Bonnie Blue flag

Dec 9, 2018
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Why is the Bonnie Blue flag not an acceptable change? Doesn't get many votes in online polls but I have always liked it. Historically correct. Flag of the Republic of West Florida. Only criticism I have heard is that it was the unofficial flag of the Confederacy after seccession. Predates the Confederacy by 50 years. Is the art of compromise totally dead?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repub...ic of West Florida,a half months during 1810.
 
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QuaoarsKing

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Why is the Bonnie Blue flag not an acceptable change? Doesn't get many votes in online polls but I have always liked it. Historically correct. Flew over a great deal of the geographical are of Mississippi as the flag on the Republic of West Florida. Only criticism I have heard is that it was the unofficial flag of the Confederacy after seccession. Predates the Confederacy by 50 years. Is the art of compromise totally dead?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repub...ic of West Florida,a half months during 1810.

I think you answered your own question.
 

patdog

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Replacing one Confederate flag with another one isn't really much of a compromise.
 

wtw2400

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How come the same people that claim to be the best of patriots are also the same people that support a treasonous rebellion to the US and want to glorify it in every way possible? Might as well have ISIS logo as our flag if you're so obsessed with opposing the US.
 
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How come the same people that claim to be the best of patriots are also the same people that support a treasonous rebellion to the US and want to glorify it in every way possible? Might as well have ISIS logo as our flag if you're so obsessed with opposing the US.
The Republic of West Florida was annexed into the U.S. Still part of it. Read some history.
 
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They haven't moved, but they aren't nearly as narrow as you're trying to pretend they are, either.
The first flag of the Republic of Texas, the lone star flag was patterned after the Bonnie Blue. The current Texas flag references the Lone star flag with it single star. Is that racist as well? At what point is something not racist?
 
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WHOOSH


Why are we set on including symbols of traitors in our state flag? in other words why have any connection to the CSA at all?

The Stennis flag is patterned after the Bonnie Blue. If you don't believe me read the designer's description. By your argument it represents traitors as well.
When does something become not racist?

As I have said before, I have no problem with the Stennis flag.
 
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mstateglfr

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Again, is the art of compromise totally dead? Maybe you answered that.

I thought the change was to get rid of a symbol the KKK and Skinheads used. Goalposts have moved?

?

It isnt a compromise to say 'fine, we will get rid of this symbol which represents historical oppression, but you need to accept this other symbol which also represents the same historical oppression'.
Thats just substituting one offensive thing for another.


If I were allergic to gluten, then you agreeing to substitute a hamburger bun for sandwich bread isnt a compromise- Ill still be 17ed.


As for you asking if the goalposts have moved- no they havent. The goal is to get rid of a symbol that racists identify with, but the goal is also to come up with a flag that isnt still historically oppressive. That should be common sense. Otherwise, the conversation will start over and there will be a push to remove the new flag too.

This is really basic stuff, even you should be able to follow along.
Just come up with something new that represents MS now instead of what MS was 200 years ago. 4 colors representing the delta, coast, wooded, and hills of MS. Or just literally this on a blue flag- View attachment 16537
 
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mstateglfr

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Read the entire thread again, dickhead. Try to comprehend.

Again, I ask the question: When does something become non-racist?

When it isnt offensive to a races.

But its more than just not being overtly racist- it shouldnt be a representation of a historically oppressive time. That isnt what anyone should want for a flag of their state. Oklahoma(and other states) shouldnt want their flag to be a picture of the trail of tears. California shouldnt want a flag that has a Japanese internment camp on it.
etc etc etc.
 

QuaoarsKing

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The Stennis flag is patterned after the Bonnie Blue. If you don't believe me read the designer's description. By your argument it represents traitors as well.
When does something become not racist?

As I have said before, I have no problem with the Stennis flag.

It's intentionally inverted to flip the meaning around.
 

WilCoDawg

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Don’t bother bringing up facts. All the SJWs have been triggered. They move the goal posts on you to suit their argument.
I in no way support the idea of slavery, but I do get amused by people throwing terms of “traitors” around when talking about the CSA. Those idiots obviously don’t know history and like to pick and chose which “traitors” they support. Then again, the Founding Fathers, are being targeted now so maybe those traitors aren’t appreciated any longer.
And speaking of Texas and their flag, the US sure welcomed those “traitors” into the fold after they fought Mexico.
 

