The Players Don't Get Anything

[rmattox]

All college athletes should be paid minimum wage for practice, training, game and travel time. This should be a nationwide rule. No school can pay more or less. Additionally, players should receive the same scholarship benefits any other student would receive. The school should likewise be responsible for medical and dietary needs.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Here is the thing....

You have people willing to spend money on NBA crap. I don't.

I could care less what they do after college. If they never play again after college that's fine I don't care.

You had greats in the past that never got paid anything like they do today. Its ridiculous really. The services that they provide for the money they get paid is the most lopsided thing I can think of.

 

[Big John Stud]

Unfortunately for lots of the reasons listed above it is very hard to determine how to pay the players and make it fair for everyone but at the same time it is hard to look at these kids generating billions of dollars for schools and the players getting a mere fraction of the money.


About the only way I can think of that would make sense is doing what Cal suggested a few years ago... separating from the NCAA altogether. Mid-majors in football offer very little resistance overall to the national landscape and in basketball it is great to see a Cinderella story but not very often are they actually going to win the title. The only way to make this possible in my opinion would be to have 4 super-conferences that consist of 16 teams each.


Take your 4 leagues in football and make each conference have two divisions. At the end of the season instead of having a championship for each league there would be an 8 team playoff.


So your SEC west winner and your SEC east winner would automatically make the playoff. Then you seed them 1-8 based on whatever rankings you decide and they start the playoff. The teams that are not in the top 8 could still have some type of post season bowl games and even for fun you could still match them up with the school’s left out of the super conferences.


In basketball it would be sort of the same thing, there are 64 teams so it would be easy to make a bracket out based on conference rankings also. Sec champ would play the 16th ranked team from the ACC or something like that.



Now on to the original point of how this would help the players get paid..... you would simply take the profits from each sport and divide it amongst the players, the school’s and the conferences. So 33% of the profit goes to players, 33% to schools and 33% to the conferences. Each player would receive equal pay and that still would bring up the point of Zion bringing in the money but the 13th scholarship player still gets a benefit, but it’s better than nothing I suppose.



It is key to mention that the student athletes would not get a share of the revenue, but of the profits. If they got the revenue then you would have to make them pay for things like their tuition, room and board, flights, food, etc. if they are paid based on the overall profit then you can deduct all of these costs from the overall number and then divide the money evenly.


There is no easy solution to a problem this big, especially when there is this much money involved. The NCAA profits a lot off of these kids and some how stays a “non-profit” and I don’t see any reason for them to change their system that continues to generate billions for themselves unless they think there is a realistic chance that schools would leave them in the future.


However even with this there would be a ton of issues on a national scale. It would basically turn smaller schools and smaller sports into division 2 level or NAIA level where most sports and schools are not fully funded so kids would have to get loans and play sports for the love of the game and go thousands of dollars in debt to attend college like most of America does these days.

The NCAA doesnt profit a lot off these kids, the NCAA pays to keep all the rest off the NCAA programs afloat off these kids. There are probably 1000 NCAA programs in division I II & III. The NCAA provides for all of them.

 

[Big John Stud]

All college athletes should be paid minimum wage for practice, training, game and travel time. This should be a nationwide rule. No school can pay more or less. Additionally, players should receive the same scholarship benefits any other student would receive. The school should likewise be responsible for medical and dietary needs.

If you added up their coast of attendance money, room and board money, per diems, money paid to "work" camps, money they get from the NCAA special fund, money from the NCAA clothing fund, gifts and swag bags from special events it would far exceed minimum wage. Also they stay eligible for Pell grant money because most of that isnt considered income.

 

[Jont0805]

The NCAA doesnt profit a lot off these kids, the NCAA pays to keep all the rest off the NCAA programs afloat off these kids. There are probably 1000 NCAA programs in division I II & III. The NCAA provides for all of them.

