no knock warrant the reason they could break down the door?
The warrant probably should not have been requested or granted. After that, mistakes were made but the major negligence had already occurred.
As I posted in another thread, Im not sure if the no-knock nature of the warrant is really the issue here because the police elected to knock and announce. Maybe if they did a poor job of announcing, then their defense is that it was a no-knock warrant, anyway? I dont know very much about criminal procedure; is the no knock warrant the reason they could break down the door?
When you take away the good faith doctrine in law enforcement, then you take away any enforcement. How many people try to get something for free? Well that's all you are doing if you get rid of qualified immunity. And what's the point of getting rid of qualified immunity when a police officer can be sued individually if they act outside of policy and procedure? And if they acted within policy and procedure, then you can sue the police department for making the policy and procedure, if you feel as though your rights were violated. You take away qualified immunity to police officers and that's like charging Doctors with criminal charges if someone dies while having surgery. How many doctors are going to take that risk? Same with law enforcement officers. Not many if any. And you think the quality of law enforcement officers is low now. Take away qualified immunity and it will be non existent. You will have a bunch of glorified security guards which criminals will feast on. It will be every man for himself. That's the short and sweet version.
they had boat loads of good intel indicating that drugs were being moved through that apartment and several others were connected by the vehicle Taylor was driving. The entire underlying facts and circumstances were released a few weeks back. It’s one of the most thorough and in-depth facts and circumstances that I’ve ever seen in a search warrant request. Very detailed. The apartment had been under surveillance for a long time with tons of documentation, photographs, etc. It was a mountain of evidence.
And yet, they didnt know how many people lived there, or that Breanna had a new boyfriend and often slept at his house. If the sister had bern home that night with her daughter, Breanna wouldnt even have been there.
The detailed portions of the warrant request related to Glover's residence, not Breonna's. They had little evidence on Taylor's apartment, and the info they had was mostly wrong.
https://reason.com/2020/06/21/was-the-search-warrant-for-the-drug-raid-that-killed-breonna-taylor-illegal/
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I was always told if they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't have anything to worry about. It would all come out in court, but it doesn't happen like that.
Qualified Immunity if the very thing that dissolves the potential for a civil suit though. Are you sure you know what you're defending entails?
Also, you cannot seriously be comparing law enforcement to doctors. Doctors are charged and convicted criminally all the time. https://apps2.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/CasesAgainstDoctors/spring/main?execution=e2s1
Prospective Doctors haven't been deterred.
Doctors, that go to school for 10+yrs to learn their practice and are required 3+yrs of residency; who will be fired and lose their practicing license if they violate their oath.
Please don't make that comparison.
You're whole side-note conjecture regarding Good Faith is a separate conversation. Just because the water services maintain clarity, pressure and infrastructure doesn't mean you can lump all issues therein to one paragraph. But...
Most everyone has good intentions. Hell, Hitler thought he was bringing Germany back to prominence. It's easy to look back now, but back then he had the support to make it happen. And he did. He just started taking too many "vitamins" everyday and went mad and tried to take too much.
ETA: Don't mince it up. I'm not suggesting police=hitler Germany. It was an example on the assumed Good Faith mentioned and the fallacy therein. Altruism is rare, especially for those holding the power. Please see below
Law enforcement are humans that make mistakes, and unfortunately they are entrusted with so much power that their mistakes cost lives. People just want transparency and accountability when that happens. Not a shrug and a taxpayer funded bailout without consequence
You seem to be in support of the unions that prioritize protecting those paying dues and maintaining budget increases though.
If you are a big union supporter that's fine, they are needed to a degree. But they need to be working in coordination with employers, not directly against them, to attain an achievable balance.
I love how your answer is deduced to fear mongering, "it could be worse, just wait". You can't scare everyone into subordination.
I question authority, as everyone should. Authority without question is absolute and we don't do that here. If people want that they can move to Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Qualified Immunity if the very thing that dissolves the potential for a civil suit though. Are you sure you know what you're defending entails?
Also, you cannot seriously be comparing law enforcement to doctors. Doctors are charged and convicted criminally all the time. https://apps2.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/CasesAgainstDoctors/spring/main?execution=e2s1
Prospective Doctors haven't been deterred.
