Seventh Woods transferring from UNCheat

[ballerstu2u]

John Wall, Anthony Davis and a host of others could have went to Lackawanna College and went pro. They were generational college talents. I am a lurker, but Kentucky has had a host of 5 stars who have never been heard of again. James Young, Marcus Lee and the other 5 star big man that year. Nick Richards currently comes to mind.

 

[ballerstu2u]

Orton, Poythress, Wiltjer, Young, D. Johnson, Lee, Labissiere, Briscoe, Gabriel, Killeya Jones, all come to mind as being highly regarded Kentucky players who fit the underdeveloped/held back mold.

 

[GonzoCat90]

. I am a lurker, but

Should have stopped here.

 

[TomTraubertsBlues]

Most 5 star players do not make it in the NBA, and because UK has had more 5 stars than anyone under Cal (I think), of course we are going to have a number that fit that criterion.

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

Shouldn't his name be Seventh Irons?

 

[stoneycat_20]

Id bet Frank Martin gets him this time

 

[ballerstu2u]

Should have stopped here.

Such an informed rebuttal! But, my opinion still applies. Cal has players, as coaches do at all levels, who did not develop. Just applying the same logic used earlier against the UNC coach.

All things considered, for the amount of talent Duke and Kentucky have gotten in the last 10 years, two titles to show for it is astounding.

 

[dckala2_rivals16641]

This made me look at where’s James young is. Last I saw was he was waived by the Wisconsin heard in January.

He made 1.75 million in 2015, wonder how much of that is left.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

If he want to make fun of Roy, we don't even have to look further than last year's roster for a kid he ruined. Nas Little was supposed to challenge Barrett for the top overall pick in the draft.

That went well.

Yeah Little looked to have been a freshman POY candidate after the all star season.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I'm a visiting Carolina fan. I wouldn't characterize my rebuttal as "heat". I just disagree with the notion that Roy "holds guys back". Or maybe it's the rationale from opposing fans that I disagree with. Sure, freshman don't normally show out in our system. But rival fans make it out to be some nefarious scheme that Roy has put together to sabotage a kids' dreams. That's absurd. If we agree to the term "holding a player back", it's only done in the best interest of the team's goals.



No. He isn't. They have compliance officers and assistant coaches for that. I think.

I think it has more to do with Roys system than anything else. They need to be well conditioned to run so much and experience helps on the secondary break they run im sure. He does tend to have less than stellar results with stud recruits but he wins so who cares.

 

[Terror Beard]

Yeah Little looked to have been a freshman POY candidate after the all star season.

The first mistake was people forming expectations based off of games that don't mean anything. Sure, Nas looked good in those two games and jumped in the rankings because of that. But people who followed his game through high school never thought he was a top 5 pick after one year in college.

But for argument's sake, let's say I agree that Roy "ruined" Nas. why wouldn't Nas' parents be more bitter with Roy. All season long Harold Little (Nas' dad) sang Roy's praises and is still tweeting complimentary stuff about Roy and the Heels program.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

John Wall, Anthony Davis and a host of others could have went to Lackawanna College and went pro. They were generational college talents. I am a lurker, but Kentucky has had a host of 5 stars who have never been heard of again. James Young, Marcus Lee and the other 5 star big man that year. Nick Richards currently comes to mind.

K.

You should go back to lurking

 

[Terror Beard]

I think it has more to do with Roys system than anything else. They need to be well conditioned to run so much and experience helps on the secondary break they run im sure. He does tend to have less than stellar results with stud recruits but he wins so who cares.

Great post. I share your sentiments.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

The first mistake was people forming expectations based off of games that don't mean anything. Sure, Nas looked good in those two games and jumped in the rankings because of that. But people who followed his game through high school never thought he was a top 5 pick after one year in college.

But for argument's sake, let's say I agree that Roy "ruined" Nas. why wouldn't Nas' parents be more bitter with Roy. All season long Harold Little (Nas' dad) sang Roy's praises and is still tweeting complimentary stuff about Roy and the Heels program.

I don’t think he ruined him but I expected him to play more like he did early in them tournament. He played very well a few games.