I agree they probably don’t actually profit much off of the kids but a lot of money is spent on things that they shouldn’t be, but it’s probably like that with most companies/non-profits. But I would say there are a lot of jobs, bonuses, etc. that employees receive that are a part of the NCAA that are extravagant or unnecessary. One I think they could save a lot by getting rid of the rules enforcement staffs as they don’t seem to be worth anything at all. Also Mark Emmert getting any salary at all is highway robbbert. I would love to see an actual breakdown of the costs/revenue of the NCAA but given that would take a long time to go through as big as the budget is.

 

[chroix]

These are not professional players so they have no monetary value.

Only because of the NCAAs rules right? A research program at a university can offer kids the same scholarship plus thousands of dollars in stipends. So it is possible to be both a professional and a student at the same time.

As to determining a value, whatever the market will bear is usually how the value is decided right? Maybe it’s by jersey sales, percentage of profit? I’d think allowing the kids to capitalize on their likeness and sell autographs would be a starting point and doesn’t actually cost the programs anything.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Only because of the NCAAs rules right? A research program at a university can offer kids the same scholarship plus thousands of dollars in stipends. So it is possible to be both a professional and a student at the same time.

As to determining a value, whatever the market will bear is usually how the value is decided right? Maybe it’s by jersey sales, percentage of profit? I’d think allowing the kids to capitalize on their likeness and sell autographs would be a starting point and doesn’t actually cost the programs anything.

There are no profits, or very little. The vast majority of schools lose money on basketball. Yes, it is a NCAA governed sport with NCAA rules, go figure. As for allowing them to sell their likeness, that is just a loophole that wealthy boosters can manipulate. College basketball would become the haves vs the have nots far more than is the case today.

It's a terrible idea.

 

[mjj_2K]

Here is the thing....

You have people willing to spend money on NBA crap. I don't.

I could care less what they do after college. If they never play again after college that's fine I don't care.

You had greats in the past that never got paid anything like they do today. Its ridiculous really. The services that they provide for the money they get paid is the most lopsided thing I can think of.

Bravo :clap:

Absolute best post yet along the lines of "I could give a f*** less if they die at 25 as long as they entertain me in college. And keep their yaps shut about being paid for it. And shut up about politics, or anything else. In fact, I don't think they should be allowed to speak, and they should practice 60 hours a week and spend the rest of their time lifting weights and going to class, and be locked in cages if not doing either of those things".

Great perspective you have.

 

[mjj_2K]

There are no profits, or very little. The vast majority of schools lose money on basketball. Yes, it is a NCAA governed sport with NCAA rules, go figure. As for allowing them to sell their likeness, that is just a loophole that wealthy boosters can manipulate. College basketball would become the haves vs the have nots far more than is the case today.

It's a terrible idea.

BULLSH**. Triple bullsh**.

Schools have absolutely 0 interest in declaring a profit. It is, after all, non-profit, "amateur" athletics. So they don't declare a profit, or show a loss. It means jack sh**.

Love to know how it's perfectly OK that the coaches of these non-profits have 7 figure salaries, sometimes near 8, and dozens of other people at any major athletic power make a handsome living with jobs created by athletics, but any attempt to shift some of that largesse towards the players is the end of the world as we know it.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

BULLSH**. Triple bullsh**.

Schools have absolutely 0 interest in declaring a profit. It is, after all, non-profit, "amateur" athletics. So they don't declare a profit, or show a loss. It means jack sh**.

Love to know how it's perfectly OK that the coaches of these non-profits have 7 figure salaries, sometimes near 8, and dozens of other people at any major athletic power make a handsome living with jobs created by athletics, but any attempt to shift some of that largesse towards the players is the end of the world as we know it.

It would be the end of basketball as we know it, whether you think its bs or not.

 

[mjj_2K]

It would be the end of basketball as we know it, whether you think its bs or not.

Maybe so.

Doesn't make the current system any more right.

The perspective on this is whacked, and everyone knows it. It's why the judge who sentenced Merl Code and TJ Gassnola gave them slaps on the wrist in comparison to what the prosecutors were asking for, openly questioning the idea that the universities could in any way be "victims" in the case.

