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Freshman Led Teams Just Aren’t Winning The Titles Anymore

I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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FLBBNFAN said:
I would say if we measure overall success in the last 26 years that most teams I would think have some freshmen as part of their rotation. I am not using a NC as the model for success because winning a natty is not the norm for any school.

I would look at winning your conference for the regular season, conference tourney championship, EE etc. I bet there are/were freshman who contributed to that success .
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Nobody here thinks you can’t have a freshman as part of the rotation. The point is about NECESSITY. Freshman are not a NECESSITY. There is no specific requirement that your fourth or fifth best player be a freshman, a sophomore, a junior or a senior.
 
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TALtruthatlast

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ZaytovenCat said:
What a moronic post. UConn doesn’t even make the final four without a freshman. Specifically one Pope basically turned down to pick bum over.

It takes both freshmen and transfers to win. UConn has won with a clear formula. 1-2 highly talented freshmen, 2-4 returnees and 2-3 real good transfers.

Problem is Pope can’t get either one of talented freshmen or good transfers.
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I think there’s a difference between having freshmen as your key go to guys versus having freshmen as key role players. No one said freshmen are invalids and one hitting a shot to win a game is hardly a stunner or disproves the argument that relying overly on OAD’s is a bad idea.
 
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FLBBNFAN

FLBBNFAN

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Nobody here thinks you can’t have a freshman as part of the rotation. The point is about NECESSITY. Freshman are not a NECESSITY. There is no specific requirement that your fourth or fifth best player be a freshman, a sophomore, a junior or a senior.
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Ok but you do realize our coach disagrees with you on that point and that they are a necessity. Pope has spent the past 2 seasons criss crossing the entire country trying to reel in every top 5* .

Just because we cant land a top freshman recruit doesn't imply they aren't needed in our rotation. A big difference there.
 
I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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FLBBNFAN said:
Ok but you do realize our coach disagrees with you on that point and that they are a necessity. Pope has spent the past 2 seasons criss crossing the entire country trying to reel in every top 5* .

Just because we cant land a top freshman recruit doesn't imply they aren't needed in our rotation. A big difference there.
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You must not know my post history.

One of my biggest criticisms of Pope is that he prioritized raw talent over fit in year two.

We also saw Kelvin Sampson finally drop big time in quality when he started building around more freshman.

Freshman as supplementary pieces (a la Karaban in 2023 or McKinney in 2026) are fine, but when you have to depend on them to lead you through a one and done tournament, it has not proven to work in this era.
 
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AJG-15

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Greatest freshman class of all time and yet the national championship game is going to be between two veteran led teams.

Michigan’s fourth leading scorer is a freshman.
UConn’s fifth and sixth leading scorers are freshman.

I wonder why things have changed so much. What do you think caused it?
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UConn freshman says hello.


takes a talented freshman to take down other talented freshmanteam that could win the Title.

all the champs in the last 15 years had super talented freshmen.

you need both experience and super talented freshmen to win a championship.

experience can run the coach’ system but talent takes over the game when other coaches block the system.

super talented players are typically freshman other emise they are already in nba .
 
I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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AJG-15 said:
UConn freshman says hello.


takes a talented freshman to take down other talented freshmanteam that could win the Title.

all the champs in the last 15 years had super talented freshmen.

you need both experience and super talented freshmen to win a championship.

experience can run the coach’ system but talent takes over the game when other coaches block the system.

super talented players are typically freshman other emise they are already in nba .
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Hello to the fourth leading scorer.

P.S. no one thinks you can’t have a freshman as your fourth or fifth leading scorer.

To be the “most knowledgeable fanbase in CBB” we sure do have a lot of people that struggle to understand a basic point:

THE POINT: Overreliance on OAD freshman is a net negative if you want to cut down the nets. The teams that are winning all the titles have experienced stars leading the way. Not that hard to understand.
 
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SenseMaker_Cats

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AJG-15 said:
UConn freshman says hello.


takes a talented freshman to take down other talented freshmanteam that could win the Title.

all the champs in the last 15 years had super talented freshmen.

you need both experience and super talented freshmen to win a championship.

experience can run the coach’ system but talent takes over the game when other coaches block the system.

super talented players are typically freshman other emise they are already in nba .
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Mullins was 5-24 on 3s in the games leading up to the final four. 0-4 before hitting the big shot. UCONN made it to the final four because of their juniors and seniors.
 
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FLBBNFAN

FLBBNFAN

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TALtruthatlast said:
I think there’s a difference between having freshmen as your key go to guys versus having freshmen as key role players. No one said freshmen are invalids and one hitting a shot to win a game is hardly a stunner or disproves the argument that relying overly on OAD’s is a bad idea.
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I’m The Village Idiot said:
You must not know my post history.

One of my biggest criticisms of Pope is that he prioritized raw talent over fit in year two.

We also saw Kelvin Sampson finally drop big time in quality when he started building around more freshman.

Freshman as supplementary pieces (a la Karaban in 2023 or McKinney in 2026) are fine, but when you have to depend on them to lead you through a one and done tournament, it has not proven to work in this era.
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Dude just say you like Pope and are good with him running our program versus the mental gymnastics in trying to defend his performance here on the court and off.