 

[saxonburgcat]

There was once a time I believed he was the next John Wall. He still has the best mixtape of any 14 year old freshman ever imo. He's proof that you can't just base things off mixtapes.

I might be crazy but I saw James Blackmon play in HS and he reminded me of JB.

 

[Montana81]

Such an informed rebuttal! But, my opinion still applies. Cal has players, as coaches do at all levels, who did not develop. Just applying the same logic used earlier against the UNC coach.

All things considered, for the amount of talent Duke and Kentucky have gotten in the last 10 years, two titles to show for it is astounding.

It’s only astounding to the unintelligent.

For those of us that have actually paid attention to college basketball for more than 10 seasons, it’s not the least bit surprising that turning over most of your roster every year in favor of stacking a team with talented 18 year olds was likely to yield mixed results.

When Cal took over UK 10 years ago the narrative was there’s no way you can when a title relying that heavily on freshman. We went into the season with cousins, Wall and Bledsoe at preseason #5 and rival fans screamed “overrated” and even “NIT”.

 

[ballerstu2u]

That 2010 Kentucky had Liggins, Patterson, Harris, Stevenson, Dodson and Miller. That team had upperclassmen and added 5 star freshman.

Been paying attention a lot longer than ten years. And, again, 1 or 2 class each of the past ten years and only two titles is not good. I’d say K and Cal hold players back as much as any other coach. The transfer pg this year comes to mind.

For as much as some of you jump on Roy and his system, I’d say that Cal and his system has yielded less results, with more talent. I’m a college basketball fan and a realist. Same with K. Duke underachieves yearly

 

[Aike]

That 2010 Kentucky had Liggins, Patterson, Harris, Stevenson, Dodson and Miller. That team had upperclassmen and added 5 star freshman.

Been paying attention a lot longer than ten years. And, again, 1 or 2 class each of the past ten years and only two titles is not good. I’d say K and Cal hold players back as much as any other coach. The transfer pg this year comes to mind.

For as much as some of you jump on Roy and his system, I’d say that Cal and his system has yielded less results, with more talent. I’m a college basketball fan and a realist. Same with K. Duke underachieves yearly

I think Roy’s a great coach and I don’t really care if his players leave or stay.

But comparing apples to apples, since Cal has been at Kentucky Roy has 24 tourney wins. Cal has 31.

4 Final Fours for Cal, 2 for Roy. Each with a runnner-up and a championship.

So if that’s doing less with more, I’d had to see what happens if Cal ever has success.

And the recruiting class angle is overplayed. All that matters is overall roster, and Roy’s have been as good as anybody’s for a long time.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Roy cant develop talent...not like this is a mystery.

There was a study a few years ago of top 25 recruits/mcd AA's or somewhere in that range. Most all of them were pro- whether in the NBA or overseas after their 2nd year. Unc was the only school that had multiple 5 stars/mcd AA's as upperclassmen still in college. If they arent getting better- nothing below is either

Imagine if UK had only a couple 5 stars- not even the Davis, wall, etc types stay 3 or 4 years off a couple back to back classes with some of the 4 stars like herro and SGA.

Dont tell me Cal just rolls the ball out when Roy has to have them for multiple years..what's cal supposed to do- not coach his kids as well and get them playing at a higher level as quick. Harrison barnes would have been a maniac at UK...instead Roy had him spot shooting 3's.

 

[Montana81]

That 2010 Kentucky had Liggins, Patterson, Harris, Stevenson, Dodson and Miller. That team had upperclassmen and added 5 star freshman.

Been paying attention a lot longer than ten years. And, again, 1 or 2 class each of the past ten years and only two titles is not good. I’d say K and Cal hold players back as much as any other coach. The transfer pg this year comes to mind.

For as much as some of you jump on Roy and his system, I’d say that Cal and his system has yielded less results, with more talent. I’m a college basketball fan and a realist. Same with K. Duke underachieves yearly

The 2010 team started 3 freshman and a 4th was one of the first off the bench. Freshman accounted for over 50% of the minutes played 60% of the production(points rebounds assists).

It was a freshman dominated squad.