Doctors, that go to school for 10+yrs to learn their practice and are required 3+yrs of residency; who will be fired and lose their practicing license if they violate their oath.
Please don't make that comparison.
You're whole side-note conjecture regarding Good Faith is a separate conversation. Just because the water services maintain clarity, pressure and infrastructure doesn't mean you can lump all issues therein to one paragraph. But...
Most everyone has good intentions. Hell, Hitler thought he was bringing Germany back to prominence. It's easy to look back now, but back then he had the support to make it happen. And he did. He just started taking too many "vitamins" everyday and went mad and tried to take too much.
ETA: Don't mince it up. I'm not suggesting police=hitler Germany. It was an example on the assumed Good Faith mentioned and the fallacy therein. Altruism is rare, especially for those holding the power. Please see below
Law enforcement are humans that make mistakes, and unfortunately they are entrusted with so much power that their mistakes cost lives. People just want transparency and accountability when that happens. Not a shrug and a taxpayer funded bailout without consequence
You seem to be in support of the unions that prioritize protecting those paying dues and maintaining budget increases though.
If you are a big union supporter that's fine, they are needed to a degree. But they need to be working in coordination with employers, not directly against them, to attain an achievable balance.
I love how your answer is deduced to fear mongering, "it could be worse, just wait". You can't scare everyone into subordination.
I question authority, as everyone should. Authority without question is absolute and we don't do that here. If people want that they can move to Iran or Saudi Arabia.
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Thanks. When I actually looked into the first 2 I was surprised and disappointed.
In that same vein as societal benefits though, I'd argue that legalizing alcohol wasn't beneficial to anyone.
Legalize - to stop ruining people's lives with felonies that didn't hurt anyone but the consumer.
Regulate - to take some power away from black market, gangs, cartels, etc.
Tax heavily - to generate revenue and deter people from becoming too dependent, unless they have the money to waste.
Allow states to dictate their own enforcement
In that same vein as societal benefits though, I'd argue that legalizing alcohol wasn't beneficial to anyone.
Legalize - to stop ruining people's lives with felonies that didn't hurt anyone but the consumer.
Regulate - to take some power away from black market, gangs, cartels, etc.
Tax heavily - to generate revenue and deter people from becoming too dependent, unless they have the money to waste.
Allow states to dictate their own enforcement
Nah. I know that whatever you want to call we're doing right now, ain't working. People were doing drugs in HS back in my day (2000s) and they're doing them now.
Drug abuse should have gone down, instead prison populations have skyrocketed since the 80s.
Plus we have the worst drug epidemic the country has ever seen. Life expectancy in the US has literally been going down the past few years as a direct correlation
Drug abuse should have gone down, instead prison populations have skyrocketed since the 80s.
Plus we have the worst drug epidemic the country has ever seen. Life expectancy in the US has literally been going down the past few years as a direct correlation
Doctors aren't charged criminally for basic malpractice (with the exception of prescribing pain meds, and a lot of doctors absolutely do just refuse to prescribe pain meds, even when they should be available, just because they'd rather the patient suffer than deal with the headache). And it's also relevant that in exchange for taking hte much smaller risk of getting charged, they get rich.
Qualified immunity should be greatly limited for government officials not reacting quickly in potentially life or death situations. For police officers, I'm not sure the problem is really with the doctrine as opposed to how judges have interpreted/applied it. A good first step would be legislation eliminating judge created qualified immunity and setting out a statutory scheme that at least provides a different standard for LEOs from bureaucrats
Very true. Those doctors can be sued for compensation though. They do not have qualified immunity.
My linked example was to point out that despite the tremendous amount of criminal convictions, we've never had more doctors than right now in the US. Not many were deterred from pursuing their passion, and if so, it was negligible.
Most importantly, LET'S NOT COMPARE DOCTORS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT
Because we make doctors rich. We artificially restrict the supply and subsidize demand, so no, liabilityh isn't a huge concern as long as they can get insurance. It's just a matter of how rich they will be.
That's probably a good idea, but if you're going to compare them, you can't say "civil liability doesn't seem to cause people to stop wanting to be doctors" when doctors get rich and have a reasonably safe job while cops are middle class at best (barring some ridiculous padding of pension benefits) and have a relatively dangerous job.
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