QuaoarsKing

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Don’t bother bringing up facts. All the SJWs have been triggered. They move the goal posts on you to suit their argument.
I in no way support the idea of slavery, but I do get amused by people throwing terms of “traitors” around when talking about the CSA. Those idiots obviously don’t know history and like to pick and chose which “traitors” they support. Then again, the Founding Fathers, are being targeted now so maybe those traitors aren’t appreciated any longer.
And speaking of Texas and their flag, the US sure welcomed those “traitors” into the fold after they fought Mexico.

Weird argument. It's not that all traitors are inherently bad no matter what, its whom they were a traitor to.

Being a traitor to America is bad. Being a traitor to another country is fine by me, although I could see a Brit or Mexican disagreeing in your examples.
 

WilCoDawg

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So how were they “traitors” to the US? They seceded. They didn’t betray the US. It’s no different than those pushing for Kalifornia’s succession. Or Vermont. Are those people traitors too? Should they be hanged at the gallows for treason?
 
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When it isnt offensive to a races.

But its more than just not being overtly racist- it shouldnt be a representation of a historically oppressive time. That isnt what anyone should want for a flag of their state. Oklahoma(and other states) shouldnt want their flag to be a picture of the trail of tears. California shouldnt want a flag that has a Japanese internment camp on it.
etc etc etc.

Then we have a really big problem. There has never been a time, and never will be, in this country or in any other, that is not oppressive to some race, some group, or some belief system. A white star on a blue field is only oppressive if YOU, YOURSELF want to make it to be so.

The First flag of the Republic of Texas is the exact same flag with a different shade of blue as the Bonnie Blue flag. One is considered oppressive and one is not.
 

WilCoDawg

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If that’s true, then why don’t they just invert the colors of the Stars and Bars?
 

QuaoarsKing

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So what how we’re they “traitors” to the US? They succeeded. They didn’t betray the US. It’s no different than those pushing for Kalifornia’s succession. Or Vermont. Are those people traitors too? Should they be hanged at the gallows for treason?

I don't support hanging, but yes if California or Vermont or Texas secedes (none of them ever will, but hypothetically), then yes their leadership would be traitors and certainly shouldn't get any statutes built when the rebellion is put down and they're brought back within the Union.
 

Dawgzilla

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I thought the change was to get rid of a symbol the KKK and Skinheads used. Goalposts have moved?

The goalposts moved, but it happened some time ago. The Rebel flag was the original target, based on its use by hate groups. It may sound odd now, but 40 years ago "honoring the Confederacy" was actually considered a DEFENSE to flying the Rebel flag. ("We aren't racist, we are just honoring our heritage!"). The capitol building in Montgomery was the first Capitol of the confederacy, so flying the Rebel flag (but not the actual flag of the CSA) was just historically significant.** South Carolina just flew the flag to celebrate the centennial of the Confederacy, and then they just forgot to set a date for taking the flag down.

But, somewhere along the way, someone finally asked why we were honoring the Confederacy, anyway??
 

mstateglfr

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Then we have a really big problem. There has never been a time, and never will be, in this country or in any other, that is not oppressive to some race, some group, or some belief system. A white star on a blue field is only oppressive if YOU, YOURSELF want to make it to be so.

The First flag of the Republic of Texas is the exact same flag with a different shade of blue as the Bonnie Blue flag. One is considered oppressive and one is not.



I agree- someone can always be offended by something. But you are (presumably)smart enough to know that not literally everyone needs to be on board with something for it to be deemed 'ok' and acceptable.

As for the white star on a blue background- I agree that such an image in and of itself is not offensive. If there is offensive history to that image though, well then that is another story.
 

WilCoDawg

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But why would you try to prevent those states from leaving the union? Don’t they have an “inalienable right” to be governed how they see fit?
 

SheltonChoked

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The Stennis flag is patterned after the Bonnie Blue. If you don't believe me read the designer's description. By your argument it represents traitors as well.
When does something become not racist?