Sometime early in this decade, Connecticut was having state budget problems, and some smart-*** journalist asked Jim Calhoun (the highest paid employee in the state) if he was willing to give back some salary. He got ticked, in a classic Calhoun red-*** way, and said "not a cent. We bring in 13 million dollars a year to the school".

And he was probably right to the extent that UConn basketball was, I'm sure, helping the school's bottom-line. But...Calhoun was personally receiving about 1/6th of that, and of course the players weren't being paid.

Do you really think a system like that is going to hold up forever? I don't. No one cares about Jim Calhoun, or John Calipari, or Mike Krzyewski, or any other coach, if they aren't coaching players who help them win championships. And those players have a huge, huge market value.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Maybe so.

Doesn't make the current system any more right.

The perspective on this is whacked, and everyone knows it. It's why the judge who sentenced Merl Code and TJ Gassnola gave them slaps on the wrist in comparison to what the prosecutors were asking for, openly questioning the idea that the universities could in any way be "victims" in the case.

Sometime early in this decade, Connecticut was having state budget problems, and some smart-*** journalist asked Jim Calhoun (the highest paid employee in the state) if he was willing to give back some salary. He got ticked, in a classic Calhoun red-*** way, and said "not a cent. We bring in 13 million dollars a year to the school".

And he was probably right to the extent that UConn basketball was, I'm sure, helping the school's bottom-line. But...Calhoun was personally receiving about 1/6th of that, and of course the players weren't being paid.

Do you really think a system like that is going to hold up forever? I don't. No one cares about Jim Calhoun, or John Calipari, or Mike Krzyewski, or any other coach, if they aren't coaching players who help them win championships. And those players have a huge, huge market value.

Precious few of those players have any market value at all. It will be better when they move straight to the pros and stop this nonsense. You can't just pay basketball and football players, Title IX won't allow it.

 

[Jim E Russell]

Didn't read entire thread, but Title IX will make paying athletes impossible.

 

[fabcat]

How much are they going to pay the back up catcher?, the kid that only plays special teams?, or the kid sitting on the end of the bench in basketball for 4 yrs?? Because when you start paying players in college you will have to pay them all in every sport. What should the salaries be?? Should Seniors get more than Freshman etc:: I’m not saying they don’t need to be paid, but the ones that think it is an easy fix don’t really understand the complexity of it. JMHO

 

[SuporChin]

Do you get to go to the gym and play ball every day?

I would if that were part of my job. I made deeds for people for 10 years while working from home. My dad asked me several times when I was going to get a "real job." Just because someone doesn't haven't a typical job, doesn't mean it's not a "real" job.

 

[mjj_2K]

Precious few of those players have any market value at all. It will be better when they move straight to the pros and stop this nonsense. You can't just pay basketball and football players, Title IX won't allow it.

The river of money that flows through the black market in recruiting renders your statement beyond absurd. They have no market value, but schools will pay in the six figures to procure the services of a 5 star recruit. Yeah, makes total sense.

EVERY major contributor at UK has a tremendously high market value, as do some who aren't even major contributors. That's why numerous schools staged a fierce competition to get them.

 

[mjj_2K]

How much are they going to pay the back up catcher?, the kid that only plays special teams?, or the kid sitting on the end of the bench in basketball for 4 yrs?? Because when you start paying players in college you will have to pay them all in every sport. What should the salaries be?? Should Seniors get more than Freshman etc:: I’m not saying they don’t need to be paid, but the ones that think it is an easy fix don’t really understand the complexity of it. JMHO

Why do you have to pay everyone? Where is that written?

Most college athletes are getting a decent deal, and, BTW, are far, far, far, far more likely to be what the NCAA loves to talk about- actual students who are also athletes. Duke isn't going to dip into too many "special admissions" to get some great tennis player, or swimmer, or golfer. They do it every single year in basketball. In fact, they do it for the vast majority of their basketball players.

Football and Basketball are the 2 sports that colleges CHOSE to professionalize, because those are the 2 sports that can actually generate revenue.

