@CCHS-Fan I don't think this applies to CoM becuase it's only if there are more than 2 private options within 15 miles, which for most of lake county....there is not.
Amendment Proposals IHSA
- Thread starter sporthog_9er
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This is good for a mid week discussion before games but it’s not going to pass. If your getting a monthly tuition invoice and your paying to attend a school there should no restrictions whatsoever on who should be able to attend, period.
I laugh again at them playing the safety reasons card. Should you only attend College 15 miles from your home for safety reasons? Please. This is an attempt to keep their area talent in their area, it has nothing to do with safety. It’s their right to make proposals, but proposals get rejected all the time.
I laugh again at them playing the safety reasons card. Should you only attend College 15 miles from your home for safety reasons? Please. This is an attempt to keep their area talent in their area, it has nothing to do with safety. It’s their right to make proposals, but proposals get rejected all the time.
I don't think this proposal would apply to JCA. As I previously mentioned, other than Provi I don't think there are any other private high schools within a 15 mile radius of JCA and the proposal states, "if a student’s residence has 2 or fewer private schools within the 15-mile radius, the radius will be expanded to a 30-mile radius".
By car Marist is 13.9 mile from Mount Carmel but Brother Rice and St. Rita are in the middle of that trip. How does that effect those schools?
Bored at lunch and I'm spending more time thinking (and google earthing) about this than I should, but it's based on the students residence, not the schools location. For example, Google Earth tells me someone living in Burr Ridge, parts of Orland Park, Tinley Park would be more than 15 miles from JCA and have more than 2 other options.
The way I interpret this is that they can choose the school they wish to attend as long as it is within 15 miles of their home address.
Just to be clear - the IHSA can't (and isn't in this proposal) barring students from attending any private school they choose. Just restricting their ability to participate in athletics.
Not saying I agree with the proposal - but it wouldn't prevent attendance at any private school of choice. Deals only with extracurricular athletics (unless I'm missing something big).
And extracurricular activities play a huge role in private schools. A large percentage of students would not enroll in a particular school if they were not allowed to participate in IHSA sanctioned activities.
I like vacationing in Florida. But if you told me I was welcome to go to Florida, but can't go to the beach, would probably change my mind.
Some of these proposals might actually help the weaker private schools. So many private school kids drive past Immaculate Weak Sister Catholic to attend Always Wins Power Catholic, the school where 50% of the boys are on the football team. A boost to the closer private school isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Proposal 8 is very interesting....
It not only effects football but many other sports....
I just saw yesterday that HF's basketball coach made an announcement that he switched from Team Rose to Meanstreets for AAU basketball
How would they rule on Tom Nelson from Hersey who also owns and operates TNT Speed?
Tai Streets who is the Head Basketball Coach at Thornton but also operates Meanstreets AAU?
Jordan Blanton who is the Head Wrestling Coach at Woodstock Marian but also operates Relentless Training Center?
Chuck Gandolfi that is the Head Baseball Coach at Carmel but also operates Illinois Lightning Travel Baseball?
You have some good people that are trying to help kids but I also see the recruiting aspect of it in both Public and Private schools.
It not only effects football but many other sports....
I just saw yesterday that HF's basketball coach made an announcement that he switched from Team Rose to Meanstreets for AAU basketball
How would they rule on Tom Nelson from Hersey who also owns and operates TNT Speed?
Tai Streets who is the Head Basketball Coach at Thornton but also operates Meanstreets AAU?
Jordan Blanton who is the Head Wrestling Coach at Woodstock Marian but also operates Relentless Training Center?
Chuck Gandolfi that is the Head Baseball Coach at Carmel but also operates Illinois Lightning Travel Baseball?
You have some good people that are trying to help kids but I also see the recruiting aspect of it in both Public and Private schools.
As long as it's football and basketball. How many of the football powerhouses even have a marching band? Does Mount Carmel have a marching band?
If schools are tired of losing to Loyola and MC I would say to them is it any difference to losing to LWE, MS, ESTL ect...?
This exception in the proposal is MEANINGLESS to what many families are looking for in a private school. It shows the public school mentality that a private school is a private school is a private school. As far as the proposers of this amendment are concerned, you seen one private school, you seen 'em all.
The proposers of this amendment don't understand about differences in religious education. They don't understand about differences WITHIN the Catholic faith with respect to the different religious communities that run many Catholic schools and how, for example, Jesuits have different educational philosophies than Dominicans. They don't understand about differences with respect to single gender vs coeducation. They don't understand about differences with respect to school size. They don't understand about differences in tuition. And, why would they understand these things? They simply do not register in their public school mindset.
