2027 Recruiting Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
Far be it from me to criticize the opinions of the established posters with vast experience, but it seems to me that some coaches are just better football coaches than others. The last ten years we had a guy who was a A graded recruiter and a C+ game coach. Overall he was a solid B. He beat the teams that lacked talent and typically (usually, normally of generally) lost to teams that had kids equal to or better than his. The AD decided that was no longer tolerable to a fan base that expected more from a program they had given so much much financial and fan support.
The current coach we will just have to see. He likely will be an upgrade as a game coach, but his recruiting chops will have to be proven. He has resources now he could only dream of having at his last job.
I say this while acknowledging that recruiting high school kids is important, but it no longer holds the level of importance it once had. When I say "recruiting" I no longer mean adding high school kids, I include players he brings in who have played at other programs.
A great coach can take a small group of outstanding players, add established players from other teams, and build a winner immediately. He can challenge for conference titles too. "Free agency" has changed the college game. We will see if the current staff has the ability to put together a winner without the overall 4 star talent their predecessors possessed. What we do know is that our last coach lacked the ability to get that done.
The current coach we will just have to see. He likely will be an upgrade as a game coach, but his recruiting chops will have to be proven. He has resources now he could only dream of having at his last job.
I say this while acknowledging that recruiting high school kids is important, but it no longer holds the level of importance it once had. When I say "recruiting" I no longer mean adding high school kids, I include players he brings in who have played at other programs.
A great coach can take a small group of outstanding players, add established players from other teams, and build a winner immediately. He can challenge for conference titles too. "Free agency" has changed the college game. We will see if the current staff has the ability to put together a winner without the overall 4 star talent their predecessors possessed. What we do know is that our last coach lacked the ability to get that done.
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I respectfully disagree. In no way was Franklin an A grade recruiter. Just look at the consistent failures of recruiting WRs, DTs, and most recently LBs. The major holes in the roster was one of the reasons for Franklin’s inability to defeat many of the top ranked teams.
Which group is worse? The crazy Joebots or the crazy Franklinbots?
Both groups would never admit it was time for the institution to move on from them.
Joe was way past time for his removal and Franklin proved at the end, it was time. Joe pretty much built the program and James helped lift it up at a time of need. Give each man their props and move the hell on.
It’s MC’s team now!
Both groups would never admit it was time for the institution to move on from them.
Joe was way past time for his removal and Franklin proved at the end, it was time. Joe pretty much built the program and James helped lift it up at a time of need. Give each man their props and move the hell on.
It’s MC’s team now!
15th in the country is dogshit? See what I mean? It seems stupid.
I give Franklin credit for recruiting top classes of talent. If you look at the record he brought in plenty of wideouts and linemen who were 4 stars. In his early years the wideouts were outstanding, often playing in the NFL, but that changed the last couple years. As for LBs he had several kids leave this decade after their junior years. Those guys are on NFL rosters. That turnover is hard to manage, but I will give him credit for bringing in good kids. The DL and OL kids have been competitive, so I dont see any glaring issues there.
IMO his problem is that his game day performance was not outstanding, given the talent he possessed.
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Penn States offensive has pretty much been *** since Franklin arrived so Virginia Tech will never have a good offensive line
if you watched the games we lost those big games due to his his awful coaching not lack of talent
I am the rare PSU alum that acknowledges the amazing contributions that both Joe and James made to the university.
I'd like to think so too but he wasn't able to hold top 2027 commits after Franklin was fired (Spell, Von Brandt, Jenkins, Littlejohn, etc). Obviously there was too much uncertainty for Terry to overcome.
I specifically said the positional recruiting weaknesses were “one of the reasons” for Franklin’s failure to defeat the better teams. Totally agree, the primary reason for the failure was the dreadful coaching and a long string of disastrous offense coordinator hires.
Almost everybody thinks Joe stayed too long. That said he averaged nearly 10 wins and won two BiG titles in his last 7 years.
I think most people think it was time for Franklin to go. The problem was the way it was handled. PSU was one of the first teams to fire their coach and one of the last teams to name a replacement. That allowed the entire recruiting class to fall apart.