I feel we’ve underachieved over the last 4 years. Some of its been bad luck. Some of its been stuff beyond Cal’s control(our rivals literally buying players). But for 10 million a year he should be expected to adapt.

But during his tenure here: 1st in wins. 1st in tourney wins. 1st in final fours. The only black eye is going 1 for 4 in the final four. He’s been the best coach in the country over the past decade though and it’s not particularly close.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

whatever happened to the 8th grader Billy Clyde was after. Did he have a mixtape?

 

[ballerstu2u]

Roy can’t develop talent? Woods picquet in middle school, and then everyone caught up and passed him. I’d say that given where Paige, B. Johnson, Meeks and Luke Maye entered, they developed tremendously. I’d say that Wright, Bennett, Izzo and Roy develop talent yearly. The knock on Washington not going to unc was that he couldn’t be a one and done there. He stayed at UK two years. Had he went to UNC, would you all have blamed Roy?

All things considered, what does it matter if upperclassmen are still in college? Why is staying in college bad thing? Most championship teams have experience. I’m asking in seriousness. There are numerous UK players who should have stayed multiple years. Ullis, Briscoe, Harrison twins, Young, etc. should’ve graduated.

K magically landing the top tier of the top has hindered Cal big time. Development will be key to the success of UK. Herro and others should have returned. Cheapens the game when 140+ semi decent players go pro early

 

[UK90]

What's your all UNC NBA team? My Kentucky team is Anthony Davis, Karl Towns, John Wall, Devin Booker, and DeMarcus Cousins. That sort of thing doesn't happen everywhere.

Oh, gimme a break. Anthony Davis and John Wall were not only the number one rated players in their classes, they were considered the best talents to come along in several years at the time. And the only reason Demarcus Cousins was ranked No. 2 is because he happened to be in the same class as John Wall. Those guys were not great because of anything special that Cal did, instead they were great just plain because they were great talents.

And Devin Booker's evolution into an NBA star sure as hell had nothing to do with how Cal supposedly featured him in college. Hell, Booker never started a single game in college. NOT ONE. And he only got around 20 mpg in college and barely averaged double digits. His evolution into a great player occurred AFTER UK, not during.

Roy Williams has landed a good number of 5 stars, but he's not landed the transcendent talents like Anthony Davis, John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. And that alone explains why Cal has a better "All NBA" team than him. Nothing else.

I'm sorry, but folks who delude themselves into believing these guys are NBA stars because of some magical "development" ability of Cal make me laugh. You do realize these kids are only in the UK program for a few months from late October through March, right?

Hate to break it to you, but guys like AD and Wall would still have been awesome and the top ranked draft choice wherever they went. It was not a few months at UK that made them into that.

 

[Big John Stud]

Oh, gimme a break. Anthony Davis and John Wall were not only the number one rated players in their classes, they were considered the best talents to come along in several years at the time. And the only reason Demarcus Cousins was ranked No. 2 is because he happened to be in the same class as John Wall. Those guys were not great because of anything special that Cal did, instead they were great just plain because they were great talents.

And Devin Booker's evolution into an NBA star sure as hell had nothing to do with how Cal supposedly "featured" him in college. Hell, Booker never started a single game in college. NOT ONE. And he only got around 20 mpg in college and barely averaged double digits. His evolution into what he is now occurred AFTER UK, not during.

Roy Williams has landed a good number of 5 stars, but he's not landed the transcendent talents like Anthony Davis, John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. And that alone explains why Cal has a better "All NBA" team than him. Nothing else.

I'm sorry, but folks who delude themselves into believing these guys are NBA stars because of some magical "development" ability of Cal make me laugh. You do realize these kids are only in the UK program for a few months from late October through March, right?

Hate to break it to you, but guys like AD and Wall would still have been awesome and the top ranked draft choice wherever they went. It was not UK that made them awesome.

Harrison Barnes was the #1 overall player too and considered to be a generational talent. Why wasn't he the top ranked draft choice after going to UNC?

When it's a UK recruit, all Cal has to do is roll the ball out, why didn't Roy just roll the ball out with Harrison Barnes?