As I have said before, I have no problem with the Stennis flag.

But it is not the bonnie blue flag, is it?
.
 

CreekFishin

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It might have been acceptable in 1894. Any ties to slavery, the confederacy or Jim Crow is unacceptable in 2020.
 

PhredPhantom

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No, states cannot secede. We're all stuck with each other.

Every southern state entered the union voluntarily. At the time when the southern states joined the union, inability to leave the union was not specified as a condition of joining. To be fair and right, they had, and should still have, the right to leave the union whenever they want if they joined the union under those conditions, or lack of conditions. They were held by armed force against the will of their people. After they seceded the United States invaded the South where virtually all of the war was fought. Ulysses S. Grant conducted a domestic terror campaign, serving as an agent of the federal government, that looted, burned, and destroyed private homes and businesses throughout the southern states in addition to killing soldiers defending their states against northern aggression. The southern states and armed forces did not, except in one case, invade any states that remained as part of the union.

When you go to a football or baseball game, you can leave whenever you want. You are not held against your will. You can leave any time you want and for any reason. You can support any team of your choice and can even switch the team you support during the game if you so choose. You are not forced at gunpoint to support a particular team; even the home team.

Now in this country, if you have committed a crime and been sentenced for it, you are forced to go to prison. You do not go voluntarily. You are held in prison by armed force against your will.

The southern states had committed no crime.

Right is right.

Fun Fact:

In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation issued by Abraham Lincoln was only meant to free slaves in the southern states. It did not apply to the slaves in the northern states and there were some - certainly not as many as in the south but they were there and it was several years before they were eventually freed by the federal government.

Obligatory Disclaimers:

I do not think slavery was right. I do think slavery was wrong. I do not hate black people. I like people of all races until any particular person gives me a valid reason to not like them. I try to judge people by the content of their character; not the color of their skin. Martin L. King had it right.

I think the "Black Lives Matter" slogan is provocative because it implies that black lives matter more than other lives. I think the better slogan would be "Black Lives Matter Too." That would not be nearly as divisive but it seems to me that divisiveness was the intention in the first place.

I also do not think it is normally in the best interest of this country or any state for a state or states to secede but, in fairness, they should have that right.

I like the current Mississippi state flag and would vote to keep it but if the majority of the voters of this state vote to change it then I believe that the majority should rule. I'm fine with that but I think the voters of Mississippi should vote on whether to change it; not the legislators. I especially don't like the NCAA, the SEC, or other outside parties laying down ultimatums to change our flag whether we want to or not. As much as I want to play tournaments here, History and my heritage, including some of my ancestors, is a little more important to me than a sports game.

Finally, I fully expect to have several people here on SixPack disagree with my opinions. Their opinions are as valuable as mine but not more valuable than mine. An opinion is just that; an opinion. I cannot and would not think that other people have to agree with my opinions and, by the same token, I don't have to necessarily agree with theirs. That doesn't mean that we can't have a civil discussion.

I'll hang up and listen.
 

Misfit

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I keep seeing supporters of the Confederacy tell people they need to read some history and have to wonder what history they want us to read. My guess is you want us to read the history that was invented by the widows of the Confederate dead when they started realizing that their husbands had died for a horrible cause. I have read Mississippi's statement of reasons for secession and know that the only reason the illustrious L. Q. C. Lamar put forward was that God had made Black people capable of standing the Southern heat and humidity so obviously God intended them to work in the fields and be owned by White people. Have you read it? I have read the Constitution of the CSA, which gives the lie to the BS that Southern planters were on the verge of freeing their slaves if Lincoln had just left them alone. Have you? I know that your user name was the first thing ardent racist Andrew Johnson took from the few recently emancipated Black people who had been lucky enough to receive it in the first place. Do you?
 

WilCoDawg

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The US=Hotel California. Got it. So an individual can leave, but not a group of individuals. What are your thoughts on CHOP/CHAZ/whatever the name de jour?
 

QuaoarsKing

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Read up on Texas v. White. States cannot secede without permission from the federal government, period.