 

[fabcat]

Why do you have to pay everyone? Where is that written?

Most college athletes are getting a decent deal, and, BTW, are far, far, far, far more likely to be what the NCAA loves to talk about- actual students who are also athletes. Duke isn't going to dip into too many "special admissions" to get some great tennis player, or swimmer, or golfer. They do it every single year in basketball. In fact, they do it for the vast majority of their basketball players.

Football and Basketball are the 2 sports that colleges CHOSE to professionalize, because those are the 2 sports that can actually generate revenue.

It’s called Title X1 and it would come into play when you start paying college players. They will have to offer it to all the sports.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

The river of money that flows through the black market in recruiting renders your statement beyond absurd. They have no market value, but schools will pay in the six figures to procure the services of a 5 star recruit. Yeah, makes total sense.

EVERY major contributor at UK has a tremendously high market value, as do some who aren't even major contributors. That's why numerous schools staged a fierce competition to get them.

I think you're having trouble understanding the meaning of "precious few". All 5*'s and a couple dozen 4*'s is precious few. There are over 5000 kids on D1 rosters so I'm talking about 1%. Don't be snippy when you don't even understand what you're being snippy about.

 

[mjj_2K]

It’s called Title X1 and it would come into play when you start paying college players. They will have to offer it to all the sports.

Title IX applies only because the NCAA wants to continue the facade that athletes aren't employees and that college sports are just some non-professional, non-profit activity for the "students".

If colleges ever admitted that they were running professional football and basketball teams, I'm not so sure that "meeting Title IX requirements" would have any effect at all.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

If basketball players become employees of the University, Title IX would have a limited effect. Women coaches have sued under Title IX seeking equal compensation to their men's counterpart and have lost. One of the reasons the court took into account was amount of revenue brought in by that particular team.

The thing is that the colleges just do not want to pay the athletes and to just keep the revenue for themselves.

 

[mjj_2K]

I think you're having trouble understanding the meaning of "precious few". All 5*'s and a couple dozen 4*'s is precious few. There are over 5000 kids on D1 rosters so I'm talking about 1%. Don't be snippy when you don't even understand what you're being snippy about.

But we're not talking about 5000 kids.

There are 5000 kids in D1 basketball because there are an absurd amount of schools classified as D1 in basketball.

And that's not what we're really talking about. We're talking about schools that have serious resources and spend serious amounts of money to try to be competitive in D1 football and basketball. That's a WAAAY lower number, with vastly different economics. When you get down to that, it's more like 1000 players, and less than 100 schools, and probably at least 2/3rds of the players on their rosters were the subjects of recruitments where multiple schools were vying for their services

Compare this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/

With this:

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

But we're not talking about 5000 kids.

There are 5000 kids in D1 basketball because there are an absurd amount of schools classified as D1 in basketball.

And that's not what we're really talking about. We're talking about schools that have serious resources and spend serious amounts of money to try to be competitive in D1 football and basketball. That's a WAAAY lower number, with vastly different economics. When you get down to that, it's more like 1000 players, and less than 100 schools, and probably at least 2/3rds of the players on their rosters were the subjects of recruitments where multiple schools were vying for their services

Compare this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/

With this:

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

You'll need to clarify why we are only talking about 100 schools, which in itself means little. In a given year there are only 50, give or take, who have real market value. Just because they are recruited doesn't mean they have their own market value. Their market value at that point is the full cost of their scholarship.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

So, because a court decided something, it means that it's now fact and no one is allowed to challenge that belief?

In the United States of America it is. You socialists will have a fun day after all the hard work you have done to get everything you think is deserved changed. Then when the government owns everything and you no longer have a voice and find out it sucks you can join the rest of us who have seen it historically. Pick up one of those guns you hate and fight to get back the system that was perfect in the first place.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

But we're not talking about 5000 kids.

There are 5000 kids in D1 basketball because there are an absurd amount of schools classified as D1 in basketball.