 

[CatfanMike47]

Oh, gimme a break. Anthony Davis and John Wall were not only the number one rated players in their classes, they were considered the best talents to come along in several years at the time. And the only reason Demarcus Cousins was ranked No. 2 is because he happened to be in the same class as John Wall. Those guys were not great because of anything special that Cal did, instead they were great just plain because they were great talents.

And Devin Booker's evolution into an NBA star sure as hell had nothing to do with how Cal supposedly "featured" him in college. Hell, Booker never started a single game in college. NOT ONE. And he only got around 20 mpg in college and barely averaged double digits. His evolution into what he is now occurred AFTER UK, not during.

Roy Williams has landed a good number of 5 stars, but he's not landed the transcendent talents like Anthony Davis, John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. And that alone explains why Cal has a better "All NBA" team than him. Nothing else.

I'm sorry, but folks who delude themselves into believing these guys are NBA stars because of some magical "development" ability of Cal make me laugh. You do realize these kids are only in the UK program for a few months from late October through March, right?

Hate to break it to you, but guys like AD and Wall would still have been awesome and the top ranked draft choice wherever they went. It was not UK that made them awesome.

Oh give me a break! Cal definitely helped them! DeMarcus only wanted to shoot threes coming out of high school! Anthony Davis was thought of more of finesse type big with guard skills!

 

[Montana81]

Cousins was projected as a late first rounder by the end of his senior year of high school. He had a reputation to play on the perimeter too much as mentioned above. And people weren’t sure if his attitude was going to be coachable. After a few games at UK he was bumped up to the lottery. And by the end of the season he was top 5.


Also 247 composite had/has Derrick favors as the #1 prospect in 2009 ahead of Wall and cousins. So clearly Wall was not seen as the best prospect in several years(it hadn’t been that long since oden and Durant and the Derrick Rose close was also loaded).

It WAS believed Wall would be the #1 pick. But it matters where these kids go. Most of them. But you can’t prove that and we’ve seen scenarios where the #1 pick changes. Barnes was a lock for #1 too. So was Okafor.

 

[Montana81]

This guy was probably one of the UNC fans that swore Anthony Davis was a poor mans John Henson and was too raw to have a major impact as a freshman :scream::joy:

Revisionism. Don’t you love it?

 

[Montana81]

Media/college basketball fans Fall 2009: “You can’t win with a freshman dominated roster. Kentucky is overrated at #5”

Spring 2010: “Cal really underachieved with all that talent”

Rival fans fall 2011: “Anthony Davis is raw. All potential. Little substance”

Spring 2012: “Ofcourse Cal can win it all with a generational talent. Anyone could have won with Anthony Davis!”

 

[Montana81]

If you're gonna base a post entirely around claimed quotes, then you should provide links to back it up.

Are those words actually said, or are they words merely fabricated because it suits your purpose in a message board post in 2019? Anyone can make up a fake quote, but that doesn't mean it's a real quote.

Obviously I’m paraphrasing to some degree. But go look it up yourself. Im sure our preseason rankings shouldn’t be too difficult. And a lot of Uk fans will probably remember as well.

 

[UK90]

Go look it up yourself

LOL.

In other words, NO, I can't back it up, because I made up those quotes and have no idea if what I've said is actually true or not...

 

[Montana81]

LOL.

In other words, NO, I can't back it up, because I made up those quotes up and have no idea if what I've said is actually true or not...

In other words I’m not wasting time on you because you’re not worth my time. Again, any number of Uk fans will be able to remember that. You should be able to as well but you’re not because you don’t want to because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

 

[UK90]

Obviously I’m paraphrasing to some degree. But go look it up yourself. Im sure our preseason rankings shouldn’t be too difficult. And a lot of Uk fans will probably remember as well.

LOL again at how you severely edited and re-wrote this post after seeing your first version get cut down.

I look forward to future revisions.

 

[Montana81]

I’ll say this in regards to Roy Williams. I don’t necessarily subscribe to the narrative that he doesn’t develop guys.