Imagine I'm Jewish, and I want to send my kid to a Jewish high school and he wants to play sports there. However, the closest JEWISH high school is over 15 miles away with lots of non-sectarian, Catholic, Christian, and even Muslim high schools in between where I live and the closest Jewish school. I can still send my kid to the closest Jewish high school, but he can't play sports? You seen one private school, you seen 'em all.
If I want my kid to have a single gender girls Catholic education, and I live in Hanover Park, 16 miles straight west of Resurrection College Prep, does she not get to play sports there because coed Elgin Academy (with its full cost tuition that is $12K MORE than Resurrection), and coed St. Ed's, coed Harvest Christian, and coed Westminster Christian are all closer to our home than Resurrection? You seen one private school, you seen 'em all.
If I want my kid to study Mandarin at a Catholic high school and I live over 15 miles from Loyola, are you telling me that he or she can't play sports there because there are plenty of private high schools within a 15 mile radius from my home REGARDLESS of the fact that none of them offer Mandarin and Loyola does? You seen one private school, you seen 'em all.
If I follow the Opus Dei movement within Catholicism and I want my kid son to go to an Opus Dei school, but we live more than 15 miles from Northridge Prep, can he really not play sports there because Loyola, Notre Dame, Christian Heritage Academy, North Shore Country Day School, and the two Jewish schools in Skokie (among others) are all within 15 miles of my house and Northridge Prep (the only Opus Dei school for boys in the Chicago area) isn't? You seen one private school, you seen 'em all.
This proposed amendment sucks.
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Some schools feel like they are losing to LWE because they lose players to MC, Marist, etc. I am not saying I agree, but just sharing what I hear from others.
There are 4 private schools and 4 public schools in Rockford, il. Every single school is fighting for kids, no matter if they are athletes or not. Private schools are not the only ones marketing their athletic programs. East, Auburn, Guilford and Jefferson are all trying to get kids to play at their school. They would be fools not to. So when I hear the word recruiting, I don’t associate it with private schools. Boundaries don’t mean a thing in todays landscape, because parents are willing to move and schools offer special programs that don’t require residency inside a specified boundary. This is true in Rockford for sure. I’m not familiar with the dynamics of how things work with Chicago area private schools. Another unique aspect of the private schools in Rockford is they all play in public school conferences.
Not everybody plays in 8a, tom. What if you are tiny Pitstick High School in Pitstick, Il and have a once-in-a generation team but have NO CHANCE of winning a title because Elmhurst IC Catholic, Springfield Sacred Heart, or Joliet Catholic stand in your way? These schools draw from a 400k population area and Pitstick has 3,000 people in their entire town.
Loyola, Rice, Providence, Notre Dame, Carmel Catholic, Marist, Marian Catholic, and Benet all have marching bands.
What's your point?
Your premise is those kids BELONG to the public school? That what is wrong with public education. No competition.
How about Providence losing to JCA because kids that were at PC left because of the property tax increase.
Level the playing field with tuition vouchers and open boarders.
About 40% of LA’s 15-mile radius is in Lake Michigan. Would students need to live aboard ship year-round or just during the school year?
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So we should not classify schools by enrolment but by the size of their town? Take the privates out of the mix. Should charter schools be eliminated?
Great observations! My question to this for you and all private school parents is, how often do the examples you just listed come into play? How often to parents take religious ideology into account when choosing a school versus, academic curriculum, athletics, family tradition? Were you just making a point based on what the proposal is or are these examples a top priority?
Why does it matter how often those examples come into play? If it only happens a handful of times, then, what? You don't want to create rules around outliers?
My questions are:
Why create the rule to begin with? What good does it accomplish? Does it result in more of fewer kids playing sports? Is it really necessary? What study/research has been undertaken to put some empirical data in support of the rule?
All-girls Regina Dominican is a mile away from coed Loyola Academy, and Notre Dame is about five miles from Loyola. Regina and Notre Dame exist because there are families who want single gender education for their kids. All-girls Our Lady of Tepeyac HIgh School is 1.5 miles from Cristo Rey Jesuit High School. OLT exists because there are families who want single gender education for their girls.