I think Campbell can be a good coach but he inherited a depleted roster and he doesn't have recruiting connections in the northeast. It's going to take some time to rebuild.
IIRC: Smith was - as Marshall stated - the highest paid POSITION COACH (that would exclude Head Coaches and Coordinators).
Obviously, many coordinators making more - but I think Smith was around $1.8 million or so - which was/is the most highly comped position coach, IIRC.
Last year, of course, PSU paid their two coordinators each well over that amount. In fact, PSU had the most expensive coaching staff (the 10 guys including the coordinators and position coaches) in the history of college football. That worked out less than well.
Not sure where they stand this year. I can't imagine they are paying these coordinators as much as Kotelniki and the DC who is now at Tennessee.
But they are probably paying plenty - and I would expect that just about everyone on the current PSU staff got huge raises (only a couple of whom had any impressive marks on their resumes prior to getting PSU gigs - Danton Lynn being the one likely exception)
Damn you, damn you to hell!I am the rare PSU alum that acknowledges the amazing contributions that both Joe and James made to the university.
Maybe that was a bit strong? Sorry.
If I recall, some of those early WRs were recruited by Bill O’Brien when they verbally committed to Penn State. For example, Chris Godwin and Mike Gesicki reconfirmed their Penn State commitments after the coaching change from BOB to Franklin.
Just a cursory look at the highly rated classes that JF put together for the years from 20' to 24' should be all the proof that industry rankings and/or JF rankings clearly over valued by JF. I used these years as they are the most recent where we can objectively gage what type of player they are or will become based off of actual playing time. Using Rivals ON3 rankings of 4- & 5-star players only, which accounts for the high team rankings he achieved during those years.
2020-
Ranked 14th had 14 players ranked 4 or 5 stars and of those only 4 can be considered players who has lived up to that ranking. 2 who had decent careers and 8 who would be considered a bust or did very little at PSU.
2021-
Ranked 18th had 6 players ranked 4 or 5 stars and of those only 1 lived up to their ranking. 2 who were average players and 3 who were considered busts or dis very little at PSU.
2022-
Ranked 7th had 15 players ranked 4 or 5 stars and of those only 2 lived up to their ranking. 4 who were average players and 9 who were considered busts or did very little at PSU.
2023-
Ranked 14th had 13 players ranked 4 or 5 stars and of those only 2 lived up to their ranking. 1 who was an average player and 10 who were considered busts or did very little at PSU.
2024-
Ranked 15th had 13 players ranked 4 or 5 stars and of those only 1 so far has lived up to their ranking. 4 who are average players and 8 so far have either not played enough to judge or have showed very little ability to make an impact moving forward for a power 4 program.
I am thankful for the time JF was at PSU. He came here under the most difficult of circumstances and did both the university and him proud. I will always be thankful for JF and Bill O for helping to continue the great tradition that is PSU football. With this said JF was not a great recruiter. Too many fringe 4 star players who were average or did not contribute and his hit rate was way below average. JF had too many positions that he ignored or recruited poorly to be considered a great recruiter. We have to wait on any reasonable ranking of HCMC till they have actually played a game. IMHO, I like what he has done so far, I think his hit rate will be much higher than what we have seen. But that is just MHO.
Franklin did have at lease 3 wideouts drafted by the NFL in the last 5 or 6 years. I know that is hard to believe.
I’m convinced Campbell paid all of his Iowa State transfer players 1 million dollars. TEMU budget for recruiting
Interesting that the best players recently have mostly been the guys with 87-89 ranks. Warren was a 3 star. Vega a 3 star. Abdul Carter was a borderline 3/4 star. No doubt for most programs stars correlate to success in the long term, but its interesting to think that may not have been as true for Franklin.
I always wondered if Franklin put too much emphasis on "measurables" (ie "length", 40 yard dash times, ect), and not enough on whether a recruit was actually a good football player. Best example, i remember a lineman back in the early franklin years (Sterling Jenkins?) who was a huge, fast 5 star but for some reason was not even all-conference in high school. Never saw the field at Penn State.