He does manage to keep guys that we don’t or wouldn’t. Jackson comes to mind. He was a first rounder after his freshman season. He would have left. But most of them get better. I thought Henson, Zeller, Meeks, berry, Bryce Johnson all got better and there are more. White improved over the course of this season.

With Little...it’s hard for me not to blame Little. He went to a program that had starting seniors at both positions he could have played. Seniors that were actually really good. If he wanted to go somewhere and start from day one and play 30 minutes a game that was not a wise choice.

 

[UK90]

With Little...it’s hard for me not to blame Little. He went to a program that had starting seniors at both positions he could have played. Seniors that were actually really good. If he wanted to go somewhere and start from day one and play 30 minutes a game that was not a wise choice.

I'm not sure why we seem so determined to cast it as an issue requiring "blame."

There's nothing inherently wrong with Little's choice. He, surprisingly, chose a school that had three returning quality starters at the 2, 3 and 4 spots (Cam Johnson, Luke Maye, Kenny Williams), which meant he'd likely be a 6th man. To me, that shows selflessness by the kid, he chose a team he KNEW would not feature him. He still won a shared ACC title, still was a key member of a No. 1 seed team, and still will be a first round NBA draft choice, so what exactly is the problem?

The way the UK fan base has tried to recast that as a horrible decision just seems sadly petty to me. If a UK recruit did that we'd be falling all over ourselves to praise his selflessness.

 

[Montana81]

I'm not sure why we seem so determined to cast it as an issue requiring "blame."

There's nothing inherently wrong with Little's choice. He, surprisingly, chose a school that had three returning quality starters at the 2, 3 and 4 spots (Cam Johnson, Luke Maye, Kenny Williams), which meant he'd likely be a 6th man. To me, that shows selflessness by the kid, he chose a team he KNEW would not feature him. He still won a shared ACC title, still was a key member of a No. 1 seed team, and still will be a first round NBA draft choice, so what exactly is the problem?

The way the UK fan base has tried to recast that as some sort of horrible college choice just seem pitifully petty to me.

It just depends on how he sees it. I haven’t seen anything from him complaining so yeah blame was probably the wrong word. His stock dropped some but recent projections still have him in the lottery.

 

[carolinacat]

An overrated, SC private school legend.

 

[CatfanMike47]

I’ll say this in regards to Roy Williams. I don’t necessarily subscribe to the narrative that he doesn’t develop guys.

He does manage to keep guys that we don’t or wouldn’t. Jackson comes to mind. He was a first rounder after his freshman season. He would have left. But most of them get better. I thought Henson, Zeller, Meeks, berry, Bryce Johnson all got better and there are more. White improved over the course of this season.

With Little...it’s hard for me not to blame Little. He went to a program that had starting seniors at both positions he could have played. Seniors that were actually really good. If he wanted to go somewhere and start from day one and play 30 minutes a game that was not a wise choice.

It was the only choice besides Duke! He was was mentioned in too many of the pay for play chatter!

 

[ballerstu2u]

I think the evaluations of some of the players is off by miles. Guys like Woods, Perry Jones, Barnes, Labissare, Anthony Bennett, Muhammad, Wiggins are often overhyped.

Today’s game, as in Woods case, shows that a lot of highly ranked kids don’t have the intangibles. Never understood how you can be a 5 star, but miss free throws, not understand spacing, and be unable to box out.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

If you're gonna base a post entirely around claimed quotes, then you should provide links to back it up.

Are those words actually said, or are they words merely fabricated because it suits your purpose in a message board post in 2019? Anyone can make up a fake quote, but that doesn't mean it's a real quote.

Just curious, but why does it seem like you’re so defensive of any and all things UNC?

 

[UK90]

Just curious, but why does it seem like you’re so defensive of any and all things UNC?

That's not what I am AT ALL. And, if you think that, then you must not have read any of my posts beyond this thread. I hate UNC more than any other program in the country, and I've stated that, and the reasons why, plenty times over the years.

But that doesn't mean I'll buy every single UNC bashing post regardless of whether it actually makes sense. I still have capacity for independent rational thought. And this happens to be one area where our UNC bashing really does not make much sense to intelligent people.