I would take Houstons season over our season or Dukes or even Arkansas. I dont care if we are defensive minded like Houston or more up tempo like Arizona. Don't care on the system as long as we win . I'll take scoreboard over a spreadsheet.
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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Genuinely asking this:

Is every discussion to you only about whether or not you like Pope?
Is every posited question a treatise on whether Pope is good or bad?

We are talking about CBB as a whole. Not Pope.

@FLBBNFAN
 
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SenseMaker_Cats

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Hello to the fourth leading scorer.

P.S. no one thinks you can’t have a freshman as your fourth or fifth leading scorer.

To be the “most knowledgeable fanbase in CBB” we sure do have a lot of people that struggle to understand a basic point:

THE POINT: Overreliance on OAD freshman is a net negative if you want to cut down the nets. The teams that are winning all the titles have experienced stars leading the way. Not that hard to understand.
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I think the issue is when you say over reliance, they hear, “I don’t want any great freshman at all”. There’s no nuance to their thinking.
 
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I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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SenseMaker_Cats said:
I think the issue is when you say over reliance, they hear, “I don’t want any great freshman at all”. There’s no nuance to their thinking.
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You’d think me constantly posting “I don’t think freshman are the devil” and “I agree you need talent” would make it pretty clear. My goodness lol
 
UKJenning

UKJenning

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Freshman lead teams can still get you to the Final Four and win conference championships.

The **** Pope puts together can’t get you to the FF of the SEC tournament and can get you a 9th place conference finish.

Probably more his coaching or lack there of than anything really.
 
FLBBNFAN

FLBBNFAN

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Genuinely asking this:

Is every discussion to you only about whether or not you like Pope?
Is every posited question a treatise on whether Pope is good or bad?

We are talking about CBB as a whole. Not Pope.

@FLBBNFAN
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Sorry your squirming to defend our coach. I comment on other threads without Pope all the time.There are plenty of threads on other subjects. Are you the designated hall monitor here?

Yes we are talking CBB but this is a UK board so it's pretty logical we would be discussing our past season, recruiting , performance and now portal season. Given the performance over the past year most of the threads wont be lollipops and sugar plums.

Genuinely let me ask you this. Everytime you get push back on here why is your first instinct to pick up your ball and quit or lecture everyone on how to respond on this board?
 
I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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FLBBNFAN said:
Sorry your squirming to defend our coach. I comment on other threads without Pope all the time.There are plenty of threads on other subjects. Are you the designated hall monitor here?

Yes we are talking CBB but this is a UK board so it's pretty logical we would be discussing our past season, recruiting , performance and now portal season. Given the performance over the past year most of the threads wont be lollipops and sugar plums.

Genuinely let me ask you this. Everytime you get push back on here why is your first instinct to pick up your ball and quit or lecture everyone on how to respond on this board?
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Because most people don’t stay on topic. Simple as that. If I’m debating someone and they run off to Bulverism or moving goalposts, I will call it out. And that’s what you did. Don’t take that personally. If I don’t call attention to basic rules of engagement, there really isn’t a debate to begin with. I’m trying to make sure you and I have a level playing field to debate the actual points. If the moderators would moderate this stuff, I wouldn’t be policing anything.
 
FLBBNFAN

FLBBNFAN

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I’m The Village Idiot said:
Because most people don’t stay on topic. Simple as that. If I’m debating someone and they run off to Bulverism or moving goalposts, I will call it out. And that’s what you did. Don’t take that personally. If I don’t call attention to basic rules of engagement, there really isn’t a debate to begin with. I’m trying to make sure you and I have a level playing field to debate the actual points. If the moderators would moderate this stuff, I wouldn’t be policing anything.
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Buddy you really over estimate your skills and you didn't call me out on anything so sorry to pop your bubble . There was nothing to moderate. I answered your question and you didn't answer mine. That's ok you and your hubris can think your levitating above everyone else on the intelligence chart.

Life will s*ck for all the excuse makers on here come next spring and analytics wont save you. Look forward to talking then .
 
I’m The Village Idiot

I’m The Village Idiot

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FLBBNFAN said:
Buddy you really over estimate your skills and you didn't call me out on anything so sorry to pop your bubble . There was nothing to moderate. I answered your question and you didn't answer mine. That's ok you and your hubris can think your levitating above everyone else on the intelligence chart.

Life will s*ck for all the excuse makers on here come next spring and analytics wont save you. Look forward to talking then .
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I think it’s pretty clear something became personal to you, so I’ll just cut it right here. Get you next time.
 
JwUKFan11

JwUKFan11

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Who cares? It's not like the guy in charge is picking between elite freshmen and elite transfers. He has not shown the ability to get either.
 
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SenseMaker_Cats

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FLBBNFAN said:
Buddy you really over estimate your skills and you didn't call me out on anything so sorry to pop your bubble . There was nothing to moderate. I answered your question and you didn't answer mine. That's ok you and your hubris can think your levitating above everyone else on the intelligence chart.

Life will s*ck for all the excuse makers on here come next spring and analytics wont save you. Look forward to talking then .
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“Is every discussion to you only about whether or not you like Pope?”

You could have just answered yes to this and saved a lot of time.
 
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FLBBNFAN

FLBBNFAN

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SenseMaker_Cats said:
“Is every discussion to you only about whether or not you like Pope?”

You could have just answered yes to this and saved a lot of time.
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Sorry sport but nice try. We will see over the next couple of weeks of where we are headed. I never root against the cats just like I don't root against my country so would love to be proved wrong.
 
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