Why are you arguing this point? Where do YOU stand on it? What is the rationale for reducing the eligibility radius from 30 to 15 miles? If you don't have a good reason, then aren't you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
I would like to turn that question around and ask the parents who went to a private school but send their kids to a public school , why? Especially those parents who can afford a private school. My personal belief is there is no loyalty anymore and tradition isn’t as important to the parents today as it was to the parents 25+ years ago. Just my opinion
Depends where you live that determines how much value a private school adds. When we looked at houses there were some houses where we would have sent out kids to private school but we ended choosing a house where the value added by going to private school isn't that great so we don't use them. Most of these proposals are are really trying to address private schools recruiting not trying to limit school choice which many in this thread are trying to imply. Some (not all) of the private schools are over with recruiting and it pisses a lot of people off.
To your point about all the schools single gendered and coed around Loyola then there is no issue and this proposal doesn't apply if all those schools truly are that close. If all of those schools are within a 15 mile radius to where your home address is then they can go to whatever school you want them to and play sports.
Calm yourself down! Please point out where I am arguing with anyone. Stated multiple times in my earlier posts that I don't know a lot about this aspect of private schools so that's why I'm asking so many questions, to educate myself. Is that ok with you? I currently don't have a stance, yet again why I've been asking so many questions. If you weren't so hot and bothered you would notice that I've been respectful in what I've been asking and curious to see how everyone feels about it.
Way to turn a civil midweek discussion while we wait for round 2 games into something negative. Seems like you're the one looking for an argument.
Ramblin really doesn’t get so ‘hot and bothered’ until his Ramblers meet up with NT, MS or LWE.
"If all of those schools are within a 15 mile radius to where your home address is then they can go to whatever school you want them to and play sports."
Lucky me. But how lucky am I if I fall into the "great observations" as you called them?
You are arguing a position. You are liking posts from others in this thread that refer to private schools overrecruiting. It's okay to argue a position. There's nothing wrong with arguing. Where it gets contentious is when it becomes argumentative and arguing for the sake of arguing.
Yes, of course you can ask questions, but your question of how often do those great observations really occur is a question with an obvious underlying position that if they don't happen often then they should be somehow discounted in favor of the common good. But, that assumes that the proposed amendment is a good amendment to begin with and it should be approved if only a relative handful of kids are negatively impacted. My counter to that assumption is why is the amendment necessary in the first place? Where is the data that says that too many private school athletes are coming from 15-30 miles away from home?
Am I hot and bothered? Yeah. The proposed amendment sucks.
Do you think it sucks?
Not so fast.
If I am known for anything on this board over the years it is for getting hot and bothered about the IHSA and the discriminatory ways that the overwhelming public school majority in that organization treat the minority private school members.
It’s always funny to me that safety issues are brought up and the adults bringing them up claim to be looking out for the kids… yet they rarely is ever ask the families of those kids who they’re trying to protect what they think of these issues.
These families aren’t making these types of commutes daily without thinking about the sacrifices they will have to make to ensure it is worth it for their family. They had the option to look at the other private schools and public schools that they drive past on their way to the school of their choice, and they chose not to attend those other schools for a reason.
Perhaps an amendment should be put forward to the fine folks at Andrew, Stagg and Sandburg that any student eligible within their respective boundaries who chooses to attend a private/Catholic high school their respective district forfeits $15,000 to educate said students?
I also liked posts by JCHillman explaining the financial ramifications of private schools losing kids to this proposal and ClownBaby's post about his thought process between determining private vs. public schools for his kids.
Should it be discounted in favor of the common good? That's one way to put it. I think of it as an 80/20 situation. Do 80% of families take into account your observations or is it more towards the 20%? Not only in this instance but yes, I feel that policy should be catered towards the common good in most situations, majority rules. I would have never considered religious ideology as a deciding factor that private school families take into account when choosing a school so, yes, to me that was a great observation.
As far as if the amendment is necessary and if there is data that shows too many private school athletes are coming from further than 15 miles away, only the IHSA can answer that and being that it's the IHSA they likely never will.
I don't see where I'm arguing either side. I've literally just been asking questions about the effects on private schools if this were to pass (it won't and likely won't even be put to a vote). Things didn't start getting argumentative until you chimed in.
At this point I would say that I don't have enough information to say whether it sucks or not. Hence the reason for all my questions.
As others have said, if this is just the latest move by the IHSA to get private schools to secede from the IHSA how do you feel about that? Do you want private schools to be separated in athletics?
I'm not saying SFHS is a football power but they have a band.
In order to be in the same class as SHG or JCA, Pitstick would have to have around 600 students in its high school. With 3000 people in the entire town, we are looking at 1 in 5 people being in high school. Did they film "Children of the Corn" in Pitstick?
It's a total red herring.
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