And that's not what we're really talking about. We're talking about schools that have serious resources and spend serious amounts of money to try to be competitive in D1 football and basketball. That's a WAAAY lower number, with vastly different economics. When you get down to that, it's more like 1000 players, and less than 100 schools, and probably at least 2/3rds of the players on their rosters were the subjects of recruitments where multiple schools were vying for their services

Compare this:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193553/revenue-of-national-football-league-teams-in-2010/

With this:

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

In the end your talking about maybe 20 schools that generate real money, specifically in basketball. Then they also pay for all the other sports at their schools. After they pay for all travel, coaching, school, food, lodging, etc. for everything their school offers then they can find out what split their would be. Just like a business. The owners make profits before anyone because they pay for everything the business has to succeed.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

They get a cost of living stipend, an actual check every month. They get a per diem, they get $150 a day per diem for the NCAA tournament, they get $30 a day for incidentals. On top of having their education paid for, they get elite coaching, elite strength and conditioning, elite nutritionist planning their meals, use of elite facilities and training equipment, and great exposure and marketing to build their brand.

If they're not cool with that deal there are several leagues that will pay them, NBA G League, Big Baller League, and leagues in Europe and Asia. No one is tricking these kids, everyone is open and honest about what they get, if they're not OK with that choose another option.

The reason they are okay with it is because they will be paid soon. Their brand is built in the NCAA. If they didn’t participate, a less talented but still talented enough player would take their spot and the NCAA wold go on. The field would get watered down but more even and therefore the quality of play would still be okay. People would watch, people would still buy tickets because they love amateur athletics. People go to high school games where the talent is crap in tons of places. That’s a fact. It won’t change.

 

[mjj_2K]

In the end your talking about maybe 20 schools that generate real money, specifically in basketball. Then they also pay for all the other sports at their schools. After they pay for all travel, coaching, school, food, lodging, etc. for everything their school offers then they can find out what split their would be. Just like a business. The owners make profits before anyone because they pay for everything the business has to succeed.

So say you're right (which you aren't). Say I'm one of the 250 players at the 20 schools you mention. Am I supposed to be happy that my play is paying for a women's gymnastics scholarship?

Why, exactly?

So much classic owner-worship going on in this thread. Workers? IDIOTS. Screw them every possible way you can think of. F*** those morons, they get exactly what they deserve.

Owners? Bend thou knee. NOW.

 

[JesusCal91]

Look if the players all feel so hard done by the ncaa they’re more than welcome to take a different avenue or create an organization that would treat them more “fairly” I say have at it

In the meantime I think jay bilas should donate some of his bloated salary to these poor souls how about 100 dollars every time he says something stupid ?

 

[SuporChin]

In the United States of America it is. You socialists will have a fun day after all the hard work you have done to get everything you think is deserved changed. Then when the government owns everything and you no longer have a voice and find out it sucks you can join the rest of us who have seen it historically. Pick up one of those guns you hate and fight to get back the system that was perfect in the first place.

lol. Why make this political by calling me a socialist? You're better than that. Anyhow...
There have been several famous court cases that overturned an earlier decision. Brown v. Board of Education famously did that. There are a lot of people that want to overturn Roe v. Wade. Would it be socialist to overturn that decision? A court did already decide on that.
Here are some other famous court cases that overturned Supreme Court decisions. The perfect system that you mentioned is perfect because it allows for imperfect decisions to be corrected or changed.

 

[TFCat11]

Regardless of the “system” the NCAA chose to use, recruits, parents/ handlers, shoe companies, coaches/ alumni, et al, would find ways to cheat said “system”.

 

[mjj_2K]

Regardless of the “system” the NCAA chose to use, recruits, parents/ handlers, shoe companies, coaches/ alumni, et al, would find ways to cheat said “system”.

And ask yourself why?

Why would you cheat a system unless you felt like there was something significant to gain by doing so?

And that gain is based on what? Maybe (call me crazy) it's the actual value of the player's involved versus what those players actually receive?

 

[TFCat11]

And ask yourself why?