If you have any doubts about how we feel about Wood, Brian Dohn from 247 posted that PSU made Will Wood the priority two weeks ago and told Bourque we would wait for Wood’s decision first before taking another QB. I could post that screenshot, but I might get in trouble here. Also of note, per our insiders, Bourque turned both PSU and Georgia off with all the monetary demands. Neither was a true player for him at the end. The OSU and Auburn noise was the agent putting out false information as neither school was truly interested in him. James bid against himself and gave PB top dollar. PB really did not want to go to vt but burned bridges with his two top schools.
How do we know it's a loss. The more I learbed about
How do we know it's a loss. I really don't trust the rating services and the more I hear about Wood the more I like him over Borque. Also, I think Wood better suits the new system. I see Wood as a better over all athlete better feet more accurate and a better decision maker solely based on the film we can find and comments by those who have seen both Wood and Borque play.
It sounds like that may be his destination. He is one that I would agree with all would be a huge disappointment if it is true. There’s no football reason for him to go there - awful offense, program in long-term decline, less visibility. That is just chasing the bag.
So PSU may only get one commit out of the top 20 kids in PA?
Attention all star gazers, Jamir Dean just got re-rated and earned his 4th star, as will more of our commits.
Seeing as to how VT bid against itself for James Franklin, who wasn't getting offers anywhere else, they appear meant for one another.
If there is one thing I worry about, Georgia lately seems to love Matt Campbell recruits. Will Wood and Jamir Dean seem tight (Jamir quickly recruiting Wood to PSU after committing), so it would be really annoying if Georgia lures Dean away and then uses him to get in Will Wood's ear. Of course, whether that matters all depends on if Will Wood even commits to PSU.
Are the JoeBots people that didn't think Joe should have retired or simply angry at the gutless PSU board for treating him like crap to save their own a## and cowardly firing him over the phone?
Yes he was a good recruiter (not very good or certainly not elite)and a lousy game strategist and coach. I am also thinking he is a poor leader and wonder if a couple of those OCs could have worked out if he had more vision, better management skills and a better ability to adapt.
The Joebots I’m referring to are the morons that NEVER gave O’Brien or Franklin a damn chance and will not give MC a chance. Some of them want PSU to lose every game till this day..
Same as the Franklinbots now… they want MC and PSU to lose on the field and recruiting.
You don't know how things will play out. You already are assuming we will lose 4 -5 games each of the next two seasons. A lot of unknowns. None of us know Campbell and what he really can do.
As for firing BGJ, needed to happen when it did. Criticize that the search took too long, that is your perogative and complain that we lost some high end recruits that also is your perogative. I think no matter how seamlessly the firing and subsequent search went we were going to lose recruits.
I am very pleased we got Campbell. We did well to get him. Elko, Cignetti, DeBoer were never coming. We are doing pretty well in recruiting eastern guys. We should land Will Wood today who is from Mass. I think the RB we just got is from NJ. It is early days, excited for a new and refreshed day with PSU football.
I think they end up with a couple more of the top 20 and in the end maybe the guys that are 21, 23 and 35 might jump up over a few of the guys in the teens.
I dont think they really were ever in the mix for #1, 4 or 9. Then we obviously had RBs other than Spell who they liked more than the guys at 15, 18 and 22. Same with the WR, if they get #6, the others aren't what they want.
This is false. I see no evidence of Franklin bots. I see anti-Franklin bots (who've been around for years) and I see whatever-PSU-has-right-now-bots, but I don't see anyone deifying Franklin. I see burgeoning Campbell-bots, and he hasn't even done anything yet. I see people who ignore reality and facts, and then claim reliance on rankings to justify and promote a recruiting eventuality. Then I see those same people turn around and denounce other rankings, and defer to the coaching staff, when it makes that recruit look better.
"What, am I supposed to go against rankings?!? Pshaw!"
"Well, look at these rankings, which say the opposite of what you claim"
"Obviously, these folks know more than the rankings ... listen to them!"
And then, when "those folks" generally don't support a contention (via offers, or lack thereof), these folks say to ignore even that, and only trust in one particular person.
Can't we just be reasonable?
I actually think they were squarely in the mix for Spell. You don’t visit a place that many times unless you are interested. The coaching change may have changed the course with him, but he certainly gave PSU every opportunity to seal the deal. I’m guessing NIL was a major factor too.