Why would you cheat a system if unless you felt like there was something significant to gain by doing so?

And that gain is based on what? Maybe (call me crazy) it's the actual value of the player's involved versus what those players actually receive?

There’s always more to be had, and it will be exploited, unfortunately.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

And ask yourself why?

Why would you cheat a system unless you felt like there was something significant to gain by doing so?

And that gain is based on what? Maybe (call me crazy) it's the actual value of the player's involved versus what those players actually receive?

If these players have such high market demand, I'd suggest they simply sit out, hire an agent, sign their endorsements and wait a year for the draft. They can spend that year preparing themselves to be ready for the NBA without having to worry about being used by schools. What a simple solution.

 

[mjj_2K]

If these players have such high market demand, I'd suggest they simply sit out, hire an agent, sign their endorsements and wait a year for the draft. They can spend that year preparing themselves to be ready for the NBA without having to worry about being used by schools. What a simple solution.

You'd probably also suggest that, if they can't have bread, they should just eat cake.

That idea didn't work so well in the 1790's, and hasn't really improved much with age.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

You'd probably also suggest that, if they can't have bread, they should just eat cake.

That idea didn't work so well in the 1790's, and hasn't really improved much with age.

That was non-responsive. Is there a problem with them doing that?

 

[mjj_2K]

That was non-responsive. Is there a problem with them doing that?

Other than a system rigged to screw them over and deny them opportunity while funneling the money to everyone except the people whose labor generates it?

No, no problem at all.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Other than a system rigged to screw them over and deny them opportunity while funneling the money to everyone except the people whose labor generates it?

No, no problem at all.

Non-responsive again. You used the term labor, they are not employees as had been determined by multiple federal courts. Now, let's get to the real truth of the matter.

Only a small group are good enough out of high school to go straight to the NBA. The others need something called coaching. Let's take PJ as an example. Out if high school I'm sure PJ thought he was a OAD. He was not, he wasn't ready, he needed Cal. Cal is a very valuable commodity. I wonder what the value of 1 on 1 time with Cal is worth? Well, I hope you have really deep pockets. All the while, PJ is slowly becoming a known player due to UK's high profile, opportunities and TV time. Huh, I wonder what that branding is worth. Again, I hope you have really deep pockets.

I could go on and on with the very real value these kids are realizing. Your entire thought process on this is wrong. These kids who play college ball and then go to the NBA already have a great compensation package, it is simply deferred while its building value. That is why these kids choose to go to school instead of the G league or sitting out or overseas.

It's a business decision that rewards them handsomely and the system that does this for them requires tons of revenue to function. That's just the way it is.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

My job gives me benefits that a lot of other workers don't get (tsp, money for school/ housing, healthcare , 2.5 days/ month vacation, etc)don't make it ok not to Pay me.

When I was16 I worked at McDonald's, they gave me free lunch, guess what they still gave me a freaking paycheck. Your rebuttal is stupid, Pay these kids.

Why are we talking about this? The NBA will now pay these kids to play, if they do choose. So will Europe or Asian leagues if they’re not happy with the NBAs paychecks.

If they find the college benefits so useless they can take their talents elsewhere. Just like you and I, if my work didn’t pay me how I wanted I can go elsewhere. They have the same options as anyone else.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

So say you're right (which you aren't). Say I'm one of the 250 players at the 20 schools you mention. Am I supposed to be happy that my play is paying for a women's gymnastics scholarship?

Why, exactly?

So much classic owner-worship going on in this thread. Workers? IDIOTS. Screw them every possible way you can think of. F*** those morons, they get exactly what they deserve.

Owners? Bend thou knee. NOW.

No I am right and the courts agree with me.

 

[thepip]

All that stuff you listed is chump change compared to getting 50% of:

Team Nike deal
The March madness deal (10.8 BILLION)
Ticket sales
Concessions
Sec network

I could go on for an hour...

You have definitely not learned much in life about finances if you think that college players will ever get a piece of some of the things you mentioned.